There are currently Fire, EMS, and WCSO at the Dunes of Seagrove. It appears that a lifeguard is in the water attempting to reach someone.
Red Flags mean do not go in the WATER!!
Replies
62Beach Lover
this man was a hospital administrator and pillar of his community. this tragedy could have been averted if the parents were as responsible as the rescuer.
however, let's bear in mind, while some folks are simply not going to pay attention no matter what you say, many people here are visitors and do not understand how dangerous and undertow can be, do not see the flags and often do not know what the flag system means. thankfully, sowal now has lifeguards, but despite it's horrible safety record, sandestin still doesn't have any. i think it's important to remember that visitors are guests here and as guests who may not understand the lay of the land, we are responsible for their safety.
however, let's bear in mind, while some folks are simply not going to pay attention no matter what you say, many people here are visitors and do not understand how dangerous and undertow can be, do not see the flags and often do not know what the flag system means. thankfully, sowal now has lifeguards, but despite it's horrible safety record, sandestin still doesn't have any. i think it's important to remember that visitors are guests here and as guests who may not understand the lay of the land, we are responsible for their safety.
Beach Lover
I do see the point about the flag system. I personally am a very accomplished swimmer and do not go in when there is a red flag unless I am surfing. It is however a choice as the single red flag does not close the water. I think everyone is somehow missing the point that in a beach town with thousands of ocean swimmers there should be a better rescue system in place for this type of problem. The initial response was so rapid, but they could not do anything to help. It was at least another 20-30 minutes before someone equipped to help these people came and that is just too long. Train some fire responders and put paddleboards or even a small pwc on the fire equipment. If that saved one life it would be worth it. It would have saved this swimmer I would bet.
pirate, i couldn't agree with you more.
as a community whose properity is tied to those guests who visit us, it's our moral obligation to ensure their well-being. we also do not have a trauma unit within ambulance range of our beaches. the closest certified trauma unit is in pensacola which is 20 minutes by lifeflight, that means if the emts can stabilize someone for at least 20-40 minutes, they will simply not make it.
SoWal Expert
Yes, many people are visitors, but I really don't know what MORE we can do to get the word out about the flag system or rip currents.
When I walk down to the beach I pass the large sign explaining them in 2 languages, if I go to throw something away or leave the beach there is another sign, when the clock radio goes off in the morning the DJ is talking about how you should check the flag system and beware of rip tides, I've got a free t-shirt w/ the flag system printed on it, the free local paper prints it every week, there are TV commercials about it, many owners provide info about it in their units ..............
The problem is not a lack of trying to protect our visitors, the problem is people ignoring those attempts.
When I walk down to the beach I pass the large sign explaining them in 2 languages, if I go to throw something away or leave the beach there is another sign, when the clock radio goes off in the morning the DJ is talking about how you should check the flag system and beware of rip tides, I've got a free t-shirt w/ the flag system printed on it, the free local paper prints it every week, there are TV commercials about it, many owners provide info about it in their units ..............
The problem is not a lack of trying to protect our visitors, the problem is people ignoring those attempts.
Edited
Beach Lover
Yes, many people are visitors, but I really don't know what MORE we can do to get the word out about the flag system or rip currents.
When I walk down to the beach I pass the large sign explaining them in 2 languages, if I go to throw something away or leave the beach there is another sign, when the clock radio goes off in the morning the DJ is talking about how you should check the flag system and beware of rip tides, I've got a free t-shirt w/ the flag system printed on it, the free local paper prints it every week, there are TV commercials about it, many owners provide info about it in their units ..............
The problem is not a lack of trying to protect our visitors, the problem is people ignoring those attempts.
oh SO much more can be done to get the word out about safety. no visitor is going to listen to your local station - they've go their ipods!- or is at their hotel watching tv- their making sure they spend every minute outside on their vacation!- or is reading your local paper- what do they care? the fact that "many" owners provide info in their units instead of ALL property owners and concierge services being required to explain it is an indicator
hopefully the powers that be here..tdc? will come up with a cohesive communications plan for water safety and hurricane evacuation (return) that the short or long term visit can tap into easily. there are lots of examples from other tourist destinations and cities.
Beach Fanatic
Private beach accesses also don't have postings about the flag system, nor does the beach near the access. The flags may be 1/4 mile away, and not noticed by people who aren't looking for them - it's easy for the mind to focus on the beach, kids, etc., in front of you rather than turning right or left and noticing a flag. So, we could ask our associations to put up a flag system and safety chart by the entrances, and the TDC could provide them, even if it meant a charge (though I would hope our rental taxes would pay for things like this). Anything we do that is within our control to prevent tragedies like this (my heart goes out to this man's family) is worth it. I really can't say enough how ignorant people can be about beach safety (that includes me, especially before I became more of a beach person through SoWal and SoWal.com) and how little intuition about beach safety people have. Even those who usually use extreme caution with their families may not understand the risks of the beautiful ocean. Couple that with no signs about safety in many areas, things like this will continue to happen. If there was a sign at this beach, then it was indeed the parents'/adults' full responsibility with no excuses to keep their children out of the water.
I noticed at Sanibel Island there are no safety flags and, frankly, I don't remember seeing any safety signs at the beach or beach entrance there - at least not at the condo place where we were staying and it was a big complex with a wide stretch of beach in front. I thought that was interesting. It could be that Sanibel has no rip tides or need for red flags, but I don't know that. I give SoWal credit for the signs, flag system and life guards. Clearly, there is even more we all could be doing. Personally, I'm going to check with our Association to see if we can put up a beach safety sign at the entrance to our beach access. It's a way of telling our guests, many of whom have children, that we care about them.
I noticed at Sanibel Island there are no safety flags and, frankly, I don't remember seeing any safety signs at the beach or beach entrance there - at least not at the condo place where we were staying and it was a big complex with a wide stretch of beach in front. I thought that was interesting. It could be that Sanibel has no rip tides or need for red flags, but I don't know that. I give SoWal credit for the signs, flag system and life guards. Clearly, there is even more we all could be doing. Personally, I'm going to check with our Association to see if we can put up a beach safety sign at the entrance to our beach access. It's a way of telling our guests, many of whom have children, that we care about them.
Beach Fanatic
This whole conversation puts me in mind of my continuing amazement that Walton County -- with as many miles of waterfront as we have -- does not have water safety, swimming and lifesaving classes (and pools for learning the stuff) in every school, as a mandatory part of P.E. starting in kindergarten and all the way through graduation. Imagine if we had a resident population of strong swimmers trained in water safety.
I have tried to get the School Board to do something about this, and have also tried to get the Parks and Rec folks to do something, and it's always "Thank you for your comments, but you can't get there from here."
It's an enormous public safety issue, and the wholesale failure of our various governing bodies to address this adequately confounds me.
I have tried to get the School Board to do something about this, and have also tried to get the Parks and Rec folks to do something, and it's always "Thank you for your comments, but you can't get there from here."
It's an enormous public safety issue, and the wholesale failure of our various governing bodies to address this adequately confounds me.
Beach Fanatic
oh SO much more can be done to get the word out about safety. no visitor is going to listen to your local station - they've go their ipods!- or is at their hotel watching tv- their making sure they spend every minute outside on their vacation!- or is reading your local paper- what do they care? the fact that "many" owners provide info in their units instead of ALL property owners and concierge services being required to explain it is an indicator
hopefully the powers that be here..tdc? will come up with a cohesive communications plan for water safety and hurricane evacuation (return) that the short or long term visit can tap into easily. there are lots of examples from other tourist destinations and cities.
Have you ever gone to any of the SWFD or TDC meetings and expressed your concern? Talking about it on a forum is going to get you nowhere. If you are that concerned for the safety of the public, you need to show up and speak out.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
This whole conversation puts me in mind of my continuing amazement that Walton County -- with as many miles of waterfront as we have -- does not have water safety, swimming and lifesaving classes (and pools for learning the stuff) in every school, as a mandatory part of P.E. starting in kindergarten and all the way through graduation. Imagine if we had a resident population of strong swimmers trained in water safety.
We had something like that where I grew up in Michigan. Either 4th or 5th grade your gym class for a quarter was 'drownproofing'- they'd bus us over to the high school pool and we'd do a mix of swimming and water safety lessons. Fun for me since I'm utterly an utterly hopeless athlete on land but was a long time swim team kid already at that point and it was like my one chance to shine in gym class.
Alas that program was a casualty of budget cuts in the mid-80s.
In 7th grade, we also got out of social studies class for two weeks in order to take a boating safety class run by the local sheriff's office. That program's probably long gone by the wayside as well.
SoWal Expert
We had swim lessons at the community pool as little kids - someone not knowing how to swim was a rarity because we spent so much time in and around water. I was quite surprised to find out that there wasn't a community pool here that offered lessons considering the amount of water surrounding us.
Knowing how to swim was actually a college requirement - they decreed that it was a necessary life skill, so every freshman had to take a swim test (think it was a 100m swim and a 5 min treading water) and if you didn't pass, you had to take swimming as your gym rotation.
The summer camp I worked at made everyone take a similar swim test w/ shoes, long pants, and long sleeved shirt in the chilly lake - even though every counselor was a lifeguard and wearing life preservers in boats was mandatory.
I took Boater's Safety Class because if you were certified, you could drive the boat at a younger age - the Department of Natural Resources offered it for a nominal fee.
Knowing how to swim was actually a college requirement - they decreed that it was a necessary life skill, so every freshman had to take a swim test (think it was a 100m swim and a 5 min treading water) and if you didn't pass, you had to take swimming as your gym rotation.
The summer camp I worked at made everyone take a similar swim test w/ shoes, long pants, and long sleeved shirt in the chilly lake - even though every counselor was a lifeguard and wearing life preservers in boats was mandatory.
I took Boater's Safety Class because if you were certified, you could drive the boat at a younger age - the Department of Natural Resources offered it for a nominal fee.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
I wonder if a billboard with the flag system right before and after the 331 bridge would help. Also at the intersection of 98 & 331.
Beach Fanatic
If it's an area where you get a lot of day trippers, that kind of system can work very well. They have displays of flags and explanations of current conditions right after the bridges to Navarre Beach and Pensacola Beach.
But I suspect that most of the people most impacted by the dorwining and near-drowning issue are pretty hunkered down for a week and wouldn't see the day's signs in those locations.
But I suspect that most of the people most impacted by the dorwining and near-drowning issue are pretty hunkered down for a week and wouldn't see the day's signs in those locations.
SoWal Insider
If it's an area where you get a lot of day trippers, that kind of system can work very well. They have displays of flags and explanations of current conditions right after the bridges to Navarre Beach and Pensacola Beach.
But I suspect that most of the people most impacted by the dorwining and near-drowning issue are pretty hunkered down for a week and wouldn't see the day's signs in those locations.
The toll-takers at the Pensacola Bridge hand out brochures with information about the flag system and rip-tides, as well as the lit billboards at those locations that advertise the surf conditions and they still have to go in and rescue people on red flag days.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Billboard at 331 is a good idea
Maybe a big Billboard with our flag warning system would help. But it seems as if more tourists ignore rules designed for thier safety while on vacation. They act like because they pay rent to stay somewhere that they should be able to do what they want, like entering the water when it is not safe, and walking in front of cars when crossing the street, riding thier bikes without regard to the rules of the road. I am actually amazed that there are not more tourists killed here because of thier disregard to thier own and thier families safety.
Maybe a big Billboard with our flag warning system would help. But it seems as if more tourists ignore rules designed for thier safety while on vacation. They act like because they pay rent to stay somewhere that they should be able to do what they want, like entering the water when it is not safe, and walking in front of cars when crossing the street, riding thier bikes without regard to the rules of the road. I am actually amazed that there are not more tourists killed here because of thier disregard to thier own and thier families safety.
Beach Fanatic
Personally I think it is more the mentality of "I am on vacation I am immune to danger."
I think people read the information about the Flag system but just don't process it. I think they just can not bring themselves to think that a vacation destination can be dangerous.
I think many have no experience with the conditions of the water until they have to actually experience it, then sometimes it is too late.
This attitude of nothing will hurt me, I am on vacation is not just at the beach either, it happens many places. You have people who do not know how to ski, suddenly think that they can just put on skis and take off down the mountain. At Disney World you have parents allowing very young children to go pretty much anywhere by themselves, thinking no one would harm them there.
So until someone can figure out how to change the mindset of a tourist concering danger, not sure if anything will help.
I think people read the information about the Flag system but just don't process it. I think they just can not bring themselves to think that a vacation destination can be dangerous.
I think many have no experience with the conditions of the water until they have to actually experience it, then sometimes it is too late.
This attitude of nothing will hurt me, I am on vacation is not just at the beach either, it happens many places. You have people who do not know how to ski, suddenly think that they can just put on skis and take off down the mountain. At Disney World you have parents allowing very young children to go pretty much anywhere by themselves, thinking no one would harm them there.
So until someone can figure out how to change the mindset of a tourist concering danger, not sure if anything will help.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Have you ever gone to any of the SWFD or TDC meetings and expressed your concern? Talking about it on a forum is going to get you nowhere. If you are that concerned for the safety of the public, you need to show up and speak out.
This-n-that,
You're preaching to the choir--I am always encouraging Sowallers to show up at meetings, speak up, participate in democracy! Yes, I have been to more county meetings than I can count over many years, and have served on a number of county boards myself (appointed, unpaid, not elected positions; and I never asked to be appointed but have willingly served whenever asked).
I have personally called and/or written WCSB and BCC members about this, and attended Park and Rec meetings. Have not tried TDC or SWFD but they don't seem to me to have anything to do with getting swim classes into schools; and I've noticed over all these years of meeting-attending that the TDC and the BCC and the School Board and so on, they don't much like playing together. They all seem to want their own worlds to be compartmentalized. Or maybe there's something in the way each group is set up that legally keeps them from coordinating efforts better. I do know Gov. Bush decreed a few years ago that school districts and county commissions should get together and plan together.
So I don't know where to go from here, and besides, I'm too busy making a living, putting my children through college and working on EAR-based amendments (Planning Commission) just now to take on another crusade. I'm only one woman! Would love to see someone pick up this torch and run with it. For instance, parents with school-age kids involved in PTOs (which is what I was when I was trying to make this happen years ago).
Beach Fanatic
We had swim lessons at the community pool as little kids - someone not knowing how to swim was a rarity because we spent so much time in and around water. I was quite surprised to find out that there wasn't a community pool here that offered lessons considering the amount of water surrounding us.
The summer camp I worked at made everyone take a similar swim test w/ shoes, long pants, and long sleeved shirt in the chilly lake - even though every counselor was a lifeguard and wearing life preservers in boats was mandatory.
Indeed! I can only remember one or two kids I knew who couldn't swim well, and they missed out on a lot because that was THE main activity of hot months where I grew up (Montgomery, AL). Whether in a pool, the lake, the river, a pond at a friend's farm,or at the coast, we were in the water as many hours a day as adults in charge would allow. Shriveled fingers, green hair from chlorine, or lakewater musky smelling hair, blue lips!
We were also drilled by our parents to respect the Gulf and all bodies of water, and I knew all about rip tides and undertows and what to do if caught in one by the time I was 8 years old. We stayed out of the sun in the hottest part of the day, because DUH, that's when you get too much sun too easily. Besides, it's lunch time and nap time! And I was a tourist. So why aren't tourist parents teaching THEIR kids this stuff? Where's the disconnect?
Beach Fanatic
This-n-that,
You're preaching to the choir--I am always encouraging Sowallers to show up at meetings, speak up, participate in democracy! Yes, I have been to more county meetings than I can count over many years, and have served on a number of county boards myself (appointed, unpaid, not elected positions; and I never asked to be appointed but have willingly served whenever asked).
I have personally called and/or written WCSB and BCC members about this, and attended Park and Rec meetings. Have not tried TDC or SWFD but they don't seem to me to have anything to do with getting swim classes into schools; and I've noticed over all these years of meeting-attending that the TDC and the BCC and the School Board and so on, they don't much like playing together. They all seem to want their own worlds to be compartmentalized. Or maybe there's something in the way each group is set up that legally keeps them from coordinating efforts better. I do know Gov. Bush decreed a few years ago that school districts and county commissions should get together and plan together.
So I don't know where to go from here, and besides, I'm too busy making a living, putting my children through college and working on EAR-based amendments (Planning Commission) just now to take on another crusade. I'm only one woman! Would love to see someone pick up this torch and run with it. For instance, parents with school-age kids involved in PTOs (which is what I was when I was trying to make this happen years ago).
Susan Horn gets 5 Stars ***** for all that she's done in her life here in SoWal!!!! She deserves to chill!!!!!
We can all learn from her wisdom through her posts!!!!
Beach Fanatic
Personally I think it is more the mentality of "I am on vacation I am immune to danger."
I think people read the information about the Flag system but just don't process it. I think they just can not bring themselves to think that a vacation destination can be dangerous.
I think many have no experience with the conditions of the water until they have to actually experience it, then sometimes it is too late.
This attitude of nothing will hurt me, I am on vacation is not just at the beach either, it happens many places. You have people who do not know how to ski, suddenly think that they can just put on skis and take off down the mountain. At Disney World you have parents allowing very young children to go pretty much anywhere by themselves, thinking no one would harm them there.
So until someone can figure out how to change the mindset of a tourist concering danger, not sure if anything will help.
I so agree! When you go off on vacation you are in a different frame of mind. When we were in the jungles of Mexico one time we got ourselves into what could have been a bad situation.
It was scary enough. Makes my heart beat fast now just thinking about it. Our tour guide was white as a sheet and he was of Mexican decent. 
Between the three of us....this was me!:leaving:Beach Fanatic
Susan Horn gets 5 Stars ***** for all that she's done in her life here in SoWal!!!! She deserves to chill!!!!!
We can all learn from her wisdom through her posts!!!!
Oh I am SO ready to sip a pina colada on the beach. Thanks for that lovely image! And for the kind words. Means a lot to me.
beats on hood
Knowing how to swim was actually a college requirement - they decreed that it was a necessary life skill, so every freshman had to take a swim test (think it was a 100m swim and a 5 min treading water) and if you didn't pass, you had to take swimming as your gym rotation.At Tulane we had to pass a swimming test in order to graduate. I don't know of any colleges/universities that have that requirement anymore, do you?
My nephews and brother-in-law are here at the beach, surfing.
Beach Fanatic
At Tulane we had to pass a swimming test in order to graduate. I don't know of any colleges/universities that have that requirement anymore, do you?This brings forth a question. My wife and I just returned from the walkover and double red flags are flying. There are three small kids with boogie boards catching the surf as it breaks near the shore. They are being supervised. There are also several surfers out further and nearer the public access. What should be done with these two situations, if anything, when double red flags are flying? Being a local, I understand surfers are certainly a cut above the normal swimmer. But when they are seen that far out in the water by the tourista to some it means, "Oh, its alright. See those guys out there. Any input regarding beach etiquette would be appreciated.
My nephews and brother-in-law are here at the beach, surfing.
Beach Lover
This-n-that,
You're preaching to the choir--I am always encouraging Sowallers to show up at meetings, speak up, participate in democracy! Yes, I have been to more county meetings than I can count over many years, and have served on a number of county boards myself (appointed, unpaid, not elected positions; and I never asked to be appointed but have willingly served whenever asked).
I have personally called and/or written WCSB and BCC members about this, and attended Park and Rec meetings. Have not tried TDC or SWFD but they don't seem to me to have anything to do with getting swim classes into schools; and I've noticed over all these years of meeting-attending that the TDC and the BCC and the School Board and so on, they don't much like playing together. They all seem to want their own worlds to be compartmentalized. Or maybe there's something in the way each group is set up that legally keeps them from coordinating efforts better. I do know Gov. Bush decreed a few years ago that school districts and county commissions should get together and plan together.
So I don't know where to go from here, and besides, I'm too busy making a living, putting my children through college and working on EAR-based amendments (Planning Commission) just now to take on another crusade. I'm only one woman! Would love to see someone pick up this torch and run with it. For instance, parents with school-age kids involved in PTOs (which is what I was when I was trying to make this happen years ago).
i have tried the tdc as have others. i'm sure you were given the SAME OL' LINE. "we don't need to do that. we're just a small town."
Edited
Beach Lover
We had swim lessons at the community pool as little kids - someone not knowing how to swim was a rarity because we spent so much time in and around water. I was quite surprised to find out that there wasn't a community pool here that offered lessons considering the amount of water surrounding us.
Knowing how to swim was actually a college requirement - they decreed that it was a necessary life skill, so every freshman had to take a swim test (think it was a 100m swim and a 5 min treading water) and if you didn't pass, you had to take swimming as your gym rotation.
The summer camp I worked at made everyone take a similar swim test w/ shoes, long pants, and long sleeved shirt in the chilly lake - even though every counselor was a lifeguard and wearing life preservers in boats was mandatory.
I took Boater's Safety Class because if you were certified, you could drive the boat at a younger age - the Department of Natural Resources offered it for a nominal fee.
in new york city, they give free swimming lessons to people of all ages at the YMCA on the upper west side.
Beach Fanatic
I really like the billboard idea...........lets see what we can do. Don't like billboards, but I think this idea has possibilities.
Skunky
I don't think there will be any perfect system, and who knows, without the current beach flag system in place, we might see twice as many tragedies than we currently do.
One idea I had was coming up with a flag that really made people stop and think before entering the water. In the days prior to wholesale literacy there were symbols and colors that people understood implied danger. For example, poison bottles were embossed with hobnails, skull and crossbones, owls and were tinted blue and green. People knew what this meant, even if they couldn't read. Would it be totally out of line if Walton was to fly a black flag with an ominous logo (one not easily confused with the ubiquitous Jolly Roger) on the same pole as the double reds?
One idea I had was coming up with a flag that really made people stop and think before entering the water. In the days prior to wholesale literacy there were symbols and colors that people understood implied danger. For example, poison bottles were embossed with hobnails, skull and crossbones, owls and were tinted blue and green. People knew what this meant, even if they couldn't read. Would it be totally out of line if Walton was to fly a black flag with an ominous logo (one not easily confused with the ubiquitous Jolly Roger) on the same pole as the double reds?
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