Coastal Drilling - For or Against?

Drilling off the coast is putting a band-aid on a much bigger problem, our dependence on oil... We need to find an alternative but that isn't going to happen when we continue to dig for oil...

"Necessity is the mother of invention"

Not a lot of necessity when we continue to dig and find oil, it just pushes back the inevitable... The NEED to find an alternative source of fuel...

A side note: Does anyone know if there's been any research done on taking liquid/oil out of the Earth and it's repercussions??? Like more earthquakes, rotation problems, etc...

Drilling off the coast is putting a band-aid on a much bigger problem, our dependence on oil... We need to find an alternative but that isn't going to happen when we continue to dig for oil...

"Necessity is the mother of invention"

Not a lot of necessity when we continue to dig and find oil, it just pushes back the inevitable... The NEED to find an alternative source of fuel...

A side note: Does anyone know if there's been any research done on taking liquid/oil out of the Earth and it's repercussions??? Like more earthquakes, rotation problems, etc...

That'll be the latest goofy thing, it's not global warming, it's global slowing and the oil companies are still to blame! :funn: Actually that might not be a bad thing, things might get lighter due to lack of gravity.

That'll be the latest goofy thing, it's not global warming, it's global slowing and the oil companies are still to blame! :funn: Actually that might not be a bad thing, things might get lighter due to lack of gravity.

It does sound a little goofy, but before it was proven, people that thought the earth was 'round' were considered 'goofy'...

If you have a ball that is partially full of liquid and solid matter and spin it on a table top... Then take out half of the liquid, do you think it'll will rotate differently..?

Some scientist think the earth's 'wobble' causes tides, certain weather patterns... it's called the Chandler wobble... It's been hypothesized that it's due partially from the liquid matter of the world...

We've been keeping records for a short period of time when compared to the age of the Earth... So looking back and comparing information from today (such as temperatures, rainfall amounts, the chandler wobble, etc...) to records of the past and thinking we know what the effects or causes are or is going to be is like looking at the middle pages of a million page book and being able to tell what the beginning and the end is going to be... You can't...

Sorry for the long post...

It does sound a little goofy, but before it was proven, people that thought the earth was 'round' were considered 'goofy'...

If you have a ball that is partially full of liquid and solid matter and spin it on a table top... Then take out half of the liquid, do you think it'll will rotate differently..?

Some scientist think the earth's 'wobble' causes tides, certain weather patterns... it's called the Chandler wobble... It's been hypothesized that it's due partially from the liquid matter of the world...

We've been keeping records for a short period of time when compared to the age of the Earth... So looking back and comparing information from today (such as temperatures, rainfall amounts, the chandler wobble, etc...) to records of the past and thinking we know what the effects or causes are or is going to be is like looking at the middle pages of a million page book and being able to tell what the beginning and the end is going to be... You can't...

Sorry for the long post...

I personally blame Einstein. He redefined Newtonian gravity and the world hasn't been the same since.

Umm I thought they proved that the moon was responsible for tides. Say cheese. :Biggrin:

Seriously though I don't doubt that removing huge masses of liquid and not replacing it would probably cause problems. However, I believe that oil is replaced with sand or water or something, otherwise the middle east would have caved in ages ago.

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"Even one accident related to oil and gas exploration or production could prove catastrophic, not only to the coastal resources that make Florida special, but also to our state's vital tourism and fishing industries ... For Florida, drilling in the Gulf of Mexico presents economic as well as environmental dangers." CHARLIE CRIST, 2006
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CHARLIE CRIST 2008:
"Really Billy, the fact that you'll be scraping black oil tar off your feet and swimming among dead fish is a small price to pay so that your Daddy can tool around in his Hummer all day long."

What? Have you ever been to Bermuda? I don't know how it is now, but the last time we went, the water was full of tar from ships discarding oil into the Atlantic. We'd literally get covered with tar and have to clean up at one of the turpentine stands before leaving the beach. The tar wouldn't come off our swimsuits. We went to Bermuda several times in the 1990's, but stopped going because it was a pain to deal with the tar.

Offshore drilling is just a bandaid that could fall off and cause oil to bleed into the Gulf of Mexico. We need to look for alternatives.

Umm I thought they proved that the moon was responsible for tides. Say cheese. :Biggrin:.

Well, Einstein defined gravity as the unseen curvature of space caused by the presence of matter. Until he redefined it, gravity did not have the tidal effect it now has.

What? Have you ever been to Bermuda? I don't know how it is now, but the last time we went, the water was full of tar from ships discarding oil into the Atlantic. We'd literally get covered with tar and have to clean up at one of the turpentine stands before leaving the beach. The tar wouldn't come off our swimsuits. We went to Bermuda several times in the 1990's, but stopped going because it was a pain to deal with the tar.

Offshore drilling is just a bandaid that could fall off and cause oil to bleed into the Gulf of Mexico. We need to look for alternatives.

Hehe

What? Have you ever been to Bermuda? I don't know how it is now, but the last time we went, the water was full of tar from ships discarding oil into the Atlantic. We'd literally get covered with tar and have to clean up at one of the turpentine stands before leaving the beach. The tar wouldn't come off our swimsuits. We went to Bermuda several times in the 1990's, but stopped going because it was a pain to deal with the tar.

Offshore drilling is just a bandaid that could fall off and cause oil to bleed into the Gulf of Mexico. We need to look for alternatives.

I first became intimately acquainted with black tar while swimming in the Pacific off the California coast @ Santa Barbara WAY back in the 70s. We used to carry a bottle of Dry Cleaning Solution to the beach to get the tar off our feet.

I also had black oil encounters in Texas around Corpus Christi..big blobs of oil scattered among the jellyfish on the beach--didn't go in swimming there.

Never been to Bermuda...:shock: at least not that I can recollect.

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I've read/heard that the black tar off Santa Barbara is a *naturally-occurring* event.
I was at Santa Barbara a few years ago and didn't see it, but a friend of mine was just there last week, and she and her husband not only saw it, they became covered with it. Their hotel room was stocked with little towelettes specifically for this sort of cleanup.

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A report from Central& Northern California Ocean Observing System titled Tarballs on Our Beaches 2008 : .http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cencoos.org/images/Tarball%2520Beach%2520Cleanup%2520San%2520Mateo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cencoos.org/Tarballs%2520in%2520central%2520CA%252008.htm&h=240&w=320&sz=20&hl=en&start=3&sig2=-XNh7ojr038PwMHFPatNaA&tbnid=EcswxenpC17CuM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=118&ei=dKdbSMCKIJO-iwHG4eCKDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsanta%2Bbarbara%2Btarballs%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX

?................The beaches where tarballs were found - as of January 29th, 2008.....................................CDFG determined the tarballs to be derived from seafloor areas of Monterey rock formation oil deposits ............................Therefore, they are from a natural source and not a result of the Cosco Busan Oil Spill (or any other spill). Because the source was not an oil spill, the funds devoted to the cleanup effort by the Coast Guard were removed and local agencies took over where necessary (or possible).........
........................Some researchers believe that Monterey Bay contains oil seeps that may cause tarballs. Other scientists think the large seeps in the Santa Barbara Channel, which cause consistent issues on beaches in that area, may be the source. This would require strong and consistent northerly currents to bring the tarballs to the Monterey Bay and areas further north...............................?

Tar Balls. They have been around here for years. Bad thing. In the last 20 or 30 years there were times when we would have to keep turpentine handy and not wear our flip flops in the house here. Guess we need a scientific analysis or perhaps shipping records to determine where they really come from. (Just saw above posts, busy typing when they came up. Interesting and informative.)ANWR hasn't been opened for the last 10 or 20 years for a number of reasons. One is that the powerful labor unions stopped it because they could not get an exclusive union only, closed shop labor agreement. Alaska's senior U.S. Senator and the Senator of the Bridge to Nowhere Ted Stevens was a key player. There are true and good environmentalists and environmental organizations just as there are good and true oil development companies and business people. There are those who are only in it for the lobby money and fund raising this hot topic provides. The truth between Big Oil and Big Environment is sometimes difficult to discern.

From today's Florida Trend, and so true:


Friday's Top Stories

What You Need To Know About Florida Today

FRIDAY, JUNE 20, 2008

THE GULF:
Where Offshore Drilling Goes, Beaches Suffer
Stephen Leatherman, known as Dr. Beach, has seen what offshore drilling can do to a beach. Texas beaches, for instance, "tend to be the trash can of the gulf." Waste from the western gulf's wells ? everything from empty oil drums to tar balls ? washes up there. Allowing drilling in the eastern gulf ? a move now touted by President Bush, GOP presidential candidate John McCain and Gov. Charlie Crist ? carries risks for the environment as well as for Florida's economy. Over the past 40 years, oil companies have drilled thousands of wells across the western and central gulf, and there are now about 3,800 offshore structures there. Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama have been willing to overlook the trash and tar in exchange for cash and jobs.
[Source: St. Petersburg Times]

The argument against drilling leaves out the greatest pro, that if the world does run out of oil, we are sitting on huge reserves while we buy it from the Saudis, Canadians, etc for relatively cheap, while US companies and workers help them extract it. That being said, I'm all for exploiting the reserves we have, watching for innovation as the price of fuel increases, and Obama! turning water into oil at the Canaan wedding. I'm also completely against energy independence.

The question is not whether there will be drilling in the Gulf and the Atlantic. There will be; it's just that US drillers will not be there along side China, India, Brazil, Venezuela and Mexico. The sad irony is that the US would be the most careful and thoughtful concerning safety measures as compared to those countries.

I just might be voting for Obama instead of McCain. Obama is on CNN right now saying that there is absolutely no evidence that offshore drilling will lower gas prices and that he is against offshore drilling.

I remember emailing Jeb Bush a few years ago stating my opposition to offshore drilling in the Gulf. His return email said that he was against it as well. I guess his big bro disagrees.

If McCain said he was for drilling, no matter how Obama felt, he had to take the other side. It is an election year.
Of course, all bets will be off once someone wins the whitehouse. Uhhhh....New evidence has suggested that I should switch my position on drilling in.........

Good point Traderx on ethics, I would tend to agree.

I just might be voting for Obama instead of McCain. Obama is on CNN right now saying that there is absolutely no evidence that offshore drilling will lower gas prices and that he is against offshore drilling.

I'd sure feel a little better if the potential leader of the free world had taken an economics class at Harvard.

I'd sure feel a little better if the potential leader of the free world had taken an economics class at Harvard.

Or at the Naval Academy from the one who admits that economics isn't his strong suit. But it's possible he took an economics course there, not that that would make him an expert. I guess that why Presidents need a Cabinet. Who can be an expert at everything?

Or at the Naval Academy from the one who admits that economics isn't his strong suit.

Absolutely. I just think McCain has a little better chance of listening when someone whispers "Shut up, stupid. When supply increases and demand remains constant, price is forced down." In homage to WFB, if I could control Obama!s teleprompter, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.

The argument against drilling leaves out the greatest pro, that if the world does run out of oil, we are sitting on huge reserves while we buy it from the Saudis, Canadians, etc for relatively cheap, while US companies and workers help them extract it. That being said, I'm all for exploiting the reserves we have, watching for innovation as the price of fuel increases, and Obama! turning water into oil at the Canaan wedding. I'm also completely against energy independence.

Why?

"The Late Oligocene regression ... was responsible for major changes in the depositional history and development of the Florida Platform. The Georgia Channel System provided an effective barrier to siliciclastic-sediment transport onto the Florida Platform, allowing the platform to persist as a subtropical carbonate bank. The depositional environments of the Florida Platform and the Bahamas Platform were very similar until the Georgia Channel System stopped intercepting the siliciclastic sediments, and since the latest Oligocene the depositional environments of the two platforms have been significantly different. The Bahamas Platform persisted as a carbonate bank, while the Florida Platform was increasingly dominated by siliciclastics." p. 61 The Geology of Florida by Randazzo and Jones

Very good book for anyone interested in Florida Geology!

Coastal drilling, or drilling in ANWR is just a temporary stopgap - we need to start taking a good hard look at our consumption habits and change them voluntarily before we are forced to extreme measures.

Water and oil/energy are the 2 biggies right now and part of the reason they are an issue is because of excess and bad planning, not a true scarcity.

I agree. No matter what we do, eventually oil will become too scarce. I think the sooner we learn how to live without so much of life dependent on it the better.

If McCain said he was for drilling, no matter how Obama felt, he had to take the other side. It is an election year.
Of course, all bets will be off once someone wins the whitehouse. Uhhhh....New evidence has suggested that I should switch my position on drilling in.........

It really disappoints but doesn't surprise me from McCain - it is rather the Republican position. I'm particularly disturbed by the stance that it is okay to drill off of Florida but not in ANWR. I just don't buy that there is a distinction. Either you are for drilling in ecologically sensitive areas or not.

It is sad that Obama will also probably endorse drilling off the Florida Coast at some point.

I hope we (the entire world, not just the US) can get over the reliance on oil sooner rather than later.

For the same reason that I am against other forms of protectionism. Energy independence requires us to buy only from inside the country, and requires us not to sell until every need here is met. It automatically eliminates other potentially better options, and it creates a limited autarky, which makes people poorer.

Drilling for oil or gas off the coast of Florida will result in degradation of our waters and beaches even if no petroleum reserves are found.
Before moving to Florida in 1991 I was a petroleum geologist and studied coastal processes at LUMCON one summer. Have any of you ever been to the uninhabitated islands off of Louisiana's coast? The beaches are strewn with trash, Light bulbs and milk cartons everywhere. I questioned the professor and he said it comes from the oil rigs. Drilling rigs and production platforms are little towns. Do you think for one minute the oil companies are hauling all their trash into port by boat? Drilling mud is a caustic chemical; do you think it's all disposed of properly? Back in the 80's when Chevron was drilling in Mobile Bay they had all kind of higher than normal standards for the operations. Still they got caught dumping drilling mud over the side in the middle of the night. So what, they pay the fine. Sort of like some developers around her. Get caught breaking the law, pay the fine, just part of the cost of doing business.

Drilling for oil or gas off the coast of Florida will result in degradation of our waters and beaches even if no petroleum reserves are found.
Before moving to Florida in 1991 I was a petroleum geologist and studied coastal processes at LUMCON one summer. Have any of you ever been to the uninhabitated islands off of Louisiana's coast? The beaches are strewn with trash, Light bulbs and milk cartons everywhere. I questioned the professor and he said it comes from the oil rigs. Drilling rigs and production platforms are little towns. Do you think for one minute the oil companies are hauling all their trash into port by boat? Drilling mud is a caustic chemical; do you think it's all disposed of properly? Back in the 80's when Chevron was drilling in Mobile Bay they had all kind of higher than normal standards for the operations. Still they got caught dumping drilling mud over the side in the middle of the night. So what, they pay the fine. Sort of like some developers around her. Get caught breaking the law, pay the fine, just part of the cost of doing business.

Do you believe that China, India, Brazil, Mexico and Venezuela would be better stewards of the environment?