Walton Co. School Board Meets about Blithe Spirit!!

The difference with songs and some movies, converted for TV, is that I believe permission has to be given from the artist/songwriter/movie directors, etc. Artists and their record labels know that their music won't get played on the air with potty mouth talk on the songs. Some artists will make a clean version of a song, while others like the bad-boy reputation and know that the dirty version will sell more copies. They don't want to be on the radio. With movies, like Smokey and the Bandit, which is highly edited for the tv version, features not only potty mouth but also racist remarks. You don't think the tv stations playing the movies are the ones doing the editing, do you? They are not.

I'm not sure what radio stations they are playing at school, but the only ones I can pick up around SoWal don't play potty mouth music, to the best of my knowledge.

For the play to be changed edited, I would think they would need permission from the writer. Maybe Seaside REP can comment on this. I'be been told that some of the plays which they perform do not even allow photos to be taken of the play due to copyrights.

I think the is a 'don't ask, don't tell' understanding in place, so the Rep may not weigh-in on this.

The difference with songs and some movies, converted for TV, is that I believe permission has to be given from the artist/songwriter/movie directors, etc. Artists and their record labels know that their music won't get played on the air with potty mouth talk on the songs. Some artists will make a clean version of a song, while others like the bad-boy reputation and know that the dirty version will sell more copies. They don't want to be on the radio. With movies, like Smokey and the Bandit, which is highly edited for the TV version, features not only potty mouth but also racist remarks. You don't think the TV stations playing the movies are the ones doing the editing, do you? They are not.

YES, they ARE! It has been the policy for some time for both radio AND TV (which generally runs on a 60 seconds delay loop on "LIVE" TV") to "bleep out any words they consider to be offensive regardless of the artists' desires. George Carlin does a famous skit about "The Seven Words You Can Never Say on TV". He SAID the words and they were "bleeped" by the TV. This facts are easy to verify.

I'm not sure what radio stations they are playing at school, but the only ones I can pick up around SoWal don't play potty mouth music, to the best of my knowledge.

I don't know if you have AM or FM but if you listen to popular FM radio stations located between Panama City and Pensacola [No names or station id's please] you will have NO trouble finding music that I personally find both offensive and lacking in any socially redeeming or artistic value. My daughters even know what the words are and they can't believe they are allowed to be played. JMHO!


For the play to be changed edited, I would think they would need permission from the writer. Maybe Seaside REP can comment on this. I've been told that some of the plays which they perform do not even allow photos to be taken of the play due to copyrights.

There was NO need to CHANGE anything. I am sure it would be easy for an actor(actress) to simply "forget" their line when that special offensive WORD came up! Happens all the time. It is generally referred to a a "blooper". As in "WHOOPS I forgot what to say!" I don't know of anyone who ever got sued for forgetting their lines.

As I said earlier, the words mean nothing to the people who don't already know what the words mean. How did your daughters come to know the meaning of the words? That is the real question.

I agree with your sister, IBD. I would also bet that there is copyright of the plays which don't allow it to be altered.

My personal opinion is that one's mind will absorb only that information which he or she already knows. Everything else is ignored.

I think the is a 'don't ask, don't tell' understanding in place, so the Rep may not weigh-in on this.

I mostly know about musicals; I believe that there are some differences in straight plays. Some of it has to do with public domain--you see Shakespeare cut up and edited and completely rewritten all the time, for instance.

Many schools, etc. will alter without permission, but you are supposed to get permission from whomever holds the rights to the show. There are many shows that my alma mater won't/can't do because the big publishers (Samuel French, Music Theatre International, etc.) won't allow any editing.

Where it's funny to me is that schools are allowed to cut up shows--remove songs which are too difficult and/or don't advance the plot, cut scenes that don't work, cut up songs and scenes so that they can be performed as one-act competition pieces, etc.

I've run out of etcs. I have to go do some stuff, etc.

NOW you see my point. The Drama department (especially!) as well as most of the other "arts" operate on a "donation from parents" or "event sale" or whatever. The football team and sports oddly do not have that same problem. And the administration I am sure never goes wanting for money!
I would be EXTREMELY embarrassed to be the Principal of a School where the Drama teacher had to PAY out of his own pocket for the needs of his class, whether it be "Blythe Spirit" or "Harvey"!
I would LOVE to see the school budget audited! I wonder who we would have to see to get that done.

Do it yourself. Go to the school and make a public records request for all the expenditures, banking statements, and things of that nature and see what it looks like.

I just found out this year that these schools get paid to play certain schools by the other schools. It seems to be a negotiation that schools use to get different teams to play them to generate greater gate receipts. I never realized that so much thought was put into these team schedules.

As I said earlier, the words mean nothing to the people who don't already know what the words mean. How did your daughters come to know the meaning of the words? That is the real question.

Was that a real question or are you being sarcastic? After all, I am sure you and most of the rest of us KNOW what they REALLY MEAN when they say "ho" and other MUCH worse derogatory remarks. She is almost 18 years old. She DOES talk to other students at SHWS. How many of them do you think DON'T know the "true meaning" of these words? It is all in the "context" they are used. These "Rap" stars are not the total idiots they ACT like. They have seen the light! It is all in HOW you say it NOT what you say! The corruption of today's youth is being done subliminally. My point is the she is intelligent enough to know right from wrong and WHICH words are WRONG! And I am very proud of her for that.
In my home I do not HAVE to use the V-chip or any kind of block on the TV, INTERNET or anything else. I am fortunate to have two wonderful kids who know in their hearts right from wrong WITHOUT outside guidance. And I TRUST them with that. Believe me, it is a wonderful feeling to know you can trust your children to always do the right thing.
I am not so sure I could have said the same thing about MYSELF when I was growing up.
Which has been my point all along. Protesting this play or ANY play, especially ones that are performed nationwide with NO PROBLEMS except right here is good old "River City" where "fool rhymes with school and that spells trouble!"
(most of you will know where that paraphrase came from)

...My point is the she is intelligent enough to know right from wrong and WHICH words are WRONG! And I am very proud of her for that.
In my home I do not HAVE to use the V-chip or any kind of block on the TV, INTERNET or anything else. I am fortunate to have two wonderful kids who know in their hearts right from wrong WITHOUT outside guidance. And I TRUST them with that. Believe me, it is a wonderful feeling to know you can trust your children to always do the right thing.

That is a very good post. You point out some important factors with which I agree. I didn't mean to really pick on you or your daughters. You did a good job of defending them, and I in no way was thinking about the word, Ho, when I wrote my post.

There was a time when I enjoyed listing to Ice-T perform. He wrote a very controversial song entitled, "cop-killer." I actually paid money to see him perform after that album was released with the song. They later removed it from the album after many threats of lawsuits to the record label. My thought is, "Cop Killer" is a song. I listened to it many times and never once had the thoughts of killing a cop. Many others can say the same. I even knew all of the lyrics at one time. I recognized it as nothing more than an angry song most likely created out of one's thoughts and or experiences. Did I turn out to be some gansta? Not at all.

I understand your point about the subliminal influences of music, but what I was intending to say in my post, is that if you don't already have the cop-killer instinct already in you when you listen to the song, you are not going to go out wanting to kill a cop. I understand parents' fears, but I find them to be mostly fears, and not something about which they should truly worry, even though worrying is a parents' job. I'm sure it is almost impossible for a caring parent like yourself not to worry.

You really bring out my point by indicating that your children know the difference between right and wrong. It is already in them. You have likely shown them that you care about their choices in life, and that they should, too, and you most likely lead by example. When your daughters hear a song (inappropriate as it may be) about "ho's and pimps," they are not going to become ho's and pimps, unless they already have it in themselves.

Carrying that to the plays, kids aren't going to go out and start to practice another religion after watching a play, unless they already had the want or desire within.

Do it yourself. Go to the school and make a public records request for all the expenditures, banking statements, and things of that nature and see what it looks like.

I just found out this year that these schools get paid to play certain schools by the other schools. It seems to be a negotiation that schools use to get different teams to play them to generate greater gate receipts. I never realized that so much thought was put into these team schedules.

Obviously, you have never worked for a government agency. I have see some of the return for FOI requests for other government branches. By the time I could get the answer to a simple question, I would be old and Grey. (as though I am not already )

The point is, the administration KNOWS and if they are not willing to simply SAY what they spent on what, then ipso facto THEY have something to hide. I don't know or care HOW much is mis-spent. It was enough to me to see two years of the Drama Department having to go begging for money and getting the kids (my daughter included) to sew and build the costumes for the actors because there was no money to even RENT them. What kind of "public" school is this? One where there is NO accountability, obviously. Better yet, the money that was taken in from the productions of the plays did not even go back into the Drama Department's budget!
The money that was taken in from "FAME" was used to pay "debt" from the yearbook for last year. THAT is why we have "No money" for play rights AND why a fine, upstanding and VERY caring teacher reached into his OWN pocket to try to come up with the money to to teach his class.

That is a very good post. You point out some important factors with which I agree. I didn't mean to really pick on you or your daughters. You did a good job of defending them, and I in no way was thinking about the word, Ho, when I wrote my post.

There was a time when I enjoyed listing to Ice-T perform. He wrote a very controversial song entitled, "cop-killer." I actually paid money to see him perform after that album was released with the song. They later removed it from the album after many threats of lawsuits to the record label. My thought is, "Cop Killer" is a song. I listened to it many times and never once had the thoughts of killing a cop. Many others can say the same. I even knew all of the lyrics at one time. I recognized it as nothing more than an angry song most likely created out of one's thoughts and or experiences. Did I turn out to be some gansta? Not at all.

I understand your point about the subliminal influences of music, but what I was intending to say in my post, is that if you don't already have the cop-killer instinct already in you when you listen to the song, you are not going to go out wanting to kill a cop. I understand parents' fears, but I find them to be mostly fears, and not something about which they should truly worry, even though worrying is a parents' job. I'm sure it is almost impossible for a caring parent like yourself not to worry.

You really bring out my point by indicating that your children know the difference between right and wrong. It is already in them. You have likely shown them that you care about their choices in life, and that they should, too, and you most likely lead by example. When your daughters hear a song (inappropriate as it may be) about "ho's and pimps," they are not going to become ho's and pimps, unless they already have it in themselves.

Carrying that to the plays, kids aren't going to go out and start to practice another religion after watching a play, unless they already had the want or desire within.

YOU ARE VERY !
you got my point and no offense was intended. This was a PLAY! and my 12 year old sees MUCH worse on the Cartoon Network DAILY! But she KNOWS it is a cartoon. Apparently we are surrounded by ADULTS (those who protested) who seem to have a SERIOUS problem telling "right from wrong" and "real from fantasy". I am more worried to know that there are so many of them. OR at least they know how to make it LOOK like there are!
These are the people who have nothing better to do than to tell YOU and I and everyone else how we should live our lives, what we should think, what we should say ...FOR OUR OWN GOOD!...
OR ELSE...... And you can point out the error in their ways to the end of time but it will NOT matter. To someone who is that fixated on a subject, there IS no alternative.

Obviously, you have never worked for a government agency. I have see some of the return for FOI requests for other government branches. By the time I could get the answer to a simple question, I would be old and Grey. (as though I am not already )

The point is, the administration KNOWS and if they are not willing to simply SAY what they spent on what, then ipso facto THEY have something to hide. I don't know or care HOW much is mis-spent. It was enough to me to see two years of the Drama Department having to go begging for money and getting the kids (my daughter included) to sew and build the costumes for the actors because there was no money to even RENT them. What kind of "public" school is this? One where there is NO accountability, obviously. Better yet, the money that was taken in from the productions of the plays did not even go back into the Drama Department's budget!
The money that was taken in from "FAME" was used to pay "debt" from the yearbook for last year. THAT is why we have "No money" for play rights AND why a fine, upstanding and VERY caring teacher reached into his OWN pocket to try to come up with the money to to teach his class.

Our theatre dept. and improv group use performances as fundraisers to supplement their program. I couldn't fathom the the school getting the $$!

.

I think the is a 'don't ask, don't tell' understanding in place, so the Rep may not weigh-in on this.

For the play to be changed edited, I would think they would need permission from the writer. Maybe Seaside REP can comment on this. I'be been told that some of the plays which they perform do not even allow photos to be taken of the play due to copyrights.

I don't recall ever being in a performance in high school or college that wasn't edited in some way, large or small - one college director removed or replaced ALL curse words from the script of a Neil Simon play, and this was not a religiously affiliated school. I'm sure they did not have written permission form the author or publisher.

You're right, Skunkape - it is more of a don't ask, don't tell practice. I would bet that if the publishing companies really enforced copyright laws on educational and amateur theatres, they would lose the majority of their royalty income while having to increase their labor costs significantly.

The Rep does not make a practice of editing scripts.

Obviously, you have never worked for a government agency. I have see some of the return for FOI requests for other government branches. By the time I could get the answer to a simple question, I would be old and Grey. (as though I am not already )

The point is, the administration KNOWS and if they are not willing to simply SAY what they spent on what, then ipso facto THEY have something to hide. I don't know or care HOW much is mis-spent. It was enough to me to see two years of the Drama Department having to go begging for money and getting the kids (my daughter included) to sew and build the costumes for the actors because there was no money to even RENT them. What kind of "public" school is this? One where there is NO accountability, obviously. Better yet, the money that was taken in from the productions of the plays did not even go back into the Drama Department's budget!
The money that was taken in from "FAME" was used to pay "debt" from the yearbook for last year. THAT is why we have "No money" for play rights AND why a fine, upstanding and VERY caring teacher reached into his OWN pocket to try to come up with the money to to teach his class.

Yes I have worked for a government agency. FOI requests are irrelevant in this situtation. FOI is Federal. You are making a request under the Florida Public Records law. It is very comprehensive. Responses are required. If not in a timely manner, a couple of phone calls will get you what you want and rather quickly. I run into this pretty regularly. But overall, Walton County is very responsive to requests for information. Google on Brechner Center and read their information. They even have a pretty good letter for requesting information.

In the last few years a school board member was actually arrested and jailed for refusing to provide public records she had in her possession. The regional DEP guy was fired and fined for requiring people to give identification when requesting public records.

Community activism does require an effort on the part of the community. Gathering the information with supporting facts is the only way you are going to stop this sort of thing. I can not imagine anyone currently sitting on the Walton County School Board condoning that activity.

Our theater dept. and inprov group use performances as fundraisers to supplement their program. I couldn't fathom the the school getting the $$!

.

Everyone in the class was pretty much told that was why they had no money for anything. This is why, AT BEST, they are only able to put on one or two plays a year. The Drama Department is also one of the lowest classes on the totem pole when it comes to getting funded. Almost every other class gets prior consideration.
Even so, these kids worked their butts off trying to put together the BEST they could with what they had and they did a GREAT job. I saw the plays last year (WITH the simulated drinking, smoking, and "carousing" INTACT) and it was not until a "certain situation" arose that THIS year that this "outside group" was called in to disrupt everything.

It is sad to think that in America there are still people who will say "Do it MY way or you won't do it at all." WORSE, that they can get away with it!

Yes I have worked for a government agency. FOI requests are irrelevant in this situtation. FOI is Federal. You are making a request under the Florida Public Records law. It is very comprehensive. Responses are required. If not in a timely manner, a couple of phone calls will get you what you want and rather quickly. I run into this pretty regularly. But overall, Walton County is very responsive to requests for information. Google on Brechner Center and read their information. They even have a pretty good letter for requesting information.

In the last few years a school board member was actually arrested and jailed for refusing to provide public records she had in her possession. The regional DEP guy was fired and fined for requiring people to give identification when requesting public records.

Community activism does require an effort on the part of the community. Gathering the information with supporting facts is the only way you are going to stop this sort of thing. I can not imagine anyone currently sitting on the Walton County School Board condoning that activity.

That you for your information. I will use it.
FOI, in my posts referred to Freedom of Information. The "F" was not meant to have a "federal" connotation.

But is it ENCOURAGING to say the least that people CAN and HAVE BEEN put in JAIL for misuses under the Florida Versions of this act.

Could you parents get together and create an email list of all caring parents, as a way to send out group emails regarding the school stuff? Seems to me like any decent school operators would have email addresses of all parents and maybe even make those accessible to the teachers, so that teachers could regularly communicate with parents regarding test scores, homework performance, and behavior.

I'm new to this SoWal website and actually made an account just for this particular post.

Of behalf of my being new to this site I haven't yet been able to read everyone's posts so excuse me if I to repeat anything.

I'm currently a sophomore at SoWal High and am part of the 'Drama Herd.'
I've decided to state my peace on this subject....


I see nothing wrong with the play Blithe Spirit. Yes there are ghost and seance, but it's not considerd 'withcraft' in my opinion. Witchcraft is when you buy one of those books with the crazy symbols on the cover and sit in a little circle with your friends in the dark with a load of candles speaking in tongues. That's witchcraft. Not seeing a few things in a play.

As for the 'corruption of us children', I agree with Kase (who happens to be one of my bffl's ;] ), we are high schoolers. Young adults. On the brink of being an individual who lives on their own and has to make their own decisions. Not children who can hardly tie their shoes without the assistance of their parents. We should know by now the difference between truth and fiction.

There are many other things that I could go on and on about on this subject but don't have time for tonight.

Hope everyone has a beautiful day tomorrow :]]

Could you parents get together and create an email list of all caring parents, as a way to send out group emails regarding the school stuff? Seems to me like any decent school operators would have email addresses of all parents and maybe even make those accessible to the teachers, so that teachers could regularly communicate with parents regarding test scores, homework performance, and behavior.

Yeah. It DOES seem like they would doesn't it? I wonder why they don't? Maybe because it would be more work for them. You can BET that if such a list EVER gets created it WILL be the work of the parents themselves. If you want to see some interesting opinions, go here:
http://www.greatschools.net/school/parentReviews.page?id=5277&state=FL

Odd that the school managed to get a 9 star rating from the site BUT the parents gave it a 2 out of 5. And ALL of the complaints are from POOR leadership and communication. Guess that says it all.

..... Witchcraft is when you buy one of those books with the crazy symbols on the cover and sit in a little circle with your friends in the dark with a load of candles speaking in tongues. That's witchcraft......
:]]

Hmmm. Places where you read books full of symbols and sit in circles and speak in tongues....... WHY does that sound so familiar?
I think your post was GREAT!! When I read it I IMMEDIATELY could see where that kind of activity probably goes on!

You are an intelligent person and I wish you the best in life along with all the other students who are having to suffer with this!

Thank you very much :]]

Could you parents get together and create an email list of all caring parents, as a way to send out group emails regarding the school stuff? Seems to me like any decent school operators would have email addresses of all parents and maybe even make those accessible to the teachers, so that teachers could regularly communicate with parents regarding test scores, homework performance, and behavior.

I think that there would probably be some privacy issues and possibly liability issues with giving out students and parents contact information. The church on the other hand had that information that their congregation had given them freely, thus that were at an advantage when the meeting was scheduled and the time for the cattle call came.

You are making a request under the Florida Public Records law. It is very comprehensive. Responses are required. If not in a timely manner, a couple of phone calls will get you what you want and rather quickly. I run into this pretty regularly. But overall, Walton County is very responsive to requests for information. Google on Brechner Center and read their information. They even have a pretty good letter for requesting information.

Government in the Sunshine is one reason I love our state.

That you for your information. I will use it.
FOI, in my posts referred to Freedom of Information. The "F" was not meant to have a "federal" connotation.

FOI refers to the Freedom of Information Act, which is indeed federal and a lot harder to negotiate than anything dealing with Florida state and local government. In this state, even emails related to public business are public record; copies can (or at least should) be easily obtained. The Sunshine laws promote discussion and transparency.

This is the first time I have read this thread -- wow. It's a doozy. It sounds as if the SWHS students have learned a valuable (if painful) lesson that they will no doubt carry with them their whole lives. What galls me most is the apparent inauthenticity of at least some of the protesters, who went to the meeting not knowing exactly what they were protesting, just showed up because they were told to in order to demonstrate 'strength in numbers.' What kind of strength would that be exactly?

Kudos to those with the passion and the knowledge to defend their point of view.

Could you parents get together and create an email list of all caring parents, as a way to send out group emails regarding the school stuff? Seems to me like any decent school operators would have email addresses of all parents and maybe even make those accessible to the teachers, so that teachers could regularly communicate with parents regarding test scores, homework performance, and behavior.

This is done by the administration at my son's private school; they have a very sophisticated network set up actually. A parent would just have to click the mouse a couple of times to let fellow parents know about anything important. However, as bdarg points out, in public schools it seems there would be privacy issues regarding distributing parent information. The school itself would not be required to let parents know of a special school board meeting (and I wonder if it would even be allowed to make a special announcement). I think any parent joining a parent group like the PTA would be to access contact information for others who had "opted in" to the PTA, but that would be about as far as it would go. It definitely would make it tougher to get the word out.

This is done by the administration at my son's private school; they have a very sophisticated network set up actually. A parent would just have to click the mouse a couple of times to let fellow parents know about anything important. However, as bdarg points out, in public schools it seems there would be privacy issues regarding distributing parent information. The school itself would not be required to let parents know of a special school board meeting (and I wonder if it would even be allowed to make a special announcement). I think any parent joining a parent group like the PTA would be to access contact information for others who had "opted in" to the PTA, but that would be about as far as it would go. It definitely would make it tougher to get the word out.

Thanks TFT. This is what I am running into. As with many things in life designed to protect us and our privacy, it also hobbles us to do good things.

I think the time has come on this thread to maybe sum up and move on to the next level- which is quit the talk and start fixing, and that is on our agenda this week. We know this was a raw deal all around, we know there are communication problems between parents, students, and administration, we know that there are outside groups that tried and will continue to try and influence our school, and we know that these kids and the teacher need to get back to the business of learning and teaching. Continuing to hash on about the same stuff will not be productive and it is hard to find really helpful posts and ideas if it is buried in rants.

Let's maybe keep posts from here on out about suggestions of how to fix our problems instead of accusations and barbs. Now that we have all vented, it is time to pull in the reins and be constructive, not destructive.;-)

This is done by the administration at my son's private school; they have a very sophisticated network set up actually. A parent would just have to click the mouse a couple of times to let fellow parents know about anything important. However, as bdarg points out, in public schools it seems there would be privacy issues regarding distributing parent information. The school itself would not be required to let parents know of a special school board meeting (and I wonder if it would even be allowed to make a special announcement). I think any parent joining a parent group like the PTA would be to access contact information for others who had "opted in" to the PTA, but that would be about as far as it would go. It definitely would make it tougher to get the word out.

I understand that there use to be an active PTO at SWHS. The person I spoke to that was involved no longer has a child in the system. It seems you have several students reading this list that could gather email addresses for you from other students of their parents. And you could also start trying to form the PTO again. You should be able to supply information to the school that they could send home with students asking for contact information.