Are permits still required for seawall construction???

Ugh! No telling what all is spillng in the bay. SJ, is that right down from our Mitchell Avenue house? This is awful! Who do I need to call, right now!

Update!

I called code enforcementat 850-622-0000 (put this number in your files) and was told I needed to call DEP.

Called DEP and the person that is head of this is Rod Danner at phone number 850-595-8300 X1206. He stated that they do in fact have the permits in place to be doing this. He stated that the turbidity (sp?) fence, what we have been calling silt fence, should contain any oil and other fuels. However, when I told him the thing was partially submerged and stuck he was a little more concerned. He is in Pensacola but going to get someone over there. This was the first he had heard of it being stuck in the water.

Y'all will love this, he wanted to know where I saw these pictures and I told him about SoWal.com and he is looking at them right now! Ummmm, I won't say what he said about the guy....but, he did say the company doing this is experienced. Wonder what happened.....maybe a new operator? Actually, he made me laugh out loud at what he said....we will just keep it between us.

He was very nice and very helpful. Y'all should have called me yesterday....I would have called then.

;-)




Now that I look at that photo again, either that guy is really deep down in the muck, or he dug one heck of a hole. That depth of water was never more than maybe one foot along that stretch where his left track is stuck. That track on the equipment is probably around 30" in height, and the top of the back end of that track must be two feet under water, at least.

He is either looking for his lunch box or trying to catch a gator!

Around 1pm today, they finally got it out of the water. They had two other track hoes on site, one was HUGE. They added dirt to the water, making a ramp all the way to the track hoe which was stuck. Using the big track hoe, they were able to pull it out, with what is sure to soon be a rusty engine.

Notice that you don't see "United Rentals" logo on the side of the other two track hoes. ;-) I wonder if anyone at United Rentals reads this site.

I did get video of them pulling out the track hoe, but it is uneventful.

He is either looking for his lunch box or trying to catch a gator!

Bobbing for crabs?

Hey Joe,

Why are you enjoying some poor working guy's dilemma, when all he is trying to do is build a seawall like YOU have? How do you think they built your wall, with non-fossil fuel burning equipment....get real!

Granted the equiipment used on your wall may not have gotten stuck, but with the loose sand & soil, it sure is a possibility.

Hey Joe,

Why are you enjoying some poor working guy's dilemma, when all he is trying to do is build a seawall like YOU have? How do you think they built your wall, with non-fossil fuel burning equipment....get real!

Granted the equiipment used on your wall may not have gotten stuck, but with the loose sand & soil, it sure is a possibility.

Because there is a right way and a wrong way to do something! You'll notice SJ isn't putting sugar in the dozer's gas tank, he's calling the PROPER authorities to deal w/ violations!

Because there is a right way and a wrong way to do something! You'll notice SJ isn't putting sugar in the dozer's gas tank, he's calling the PROPER authorities to deal w/ violations!

THAT POOR GUY IN THE WATER IS WALLERING TO SAVE HIS JOB, SJ was wallering in his misfortune. And he's doing it from his seawall, his dock, and doing it by tresspassing onto a construction site. IF YOU WANT TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, SPORT!

THAT POOR GUY IN THE WATER IS WALLERING TO SAVE HIS JOB, SJ was wallering in his misfortune. And he's doing it from his seawall, his dock, and doing it by tresspassing onto a construction site. IF YOU WANT TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, SPORT!

SJ posted these pics as "round 2" of this developer's inept attempts to clear the site. The first attempt was shut down, and as he noted, that stop work notice was run over by heavy equipment on this attempt. We're laughing more at the situation, than the operator - whom the thread noted is probably just trying to earn a living.

Hey Joe,

Why are you enjoying some poor working guy's dilemma, when all he is trying to do is build a seawall like YOU have? How do you think they built your wall, with non-fossil fuel burning equipment....get real!

Granted the equiipment used on your wall may not have gotten stuck, but with the loose sand & soil, it sure is a possibility.

:roll:You are making untrue assumptions. I own no property with a seawall.

Because there is a right way and a wrong way to do something! You'll notice SJ isn't putting sugar in the dozer's gas tank, he's calling the PROPER authorities to deal w/ violations!

"Possible" violations.

THAT POOR GUY IN THE WATER IS WALLERING TO SAVE HIS JOB, SJ was wallering in his misfortune. And he's doing it from his seawall, his dock, and doing it by tresspassing onto a construction site. IF YOU WANT TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, SPORT!

I am not "wallering in his misfortune." I am reporting observations of something which I think is wrong and harmful to the environment. I have not tresspassed onto this "construction site."

You should change your name, because a nature lover wouldn]t have your prospective.

SJ posted these pics as "round 2" of this developer's inept attempts to clear the site. The first attempt was shut down, and as he noted, that stop work notice was run over by heavy equipment on this attempt. We're laughing more at the situation, than the operator - whom the thread noted is probably just trying to earn a living.

Again, I'm not laughing at the situtaion. It makes me more sick than silly. I don't care whether the kid is trying to make a buck or a million bucks. Digging out the Bay requires permits, and while they may have a permit to erect a seawall on the property, I don't think it provides them with the ability to dig out a trench in the Bay. If an employer asked you to knowingly violate the law, would you do it? Even if he says that you are fired if you don't do it? Maybe this kid operating the equipment isn't even aware of the wrong doing, but I bet the developer or foreman in charge is very aware, especially after already being busted by Code Enforcement for violations.

No that is the operator's seat. The driver is in the water trying to get muck out of the tracks, or something like that. I'll blow it up for you. (not the track hoe, but the image). ;-)




Now that I look at that photo again, either that guy is really deep down in the muck, or he dug one heck of a hole. That depth of water was never more than maybe one foot along that stretch where his left track is stuck. That track on the equipment is probably around 30" in height, and the top of the back end of that track must be two feet under water, at least.

Actually, he looks kind of like Ro Cuchens. Someone should submit it to AFV! I have to comment that it seems like whenever you guys see something big and yellow, somekind of trigger goes off. Do you do that with school buses too?!!

AI have to comment that it seems like whenever you guys see something big and yellow, somekind of trigger goes off. Do you do that with school buses too?!!

Yes, when the lady, driving the school bus down my street, going in excess of 35mph on a narrow dirt road, a trigger goes off inside me, as I think about a dog running into the street, in the path of the school bus. Rumor has it in the neighborhood, that she has already ran over one dog.

BTW, florida girl, there is plenty of yellow equipment which does not set off a trigger within me. However, when I see a piece stuck in the water overnight, I begin to ask questions.

Again, I'm not laughing at the situtaion. It makes me more sick than silly. I don't care whether the kid is trying to make a buck or a million bucks. Digging out the Bay requires permits, and while they may have a permit to erect a seawall on the property, I don't think it provides them with the ability to dig out a trench in the Bay. If an employer asked you to knowingly violate the law, would you do it? Even if he says that you are fired if you don't do it? Maybe this kid operating the equipment isn't even aware of the wrong doing, but I bet the developer or foreman in charge is very aware, especially after already being busted by Code Enforcement for violations.

I think I was the first one to cry "pity" for the dude in the mud. Even so, as a private contractor I have to agree with you that there is personal responsibility and accountability.

We have a large lake here that is owned by the Corps of Engineers. I am constantly asked to do things by homeowners that involve Corps property. (The area between privately owned land and the edge of the water.) I agree if and only if I am allowed to speak to the Ranger in charge myself. Why is that? Because if I do something that aggravates the corps, there are consequences that include:

• a fine for the homeowner
• the loss of the homeowner's dock permit
• decreased property value resulting from the loss of the dock permit
• a minimum of $500 in fines to me as the contractor
• another $500 per employee I have working for me on the site

I'm sorry for the guy in the water because he may be (probably is) blindly trusting that his employer is doing the right thing. But I have put a lot of energy into following rules all my life and I expect others to do the same. We're all happy and comfortable that way...

Actually, he looks kind of like Ro Cuchens. Someone should submit it to AFV! I have to comment that it seems like whenever you guys see something big and yellow, somekind of trigger goes off. Do you do that with school buses too?!!

Ro Ho!!!!

Yes, when the lady, driving the school bus down my street, going in excess of 35mph on a narrow dirt road, a trigger goes off inside me, as I think about a dog running into the street, in the path of the school bus. Rumor has it in the neighborhood, that she has already ran over one dog.

BTW, florida girl, there is plenty of yellow equipment which does not set off a trigger within me. However, when I see a piece stuck in the water overnight, I begin to ask questions.

My first thought if I saw the back hoe stuck in the water was that it surely wasn't intended to be there. I haven't heard of anyone who likes doing that sort of thing, quite a predicament actually, to figure out how to get it out! If it is Ro, he's the boss, not the worker. Concerning the trigger just seems like there just isn't enough for folks to do, but to have their noses into someone else?s business! A Peyton Place, where everybody is into everyone?s life! I don?t have first hand knowledge about the school bus; I do know they have regulations regarding their behavior. However, I also know that if you drive too slow on a dirt road, you?ll get stuck. A school bus loaded with kids makes a heavy bus. In fact, if you get up on plane, the ride is much smoother! Experience taught me that. I think too much is gossip, not justified truth.

Frankly, I wish a lot more people would report environmental issues...andschool bus drivers who seem to always be driving too fast for conditions around here. They must take their driving lessons from the construction truck drivers!

If members of the community do not report possible violations, then really bad things happen and the result is not good for any of us! (Seawalls and four lane highways without traffic signals come to mind!)

It's really hard for me to believe that the person in charge of this situation doesn't know he/she is behaving in an inappropriate way!

If it were one or two individuals reporting that is one thing, but as I understand, it's over the top, about everything. Leaves the impression of a town full of busibodies. It's all in how you look at it, do you first suspect something is being done wrong, or is there any confidence in human nature at all? Is the cup half full or half empty? Example: Did we get our license from a gum ball machine? Do we not have sense enough to come in out of the rain? Or is it a police state, where everything is micromanaged, and there is no confidence in humans at all?

I love that people are concerned about what is going on and each others' lives! It can get a little intrusive, inbred, or gossipy sometimes, but it's a small price to pay for living in a small community and having people watch your back.

I especially like that there are "eyes on the street" to catch wrongdoers! Those that are doing nothing wrong have nothing to fear!

My first thought if I saw the back hoe stuck in the water was that it surely wasn't intended to be there. I haven't heard of anyone who likes doing that sort of thing, quite a predicament actually, to figure out how to get it out! If it is Ro, he's the boss, not the worker. Concerning the trigger just seems like there just isn't enough for folks to do, but to have their noses into someone else’s business! A Peyton Place, where everybody is into everyone’s life! I don’t have first hand knowledge about the school bus; I do know they have regulations regarding their behavior. However, I also know that if you drive too slow on a dirt road, you’ll get stuck. A school bus loaded with kids makes a heavy bus. In fact, if you get up on plane, the ride is much smoother! Experience taught me that. I think too much is gossip, not justified truth.

It isn't Ro. The guy is probably no older than 25.

I stick my nose in places where I need to stick it. It is called creating community. I could care less who the neighbor brings home to sleep with, or how much they've had to drink, or whether or not they are smoking pot, until it begins to affect more than that person. You can bet money that if I here a fight going on next door, or a break-in, or a fire, or a woman yelling rape, I am going to check it out.These things are not normal, nor is a track hoe digging in the Bay. ;-)


Not all dirt roads are equal. This particular school bus driver has no business going through my neighborhood at the speeds which she drives. That bus is not in danger of being stuck on my street.

I love that people are concerned about what is going on and each others' lives! It can get a little intrusive, inbred, or gossipy sometimes, but it's a small price to pay for living in a small community and having people watch your back.

I especially like that there are "eyes on the street" to catch wrongdoers! Those that are doing nothing wrong have nothing to fear!

I guess it depends on your definition of "wrongdoers", it seems most people here have a different opinion of that, considering the variety of cultures that have moved here. Most small towns have a similar culture to go along with it. I for one, think it's okay to hunt, fish, clean a fish while it's still alive, eat meat, live oysters... I for one, think it's okay to own guns! What a shock! What they do next door is their business, unless it affects me in some way. If I have no respect for my neighbor, no trust in their character, I wouldn't want to live there. You get what you give.

Florida Girl: I am certainly a glass half full person; but I am also a realist, and the track record around here for people doing things without the proper permits, especially when it comes to wetland areas, the beach, and now the bay...the track record is not that good.

And, it's pretty obvious that we can not depend on "the authorities" to do the right thing when it comes to road building, or we never would have had those dangerous intersections! Perhaps if those signals had been installed to begin with, as they should have, then just perhaps several people, including those two teenagers, would still be alive today! And, I know if citizens who cared had not raised hell about it, then we would still have dangerous intersections! It took people standing up for what is right to move the county commissioners to the right thing. And, it took many of the same citizens standing up to keep black dirt off the beach at Blue Mt!

So, observant people who care about their community, do the right thing when something appears inappropriate...that's not gossip or minding others business--it's taking care of our community, and it's everyone's business!

I for one appreciate it when others do it, and I intend to continue being an activist for things that are important to me like the environment and people's lives.....

It isn't Ro. The guy is probably no older than 25.

I stick my nose in places where I need to stick it. It is called creating community. I could care less who the neighbor brings home to sleep with, or how much they've had to drink, or whether or not they are smoking pot, until it begins to affect more than that person. You can bet money that if I here a fight going on next door, or a break-in, or a fire, or a woman yelling rape, I am going to check it out.These things are not normal, nor is a track hoe digging in the Bay. ;-)


Not all dirt roads are equal. This particular school bus driver has no business going through my neighborhood at the speeds which she drives. That bus is not in danger of being stuck on my street.

Depends on what's "normal". A back hoe in the bay has had an accident. It would appear that work has been done for quite some time, proper officials surely know about it. The fact that they are attempting to protect their shoeline from erosion, looks like a good thing. As far as the bus, school has been out for some time now, is that relevant?

Florida Girl: I am certainly a glass half full person; but I am also a realist, and the track record around here for people doing things without the proper permits, especially when it comes to wetland areas, the beach, and now the bay...the track record is not that good.

And, it's pretty obvious that we can not depend on "the authorities" to do the right thing when it comes to road building, or we never would have had those dangerous intersections! Perhaps if those signals had been installed to begin with, as they should have, then just perhaps several people, including those two teenagers, would still be alive today! And, I know if citizens who cared had not raised hell about it, then we would still have dangerous intersections! It took people standing up for what is right to move the county commissioners to the right thing. And, it took many of the same citizens standing up to keep black dirt off the beach at Blue Mt!

So, observant people who care about their community, do the right thing when something appears inappropriate...that's not gossip or minding others business--it's taking care of our community, and it's everyone's business!

I for one appreciate it when others do it, and I intend to continue being an activist for things that are important to me like the environment and people's lives.....

I assume the dangerous intersections are the ones on 98? That is a state hwy, governed by state code, not county. Still need to have all the data to formulate accurate decisions, many people jump to conclusions, creating unnecessary havoc for others. If the laws are not what they should be, change them! There are proper methods of resolution to problems! Granted not all people are gossips, and not all people are entitled to harrassment! There needs to be a balance of some sort!

Depends on what's "normal". A back hoe in the bay has had an accident. It would appear that work has been done for quite some time, proper officials surely know about it. The fact that they are attempting to protect their shoeline from erosion, looks like a good thing. As far as the bus, school has been out for some time now, is that relevant?

You, not I, brought up school buses.

To the best of my knowledge, a track hoe in the Bay is not normal. To help you define "normal," I ask, how many track hoes have you seen in the Bay? The authorities were aware of the situation, only after they were originally called, and they issued a Stop Work Order.

I sure hope my neighbors are concerned with the community, if anything like my house catches fire, my dogs run away, a thief is breaking in, etc. I guess on your street, you would rather hope the neighbors don't pay attention.

I really like Florida Girl! I could not have said it better myself, each time I read your replies I was cheering you on.

Also looking out for your neighbor is one thing, but taking pictures and posting them on an obvious accidental situation is over the top. If you want to check on the legitimacy of the work & permits, fine. But don't take pictures of a unfortunate situation and a poor worker, and post them and then open it up to ridicule.

Seawalls are meant to stop land erosion. That is a good thing, I thought. It looks like they have the required fencing up, also.