Coastal Drilling - For or Against?

My HEAD says yes...My HEART says no !

My HEAD says yes...My HEART says no !

I'm with you goofer. I can't pretend to know what's the right and smart thing to do, but I'd hate to see happen to Florida (and other) beaches what happened to Texas beaches.

I'd like to know what an earlier poster based his assertion on regarding oil companies being good stewards of the environment - Big Oil's ads? I've fished the coast of Louisiana on many occasions and in my experience, "good stewards" is the last phrase I'd use to describe the crap that was left everywhere. Maybe what I saw was the result of smaller companies and not the giants, and if that's the case, I stand corrected. But as Miss Kitty says, it's alot easier lettin' the cat out of the bag than puttin' it back in.

Plus, we're still stuck with a dirty, non-renewable resource with exponential (China & India) demand. Aren't we smart enough to come up with a better solution?

And nuclear power scares the bejeesus out of me. Yes, it's "clean" when it's created, but the radioactive waste remains active for 10,000 years. How is that being "good stewards?" http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/07/0711_020711_yuccaspikes.html

Each generation does what's good for them, and future generations be damned. Those future generations are our children and grandchildren. I'd like to leave them a better legacy.

To the folks that want to open the off shore area of Florida to drilling, why do you think so many people from Texas and Louisiana vacation here? Their beaches are on the exact same Gulf of Mexico.

To the ANWAR debate, they recently did a study that showed it would take 20 years to develop and start producing, and once in production it would only lower gas $.14-$.85 a gallon. To me this is not enough of a savings to warrant destroying the largest and arguably the most beautiful natural preserves in this country. If that minute a savings is worth it to you then we might as well scrape any taxes on gas for road repair and maintenance. Hey we'll save now, of course we won't have roads that are driveable and that will really cut down on gas usage.

I would really like to see the oil companies put their money where their marketing is, in alternative energy sources. Instead we are told that they are researching it (couldn't produce those numbers when questioned by congress) and then turn around and start lobbying to open up more drilling. I think the fox is in the hen house.

To the folks that want to open the off shore area of Florida to drilling, why do you think so many people from Texas and Louisiana vacation here? Their beaches are on the exact same Gulf of Mexico.

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The beaches in Texas are always crowded. Just like the beaches on the east coast of Fla, Ga, SC, NC, etc. No lack of people going to these places. SoWal isn't the be all end all in terms of beach locales. If it was, demand for homes, lots, condos, etc would still be through the roof.

It's my favorite beach, but I know lots and lots of people that prefer other beaches over SoWal.

My understanding is that China is *not* drilling for oil in the Gulf.

http://www.miamiherald.com/campaign08/story/567156.html

But now our governor supports drilling.

http://www.miamiherald.com/campaign08/story/573350.html

This attitude seems so short-sighted to me. As others have said, it is a band-aid approach.
Many other countries seem more forward-thinking; they have fuel economy standards that are stricter than ours.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ideas/article/326294

I know it is not easy to change our ways, but it sure does seem like the right time to invest in new technologies rather than just literally digging ourselves into a deeper hole.

To the folks that want to open the off shore area of Florida to drilling, why do you think so many people from Texas and Louisiana vacation here? Their beaches are on the exact same Gulf of Mexico.

To the ANWAR debate, they recently did a study that showed it would take 20 years to develop and start producing, and once in production it would only lower gas $.14-$.85 a gallon. To me this is not enough of a savings to warrant destroying the largest and arguably the most beautiful natural preserves in this country. If that minute a savings is worth it to you then we might as well scrape any taxes on gas for road repair and maintenance. Hey we'll save now, of course we won't have roads that are driveable and that will really cut down on gas usage.

I would really like to see the oil companies put their money where their marketing is, in alternative energy sources. Instead we are told that they are researching it (couldn't produce those numbers when questioned by congress) and then turn around and start lobbying to open up more drilling. I think the fox is in the hen house.

Louisiana beaches are muddy thanks to a little bayou that empties into the Gulf off her coast! Don't let the mud fool you-the waters are rich with life which may be a better indicator of how foul the water is.

We are fortunate in SoWal not to have the runoff from the Mississippi River and there was an epic event where the Georgia Channel System stopped intercepting the siliciclastic sediments. Otherwise our white sand would look more like Texas or even other parts of Florida. Why is our sand so white, special, so different? It is not because of the lack of oil drilling. Here's one of the best explanations I've found. "The Late Oligocene regression ... was responsible for major changes in the depositional history and development of the Florida Platform. The Georgia Channel System provided an effective barrier to siliciclastic-sediment transport onto the Florida Platform, allowing the platform to persist as a subtropical carbonate bank. The depositional environments of the Florida Platform and the Bahamas Platform were very similar until the Georgia Channel System stopped intercepting the siliciclastic sediments, and since the latest Oligocene the depositional environments of the two platforms have been significantly different. The Bahamas Platform persisted as a carbonate bank, while the Florida Platform was increasingly dominated by siliciclastics." p. 61 The Geology of Florida by Randazzo and Jones

Coastal drilling, or drilling in ANWR is just a temporary stopgap - we need to start taking a good hard look at our consumption habits and change them voluntarily before we are forced to extreme measures.

Water and oil/energy are the 2 biggies right now and part of the reason they are an issue is because of excess and bad planning, not a true scarcity.

I feel like our government both nationally and locally, is using this crisis as an excuse to do something they have politically wanted to do for years. As SJ mentions, efficiency and cutting back are the answers, otherwise this could be our future:
http://www.nbc11.com/slideshow/14532919/detail.htmlindex.html?currentSlide=0&taf=bay

Oil would absolutely destroy white sand beaches. Not worth it.

Just posted on CNN: Bush calls for offshore and ANWR drilling. :angry:

Interesting data from the article:
Oil production cost

Here's what the price of a barrel of oil needs to be for different sources of petroleum to be profitably extracted:

- Accessible land: $19
- Shallow water: $20-60
- Deep water: $60
- Shale mining: $30-50
- Oil Sands: $50-60

Current price per barrel: $134

Sources: U.S. Govt. CERA, Rand, EnCana

Oil would absolutely destroy white sand beaches. Not worth it.

Aw, come on, black and white mixed make gray which is the new white. Where is your sense of fashion?

Seriously, US companies would have the most stringent safeguards of any other country. China, India, Venezuela and Brazil have or are conducting tests in the Gulf. Mexico is drilling already. The US sits idly by saying we need to decrease our demand. And I agree, we should. But oil is much more than Black Gold or Texas Tea; we have a distribution economy which requires oil to run. We have to buy enough oil from rogue states that it is a national security issue more than how much it will affect the price of gasoline.

The US is the world's largest producer and consumer of oil - we currently use 25% of the world's oil and 10% of that is just for our SUVs, pickup trucks, and other light trucks.

We get 41% of our oil from the US and our biggest source of foreign oil is Canada, not some "rogue state".

USA - 41%
Canada - 9%
Saudia Arabia - 8%
Venezuela - 8%
Mexico - 7%
Nigeria - 5%
Iraq - 4%
Norway - 1.7%
Angola - 1.7%
Columbia - 1.7%
Kuwait - 1.3%

The problem is that we only have 5% of the world's oil reserves in North America - the vast majority is under the Middle East, so all we are doing by accelerating the rate at which we pump out our oil reserves is making the day where we ARE truly dependent on the Middle East for oil come that much sooner!

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/colombia/images/map.swf

The US is the world's largest producer and consumer of oil - we currently use 25% of the world's oil and 10% of that is just for our SUVs, pickup trucks, and other light trucks.

We get 41% of our oil from the US and our biggest source of foreign oil is Canada, not some "rogue state".

USA - 41%
Canada - 9%
Saudia Arabia - 8%
Venezuela - 8%
Mexico - 7%
Nigeria - 5%
Iraq - 4%
Norway - 1.7%
Angola - 1.7%
Columbia - 1.7%
Kuwait - 1.3%

The problem is that we only have 5% of the world's oil reserves in North America - the vast majority is under the Middle East, so all we are doing by accelerating the rate at which we pump out our oil reserves is making the day where we ARE truly dependent on the Middle East for oil come that much sooner!

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/colombia/images/map.swf

I'm hip. In fact, I published part of the oil source list by country here before.

We buy enough oil from Venezuela that it could easily become a national security issue one day. If Hugo wanted to play havoc with the US, he could withhold oil from the world market. Who would we ask to supplant it? As China and India continue to grow, they could put a squeeze on oil supply.

Below is a table of countries ranked by oil reserves. Does a particular country jump off the list at you? Sooner or later, our williness to not drill domestically and not build more refineries will come home to roost. If we can decrease demand by a huge margin, we will have no problem except that oil is fungible and what we don't buy, China and India most likely will which could keep prices high and perhaps oil in short supply.


Journal, Vol. 104, No. 47 (December 18, 2006), pp. 24-25.

I'm surprised nobody has brought up oil speculation's contribution to this mess...

I'm surprised nobody has brought up oil speculation's contribution to this mess...

That's because the same wonks that claimed the housing bubble wasn't a result of speculation are still in charge--they couldn't find their own arses with both hands and a map.

Although, I do believe that the argument in favor of oil and other commodities is a hell of a lot more viable than the theory of bazillions of "baby boomers" scrambling to buy up $1.5M 700sf condo boxes.

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Someone was telling me there are a bunch of LA oil wells that they stopped using because of cost. Apparently the magic number for those wells was $80 barrel, so I am guessing that the oil companies will be reopening some.

My Mom gets oil royalties from wells in Illinois that were not pumped for years. It was probably around that price range that the oil companies came back in and started pumping.

To the folks that want to open the off shore area of Florida to drilling, why do you think so many people from Texas and Louisiana vacation here? Their beaches are on the exact same Gulf of Mexico.

Pretty common to hear stories of tar balls around Galveston - People don't wear their flip flops into the house!! It's part of life there. That doesn't mean people don't go to the beach there. And a weekend get-a-way is possible from here where it isn't to Florida.

To the ANWAR debate, they recently did a study that showed it would take 20 years to develop and start producing, and once in production it would only lower gas $.14-$.85 a gallon. To me this is not enough of a savings to warrant destroying the largest and arguably the most beautiful natural preserves in this country. If that minute a savings is worth it to you then we might as well scrape any taxes on gas for road repair and maintenance. Hey we'll save now, of course we won't have roads that are driveable and that will really cut down on gas usage.

I would really like to see the oil companies put their money where their marketing is, in alternative energy sources. Instead we are told that they are researching it (couldn't produce those numbers when questioned by congress) and then turn around and start lobbying to open up more drilling. I think the fox is in the hen house.

Yes! And conservation would be the easiest and quickest way for us to become more energy independent. As a country, we just have to be willing to do that.


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"Even one accident related to oil and gas exploration or production could prove catastrophic, not only to the coastal resources that make Florida special, but also to our state's vital tourism and fishing industries ... For Florida, drilling in the Gulf of Mexico presents economic as well as environmental dangers." CHARLIE CRIST, 2006
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CHARLIE CRIST 2008:



"Really Billy, the fact that you'll be scraping black oil tar off your feet and swimming among dead fish is a small price to pay so that your Daddy can tool around in his Hummer all day long."


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I'm hip. In fact, I published part of the oil source list by country here before.

We buy enough oil from Venezuela that it could easily become a national security issue one day. If Hugo wanted to play havoc with the US, he could withhold oil from the world market. Who would we ask to supplant it? As China and India continue to grow, they could put a squeeze on oil supply.

Below is a table of countries ranked by oil reserves. Does a particular country jump off the list at you? Sooner or later, our williness to not drill domestically and not build more refineries will come home to roost. If we can decrease demand by a huge margin, we will have no problem except that oil is fungible and what we don't buy, China and India most likely will which could keep prices high and perhaps oil in short supply.

Table 3. World Oil Reserves by Country as of
January 1, 2007
(Billion Barrels)
Country Oil Reserves
Saudi Arabia . . . . . . . . . . . 262.3
Canada . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 179.2
Iran. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 136.3
Iraq. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115.0
Kuwait . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 101.5
United Arab Emirates. . . . . 97.8
Venezuela . . . . . . . . . . . . . 80.0
Russia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60.0
Libya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41.5
Nigeria . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36.2
Kazakhstan . . . . . . . . . . . . 30.0
United States . . . . . . . . . . . 21.8
China . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16.0
Qatar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15.2
Mexico . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.4
Algeria . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.3
Brazil . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11.8
Angola . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.0
Norway. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.8
Azerbaijan . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.0
Rest of World . . . . . . . . . . . 65.5
World Total . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,317.4
?Worldwide Look at Reserves and Production,? Oil & Gas​

Journal, Vol. 104, No. 47 (December 18, 2006), pp. 24-25.

The oil shale reserves (not including reserves in the gulf, ANWAR, etc) in the US dwarf the oil reserves in any other country. I have seen estimates that range as high as 3 TRILLION barrels.

Here is a snippet from a study done regarding the reserves available in the basin area of Colorado, Wyoming and Utah.

The largest known oil shale deposits in the world are in the Green River Formation,
which covers portions of Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming. Estimates of the oil
resource in place within the Green River Formation range from 1.5 to 1.8 trillion
barrels. Not all resources in place are recoverable. For potentially recoverable oil shale
resources, we roughly derive an upper bound of 1.1 trillion barrels of oil and a lower
bound of about 500 billion barrels. For policy planning purposes, it is enough to
know that any amount in this range is very high. For example, the midpoint in our
estimate range, 800 billion barrels, is more than triple the proven oil reserves of Saudi
Arabia. Present U.S. demand for petroleum products is about 20 million barrels per
day. If oil shale could be used to meet a quarter of that demand, 800 billion barrels
of recoverable resources would last for more than 400 years.

I agree that we need to conserve, reduce emmissions, etc, etc. But, we also need to go after the oil reserves we have in our own back yard. We could become TOTALLY energy independent if we chose to. Use our own reserves and our own refineries for America first, then worry about the rest of the world. The politicians and environmentalists need to get off their arses and go after the reserves sitting right under our noses, refine it in our refineries and stop buying from the likes of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, etc.

It can be done if our representatives in Washington have the intestinal fortitude to think strategically and globally versus politically covering their own worthless arses.

I believe there are some big oil interests who are sitting on their heels while we buy up all the oil from Saudi Arabia and everywhere else in the world until it is gone and then you will see the US become the next Saudi Arabia.

Just imagine what the US would do to world policies if held all those countries hostage because we now had all the oil.

Was talking to someone yesterday who was quite PO'd because apparently the land all around ANWR is leased but not being drilled on - really made her question why we need to drill in ANWR when the entire surrounding area is available but unused.

I personally think the whole ANWR and coastal drilling thing is a crock - they are just preying on the sheeple's hysteria to open up places to drilling.

This today:

AP
Oil drops as China says it will raise fuel prices
Thursday June 19, 11:19 am ET
By John Wilen, AP Business Writer Oil prices drop after China says it will raise fuel prices, which could dampen demand
NEW YORK (AP) -- Oil prices dropped Thursday after China said it will raise fuel prices, a move that could dampen the booming Asian nation's oil consumption. Retail gas prices slid overnight.
Light, sweet crude for July delivery fell $2.10 to $134.58 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, but dipped more than $3 at times.
China disclosed that it will raise the prices of gasoline, diesel, aviation kerosene and electricity. It was not immediately clear if those price hikes would be implemented by lowering fuel subsidies.
Growing Chinese demand for oil has underpinned the multiyear rally in oil prices. But higher prices could crimp that demand. Concerns about spiking Chinese demand for diesel due to cleanup operations in the aftermath of last month's earthquake contributed to oil's run-up in recent weeks.
"This could change the psychology of the market completely," said James Cordier, president of Tampa, Fla.-based trading firms Liberty Trading Group and OptionSellers.com.
Lower demand in China "would be a major factor in driving prices down," said Phil Flynn, an analyst at Alaron Trading Corp. in Chicago.
Also pressuring prices Thursday were the dollar's gains against the euro. Investors who buy commodities such as oil as a hedge against inflation when the dollar falls tend to sell when the greenback gains ground. Also, a stronger dollar makes oil more expensive to overseas investors.
Price declines were limited Thursday by news of an attack on a Nigerian oil field. A leader of the Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta told The Associated Press that militant fighters traveled in boats through heavy seas to attack the Bonga oil field more than 65 miles from land. But they were not able to enter a computer control room that they had hoped to destroy.
A Royal Dutch Shell spokesman confirmed an attack, but gave no details. He said production had been stopped from the field, which normally produces about 200,000 barrels of crude per day.
The news added to concerns about the threat of a strike by Nigerian white-collar oil workers. Crude futures climbed more than $2 a barrel on Wednesday on reports that Nigerian oil workers were about to strike after talks between U.S. energy giant Chevron Corp. and the country's white-collar oil industry workers had broken down. A later news report said the walkout had been avoided.
At the pump, meanwhile, gas prices slipped 0.2 cent overnight to a national average of $4.073 a gallon, according to a survey of stations by AAA and the Oil Price Information Service. Gas prices have followed oil futures higher this year. But with oil prices stalled in a rough range between $132 and $139, gas prices appear to have topped out, for now.
In other Nymex trading, July gasoline futures fell 6.58 cents to $3.4009 a gallon, and July heating oil futures fell 7.28 cents to $3.7872 a gallon. July natural gas futures fell 7.6 cents to $13.134 per 1,000 cubic feet. The Energy Department said natural gas inventories rose by 57 billion cubic feet last week, toward the lower end of the range of analyst estimates. In London, August Brent crude futures fell $1.83 to $134.61 a barrel on the ICE Futures Exchange. Associated Press writers George Jahn in Vienna, Austria, and Gillian Wong in Singapore contributed to this report.

Interesting how there is always SOMETHING to justify driving the prices up! China is being smart and taking measures to reduce demand, so rebels in Nigeria are today's oil crisis du jour! :angry:

Love the 2 different approaches - in the US we want to drill in protected areas when prices are high, in China, they RAISE the prices to reduce use and ultimately drive the price down with reduced demand.

Interesting how there is always SOMETHING to justify driving the prices up! China is being smart and taking measures to reduce demand, so rebels in Nigeria are today's oil crisis du jour! :angry:

Love the 2 different approaches - in the US we want to drill in protected areas when prices are high, in China, they RAISE the prices to reduce use and ultimately drive the price down with reduced demand.

Like flowers on Valentine's Day. California seemingly has an unprecedented rain event or drought every February.