Vote No on 2

[Chip and Dale]

For the record and general amusement, God appears zero times in the US Constitution. When asked about it, Alexander Hamilton joked, "we forgot". Hamilton was all about the nitty gritty, forgot nothing and was probably one of the more traditionally religious of the founding fathers. The tyranny of 51% weighed heavy on their minds and much was done to create legal barriers dividing church and state.

A number of the founding fathers were deists. Browse the Jeffersonian Bible for fun someday.

 

[swampfox]

Your post is incredibly offensive and rude.

Thankfully not every Christian believes as you do, some actually follow the teachings of CHRIST!

Offensive and rude? How so? The teachings of Christ? Were did Christ say two men or to women could unite in marriage. I remember in Mathew Christ spoke about marrige concerning it being between a man and a woman. I want eveyone to understand my closest brother out of three, the one that I hold nearest and dearest to my heart struggles with hososexuality. He is an awsome man, yet he was in agreeance that a marriage is between a man and a woman, and that civil union is an appropiate term for gay marriage. I teach my son Love and Respect 1st Cor chapter13. If you found my post offensive and rude Im sorry but I dont care what most christians in YOUR opinion feel. I care what GOD feels, after all he is the one that you and I will answer to.Who do you answer to most christians or GOD? I am not against homosexuals I stand against sin. Isnt that one of the responsibilities as a christian, to love oneanother and stand up against that which is not of GOD!!!!! If I found truth to be offensive then I would search my heart and find out why. Oh yea a little side note....... the Pharasee's also found the teachings of Christ offensive and rude its all over the the new testiment, have a look and find out what the teachings of Christ really are. In saying that I am NOT compairing myself or my posts to Christ. I like evryone else, have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of GOD, which is why we need Christ.

 

[swampfox]

You could try teaching your children love and respect. I believe those are two core fundamentals to a marriage. You could also teach your children that marriage is set aside for two people who love each other and wish to spend the rest of their lives together.

What would you do if one of your children grew up and came out?

I do teach my children love and respect but also teach them right and wrong - sorry And Marriage is for a Man and a Woman and I wont go against what is in the Bible.

 

[Chip and Dale]

Judge not and carry on... it's easier for all of us.

 

[Matt J]

Offensive and rude? How so? The teachings of Christ? Were did Christ say two men or to women could unite in marriage. I remember in Mathew Christ spoke about marrige concerning it being between a man and a woman. I want eveyone to understand my closest brother out of three, the one that I hold nearest and dearest to my heart struggles with hososexuality. He is an awsome man, yet he was in agreeance that a marriage is between a man and a woman, and that civil union is an appropiate term for gay marriage. I teach my son Love and Respect 1st Cor chapter13. If you found my post offensive and rude Im sorry but I dont care what most christians in YOUR opinion feel. I care what GOD feels, after all he is the one that you and I will answer to.Who do you answer to most christians or GOD? I am not against homosexuals I stand against sin. Isnt that one of the responsibilities as a christian, to love oneanother and stand up against that which is not of GOD!!!!! If I found truth to be offensive then I would search my heart and find out why. Oh yea a little side note....... the Pharasee's also found the teachings of Christ offensive and rude its all over the the new testiment, have a look and find out what the teachings of Christ really are. In saying that I am NOT compairing myself or my posts to Christ. I like evryone else, have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of GOD, which is why we need Christ.

Well it's nice that he was able to survive and not commit suicide like many people who struggle with their sexuality.

Secondly you state that you stand up against that which is not of God, guess what I was made just the same as you.

Perhaps all the preaching and ranting is just a subconcious way of dealing with something you have in common with your brother?

I do teach my children love and respect but also teach them right and wrong - sorry And Marriage is for a Man and a Woman and I wont go against what is in the Bible.

Whew so your children have never eaten shell fish, worn clothes of mixed fiber, and it must be a real pain in the grocery store finding grains that are specifically grown apart from others and not mixed?

 

[swampfox]

Well it's nice that he was able to survive and not commit suicide like many people who struggle with their sexuality.

Secondly you state that you stand up against that which is not of God, guess what I was made just the same as you.

Perhaps all the preaching and ranting is just a subconcious way of dealing with something you have in common with your brother?



Whew so your children have never eaten shell fish, worn clothes of mixed fiber, and it must be a real pain in the grocery store finding grains that are specifically grown apart from others and not mixed?

One of my brothers did commit suicide. Secondly your issues with sexuality are
yours to be worked out between you and GOD. I am not one to judge I have sin in my life that I struggle with, that is just as bad but I'm not tring to make justify my sin and make it acceptable. I pray about it and hold myself accountable. Why would I need a subconcious wasy to deal with my brother? I love him just the way he is. If I was to hate him or hold him in a lesser light of love him less due to his orientation I would be a hypocrit. Did'nt Jesus associate with tax collectors and prostitutes? He didnt with hold his love from them. My brother is who he is. My issue again is taking something sacred set aside by the LORD for one man and one woman (says this thoughout the BIBLE) and redefining it into sinful terms. It seems to me that when someone disagrees with you on this issue of admendment #2 you try to say that they have issues with the homosexuals and hate. Ive said it many times I have no issues with homosexuals that is between them and GOD. But to attack that which GOD has annointed and twist it into something that he does not support it is my responsibility as a Christian to stand against that.

Now to the eating clean and unclean food. Didnt you ever read where Jesus says to us not to question which foods are clean or unclean. If someone whishes to eat or not eat something in honor of GOD it is not our place to attack them. He also spoke on the issue of which day was to be considered the true sabbath day, and used the same.

additionally in MARK 7 : 18 "you are no more intelligent than the others," JESUS said to them " Nothing that goes into a person from the outside can really make him unclean, 19. because it does not go into his heart but into his stomach and then out of the body." (in saying this Jesus is declairing that all foods are fit to be eaten)

1cor chapt 7 has alot to say about Mariage

col 3 : 5 you ,Just be put to death, thenn earthly desires at work in you, such as sexual immorality, indecency, lust,evil passions and greed. Becuase of such things GODS anger will come upon those who do not obey him.

leviticus 18 :22 No man is to have sexual relations with another Man: GOD hates that. ( meaning that GOD hates that sin, he still loves you!)

If we change GODS law on Marriage then we will bring down GODS wrath upon us all. So take a word that is not GODLY for your sinful desires (civil union) and get the same rights as a married person, but do not take that which GOD has made sacred, and turn it into sin. In changing a word that has been sacred to Christians is violating the seperation of church and state and forcing us to reconize Marriage in an UNGODLY light. So use a term that is not sacred, That is all I can ask for.

It is not my place to hate you for the way you choose to live, but it is my place to stand up for my faith which is coming under attack. How dare you try to paint me as a hypocrit with out knowing what JESUS says about unclean food. But yes I am a sinner same as you the difference is Im willing to accept the things I have done as sin and asked for forgivness and try really hard not to sin, and thanks to the blood shed by Jesus I am redeemed.

 

[Matt J]

Okay, so you'd follow other scripture to the T then?

where men were required to take a dead brother's wife and produce heirs for him - Deut. 25:5-6; Gen. 38:8

How many wives do you have? and God-ordained polygamy (Exodus 21:10-11; 2 Sam. 12:7-8)

Is this the sort of literal interpretation you're looking for? women were forced to marry their rapists (Deut. 22:28-29).

As for yelling Sodom and Gomorrah, perhaps you should read the passage. God sent two angels to warn of the impending doom and they were threatened with gang rape by the towns folk. No where in Genesis does it state that God was destroying Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexuality. Of course I'm sure you can find a bible that states that, but I'm going with the original text.

Finally, can you give me any piece of scripture in which Jesus himself stated that being gay was wrong or that two members of the same sex could not be married?

 

[swampfox]

Wow you have some real issues

Okay, so you'd follow other scripture to the T then?

where men were required to take a dead brother's wife and produce heirs for him - Deut. 25:5-6; Gen. 38:8

How many wives do you have? and God-ordained polygamy (Exodus 21:10-11; 2 Sam. 12:7-8)

Is this the sort of literal interpretation you're looking for? women were forced to marry their rapists (Deut. 22:28-29).

As for yelling Sodom and Gomorrah, perhaps you should read the passage. God sent two angels to warn of the impending doom and they were threatened with gang rape by the towns folk. No where in Genesis does it state that God was destroying Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexuality. Of course I'm sure you can find a bible that states that, but I'm going with the original text.

Finally, can you give me any piece of scripture in which Jesus himself stated that being gay was wrong or that two members of the same sex could not be married?

Ok look I am not going to sit here and defend that which you know is wrong. All I can tell you is that before the coming of Jesus things were alot different. Jesuses blood was spilled to not just to redeem us from our sin but to right the wrong of Adam and Eve ( in case you forgot eve is the one that GOD made Eve for Adam.

Romans 7:6 "Now then we are free from the Law,because we died to that which once held us prisoners, No longer do we serve in the old way of a written law, but in the new way of the spriit)(after the death of Jesus the Lord set his spirit to the earth) it's a little short but by our death in the old ways was put up for sacrifice with Jesus.

Now Paul who is filled with the spirit and is writing under the new law in 1 COR 7 : 2 says But there is so much immorality, every man should have his own wife, and every Woman should have her own husband.

Ok in Mark 10:6 JESUS SAYS:
6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

Ok there it is JESUS said it!

IN OTHER WORDS VOTE YES ON ADMENDMENT 2

Onto SODOM and GOMORRAH:
And if you can sit here and tell me by changing that which is sacred and holy into a foul and UNGODLY deed that you are not dismissing GOD just like the townspeople of Sodom Gomorrah did when they were warned then you really are diluted. Am I not warning you now, what are you doing is turning away from GOD and embracing your evil ways.

Really the BIBLE is a perfect work. Its easy to question it, and right to do so if you are unclear of something. You questions however are in an effort to discredit me. Though be sure I am not the one you so attack. You are attacking GOD and his perfect work. Now do not try to justify GAY marrriage by bringing up old law ( the old testiment) Becuse it was also wrong in the old testiment as such previously stated and that has never changed in the new testiment, even in the MANY times Jesus has spoken on Marriage as a union between Man and Woman.


Now can you find ME scripture that defines marriage as anything other then between a Man and a Woman, Can you find me scripture any where Homosexuality is embraced in a positive GODLY light?

 

[Jdarg]

Now can you find ME scripture that defines marriage as anything other then between a Man and a Woman, Can you find me scripture any where Homosexuality is embraced in a positive GODLY light?

Can you please tell me why our government should even care about what the Bible says about marriage?

 

[John R]

swamp thanks for continuing to bump up the NO thread. I love it being at the top of the page. Now, where did that pesky yes thread go??

when trying to hold a conversation with a zealot, one should just walk away. their point is always correct.