New big blue signs in SoWal

Skunkape should have his reply posted in the local newspapers -- from Pensacola to Apalachicola. Excellent. Gives depth and broader vision behind the need to preserve the unique 30A scene. This will provide a continued beautiful place and increase value and a strong economy. Other recent posts are also excellent. In the meantime, may have to reply to spouter that there is a way for signage without making us look like the worst parts of Bay and Okaloosa. I feel for the citizens in those counties. Some do struggle to preserve the best of their past. They've seen the success of South Walton and are copying in a few places.

I was there, saw Sonny Mares(the interim director) end the meeting early because he could not get his way, even though the collective citizenry voted to keep going not two minutes before. I also heard Tracy Louthain repeat her a thousand times that the 150+ citizens present were ?just a small majority IN [just that]THE ROOM? as though we were not representative of the community at large.

WOW. Like I have said, the TDC had no intention of 'working' with the residents and visitors to South Walton. They made their decision that the signs were staying and more are to come. This has advanced into an adversarial process that we cannot allow to go the TDC's way. The sign issue is just the tip of the problem with a semi-governmental agency run by unelected, rubber-stamping board members and narcissistic paid leadership in control of a slush fund of tens of millions of tax dollars.

You "get" it! I have always felt that each beach should have it's own sign, representative to that particular beach's architecture. I like your idea of including the SoWal beach logo in order to create some consistency and cohesiveness.

ditto!

Hang in there bdarg! I feel like you and the many others are doing a great job communicating (when allowed :roll for us all. It is appreciated! Your ideas are well thought out and compromising.

I would guess if the money already spent is an issue to some on the TDC that most of the beach communities might be willing to fund their own signs and the big blues could be sold on e-bay. (I think we might have a buyer for them here in Texas! Our area of suburbs is rapidly growing and uses very similar signs to these, so they'll be needing more signs.;-))

"30A has also just been declared a scenic highway. A designation shared by only two other highways in Florida. It was mentioned that the signs do not comply with the scenic designation. It would be a shame for 30A to become the first scenic highway to loose its designation due to non-compliance of the big blue signs." - bdarg

I find the above very intriguing .....


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Skunkape should have his reply posted in the local newspapers -- from Pensacola to Apalachicola. Excellent. Gives depth and broader vision behind the need to preserve the unique 30A scene. This will provide a continued beautiful place and increase value and a strong economy. Other recent posts are also excellent. In the meantime, may have to reply to spouter that there is a way for signage without making us look like the worst parts of Bay and Okaloosa. I feel for the citizens in those counties. Some do struggle to preserve the best of their past. They've seen the success of South Walton and are copying in a few places.

ITA and BDarg's too!What I don't get is how they thought they could slip the signage in, just before the scenic route designation occurred, fully knowing that other signs were designed within that designation itself? It sounds as if TDC felt like their agenda was going to be screwed by the designation and wanted to get their "stuff" done first and then claim they can't take them down. The way they are reacting points directly at this possible train of thought. Well, hail, if they had been connected with the community (including both tourists AND locals) they would have never put those things up!A point from BDarg's post... if we could lose the designation because of those butt ugly signs, can there be some sort of alternate route to get those things taken down via Claire and the committee, i.e. a complaint filed with the paper trail showing she had talked at length with the TDC of the scenic route designation plans, including signs, etc.??????

It sounds as if TDC felt like their agenda was going to be screwed by the designation and wanted to get their "stuff" done first and then claim they can't take them down. The way they are reacting points directly at this possible train of thought.

;-)

"30A has also just been declared a scenic highway. A designation shared by only two other highways in Florida. It was mentioned that the signs do not comply with the scenic designation. It would be a shame for 30A to become the first scenic highway to loose its designation due to non-compliance of the big blue signs." - bdarg

This was another thought I had. I didn't realize about the scenic designation, however, do these signs comply with the Walton County's sign police along the 30-A that businesses have struggled so many years with? Is the TDC exempt from these rules. Hasn't the TDC gotten aggravated in the past about efforts to change other things and the designation prevented that. Do I remember some stupid idea about parallel parking and the designation played a part in that? i could be wrong, that was a long time ago.

Another thought, has anyone thought about contacting former Senator Charley Clary? I suppose he represented Walton county when in office. I realize he is no longer a senator, however, he is still a very powerful man in the panhandle. He has helped me in a situation and I found him to be very caring and efficient.

If there is an "official spokes person" who wants to make that call, have someone post, then PM me and I can supply you with his cellular phone number.

If nothing else, he can give some additional direction and possibly phone some of his contacts.

Originally Posted by organicmama
It sounds as if TDC felt like their agenda was going to be screwed by the designation and wanted to get their "stuff" done first and then claim they can't take them down. The way they are reacting points directly at this possible train of thought.

Does this remind you of the developer who dug the canal without permission because he felt it was easier to say, "I'm sorry" instead of going through the steps needed for his action which would have been denied?

Hummmm.... I though the county was going to make an example out of him and here they go using the same tactics.....

It seems to me the TDC is simply out of touch with the area. They lost the feel for the place and it shows. I know some of the board members and I have to say I am VERY disappointed.

I am going to keep it clean. Let's just say that I know enough about Theo, that I wasn't surprised to see him going against the flow last night.

Let's not beat up Theo; I admire him for speaking his mind in a hostile crowd. I thanked him for his making his point of view known; it is as valid as any opinion.

Dave

I am totally shock that you all have so much passion about a few signs when we are facing the public vs private beach issue. If the private sector gets their way we are all in trouble. From everything I have read on this board and the local papers, the TDC went through proper channels for these signs and now everyone is upset. Stay involved in your community, go to the meetings and you could have stopped this before it happened. I'm sorry you folks don't like the signs, but my guest have been very positive about being able to find the beach community there were looking for via those signs. Maybe they could be lowered a little, but I kinda like them.

I would love for all you to write emails, letters, gather signatures about this public vs private beach issue. If this goes to the private owners we will not need the signs, because our visitors will go to other beaches.

I am totally shock that you all have so much passion about a few signs when we are facing the public vs private beach issue. If the private sector gets their way we are all in trouble. From everything I have read on this board and the local papers, the TDC went through proper channels for these signs and now everyone is upset. Stay involved in your community, go to the meetings and you could have stopped this before it happened. I'm sorry you folks don't like the signs, but my guest have been very positive about being able to find the beach community there were looking for via those signs. Maybe they could be lowered a little, but I kinda like them.

I would love for all you to write emails, letters, gather signatures about this public vs private beach issue. If this goes to the private owners we will not need the signs, because our visitors will go to other beaches.

Red, you should be happy that we are this passionate about the character and charm of our community, because it is people like us who are the very ones who also get involved with the public beach issue. You say they are just signs. I say they are signs of things to come, if we don't keep gov't in check. ;-)

Joe

I've lived here all my life and I remember when we had character and charm, but that has been gone for quite some time.

I hear what you are saying when you compare it to many years ago, but there is still much character and charm. You just have to know where to look. The signs which they already had in place were charming, but they paid good money to a company to dig them up, remove them, and replace them with signs which look like they belong at six flags. The next time you begin to think that all the character has been sucked dry, drive to Destin and Panama City Beach, and you will see where we will be in 10-20 years if we try to be like those cities.

SJ,

Did you sign in at the meeting the other night?



robert

Absolutely, wasn't it required? The lady I asked said it was required but one person had objected and didn't sign his name. After reading the news story about the possible violations of the Sunshine Law, I think we know it was the reporter who rightly objected. I didn't however use my own name. I may look dumb, but I ain't stupid. Those signatures and email addresses become public record for anyone to obtain, as per the Sunshine Laws of FL. I'm guessing you know that, and are holding a copy of that sign in page right now. Fortunately, I learned that a few weeks ago, when I was reading up on the laws.

Absolutely, wasn't it required? The lady I asked said it was required but one person had objected and didn't sign his name. After reading the news story about the possible violations of the Sunshine Law, I think we know it was the reporter who rightly objected. I didn't however use my own name. I may look dumb, but I ain't stupid. Those signatures and email addresses become public record for anyone to obtain, as per the Sunshine Laws of FL. I'm guessing you know that, and are holding a copy of that sign in page right now. Fortunately, I learned that a few weeks ago, when I was reading up on the laws.

Darn. Yes I do happen to be holding a copy of it. Had at 9AM the next morning. If nothing else, getting public records from the BCC has got to be the easiest thing anyone can do. I was going to send it to Aleonard to help in her quest, but never mind now.

For anyone else trying to look into things, making the request to Walton County Legal Department is the quickest way to get a response. They have the knowledge to 'splain things in a way that illicits a quick response.

Red Dawg, I'd disagree that proceedure was followed. While that is their (TDC) story and they're sticking to it, there is evidence that shows otherwise. I've been here all my life too, and am so grateful that many who have moved in, from yesterday to decades ago, work really hard to keep the charm of this area. Those signs are horrible, don't fit in and must come down. Sure, things have and will change, but it needs to happen with real understanding and vision. Some of the largest developments along 30A opted out before signs were put up. More would have if adequate and fully transparent advance notice had been given. With the Scenic 30A designation, additional signage will come along if and as needed. Thank goodness some of the most reckless and manipulative developers in Bay and Okaloosa ignored us during the 80s and 90s. Otherwise, we would look just like them. Some were stalled during the early 2000s, but it looks like they are reving up for a new run. If we can just keep them and others that don't have a clue about who we really are out of our business, we will continue to be beautiful and prosperous. And, there is passion for all the other topics, this was just timely and on the docket this week. Just because it is not on the front page of the newspaper, doesn't mean people aren't working behind the scenes.

Darn. Yes I do happen to be holding a copy of it. Had at 9AM the next morning. If nothing else, getting public records from the BCC has got to be the easiest thing anyone can do. I was going to send it to Aleonard to help in her quest, but never mind now.

For anyone else trying to look into things, making the request to Walton County Legal Department is the quickest way to get a response. They have the knowledge to 'splain things in a way that illicits a quick response.

Ding Dang it. Foiled again Oh well, back to stalker mode

30A will not loose its scenic highway designation. FDOT has several requirements for its State Road signs. If they do not meet the requirements FDOT will have them removed.

These state wayfinding sign requirements include:

- 4.5" tall text on small roads like 30A and 6" tall text on large capacity roads.
- The sign needs to be 84" to the bottom of the sign panel.
- The contrast between the background and the text must be a 70% contrast in color.
- The text needs to be engineer grade reflective vinyl
- The destinations need to be based upon a criteria list

The question is is 30A a state highway?

If so, the above rules will have to be met as FDOT does not make exceptions.

If not a more contextual design (i.e. routed dimensional signs with a rustic or rural character) is the way to go. and you don't need FDOT's involvement.

I do not live on 30A but have vacationed there a few times. You all have a wonderful sliver of paradise and I look forward to returning. The character of your community should not be diminished by some signs they should be enhanced by wayfinding system you can be proud of.

Jonny

The question is is 30A a state highway?

County Highway 30A is not a state highway.

That is why it is called COUNTY 30A .. it is entired in Walton County.

What is more funn to do on a Friday night than to read through the FL DOT (Dept of Transportation) rules for wayfinding signs on State Highways?
Here are a few design rules from the FL DOT:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Verdana]14-51.052 Design.

(1) Red, yellow, orange, fluorescent yellow-green or fluorescent pink shall not be used as background colors for Wayfinding Signs, in order to minimize confusion with regulatory, warning, construction, or incident management signs.

(2) Background colors, other than those stated in Subsection 14-51.052(1), F.A.C., shall be allowed on Wayfinding Signs.

(3) A minimum contrast value of legend color to background color of 70 percent is required for Wayfinding Signs (ADA minimum contrast value).

(4) Enhancement markers may be used, at the option of the applicant, as a means of aesthetically identifying the Wayfinding Signs. The size and shape of an enhancement marker shall be smaller than the Wayfinding Signs in order to avoid confusion with traffic control devices.

(5) A pictograph may be incorporated into the overall design of a Wayfinding Sign.

(6) There shall be a maximum of three destinations shown on each Wayfinding Sign....


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At the meeting the other night, the interim Director of the TDC pulled out a display board, saying that the signs were designed to FL DOT standards. He was defending the blue color of the background on the signs, saying that the FL DOT's guidelines required the background color to be blue. Reading item #1, above, I fail to see that.

Also, regarding item #6, above, If there is a max of only three destinations to be shown on each wayfinding sign, what the hell were they thinking making the signs that big? I thought maybe they were saving room for future developments to be added, but if they follow the FL DOT guidelines, they won't add any more destinations.

CR 30A is a County Road, hence the "CR" in the name. My point of the above, is that the interim Director of the TDC was giving us false information, trying to steer the 200 ppl in attendance into working around the blue color of the signs.
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if the signs somehow were just gone one day do you think they would be replaced ? remember there used to be one on 331 just south of the bay it hasn't reappeared yet .

if the signs somehow were just gone one day do you think they would be replaced ? remember there used to be one on 331 just south of the bay it hasn't reappeared yet .

Did the TDC have the authority to post a County sign on State Highways, like 331? They screwed it up anyway. If they tried to spend another $5400 to replace that sign, I would really begin to raise some hell, and it wouldn't be at a TDC meeting. It would be a the BCC (Board of County Commissioners) Mtg.

Did the TDC have the authority to post a County sign on State Highways, like 331? They screwed it up anyway. If they tried to spend another $5400 to replace that sign, I would really begin to raise some hell, and it wouldn't be at a TDC meeting. It would be a the BCC (Board of County Commissioners) Mtg.

I think it would meet the same fate.