No offshore drilling

This is the United States. Florida should not be at the mercy of congress. They are breaking the law everyday,(IMO) they are supposed to only meet twice a year. I go to Tallahassee twice a year to meet with legislators (all of them) and the only one I have found that is for offshore drilling is Patronis. His views may have changed, he is for commercial fisherman. Show me the #'S. I am assuming your either an engineer or a lobbyist for some company or really in a world all to your own.

Because I don't happen to agree with your position, I now work for or am a lobbyist for the oil industry? Your organization could gain a little credibility (and maybe a little knowledge in the process) by inviting some guest speakers who are experts (both sides) on the issue of drilling off of Florida's coast to your next meeting. Ensure the speakers that it will be a fair, polite and open discussion. Then come back and tell us what you learned, and I'll listen and give it due consideration. In the meantime, I'll keep rolling my eyes which I'm sure is what the Legislators do (after you leave) after telling you whatever it is they think you want to hear.

You just hit the nail on the head. I see a major problem with society is they don't give a rats arse what happens tomorrow as long as they have today. Way too many people wasting way too much fossil fuels that have no clue that they are even part of the problem because that would require the use of precious brain cells they just can't spare.
Did I just say that! sorry

Be gentle please.

Wow, that post changed MY mind all right. I am a proud Democrat that almost voted for you. Thanks for the heads up on how you really feel about me and the members of my club.

You just hit the nail on the head. I see a major problem with society is they don't give a rats arse what happens tomorrow as long as they have today. Way too many people wasting way too much fossil fuels that have no clue that they are even part of the problem because that would require the use of precious brain cells they just can't spare.
Did I just say that! sorry

;-)

You just hit the nail on the head. I see a major problem with society is they don't give a rats arse what happens tomorrow as long as they have today. Way too many people wasting way too much fossil fuels that have no clue that they are even part of the problem because that would require the use of precious brain cells they just can't spare.
Did I just say that! sorry

Interesting you should say that. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if surfers on this thread were "wasting fossil fuels" by lugging their surf boards on top of automobiles to distant airports to fly off to far away places in order to catch the ultimate waves. Any of those here using "precious brain cells" on these surf trips care to fess up? BTW, I'd like to burn up some fossil fuel on that trip as well but I'm not hypocritical about it.

Wow, that post changed MY mind all right. I am a proud Democrat that almost voted for you. Thanks for the heads up on how you really feel about me and the members of my club.

WRobert, I didn't want to say it, but she took the thought out of my head. Making everything into an issue of politics (and/or religion) alienates a ton of people because it puts an us against them tone into the mix.

I am not a surfer. Wish I knew how though.
I do agree that there are a lot of activities that do consume a lot of fuel getting from here to there. And it fuels the US economy and it should stand to reason, should be protected.
This is where I agree with the person who posted that we should not complain about $5 a gallon gas if we continue these activities. We need to accept the price, or come up with alternatives.

I am not a surfer. Wish I knew how though.
I do agree that there are a lot of activities that do consume a lot of fuel getting from here to there. And it fuels the US economy and it should stand to reason, should be protected.
This is where I agree with the person who posted that we should not complain about $5 a gallon gas if we continue these activities. We need to accept the price, or come up with alternatives.

Here, here Ash and that brings us full circle. We need to agressively pursue alternatives but drill for oil domestically while we pursue and implement those alternatives which will take time.

Interesting you should say that. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if surfers on this thread were "wasting fossil fuels" by lugging their surf boards on top of automobiles to distant airports to fly off to far away places in order to catch the ultimate waves. Any of those here using "precious brain cells" on these surf trips care to fess up? BTW, I'd like to burn up some fossil fuel on that trip as well but I'm not hypocritical about it.

I think surfers are the first to admit that surf trips burn up a lot of fuel. If you follow surfing there are many movements in regards to this issue. But, how does this tie into drilling in the gulf. We don't need to drill in the gulf. Hello? You keep going back to your same point. I guarantee you I have a large carbon foot print. Not nearly as large as Al Gore (another issue) but it is large. I am fessing up. I also fessing up I am willing to pay more for gas if we can pass on drilling in the gulf. The point is we don't need to and it will not lower gas prices. I will print this for prosperity sake and if gas lowers because of drilling in the gulf, I will buy you a Prius.

Based on the idea that FL is so sensitive to tourism, couldn't the dollars slated to drill in the gulf be used to create the ability to process the crude under Montana and the Dakotas instead and just use what is presently capped?
No ships to crash into the rocks and we use domestic oil already drilled.
I know. I drilled it.

Because I don't happen to agree with your position, I now work for or am a lobbyist for the oil industry? Your organization could gain a little credibility (and maybe a little knowledge in the process) by inviting some guest speakers who are experts (both sides) on the issue of drilling off of Florida's coast to your next meeting. Ensure the speakers that it will be a fair, polite and open discussion. Then come back and tell us what you learned, and I'll listen and give it due consideration. In the meantime, I'll keep rolling my eyes which I'm sure is what the Legislators do (after you leave) after telling you whatever it is they think you want to hear.

Interesting, considering they have helped us in the past to get the Clean Oceans Bill and the No Net Loss bill passed with the help of Surfrider lobbyist. Most of the legislators know us from meeting with us year after year. As a matter of fact the clean oceans bill may be implementable in stopping the drilling in the first place. www.surfrider.org View attachment 10100 [ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=22924"]Clean Oceans Bill! - SoWal Beaches Forum[/ame]

Interesting, considering they have helped us in the past to get the Clean Oceans Bill and the No Net Loss bill passed with the help of Surfrider lobbyist. Most of the legislators know us from meeting with us year after year. As a matter of fact the clean oceans bill may be implementable in stopping the drilling in the first place. www.surfrider.org View attachment 10100 http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=22924

Nice to hear from you - are you an official spokesman for the group? If so, I would like to know the organization's official position on drilling off of the Florida coast. Is it no way, no how, under no circumstances, over our dead bodies, which seems to be the message of the original post, or is the organization flexible on location, methods, etc.? What are the compelling reasons for and against? Does the other side have any valid points or are the oil folks, as pointed out here by several of the posters, "greedy" corporate types bent on destruction of the environment? It's obvious what side of the fence I am on, but I'm not unreasonable like greenroom thinks but neither am I persuaded by pictures of poop and damaged rigs. My views are not easily swayed by dog and pony shows. I've seen enough of them in a previous life. BTW, this argument about all of this lease acreage already available for drilling is total BS talking points - if there was a profitable deposit in that area, the companies would be drilling WITHOUT A DOUBT!

Nice to hear from you - are you an official spokesman for the group? If so, I would like to know the organization's official position on drilling off of the Florida coast. Is it no way, no how, under no circumstances, over our dead bodies, which seems to be the message of the original post, or is the organization flexible on location, methods, etc.? What are the compelling reasons for and against? Does the other side have any valid points or are the oil folks, as pointed out here by several of the posters, "greedy" corporate types bent on destruction of the environment? It's obvious what side of the fence I am on, but I'm not unreasonable like greenroom thinks but neither am I persuaded by pictures of poop and damaged rigs. My views are not easily swayed by dog and pony shows. I've seen enough of them in a previous life. BTW, this argument about all of this lease acreage already available for drilling is total BS talking points - if there was a profitable deposit in that area, the companies would be drilling WITHOUT A DOUBT!

http://www.surfrider.org/press_releases.aspx?PR_Id=247

I don't think they are bent on the destruction of the environment. I just don't think they care about it as much as we do. I don't think they see or listen to the fact it is already damaged. I don't think they take their kids to play in it every day. I think they are disconnected from reality and only see dollar signs. I also think if you think it is a dog and pony show you are disconnected from what is happening to our ecosystems. Why do you even think there is an argument about drilling in the first place? If we could possibly be causing more harm to our waterways shouldn't we only be looking at alternative solutions? We don't get a do over here! BTW, the pictures of poop are a reality. It was wide open and cranking just outside of Miami (another issue). What does poop have to do with oil? Poor planning and short sighted vision by folks that were telling us we really don't know what we are talking about. If we rely on people that say they are in the know or "related to engineers" we end up repeating the same mistakes over and over again. BTW, this is also my second life. My first life I would have been all for the drilling in the gulf. Thank god I woke up.

Nice to hear from you - are you an official spokesman for the group? If so, I would like to know the organization's official position on drilling off of the Florida coast. Is it no way, no how, under no circumstances, over our dead bodies, which seems to be the message of the original post, or is the organization flexible on location, methods, etc.? What are the compelling reasons for and against? Does the other side have any valid points or are the oil folks, as pointed out here by several of the posters, "greedy" corporate types bent on destruction of the environment? It's obvious what side of the fence I am on, but I'm not unreasonable like greenroom thinks but neither am I persuaded by pictures of poop and damaged rigs. My views are not easily swayed by dog and pony shows. I've seen enough of them in a previous life. BTW, this argument about all of this lease acreage already available for drilling is total BS talking points - if there was a profitable deposit in that area, the companies would be drilling WITHOUT A DOUBT!

The first initial post was sent to all Panhandle Chapter members from our Regional manager. Based on that, it would be Surfriders position on the matter. If you need info on our mission and purpose see www.surfrider.org

http://www.surfrider.org/press_releases.aspx?PR_Id=247

I don't think they are bent on the destruction of the environment. I just don't think they care about it as much as we do. I don't think they see or listen to the fact it is already damaged. I don't think they take their kids to play in it every day. I think they are disconnected from reality and only see dollar signs. I also think if you think it is a dog and pony show you are disconnected from what is happening to our ecosystems. Why do you even think there is an argument about drilling in the first place? If we could possibly be causing more harm to our waterways shouldn't we only be looking at alternative solutions? We don't get a do over here! BTW, the pictures of poop are a reality. It was wide open and cranking just outside of Miami (another issue). What does poop have to do with oil? Poor planning and short sighted vision by folks that were telling us we really don't know what we are talking about. If we rely on people that say they are in the know or "related to engineers" we end up repeating the same mistakes over and over again. BTW, this is also my second life. My first life I would have been all for the drilling in the gulf. Thank god I woke up.

When the environmentalists in California are more reasonable than the good folks at Florida Surfrider, then you know something is amiss. Science shows that natural seepage from Mother Earth is responsible for 4 times the amount of oil in our waterways (with the un-natural amount mostly the result of runoff from highways). Don't you think it's pretty ballsy for you guys to omit that fact when urging people to contact Legislators to oppose drilling? Why not disclose all of the facts and the pros and cons and let intelligent people make up their own minds. Otherwise, it's looks no better than anyone else's propaganda, including the oil companies.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121581714417147413.html

When the environmentalists in California are more reasonable than the good folks at Florida Surfrider, then you know something is amiss. Science shows that natural seepage from Mother Earth is responsible for 4 times the amount of oil in our waterways (with the un-natural amount mostly the result of runoff from highways). Don't you think it's pretty ballsy for you guys to omit that fact when urging people to contact Legislators to oppose drilling? Why not disclose all of the facts and the pros and cons and let intelligent people make up their own minds. Otherwise, it's looks no better than anyone else's propaganda, including the oil companies.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121581714417147413.html

Surfrider Foundation is not the only group opposed to drilling in the gulf. I would bet that GOO is opposed to drilling in the gulf. Like your link states they struck a deal. I think the best part about your link is they were getting drilling shoved down their throat and the only way to make it slow down was a compromise. Here is the best part:
It made numerous concessions to the local environmental groups that would curtail drilling in about a decade --
You make it sound like they were all just thrilled about it.
It kind of brings me back to the poop picture. You know how they got them to close it off? First of all the reefs and coral began to die in the area and many environmentalist felt it was because the poop in the pic. Those in "the know" said there was no scientific evidence supporting the poop being the problem. There is no scientific evidence because no base line was ever established. So the environmental group convinced them they could make money off the poop if they recycle/reclaim it and use it on golf courses and public areas. Those in "the know" took the bait and closed off the drain for a period TBD. The environmental group took action and began to monitor the coral to develop a base line. My point, sometimes the game has to be played in order to get the result you are looking for. Especially, when you are up against big business.

When the environmentalists in California are more reasonable than the good folks at Florida Surfrider, then you know something is amiss. Science shows that natural seepage from Mother Earth is responsible for 4 times the amount of oil in our waterways (with the un-natural amount mostly the result of runoff from highways). Don't you think it's pretty ballsy for you guys to omit that fact when urging people to contact Legislators to oppose drilling? Why not disclose all of the facts and the pros and cons and let intelligent people make up their own minds. Otherwise, it's looks no better than anyone else's propaganda, including the oil companies.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121581714417147413.html

BTW, how do you get one group called GOO representing all environmentalist in California? That article may be the propaganda we both are worried about.

BTW, how do you get one group called GOO representing all environmentalist in California? That article may be the propaganda we both are worried about.

Seriously Bobby - did you know that the vast majority of oil in our waterways was natural seepage (something like 62 million gallons annually)? I didn't know that but thought it was an interesting fact. The counter seems to be that Mother Earth does not discharge a large concentration in a single location. Did you know that Katrina and Rita only resulted in a discharge of 17,000 gallons in the Gulf? I have to confess that 17,000 gallons in the entire Gulf seems pretty minuscule when the Earth itself discharges 62,000,000 annually into our waterways. In fact, if my math is right, the equivalent of 17,000 gallons a day for the entire year continuing for a decade would be required to equal the amount of natural seepage annually. Doesn't this fact require some coherent explanation from the organization before we scare the bejeezus out of Floridians with claims of environmental Armageddon?

Seriously Bobby - did you know that the vast majority of oil in our waterways was natural seepage (something like 62 million gallons annually)? I didn't know that but thought it was an interesting fact. The counter seems to be that Mother Earth does not discharge a large concentration in a single location. Did you know that Katrina and Rita only resulted in a discharge of 17,000 gallons in the Gulf? I have to confess that 17,000 gallons in the entire Gulf seems pretty minuscule when the Earth itself discharges 62,000,000 annually into our waterways. In fact, if my math is right, the equivalent of 17,000 gallons a day for the entire year continuing for a decade would be required to equal the amount of natural seepage annually. Doesn't this fact require some coherent explanation from the organization before we scare the bejeezus out of Floridians with claims of environmental Armageddon?

I will stick with mother nature on this one.
I think she can handle her own seepage. We live in a scary world when we begin to think that we are above the eb and flow of mother earth. That is what should be scaring people.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/27/jindal-katrina-oil-spill/

I will stick with mother nature on this one.
I think she can handle her own seepage. We live in a scary world when we begin to think that we are above the eb and flow of mother earth. That is what should be scaring people.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/27/jindal-katrina-oil-spill/

This is not a very compelling argument from a group whose members live primarily in the most disaster prone areas in the country. Shouldn't the science produced by NASA and the Smithsonian be addressed - or do we only point to the science when it involves arguments about global warming?

This is not a very compelling argument from a group whose members live primarily in the most disaster prone areas in the country. Shouldn't the science produced by NASA and the Smithsonian be addressed - or do we only point to the science when it involves arguments about global warming?

Not sure. Lets not look at the group that lives in the area? My concern with our waterways comes from living it. I don't need a study from NASA to tell me the climate and coastline are changing.

I would say the link is more compelling then the last spin/link you posted stating environmentalist were for drilling in CA.

Not sure. Lets not look at the group that lives in the area? My concern with our waterways comes from living it. I don't need a study from NASA to tell me the climate and coastline are changing.

I would say the link is more compelling then the last spin/link you posted stating environmentalist were for drilling in CA.

We're in luck. I pick up a Walton Sun today and lo and behold ............ a symposium on the pros and cons of Florida off-shore drilling hosted by the Florida Association of Convention and Visitors Bureau at the Sandestin Hilton, September 11, 2008 from 9:00 am to 4:00 pm. No speakers from the Surfriders but certainly some should attend so that we can try to find some common ground, or at least, a better understanding of each other's views. BTW, I didn't say we shouldn't listen to surfers, I said it's not a compelling argument that we shouldn't think "we are above the eb and flow of mother earth" coming from people who primarily live in hurricane and earthquake prone areas - the very definition of people who think they can live above the "eb and flow".

I knew you would like that "Eb and flow" line. I reread that and I really liked it too. I will not be able to attend the meeting as my partner is out with a family crisis but I would bet there will be a few members showing. They are everywhere!
I look forward to learning more on this issue and thank you for debating with me.

I knew you would like that "Eb and flow" line. I reread that and I really liked it too. I will not be able to attend the meeting as my partner is out with a family crisis but I would bet there will be a few members showing. They are everywhere!
I look forward to learning more on this issue and thank you for debating with me.

Sorry to hear that - hope all turns out well.

How is it that people want to install more oil rigs in the Hurricane-Prone Gulf? Don't you guys see the prices of oil increase when the Gulf is threatened with Hurricanes? Building more rigs won't decrease the price of gas, and even if it did, can't you see that it doesn't solve the problem of reliance on oil. It is much like welfare -- it helps some people get back on their feet, but many become hooked on welfare, rather than looking for new source of income. Many people get hooked on low gas prices, rather than allowing the market to do it's thing. If the price of oil rises high enough, people will demand new sources of energy technology and with the higher demand and usage, prices of those sources will decrease by scale.