Vote No on 2

swampfox, my faith is unquestionable, but thanks for checking. As is yours, which you feel you have reminded us with almost every post. It's quaint at the beginning, but after a while becomes tiring, and then one loses readership due to overload. One of the great parts about my faith is that I don't have to espouse it at every turn. It is strong enough within me and my God doesn't require me to preach to all. He's also fine with me supporting No on 2. Carry on.

swampfox, my faith is unquestionable, but thanks for checking. As is yours, which you feel you have reminded us with almost every post. It's quaint at the beginning, but after a while becomes tiring, and then one loses readership due to overload. One of the great parts about my faith is that I don't have to espouse it at every turn. It is strong enough within me and my God doesn't require me to preach to all. He's also fine with me supporting No on 2. Carry on.

I really am sad for you. And oh by the way your efforts to silence me through insults really is pitful

Insults? where?

not trying to silence you, I just glaze over at your lengthy posts. good luck.

Timeline of Bible Translation History

1,400 BC: The first written Word of God: The Ten Commandments delivered to Moses.
500 BC: Completion of All Original Hebrew Manuscripts which make up The 39 Books of the Old Testament.
200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.
1st Century AD: Completion of All Original Greek Manuscripts which make up The 27 Books of the New Testament.
315 AD: Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.
382 AD: Jerome's Latin Vulgate Manuscripts Produced which contain All 80 Books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).
500 AD: Scriptures have been Translated into Over 500 Languages.
600 AD: LATIN was the Only Language Allowed for Scripture.
995 AD: Anglo-Saxon (Early Roots of English Language) Translations of The New Testament Produced.
1384 AD: Wycliffe is the First Person to Produce a (Hand-Written) manuscript Copy of the Complete Bible; All 80 Books.
1455 AD: Gutenberg Invents the Printing Press; Books May Now be mass-Produced Instead of Individually Hand-Written. The First Book Ever Printed is Gutenberg's Bible in Latin.
1516 AD: Erasmus Produces a Greek/Latin Parallel New Testament.
1522 AD: Martin Luther's German New Testament.
1526 AD: William Tyndale's New Testament; The First New Testament printed in the English Language.
1535 AD: Myles Coverdale's Bible; The First Complete Bible printed in the English Language (80 Books: O.T. & N.T. & Apocrypha).
1537 AD: Tyndale-Matthews Bible; The Second Complete Bible printed in English. Done by John "Thomas Matthew" Rogers (80 Books).
1539 AD: The "Great Bible" Printed; The First English Language Bible Authorized for Public Use (80 Books).
1560 AD: The Geneva Bible Printed; The First English Language Bible to add Numbered Verses to Each Chapter (80 Books).
1568 AD: The Bishops Bible Printed; The Bible of which the King James was a Revision (80 Books).
1609 AD: The Douay Old Testament is added to the Rheims New Testament (of 1582) Making the First Complete English Catholic Bible; Translated from the Latin Vulgate (80 Books).
1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.
1782 AD: Robert Aitken's Bible; The First English Language Bible (KJV) Printed in America.
1791 AD: Isaac Collins and Isaiah Thomas Respectively Produce the First Family Bible and First Illustrated Bible Printed in America. Both were King James Versions, with All 80 Books.
1808 AD: Jane Aitken's Bible (Daughter of Robert Aitken); The First Bible to be Printed by a Woman.
1833 AD: Noah Webster's Bible; After Producing his Famous Dictionary, Webster Printed his Own Revision of the King James Bible.
1841 AD: English Hexapla New Testament; an Early Textual Comparison showing the Greek and 6 Famous English Translations in Parallel Columns.
1846 AD: The Illuminated Bible; The Most Lavishly Illustrated Bible printed in America. A King James Version, with All 80 Books.
1885 AD: The "English Revised Version" Bible; The First Major English Revision of the KJV.
1901 AD: The "American Standard Version"; The First Major American Revision of the KJV.
1971 AD: The "New American Standard Bible" (NASB) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Word for Word English Translation" of the Bible.
1973 AD: The "New International Version" (NIV) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Phrase for Phrase English Translation" of the Bible.
1982 AD: The "New King James Version" (NKJV) is Published as a "Modern English Version Maintaining the Original Style of the King James."
2002 AD: The English Standard Version (ESV) is Published as a translation to bridge the gap between the accuracy of the NASB and the readability of the NIV.

A vast majority of Theologians agree that Bible is not meant to be taken word for word. Before the written word was written it was passed as an oral tradition. We have all played the game when we were children when we sit in a circle and pass a secret to our neighbor and by the time we get back to the origin of the secret it in no way resembles the original. Swamp, you have faith and passion which I commend, but compassion for fellow man is a pillar of civilized society. I myself am a huge beleiver in equality for all, including those I do not see eye to eye with. If your individual rights were in jeopardy I would stand by your side. I am not trying to convince you that I am right, or to change your mind, just to see that there is another view. P E A C E.

Florida Proposition #2 PDF Print E-mail
Written by ACLU - Florida
Saturday, 27 September 2008 01:36

There are only four and a half weeks until the polls close in Florida, and our work to defeat proposed Amendment 2 is in full swing. If Amendment 2 passes, it would dramatically impact unmarried straight couples, including many seniors, who represent a significant portion of the 360,000 cohabitating couples in Florida. Without domestic partnership registries, partners who have not gone through a more complex and costly process of executing additional legal documents are, in the eyes of the law, strangers to each other. The impact on seniors is particularly significant given the crucial healthcare and other decisions that one partner may be making for the other partner in the later years of life.

One very important element of our campaign to defeat Amendment 2 in Florida is the collection of stories from Floridians. We need to put a name and face to our campaign whenever possible. In particular, we invite those who have enrolled on a local domestic partnership registry, especially seniors, to write to us about your story.

Many seniors who chose not to remarry in order to avoid the loss of social security and pensions from a previous marriage have enrolled on a local domestic partnership registry. Currently the following Florida cities and counties have domestic partnership registries:

* Gainesville
* Key West
* Miami Beach
* West Palm Beach
* Palm Beach County
* Broward County

Timeline of Bible Translation History

1,400 BC: The first written Word of God: The Ten Commandments delivered to Moses.
500 BC: Completion of All Original Hebrew Manuscripts which make up The 39 Books of the Old Testament.
200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.
1st Century AD: Completion of All Original Greek Manuscripts which make up The 27 Books of the New Testament.
315 AD: Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.
382 AD: Jerome's Latin Vulgate Manuscripts Produced which contain All 80 Books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).
500 AD: Scriptures have been Translated into Over 500 Languages.
600 AD: LATIN was the Only Language Allowed for Scripture.
995 AD: Anglo-Saxon (Early Roots of English Language) Translations of The New Testament Produced.
1384 AD: Wycliffe is the First Person to Produce a (Hand-Written) manuscript Copy of the Complete Bible; All 80 Books.
1455 AD: Gutenberg Invents the Printing Press; Books May Now be mass-Produced Instead of Individually Hand-Written. The First Book Ever Printed is Gutenberg's Bible in Latin.
1516 AD: Erasmus Produces a Greek/Latin Parallel New Testament.
1522 AD: Martin Luther's German New Testament.
1526 AD: William Tyndale's New Testament; The First New Testament printed in the English Language.
1535 AD: Myles Coverdale's Bible; The First Complete Bible printed in the English Language (80 Books: O.T. & N.T. & Apocrypha).
1537 AD: Tyndale-Matthews Bible; The Second Complete Bible printed in English. Done by John "Thomas Matthew" Rogers (80 Books).
1539 AD: The "Great Bible" Printed; The First English Language Bible Authorized for Public Use (80 Books).
1560 AD: The Geneva Bible Printed; The First English Language Bible to add Numbered Verses to Each Chapter (80 Books).
1568 AD: The Bishops Bible Printed; The Bible of which the King James was a Revision (80 Books).
1609 AD: The Douay Old Testament is added to the Rheims New Testament (of 1582) Making the First Complete English Catholic Bible; Translated from the Latin Vulgate (80 Books).
1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.
1782 AD: Robert Aitken's Bible; The First English Language Bible (KJV) Printed in America.
1791 AD: Isaac Collins and Isaiah Thomas Respectively Produce the First Family Bible and First Illustrated Bible Printed in America. Both were King James Versions, with All 80 Books.
1808 AD: Jane Aitken's Bible (Daughter of Robert Aitken); The First Bible to be Printed by a Woman.
1833 AD: Noah Webster's Bible; After Producing his Famous Dictionary, Webster Printed his Own Revision of the King James Bible.
1841 AD: English Hexapla New Testament; an Early Textual Comparison showing the Greek and 6 Famous English Translations in Parallel Columns.
1846 AD: The Illuminated Bible; The Most Lavishly Illustrated Bible printed in America. A King James Version, with All 80 Books.
1885 AD: The "English Revised Version" Bible; The First Major English Revision of the KJV.
1901 AD: The "American Standard Version"; The First Major American Revision of the KJV.
1971 AD: The "New American Standard Bible" (NASB) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Word for Word English Translation" of the Bible.
1973 AD: The "New International Version" (NIV) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Phrase for Phrase English Translation" of the Bible.
1982 AD: The "New King James Version" (NKJV) is Published as a "Modern English Version Maintaining the Original Style of the King James."
2002 AD: The English Standard Version (ESV) is Published as a translation to bridge the gap between the accuracy of the NASB and the readability of the NIV.

A vast majority of Theologians agree that Bible is not meant to be taken word for word. Before the written word was written it was passed as an oral tradition. We have all played the game when we were children when we sit in a circle and pass a secret to our neighbor and by the time we get back to the origin of the secret it in no way resembles the original. Swamp, you have faith and passion which I commend, but compassion for fellow man is a pillar of civilized society. I myself am a huge beleiver in equality for all, including those I do not see eye to eye with. If your individual rights were in jeopardy I would stand by your side. I am not trying to convince you that I am right, or to change your mind, just to see that there is another view. P E A C E.

Well we tried to discredit the bible by some how showing that there were errors with in, when that didnt work. We attempt to dicredit it through its history. Im glad to see you are quite the historian. My rights are under attack by Orginizations like the ACLU. Ive said it before You want gay marriage call it civil union not MARRIAGE. In calling it marriage........ its not because again for the 100 billinth time, Marriage is between a man and woman, you sir are attacking christianity, and twisting a term we hold dear. Call it civil union and leave the word marriage for that in which it is meant. So far since ive been alive :


What used to be called murder is now called choice
ACLU wants to take CHRIST out of CHRISTMAS
ACLU demands the boyscouts ( a private orginization ) to take GOD out of the oath ( does this sound like seperation of church and state?)
ACLU demands the 10 commandments to come off of court house walls even though basic law 101 day 1 teaches you that the very foundation of our laws came right out of the bible.
The "state" stepped in and said that I cant take bible class in school as an elective. Thats not seperation either.
So dont talk to me about my civil rights being leaned on. PEACE


EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS, but you are taking a sacred word from Christians and twisting it into something foul to get it. Use the new word for that. And the thing about scholars........ smart they may be, but they are still man and born of sin and are imperfect.

Well we tried to discredit the bible by some how showing that there were errors with in, when that didnt work. We attempt to dicredit it through its history. Im glad to see you are quite the historian. My rights are under attack by Orginizations like the ACLU. Ive said it before You want gay marriage call it civil union not MARRIAGE. In calling it marriage........ its not because again for the 100 billinth time, Marriage is between a man and woman, you sir are attacking christianity, and twisting a term we hold dear. Call it civil union and leave the word marriage for that in which it is meant. So far since ive been alive :


What used to be called murder is now called choice
ACLU wants to take CHRIST out of CHRISTMAS
ACLU demands the boyscouts ( a private orginization ) to take GOD out of the oath ( does this sound like seperation of church and state?)
ACLU demands the 10 commandments to come off of court house walls even though basic law 101 day 1 teaches you that the very foundation of our laws came right out of the bible.
The "state" stepped in and said that I cant take bible class in school as an elective. Thats not seperation either.
So dont talk to me about my civil rights being leaned on. PEACE


EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS, but you are taking a sacred word from Christians and twisting it into something foul to get it. Use the new word for that. And the thing about scholars........ smart they may be, but they are still man and born of sin and are imperfect.

I am a Christian, and I do not appreciate your speaking on my behalf.

swampfox

Do you even really understand what Prop 2 does? You harp about having your rights removed but that is exactly what this amendment proposes for so many Americans (and not just gay "sinners" but "sinners" of all kinds).

The ballot language says, "This amendment protects marriage as the legal union of only one man and one woman as husband and wife and provides that no other legal union that is treated as marriage or the substantial equivalent thereof shall be valid or recognized."

Two existing Florida statutes prohibit same-sex marriage:
Florida Statute 741.212(1) defines marriage as the legal union between one man and one woman and provides that the term "spouse" applies only to a member of such union (FL. Stat. 741.212(1),(3)).

Florida also adopted a Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) in 1997 which was codified as Florida Statute 741.212.

The amendment as written includes a clause prohibiting judges from overturning the law. This is a response to what happened in Massachusetts, where a judge overturned that state's law banning same-sex marriage.[1]

Arguments in Support
In general, Florida's religious community is strongly in favor of the measure.
Supporters say the amendment would protect children by ensuring that only the form of marriage between a man and a woman would ever be celebrated in Florida.

The Florida statute that already provides for a single form of marriage could be overturned by a court on constitutional grounds.

The main argument supporters of the proposition are making is that if the amendment fails, school children could be indoctrinated in the gay lifestyle.


Arguments in opposition
The petition as acting as bait for the Presidential election in order to draw out conservative voters; there is already enough legislation in place currently.

Health care and pension benefit plans which cover unmarried couples, even heterosexual older couples, living together and which are now legally valid may be adversely affected.

Article I of the Florida Constitution, known as the Declaration of Rights, establishes rights, but this amendment would instead limit the right to marry.

There are already other Florida Laws that expressly prohibit homosexual unions, so this amendments purpose is much larger than that and if passed will be used to restrict all relationships that are not a legal marriage under Florida's Statutes.

Opponents say that elderly people in the state who, after being widowed, have subsequently chosen a domestic partnership in order to retain certain benefits, will be adversely impacted by the measure.

No one is attempting to remove your rights, but YOU are attempting to remove the rights from hundreds of thousands of Floridians by voting Yes, only because you unnecessarily feel threatened by gay marriage, which is already not recognized in Florida.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Florida_Marriage_Amendment_(2008)

I am a Christian, and I do not appreciate your speaking on my behalf.

Apparently we are not the right kind of Christians, and I love that mere mortals determine who are and are not Christians.:lol:

Apparently we are not the right kind of Christians, and I love that mere mortals determine who are and are not Christians.:lol:

Nail on head statement. All I can add is Amen.

Be sure and buckle your seatbelts and grab a cup of coffee...

If this thing doesn't pass Charlie Crist's wife is going to turn into a pillar of salt.:roll:

Apparently we are not the right kind of Christians, and I love that mere mortals determine who are and are not Christians.:lol:

Well then sir its not my place to say that, My question is what Bible do you read from, must not be the same bible I read from. The question isnt whose right and whos wrong, I really dont care about that. Its a matter that it is very CLEAR in the Bible on how one is to live. If you want to make up your own rules to go by then fine. But you shouldnt be dragging others down with you. I am on here as a Christian who prays for this country hours on end, and studies my Bible, and understands CLEARLY GODS position on gay marriage becasuse once again its noted throughout the Bible. But you sir only take the parts that appeal to you and continue to live as you do and I will be sad for you and pray for you. That is all I can do.

Well then sir its not my place to say that, My question is what Bible do you read from, must not be the same bible I read from. The question isnt whose right and whos wrong, I really dont care about that. Its a matter that it is very CLEAR in the Bible on how one is to live. If you want to make up your own rules to go by then fine. But you shouldnt be dragging others down with you. I am on here as a Christian who prays for this country hours on end, and studies my Bible, and understands CLEARLY GODS position on gay marriage becasuse once again its noted throughout the Bible. But you sir only take the parts that appeal to you and continue to live as you do and I will be sad for you and pray for you. That is all I can do.

I mean no disrespect, but maybe the best thing for you is to live your life as you see fit and stop judging how others live.

Well then sir its not my place to say that, My question is what Bible do you read from, must not be the same bible I read from.

Thank you for demonstrating my point Swamp. I am not trying to discredit the Bible, or any Bible, just illustrating that it is not a perfect work as you have claimed. Based on the latest census this amendment will adversely affect more of your heterosexual christian brothers than any one else.

I on my way to the Polls!!:wave::wave::wave:

If you feel strongly about this, it's important to get everyone out to vote. This amendment is borderline passing at this point.

Love it or hate it, most Florida voters have made up their minds about a ballot amendment to ban same-sex marriage.

And they?re more likely to enshrine the definition of marriage in the state?s formative document, while two others intended to protect conservation lands and give tax breaks to waterfront businesses also have a fighting chance.

A new poll commissioned for the Orlando Sentinel found Amendment 2, which seeks to enshrine a definition of marriage, held 56 percent support among voters less than two weeks out from the election, while 37 percent opposed it.

That leaves the remaining 7 percent of undecided voters to determine if it reaches the 60-percent threshold for amending Florida?s Constitution.

History suggests it will pass -- because undecided voters have tended to break in favor of gay-marriage bans in other states, according to Brad Coker, polling director for Mason-Dixon Polling and Research. The firm surveyed 625 registered voters Monday and Tuesday, and has a 4 percent margin for error.

Man - you all are so PATIENT!!! God bless you all:blush: - I am outta here and will obviously vote NO

There are many variations, interpretations, and revisions to the Bible. It is being interpreted every day currently. The New King James Bible is one of many. Swampfox, clearly you have your own interpretation which you feel is far superior to everyone else's on this board. And, you show disdain for all who do not meet your self imposed holiness. It seems to me, after having to endure all your posts, you are flirting with one of the seven deadly sins, Pride. WHO are you to judge? Isn't God the judge? Are you the only one on this board who has a relationship with the Lord? Is everyone else here wrong?

I say get rid of marriage altogether. It only seems to screw up most people's lives. People have gotten pretty lousy at making/keeping commitments.

Swampfox, your postings might get taken a little more seriously if you looked them over for editing and spelling corrections before you hit the Enter key.

Saw some folks putting out yes signs on west 20 today. Kind of late in the game. Interesting.

There are many variations, interpretations, and revisions to the Bible. It is being interpreted every day currently. The New King James Bible is one of many. Swampfox, clearly you have your own interpretation which you feel is far superior to everyone else's on this board. And, you show disdain for all who do not meet your self imposed holiness. It seems to me, after having to endure all your posts, you are flirting with one of the seven deadly sins, Pride. WHO are you to judge? Isn't God the judge? Are you the only one on this board who has a relationship with the Lord? Is everyone else here wrong?

Who have I judged? Find me one quote wherE I have judged. Its clear to those who read the bible ( any reconized revision that you can find, where GOD stands on sin. If you know me then you would clearly be able to tell that I am not a proud man. Havent I been picked on for my spelling and grammer? You are the only one that knows if you have a relationship with GOD and what kind of relationship you have. As a Christian we are charged by GOD to share his word and not mislead. By me quoting the Bible I am not Judging or name calling. I am stating what the Bible says. Im sorry if you feel judged by my quoting the of Bible. I am not perfect my sin is no greater or less then yours. But I am not the one on here tring to justify a sin. I am speaking out against sin. I need GOD more then anything. Before you accuse me of judging you really need to read all my posts. No where any where have I judged. Its only my place to love you and have compassion for you 1 COR 13. Its one of my biggest verses.

I do understand however the HATE, that other so called christians have expressed, when adressing homsexuality. Just beacuse I come to you as a christian and I quote from a PERFECT Book(no matter how old it is, you cant find fault in it) Does not mean that I share their entire message. There is only one great sin and its not sexual immorality. All the others are the same. I am guilty of turning my back on GOD and embrasing sexual immorality. But as I grew in my relationship with GOD I also realized how empty my sexual immorality actually is. And now with my wife as I know her, Nothing that is immoral can compare. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD. and to the accuser ( Satan) who uses our sin to condem us I rebuke him in the name of JESUS right now. To ask one who has lived a perfect life to come and preach, is 2008 years too late. All we have now is Generals from the battlefield of the world to bring into light the truth. And the the other is gift of the Holy Spirit.


IF ANYONE FEELS AS THOUGH I WAS JUDGMENTAL, I AM SORRY. PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE MY STRONG CONVICTIONS WITH JUGMENTALISM. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. I AM IN NO POSITION TO CAST THE FIRST STONE, HOWEVER I AM IN A POSITION AS CHARGED BY CHRIST TO SHARE THE TRUTH. VOTE YES ON ADMENDMENT # 2

Now if we arguing in a religous perspective as many posts have on the contrary to my posts, can we find anywhere in the bible where homosexuality is approved of? Can we find anywhere in the bible where a marriage is not refered to as a union between Christ and his Church, or a union between a man and a woman. in pointing these FACTS out in support of the truth I am not being judgmental, but I will apploigize for it none the less, because I am not proud.

your conviction is resolute. you will vote as you choose. everyone will vote as they choose. in the end, it's as simple as that.

Who have I judged? Find me one quote wherE I have judged. Its clear to those who read the bible ( any reconized revision that you can find, where GOD stands on sin. If you know me then you would clearly be able to tell that I am not a proud man. Havent I been picked on for my spelling and grammer? You are the only one that knows if you have a relationship with GOD and what kind of relationship you have. As a Christian we are charged by GOD to share his word and not mislead. By me quoting the Bible I am not Judging or name calling. I am stating what the Bible says. Im sorry if you feel judged by my quoting the of Bible. I am not perfect my sin is no greater or less then yours. But I am not the one on here tring to justify a sin.

Who says it's a sin? I don't think it's a sin. I don't even believe in the concept of 'sin'. Do you have a problem with that?

Now if we arguing in a religous perspective as many posts have on the contrary to my posts, can we find anywhere in the bible where homosexuality is approved of? Can we find anywhere in the bible where a marriage is not refered to as a union between Christ and his Church, or a union between a man and a woman. in pointing these FACTS out in support of the truth I am not being judgmental, but I will apploigize for it none the less, because I am not proud.

If I don't follow your religion, how can you justify forcing its rules upon me?