Two local state parks on closure list
Deer Lake and Yellow River March Preserve would close indefinitely if Gov. Crist gives his OK
SANTA ROSA BEACH -Deer Lake State Park is among more than a dozen state parks that might be closed indefinitely next year because of Florida's financial crunch.
The possible closure of Deer Lake - named after one of the rare coastal dune lakes along the 26-mile Walton County coastline - and 18 other state parks comes after Gov. Charlie Crist directed all state agencies to cut 10 percent from their proposed 2009-10 budgets, said Jessica Kemper, public information officer for the Florida Parks Service.
Another park on the potential closure list is Yellow River Marsh Preserve State Park on County Road 191 in Santa Rosa County.
Kemper said Crist must approve the proposed cuts. If he does, the parks likely would close in July.
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/parks_12771___article.html/state_closed.html
Replies
263
Banned
Maybe I need to focus myself and hopefully our portion of the discussion to why I chose to jump in. The reason was simple, I do not believe that St. Joe participating on the WALTON COUNTY CDLAB will have any effect on the permanent opening and maintenance of a coastal dune lake located in another county. Moreover, I do not believe that there is any possibility that any other CDL located within Walton County's political borders is subject to permanent opening. Finally, if there is a movement in Bay County to permanently open and maintain the outfall at Lake Powell there will be a number of people that will fight it due to the downdrift impacts. In the state of Florida it is estimated that 85% of all beach erosion is caused by the opening and maintenance of existing inlets. There are a number of coastal engineers that will be able to clearly demonstrate the impacts that would occur due to this action.
As for EBSCO, they own the first beachfront property located west of the Bay/ Walton County line. It is undeveloped and totals 4.5 acres. It will definitely be within the erosional zone and they contract with a coastal engineer that will be able to clearly testify to the likely erosional impact if it comes to it. Like I said before Rosemary is a little further so it's a toss up.
The Coastal Dune Lake you are talking about is Lake Powell. Does the health and maintenance of Lake Powell fall under the jurisdiction of the Walton County Coastal Dune Lake Advisory Board?
Banned
Next Question
Next question. The Village of Inlet Beach AKA Rosemary Beach was founded and developed by Leucadia International. Later, Leucadia bought the land all around the CDL, Draper Lake. That developer was granted the intense density of the Draper Lake community by arguing that it owned not just the land above the current shoreline of Draper Lake, but also the submereged lands extending from the shore under the Coastal Dune Lake. They were able to successfully assert their claim of ownership and obtain residential unit allocation's over the protest of the citizens in attendance.
Again, sorry to be contrary to fairytale beliefs, but heavy handed developers will continue to push the limits of your beliefs through the system.
Next question. The Village of Inlet Beach AKA Rosemary Beach was founded and developed by Leucadia International. Later, Leucadia bought the land all around the CDL, Draper Lake. That developer was granted the intense density of the Draper Lake community by arguing that it owned not just the land above the current shoreline of Draper Lake, but also the submereged lands extending from the shore under the Coastal Dune Lake. They were able to successfully assert their claim of ownership and obtain residential unit allocation's over the protest of the citizens in attendance.
Again, sorry to be contrary to fairytale beliefs, but heavy handed developers will continue to push the limits of your beliefs through the system.
Beach Fanatic
The Coastal Dune Lake you are talking about is Lake Powell. Does the health and maintenance of Lake Powell fall under the jurisdiction of the Walton County Coastal Dune Lake Advisory Board?
A portion of the lake is Walton County. However, the health and maintenance of the lake is overseen through a management plan developed through a seperate group called the Lake Powell Community Alliance. Walton County may be a participant but the Alliance was the driving force and there is a seperate management plan. I believe the management plan was approved in Bay County, not Walton County but am not positive.
The management plan included criteria as to opening the outfall and led to the issuance of a standing permit with FDEP as to how the outfall is managed. As someone discussed earlier, these permits are based on a trigger elevation due to health and safety risks due to high lake levels, not desire to egress and ingress the lake, submerged boat docks, etc.
Moreover, the permitted outfall location is located within the political boundaries of Bay County, and Walton County has no management authority of the outfall location in our neighboring county. In this case, I believe Camp Helen is the outfall opening location and timing of openings is coordinated by the state parks.
Beach Fanatic
Next question. The Village of Inlet Beach AKA Rosemary Beach was founded and developed by Leucadia International. Later, Leucadia bought the land all around the CDL, Draper Lake. That developer was granted the intense density of the Draper Lake community by arguing that it owned not just the land above the current shoreline of Draper Lake, but also the submereged lands extending from the shore under the Coastal Dune Lake. They were able to successfully assert their claim of ownership and obtain residential unit allocation's over the protest of the citizens in attendance.
Again, sorry to be contrary to fairytale beliefs, but heavy handed developers will continue to push the limits of your beliefs through the system.
I understand your concerns with heavy handed developers but there are still certain issues that would have to be resolved prior to any construction seaward of the coastal construction control line. In these cases of permanent lake openings for the size needed for boat traffic, it would be impossible to document a health and safety need since an emergency permit is available if the lake needs to be opened temporarily. Moreover, they would have to address impacts caused by downdrift erosion, shorebird nesting habitat, sea turtle nesting habitat, and the easily documented concerns of a number of individual property owners that would go crazy in Old Florida Beach as they would be the downdrift owners that would be immediately affected by erosion.
I understand through some of your other posts and threads in the past your issues with developers; however, in this limited case, I continue to stand by my assertion that a permanent lake outfall with structures would not be permitted at any lake in Walton County where St. Joe has property.
Beach Fanatic
With the enormity of the state's budget, it's hard to imagine that closing one tiny little state park will have ANY useful impact whatsoever. Let's don't use the small government argument as a proxy for opening up that property to development.
TreeFrog, although I realize that this is a small amount, but the State is cutting area that are of more concern to me than saving a park. Both State and local governments have had to make cuts. I would prefer that all these parks stay open, and I although I appreciate that there are some who don't have a problem with paying for this through their tax dollars, I really don't see this as the most important issue facing the state. We have special needs kids and home bound folks who chose not to be placed in a nursing home, but the state has cut funding for in home health care service. It cost more to place a person who only needs assistance in home than placing them in a nursing home. Their are those who feel we over spend on schools, and are happy with reducing wasteful spending, or spending in general. We find the state reducing the amount of monies back to local governments, so that burden falls to the local taxpayer. Well, we have local government officials who want to purchase propert in the county when we should be avoiding wasteful spending and taking property off the tax rolls. People before property when it comes to tax cuts.
SoWal Expert
From the SWCC:
Dear SWCC Member,
I have received several emails and phone calls expressing concern about the potential closure of Deer Lake State Park. I have spoken with both local park officials and the state about the proposal. At the end of this email is a public memo provided by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. (FDEP)
Here is a synopsis of what I have been told or found through research. As we all already know, the state is experiencing a financial crunch and must cut expenses. In an effort to cut expenses yet retain employees, 19 parks are being proposed for a temporary closure. Eight of the 19 parks slated for closure are in the Florida Panhandle. Here is a geographic breakdown of the proposed closures using the FDEP park region designations:
NW FL (16 counties) 33 parks total 8 to be closed 24% proposed closure of total parks in region
NE FL (17 counties)39 parks total 4 to be closed 10%
Central (13 counties) 26 parks 3 to be closed 12%
SW FL (13 counties 32 parks 2 to be closed 6%
SE FL (8 counties) 23 parks 2 to be closed 9%
According to state officials, Deer Lake is being proposed for closure on the basis that (1) it receives a small amount of use relative to the expenses of operating it and (2) it generates no revenue. This rationale is disturbing. One problem is that there is no documentation by which to ascertain how much the park is in fact being used. Deer Lake State Park does not have a visitation kiosk in which users can register. In the other parks, (Topsail, Grayton, Eden, etc) there is a day fee with a registration form. In essence, as was acknowledged by the state, there are no actual records which quantify public use of this park. It is being estimated and assumed it is not well used.
Secondly, I was initially told the operating budget for Deer Lake was around $44,000. I have received a copy of the breakdown of the operating expenses for Deer Lake for 2007-08. It breaks down as follows:
Expense Breakdown Amt. (Approx)
Phone Bills $349.33
Freight 10.00
Repairs $1,455.96
Electric Bill 605.72
Water & Sewer 242.04
Road Maintenance 610.24
Minor Tools 297.46
Parts & Fittings 157.69
Gas 1,675.43
Field Supplies 275.09
Uniform 75.00
TOTAL: $5,753.87
I have received further confirmation that it costs $5,753.87 to operate the park. Note: Grayton Beach State Park maintains Deer Lake Park and provides ranger service.
The other parks in the area charge a day fee which helps defray some of the operating expenses. While there is some discussion of assessing a day fee to help with Deer Lake in the future, according to the state officials I have spoken to, there does not appear to be any discussion of assessing a day fee as an alternative to closure. In other parks, the day fee works off an ?honor? box. No ranger is needed to collect the fee.
If in fact the operating expenses are so minimal, it would seem the imposition of a day fee and/or a fundraising drive could produce the funds to keep the park open. The closing of a gulf front park with its contribution to tourism and local year-round use should be a last resort if alternatives to help cover the operating costs are not possible. I would be interested in knowing whether our membership would be willing to pay a day fee (typically $2-3) to use the park. Please give me your thoughts.
The timing and procedure work like this: FDEP must make a recommendation of closure to the Governor?s office. If the Governor approves the closures, the proposal must go to the state legislature. The legislative session is from February through May 1st. A decision must be made during that time frame. If the state legislature votes to adopt the FDEP proposal, the closing could take place the first of July with no fixed expiration. The park will be re-opened when it is deemed financially feasible.
Some fear has been expressed as to whether Deer Lake State Park may ultimately be sold to a private purchaser. The normal procedure for sale of a park would work like this: Title to the park is held in trust. The Trustee is the Board of Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund. The Florida Division of State Lands is the administering agency for the Trustees. Parks and Recreation (P & R) manages the parks.
The first step in selling a park would be for P & R to determine that the park serves no conservation or other public purpose and recommend it be designated as ?surplus? land. Before it is considered for surplus, a notice is sent to other state agencies and the county to determine if any other entity would want the parcel. If no one responds affirmatively, the parcel is released to the Trustees and goes before the ARC (Acquisition and Restoration Council). That committee decides whether the park should be surplused. The public can speak at the ARC meeting. The notice of the meeting is on the FEDP website.
If the ARC decides to surplus the park parcel, a notice for bids must be given to property owners within 500? and a notice will be given in the newspaper although the statute provides ?(4) Failure to provide the notice as set out in subsections (1) and (3) shall not invalidate the sale, exchange, lease, or easement.?
I cannot yet verify whether this is the procedure that would have to be used for Deer Lake State Park. Deer Lake is subject to an agreement between several agencies and St. Joe and I don?t know if the documents cover discontinuance of Deer Lake as a park.
The Division of Lands has assured me there is no intent to sell Deer Lake State Park. In addition to providing a wonderful ?old Florida? experience for locals and visitors, an important function of the park was to provide habitat for endangered species. Undoubtedly there would be a large public outcry if Deer Lake State park were offered for sale.
>From the emails and phone calls I have received, I am aware that there are those who uses the park on a regular basis. Public input should be directed to the governor?s office and FDEP.
The Governor?s email address is: Charlie.Crist@MyFlorida.com His mailing address is:
▪ Office of Governor Charlie Crist
State of Florida
PL-05 The Capitol
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0001
FDEP accepts only letters into the official records.
Therefore, you must send a letter to:
Mr. Mike Bullock
Director, Florida State Parks
3900 Commonwealth Blvd.
Mailstation 500
Tallahassee, FL 32399
Dear SWCC Member,
I have received several emails and phone calls expressing concern about the potential closure of Deer Lake State Park. I have spoken with both local park officials and the state about the proposal. At the end of this email is a public memo provided by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. (FDEP)
Here is a synopsis of what I have been told or found through research. As we all already know, the state is experiencing a financial crunch and must cut expenses. In an effort to cut expenses yet retain employees, 19 parks are being proposed for a temporary closure. Eight of the 19 parks slated for closure are in the Florida Panhandle. Here is a geographic breakdown of the proposed closures using the FDEP park region designations:
NW FL (16 counties) 33 parks total 8 to be closed 24% proposed closure of total parks in region
NE FL (17 counties)39 parks total 4 to be closed 10%
Central (13 counties) 26 parks 3 to be closed 12%
SW FL (13 counties 32 parks 2 to be closed 6%
SE FL (8 counties) 23 parks 2 to be closed 9%
According to state officials, Deer Lake is being proposed for closure on the basis that (1) it receives a small amount of use relative to the expenses of operating it and (2) it generates no revenue. This rationale is disturbing. One problem is that there is no documentation by which to ascertain how much the park is in fact being used. Deer Lake State Park does not have a visitation kiosk in which users can register. In the other parks, (Topsail, Grayton, Eden, etc) there is a day fee with a registration form. In essence, as was acknowledged by the state, there are no actual records which quantify public use of this park. It is being estimated and assumed it is not well used.
Secondly, I was initially told the operating budget for Deer Lake was around $44,000. I have received a copy of the breakdown of the operating expenses for Deer Lake for 2007-08. It breaks down as follows:
Expense Breakdown Amt. (Approx)
Phone Bills $349.33
Freight 10.00
Repairs $1,455.96
Electric Bill 605.72
Water & Sewer 242.04
Road Maintenance 610.24
Minor Tools 297.46
Parts & Fittings 157.69
Gas 1,675.43
Field Supplies 275.09
Uniform 75.00
TOTAL: $5,753.87
I have received further confirmation that it costs $5,753.87 to operate the park. Note: Grayton Beach State Park maintains Deer Lake Park and provides ranger service.
The other parks in the area charge a day fee which helps defray some of the operating expenses. While there is some discussion of assessing a day fee to help with Deer Lake in the future, according to the state officials I have spoken to, there does not appear to be any discussion of assessing a day fee as an alternative to closure. In other parks, the day fee works off an ?honor? box. No ranger is needed to collect the fee.
If in fact the operating expenses are so minimal, it would seem the imposition of a day fee and/or a fundraising drive could produce the funds to keep the park open. The closing of a gulf front park with its contribution to tourism and local year-round use should be a last resort if alternatives to help cover the operating costs are not possible. I would be interested in knowing whether our membership would be willing to pay a day fee (typically $2-3) to use the park. Please give me your thoughts.
The timing and procedure work like this: FDEP must make a recommendation of closure to the Governor?s office. If the Governor approves the closures, the proposal must go to the state legislature. The legislative session is from February through May 1st. A decision must be made during that time frame. If the state legislature votes to adopt the FDEP proposal, the closing could take place the first of July with no fixed expiration. The park will be re-opened when it is deemed financially feasible.
Some fear has been expressed as to whether Deer Lake State Park may ultimately be sold to a private purchaser. The normal procedure for sale of a park would work like this: Title to the park is held in trust. The Trustee is the Board of Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund. The Florida Division of State Lands is the administering agency for the Trustees. Parks and Recreation (P & R) manages the parks.
The first step in selling a park would be for P & R to determine that the park serves no conservation or other public purpose and recommend it be designated as ?surplus? land. Before it is considered for surplus, a notice is sent to other state agencies and the county to determine if any other entity would want the parcel. If no one responds affirmatively, the parcel is released to the Trustees and goes before the ARC (Acquisition and Restoration Council). That committee decides whether the park should be surplused. The public can speak at the ARC meeting. The notice of the meeting is on the FEDP website.
If the ARC decides to surplus the park parcel, a notice for bids must be given to property owners within 500? and a notice will be given in the newspaper although the statute provides ?(4) Failure to provide the notice as set out in subsections (1) and (3) shall not invalidate the sale, exchange, lease, or easement.?
I cannot yet verify whether this is the procedure that would have to be used for Deer Lake State Park. Deer Lake is subject to an agreement between several agencies and St. Joe and I don?t know if the documents cover discontinuance of Deer Lake as a park.
The Division of Lands has assured me there is no intent to sell Deer Lake State Park. In addition to providing a wonderful ?old Florida? experience for locals and visitors, an important function of the park was to provide habitat for endangered species. Undoubtedly there would be a large public outcry if Deer Lake State park were offered for sale.
>From the emails and phone calls I have received, I am aware that there are those who uses the park on a regular basis. Public input should be directed to the governor?s office and FDEP.
The Governor?s email address is: Charlie.Crist@MyFlorida.com His mailing address is:
▪ Office of Governor Charlie Crist
State of Florida
PL-05 The Capitol
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0001
FDEP accepts only letters into the official records.
Therefore, you must send a letter to:
Mr. Mike Bullock
Director, Florida State Parks
3900 Commonwealth Blvd.
Mailstation 500
Tallahassee, FL 32399
SWGB
Where is the water, sewer, and electricity cost coming from? My understanding that the self sustaining composting solar powered toilet on premises didn't need those three things and was great for remote (when it was installed the park was remote) areas. Is this a breakdown of what the ranger at Grayton needs for housing and due to maintaining Deer Lake it is in turn due some of that for budgeting purposes?
In addition, what if those monies are raised privately and donated to the State, would they be able to accept it and keep the park open?
In addition, what if those monies are raised privately and donated to the State, would they be able to accept it and keep the park open?
Beach Fanatic
In addition, what if those monies are raised privately and donated to the State, would they be able to accept it and keep the park open?
Geez, surely we could set up an annual fundraiser event or drive sufficient to come up with $5700 a year...
Beach Fanatic
I cannot yet verify whether this is the procedure that would have to be used for Deer Lake State Park. Deer Lake is subject to an agreement between several agencies and St. Joe and I don?t know if the documents cover discontinuance of Deer Lake as a park.
Which leaves the possibility that a sale to St. Joe is already lined up, wouldn't you think...
Sure would be nice to see these agreements, wouldn't it?
Beach Fanatic
any agreement should be available under the public records law.
Beach Fanatic
I went today. One vehicle was leaving as I arrived, another was there. I walked to the beach, enjoying the dunes along the way. Yes, $44,000... no way! The $5,700 seems more like it. I actually am scheduled to go there tomorrow to take some pics for a magazine article. I go there several times a month and have brought people there who are visiting the area. The dunes there are exquisite. Makes me ponder how beautiful this entire coast was at one time. It's almost difficult to imagine the immensity of that kind of beauty.
SWGB
You should've taken pictures today. Looks like it's gonna rain for the next couple of days.
SoWal Expert
Geez, surely we could set up an annual fundraiser event or drive sufficient to come up with $5700 a year...I'd be willing to forego a blue sign or 2 (or 3) and put that $ towards keeping a park open.
I will be SOOOOOOO pissed if St. Joe or another developer takes/buys this park!!!! :angry:
SWGB
I'd be willing to forego a blue sign or 2 (or 3) and put that $ towards keeping a park open.
I will be SOOOOOOO pissed if St. Joe or another developer takes/buys this park!!!! :angry:
I don't have a problem with it if they are given a restrictive deed requiring the park remain as is.
SoWal Expert
I didn't see mention of the fact that the Florida State Park System charges people for annual Park Passes. At least a portion of money collected goes to fund the Parks, including Deer Lake SP. I am outraged that this Gulf Front Park, which operates on less than $6,000 per year, is being considered for closing. As mentioned, a tiny local fundraiser could generate the money needed to keep it in operation, if that was really why it was being considered for closure. I think that is a bunch of horse-pooh. I guess that Prominence is about to lose their closest beach access, as the idea of shuttling owners and guests to Deer Park, was their plan for getting people to the beach.
I will certainly be writing Gov Charlie Christ on this issue, and strongly encourage everyone else to do the same.
I will certainly be writing Gov Charlie Christ on this issue, and strongly encourage everyone else to do the same.
SWGB
I guess the ultimate question here is if they are closing the park does that mean that they will lock the gates and restrict access or someone just won't clean the toilet?
SoWal Expert
First, there is closure. Then, after several years of no use, the State declares the property as "surplus" land. Every once in a while, the State will map out and sell off parcels which it can no longer manage/maintain. I'm beginning to see the writing on the wall, and I'm not liking what I see.
Beach Fanatic
I didn't see mention of the fact that the Florida State Park System charges people for annual Park Passes. At least a portion of money collected goes to fund the Parks, including Deer Lake SP. I am outraged that this Gulf Front Park, which operates on less than $6,000 per year, is being considered for closing. As mentioned, a tiny local fundraiser could generate the money needed to keep it in operation, if that was really why it was being considered for closure. I think that is a bunch of horse-pooh. I guess that Prominence is about to lose their closest beach access, as the idea of shuttling owners and guests to Deer Park, was their plan for getting people to the beach.
I will certainly be writing Gov Charlie Christ on this issue, and strongly encourage everyone else to do the same.
I have already written the Governor; perhaps it would be wise for us to write to our local Legislative Delegation as well.
Banned
I'd be willing to forego a blue sign or 2 (or 3) and put that $ towards keeping a park open.
I will be SOOOOOOO pissed if St. Joe or another developer takes/buys this park!!!! :angry:
Just let a developer buy it already. We could put the money into some sort of investment vehicle that pays the bills at all the other gulf front parks in perpetuity.
Beach Fanatic
Response from the Gov's office to my EMail.
Dear Mr. TreeFrog:
Thank you for writing to Governor Charlie Crist regarding funding for the State Parks in Florida. The Governor appreciates receiving your comments and asked that I respond on his behalf.
The Governor and the Legislature work together to develop budget priorities with a focus of maximizing the use of existing programs and ensuring that Floridians are getting the best value for their dollar. Within this context, please be assured the Governor will carefully consider your comments and those of other concerned Floridians regarding the Fiscal Year 2008-09 budget.
Again, thank you for taking the time to share your views with Governor Crist. You may also wish to share your comments with your local legislative delegation.
Sincerely,
Aundra Bryant
Office of Policy and Budget
Executive Office of the Governor
Here's another source suggesting you write your local legislators.
Dear Mr. TreeFrog:
Thank you for writing to Governor Charlie Crist regarding funding for the State Parks in Florida. The Governor appreciates receiving your comments and asked that I respond on his behalf.
The Governor and the Legislature work together to develop budget priorities with a focus of maximizing the use of existing programs and ensuring that Floridians are getting the best value for their dollar. Within this context, please be assured the Governor will carefully consider your comments and those of other concerned Floridians regarding the Fiscal Year 2008-09 budget.
Again, thank you for taking the time to share your views with Governor Crist. You may also wish to share your comments with your local legislative delegation.
Sincerely,
Aundra Bryant
Office of Policy and Budget
Executive Office of the Governor
Here's another source suggesting you write your local legislators.
Edited
SoWal Expert
In addition to writing our local State legislators, I will also be writing our County Commissioners, urging them to also make a push, on behalf of the County, to keep the Park open. I hope others will join me. Seriously, we should be able to locally raise $6000, to keep the Park open, if costs was the reason why it was being considered for closure.
Beach Fanatic
Why is it that we don't have to pay to enjoy this park? We've often wondered this. We would be more than happy to pay a few bucks each time we visit to enjoy such an incredible view.
SoWal Expert
good question, and the answer it would likely cost more to staff someone to collect the money from the box, account for it on paper, make deposits, etc, on a daily basis. In reality, it is likely cheaper to not collect money.
Banned
In addition to writing our local State legislators, I will also be writing our County Commissioners, urging them to also make a push, on behalf of the County, to keep the Park open. I hope others will join me. Seriously, we should be able to locally raise $6000, to keep the Park open, if costs was the reason why it was being considered for closure.
Sorry, once again I'm questioning the statement that this has to do with the operating budget of the park. If you want to keep the park Public longterm you might want to consider this as well. It's more probable that this has to do with something other than the State budget.
I'm fine with it going private if the State and County use the proceeds for something that will have budgetary permanence. I'm completely against closing the gate strictly because of next years budget.
Beach Fanatic
The lack of facilities, lack of a manned ticket booth, minimal parking, the long walk to get to the Gulf--ironoically, these are all the reaons that make Deer Lake State Park a total gem.
If it does close in July, at least I will have the Spring to enjoy it!
If it does close in July, at least I will have the Spring to enjoy it!
Edited
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