County removing articles from beach?

What is so hard with this concept? You can not have a different standard for the beach than you do the rest of the county.

Of course you can. I suppose you don't believe in zoning, either?

You need to go back to the history books. It is beyond me how the concept of private property seems to some people to mean anything goes, just because they own it. The concept of private ownership of property, and the right to sell it or bequeath it, is what this country was founded on, as opposed to limiting property ownership to a monarchy and/or the aristocracy.
While you are studying that history also take a look at the concept of the "commons."

I have been looking for that clause (wee bit different verbage) on my deed and i cannot locate it. Please refer me to that clause on on your deed so I can make sure I ask my attorney about it.

I sure will be happy when I get this cleared up.

Of course you can. I suppose you don't believe in zoning, either?

You need to go back to the history books. It is beyond me how the concept of private property seems to some people to mean anything goes, just because they own it. The concept of private ownership of property, and the right to sell it or bequeath it, is what this country was founded on, as opposed to limiting property ownership to a monarchy and/or the aristocracy.
While you are studying that history also take a look at the concept of the "commons."

Thank you. WRobert might also read up on the 'radical' agendas of Teddy Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln, two great Republicans who 'got it' regarding the fact that some areas of the country are just too special to limit to a select few property owners.

I have been looking for that clause (wee bit different verbage) on my deed and i cannot locate it. Please refer me to that clause on on your deed so I can make sure I ask my attorney about it.

I sure will be happy when I get this cleared up.

Your deed is obviously defective and your property now ready for Obama to confiscate.

OK you obviously have no deed with the "wee bit different clause, how about a case law citation that rules on the "wee bit difference" clause.

Waiting!

OK you obviously have no deed with the "wee bit different clause, how about a case law citation that rules on the "wee bit difference" clause.

Waiting!

I didn't realize sock puppets could even own land in this country. God Bless the USA!

Still not an answer. Guess there is no such thing as the "wee bit different" legal rule.

Do you honestly think anyone is so stupid to not be able to get the concept that the beach is just a wee bit different than some random parcel of woods somewhere?

Sea turtles, for example, don't nest in the woods.

And if a bunch of crap is left in the forest, and no one is around to see it, does it make sense to have it removed? No.

And bears don't hibernate on the beach. So what?

And bears don't hibernate on the beach. So what?

I don't believe the state is that concerned about hibernating bears. The state is, however, very concerned about sea turtle nests.

FWC - Marine Turtle - Beach Furniture and Sea Turtles

To Reduce Impacts To Sea Turtles From Beach Furniture:
Remove furniture from the beach nightly

At night, furniture should be completely removed from the beach and stored behind the primary dune. Please remember, heavy equipment is not allowed on the beach during nesting season. When possible, all furniture should be moved by hand.

Still not an answer. Guess there is no such thing as the "wee bit different" legal rule.

I guess not. Not to worry, the Supreme Court couldn't even define what pornography was, and that body is composed of real live lawyers. Still, they figured that even if they couldn't define it, one knew it if they saw it;the same goes for delusional people who think they can 'own' a chunk (wee or otherwise) of the beach.

i think the guiding principle of the ruling was that what is pornographic to one might be art to another. Real Estate law seems to be an area that they have no problem defining.

Sea turtles are always welcome to nest on my property, but that has nothing to do with the issue being discussed in this thread.


I look forward to a definitive ruling. I believe in the legal system and not just some peoples opinion.

YouTube - REGULATION VACATION CELEBRATION!

Oh, and just curious -- how much revenue does your lot in the woods generate for this county? this state?

A lott in the woods generates the same amount of revenue per 100,000 in value as a lot on the beach.

Revenue generated on a parcel of land is not germaine to the discussion, surely you don't think that property rights are determined by the revenue strean associated with the parcel.

That would definitely be a strange system of government. Pay less and have fewer protection under the law just doesn't seem fair.

Well, I gotta weigh in here and just say that my family and I believe that the beaches and the natural areas surrounding them are almost sacred land for all of us to ENJOY. I don't know and probably don't care that someone may think "they" own the beach because they don't Watch that sand wash away next hurricane season and then who owns that "land." We walk and pick up trash on whoevers beach property we walk across. We ask people to please remove their stuff from the beach at night due to problems with accidents at night by people walking, to fill in holes, to remember the nesting turtles and their rights, and we don not ask them "who owns this beach?" The county has in our opinion dropped the medicine ball with this non-enforcement if there is a legal leg to stand on. But after watching this county act recently, I think they are all in someone's pocket. As far as blaming Obama, give it a break! Let's blame Dick Cheney instead. Makes as much sense to me.

Do you honestly think anyone is so stupid to not be able to get the concept that the beach is just a wee bit different than some random parcel of woods somewhere?

Fords are different than Chevrolets but the same rules apply.

I don't get what the point is here. I don't see how anyone can argue that tons of stuff left on the beach overnight isn't a) bad for tourism; b) bad for emergency vehicles, c) bad for the nesting turtles.

Is a volleyball net more important than any of the above? Clearly no. But I can see why individual property rights are an issue, because of the ridiculous ways various lots have been platted over the years. Are any of the above more important than individual property rights? Definitely (b), and it appears the state wildlife commission could certainly argue for (c). I would think most individual property owners would be concerned about (a).

For those waiting to see how the legal process plays out, how much did you try to work with the county before suing? Or was it just "file a lawsuit and see what happens next?" Right now it appears like a small group of people are yelling at everyone else (including the county) to get off their lawns, at the expense of the greater good.

What is so hard with this concept? You can not have a different standard for the beach than you do the rest of the county. If I leave something outside in the woods I own after dark, it is not abandoned. My woods, my land, I can leave stuff out overnight if I want too. The same rules apply for the beach if I own it.

Once the public/private beach ownership question is decided, if someone will ever make that decision, the rest will fall into place.

So if you happen to own the land where the County mistakenly cleared and paved a road for public use, but you have title to the land, can you leave your crap in the middle of the road and expect it to still be there tomorrow?

Land ownership is sometimes clear as mud, and your rights of use for that land even muddier. The way you are talking, the gov't has no control of you dumping hazardous waste on your own property, and they sure as heck wouldn't have any rights to tell you how to use your property, ie- zoning.

Interested Girl, glad you won your case for Edgewater, but how would you suggest rewriting the ordinance? I sure hope you deeded waterfront owners don't have an endangered species die on "your" exclusive beach. I cannot imagine the national press you will receive, though I do know the fines.

...

For those waiting to see how the legal process plays out, how much did you try to work with the county before suing? Or was it just "file a lawsuit and see what happens next?" Right now it appears like a small group of people are yelling at everyone else (including the county) to get off their lawns, at the expense of the greater good.

I think the Edgewater spokesperson came to the public hearings regarding the issue and asked point blankly if her beach volleyball net would be able to get an exemption because they didn't want to take it down, and she couldn't get a straight answer from the Commissioners, and said that she okay with the ordinance if her beach volleyball net could stay. If it couldn't, she was going to sue.

I think the Edgewater spokesperson came to the public hearings regarding the issue and asked point blankly if her beach volleyball net would be able to get an exemption because they didn't want to take it down, and she couldn't get a straight answer from the Commissioners, and said that she okay with the ordinance if her beach volleyball net could stay. If it couldn't, she was going to sue.

This particular lawsuit is really all about a volleyball net? Interested girl called this a "win" for Edgewater. Funny, everyone looks like a loser to me.

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From: Dave Sell <dsell@beachesofsouthwalton.com>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 08:23:13 -0500
To: Kevin Hargett <harkevin@co.walton.fl.us>
Conversation: items on the beach
Subject: Re: items on the beach

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[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Kevin,
We were instructed b y the county attorney to immediately cease removing items off the beach unless is a hazard.
Dave
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Based on information I have received, this post (email) pretty much sums up the current status of the program.

I believe you mean "Edgewater," home of the volleyball queen. Actually, I like her spunk, but I think her position on the issue is a little stubborn. From all she says in the Commissioner meetings, there is no give on Edgewater's end. She has repeatedly mentioned that Edgewater goes to great lengths to ensure the beach is free of litter and debris every day, and I commend them for that, especially since it IS REQUIRED of all beach venders, though many of the beach venders and the Code Enforcement turn their heads on that part of the Beach Vending Permit clause. I don't go to the beach at Edgewater, so I don't know.

From the way I understood her describing it, Edgewater has a permanent structure for a beach volleyball net/posts (sounded like 6"x6" wooden posts, but I'm not sure.) If that is the case, and it is close to the dune line, I'm not sure how that would be different for Seaturtles and BeachCop vehicles, than a beach walkover with pilings.

It is a shame that they have taken it to this level, if that is the case, but I understand the point. The down side is that doing so effects a totally different issue of all the crap left on the beach every day. I know that Edgewater certainly wouldn't allow people to leave crap on that stretch of beach everyday, so the very narrow focus is very short-sighted in my opinion. We ALL want to maintiain the beautiful beaches which are present. Let's not blow it. Thankfully, many of the locals and visitors don't pay attention to whose property they are collecting trash.

By the way, I need a new beach chair and umbrella, if anyone knows where I can get one.

I believe you mean "Edgewater," home of the volleyball queen. Actually, I like her spunk, but I think her position on the issue is a little stubborn. From all she says in the Commissioner meetings, there is no give on Edgewater's end. She has repeatedly mentioned that Edgewater goes to great lengths to ensure the beach is free of litter and debris every day, and I commend them for that, especially since it IS REQUIRED of all beach venders, though many of the beach venders and the Code Enforcement turn their heads on that part of the Beach Vending Permit clause. I don't go to the beach at Edgewater, so I don't know.

From the way I understood her describing it, Edgewater has a permanent structure for a beach volleyball net/posts (sounded like 6"x6" wooden posts, but I'm not sure.) If that is the case, and it is close to the dune line, I'm not sure how that would be different for Seaturtles and BeachCop vehicles, than a beach walkover with pilings.

It is a shame that they have taken it to this level, if that is the case, but I understand the point. The down side is that doing so effects a totally different issue of all the crap left on the beach every day. I know that Edgewater certainly wouldn't allow people to leave crap on that stretch of beach everyday, so the very narrow focus is very short-sighted in my opinion. We ALL want to maintiain the beautiful beaches which are present. Let's not blow it. Thankfully, many of the locals and visitors don't pay attention to whose property they are collecting trash.

Thank you, I edited ... got my lawsuits mixed up. I agree with this post above. If the net is a "permanent" structure, then it should have been properly permitted at the time of installation. If it was, it seems like it would be grandfathered in like any other permanent structure. If it wasn't properly permitted when it was installed, then it should be torn down or find a way to grandfather it in, just don't hold up the court system with such nonsense.

My oh My !

In your example the country cleared my land absent a easement or dedicated right of way and payment or acquiring the property through emminent domain proceedings - right ?

Ka Ching $$$$$$ -

View attachment 13145


The only thing being removed will be the asphalt, road base and then the county will restore the site to its original condition to make me "whole".