30-a beach looks like tent city

There are only five houses in our neighborhood whose residents can use our private walkover and the beach in front of our neighborhood, and there is no public walkover nearby. One of the houses doesn't rent, and the other one has full-time residents. So if I see stuff on the beach that isn't used for a couple of days, I assume it's from a previous renter and remove it from the beach. If I see items in use that are left on the beach overnight, it has to be from one of the other two houses that rent. So I introduce myself as an owner and nicely inform them of the rules regarding not leaving stuff on the beach overnight. They are cordial and cooperative in response.

shelly, the "big blue signs" were signs of what was to come.

Rules on the beach

I have read most of the above posts and am thoroughly confused. Aside from any person's particular view on this issue, what is the actual law, rule, or regulation regarding personal property left on the beach overnight? If these items are legally considered abandoned, then why are people concerned about legal repurcussions for taking or destroying them? It seems to me that if the county does not have the resources to enforce these rules, then a simple finders keepers would take care of the problem. Anyway, as I stated, I am not sure what the actual rule is. Anyone? Thanks.

The answer to your questions are buried in all the replies on this thread. The TDC was picking up stuff left out overnight and discarding it. A local condominium sued the county about the specific verbage that allows the TDC to pick things up. The county suspended picking up abandoned items while legal councel makes certain the language of the law doesn't have loopholes that allows folks to sue. Once this is sorted out, hopefully the TDC will be able to resume assisting everyone else on this board and beyond in keeping the beaches beautiful once again.

You could also try this group since they actively monitor County tax expenditures and would likely want to know about any possible revenue loss from upset visitors since the majority of tax revenues in Walton County are derived from the tourism industry.

WCTA Home Page

They have set up a free hotline 1-888-794-WCTA. It's for reporting waste, fraud or abuse of tax dollars, but this sounds like it could lead to lost tax dollars. Either way, This may mean less money in the coffers and they may want to take a position on it.

WRobert, Do you think it's possible that WCTA may take a stand on this issue since it could affect taxes via tourism declines. This could then snowball into lost sales and TDC taxes, loss of jobs that are supported by visitors, drops in property values that could lead to increases in millage rates to support existing programs, on and on affecting all taxpayers of Walton County of which I am one.

I know the WCTA took the position to support the 1/2 cent increase in bed taxes to try and get a low cost airline into the region to increase business, etc. This looks like an opportunity for the WCTA to be a player in preserving business and a viable tax base that's completely different than the "turtle argument" or aesthetics. As we all know, when a visitor comes to the beach, they don't know if "stuff" left on a beach is a "privately-owned beach" or a "publically-owned" beach. All they know is that it looks bad and they don't like it. This could be a huge problem since the visitor return rate is over 70% and one of the ways any destination is chosen is via word of mouth from friends and family. Bad word of mouth spreads even faster. Since the WCTA has a different platform to speak from then the environmental or aesthetics one, I think it could be a very positive move for the community, and with your clout it could be a very helpful one. Thoughts?

I'm sure that two people on this message board will say that it is about principle, but we all know that this is about one stinking volleyball net on the beach in front of Edgewater.

I'm sure that two people on this message board will say that it is about principle, but we all know that this is about one stinking volleyball net on the beach in front of Edgewater.

For clarification sake, I am not talking about volleyball nets or semi-permenant, commercial structures like those at condominiums, I am talking about supporting the removal of personal tents, umbrellas, chairs, and temporary pools.

By the way, I would like to say that the condo with the volleyball net removes all their chairs, umbrellas, and trash off the beach at night and have historically supported clean beaches.
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are people just raised by wolves now? is nobody taught respect and not to litter or to leave something as you found it? why are people so selfish and entitled acting? this is really bothersome

For clarification sake, I am not talking about volleyball nets or semi-permenant, commercial structures like those at condominiums, I am talking about supporting the removal of personal tents, umbrellas, chairs, and temporary pools.

By the way, I would like to say that the condo with the volleyball net removes all their chairs, umbrellas, and trash off the beach at night and have historically supported clean beaches.
Posted via Mobile Device

Funny you should say that. I was at chez Interested Girl the other night and their beach really is clean. I saw the infamous volleyball net, quite neglected, lonely and insignificant. The big ugly at that place (other than the signs) is the terraced grass which requires so much water and fertilizers to stay deep green and lush, much of which must be leaching into the gulf. But that is another problem for another time.

Sounds like a good role model for those of us concerned with the quality of our beaches and community here.

Trashed out beaches will drive away tourists, including the ones doing the trashing, who will have to find new "undiscovered" places to leave their crap and sent up their tent condo cities. Fewer tourists + less spending in our businesses and less tax revenue. Well, I guess our beaches will certainly be clean again if nobody visits here.

As Lynnie mentioned on another thread, the Lorax teaches a lesson- good summer reading.;-)

The Sneetches, Oh, the Places You'll Go, and Green eggs and ham ain't bad either!

The Sneetches, Oh, the Places You'll Go, and Green eggs and ham ain't bad either!

Love 'em all!

So, how long will it take Walton County to revise the ordinace and get it back in force? Anyone know?

Please don't suggest licensing to set up sun protection on the beach! Accountability is good, but licensing sucks. We have too many as it is. We already have problems enforcing the existing codes.

have you seen all the chairs and umbrellas owned by a rental company left on the beach in seagrove? they have some sort of license that allows them to leave their crap on the beach. what's up with that smiley j

I believe the beach chair rental guys were all told the same as everyone else, Move it or lose it. They raised a little stink, but I think that nothing changed about the County's response. I'm pretty certain some rental chair companies would be in violation of the existing ordinance as written, but then again, the County has advised the TDC to hold off on enforcing the existing ordinance until they receive work out some kinks with the ordinance as written. I believe Edgewater condos filed suit against the County because Edgewater's volleyball net would not be in compliance, so if you want to thank anyone for causing the TDC not to remove the crap from the entire stretch of beaches in South Walton, I'm pretty sure you can direct that gratitude to Edgewater condominiums in Miramar Beach. As I said, I believe this entire ordeal is over one volleyball net, that clogged up the entire freaking system, ruining the beaches for everyone.

FL Statute on abandoned property

Title XL
REAL AND PERSONAL PROPERTY Chapter 705
LOST OR ABANDONED PROPERTY View Entire Chapter [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]705.102 Reporting lost or abandoned property.-- [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](1) Whenever any person finds any lost or abandoned property, such person shall report the description and location of the property to a law enforcement officer. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](2) The law enforcement officer taking the report shall ascertain whether the person reporting the property wishes to make a claim to it if the rightful owner cannot be identified or located. If the person does wish to make such claim, he or she shall deposit with the law enforcement agency a reasonable sum sufficient to cover the agency's cost for transportation, storage, and publication of notice. This sum shall be reimbursed to the finder by the rightful owner should he or she identify and reclaim the property. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](3) It is unlawful for any person who finds any lost or abandoned property to appropriate the same to his or her own use or to refuse to deliver the same when required. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](4) Any person who unlawfully appropriates such lost or abandoned property to his or her own use or refuses to deliver such property when required commits theft as defined in s. 812.014, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.[/SIZE]

Is that really the verbage we are talking about?

This seems like it should be for a found boat or something of much greater value than a beach chair. I can see where this wording needs help. This simply doesn't adequately apply to finding a broken shovel or a floatie blown around on the beach.

WRobert, Do you think it's possible that WCTA may take a stand on this issue since it could affect taxes via tourism declines. This could then snowball into lost sales and TDC taxes, loss of jobs that are supported by visitors, drops in property values that could lead to increases in millage rates to support existing programs, on and on affecting all taxpayers of Walton County of which I am one.

I know the WCTA took the position to support the 1/2 cent increase in bed taxes to try and get a low cost airline into the region to increase business, etc. This looks like an opportunity for the WCTA to be a player in preserving business and a viable tax base that's completely different than the "turtle argument" or aesthetics. As we all know, when a visitor comes to the beach, they don't know if "stuff" left on a beach is a "privately-owned beach" or a "publically-owned" beach. All they know is that it looks bad and they don't like it. This could be a huge problem since the visitor return rate is over 70% and one of the ways any destination is chosen is via word of mouth from friends and family. Bad word of mouth spreads even faster. Since the WCTA has a different platform to speak from then the environmental or aesthetics one, I think it could be a very positive move for the community, and with your clout it could be a very helpful one. Thoughts?

You need to do some more studying. The WCTA never supported the tax increase. That is just the propaganda put out by the TDC. The WCTA did support efforts to bring in a low cost airlines. We were told that they would have to do the tax increase to accomplish the tasks because they had no dollars. Were told that by board members also. Have since understood that they had over 13 million dollars in an unrestricted reserve account that could have been used.

Why doesn't the TDC take up marking the private/public beaches so that tourists can be educated?

As for the abandoned property on public property, I believe that there are already statutes in place that cover that. I have posted the one that I found. But it is going to create a nightmare for disposing of the stuff.

As for your question, I will ask when we have a board meeting and let you know.

I believe the beach chair rental guys were all told the same as everyone else, Move it or lose it. They raised a little stink, but I think that nothing changed about the County's response. I'm pretty certain some rental chair companies would be in violation of the existing ordinance as written, but then again, the County has advised the TDC to hold off on enforcing the existing ordinance until they receive work out some kinks with the ordinance as written. I believe Edgewater condos filed suit against the County because Edgewater's volleyball net would not be in compliance, so if you want to thank anyone for causing the TDC not to remove the crap from the entire stretch of beaches in South Walton, I'm pretty sure you can direct that gratitude to Edgewater condominiums in Miramar Beach. As I said, I believe this entire ordeal is over one volleyball net, that clogged up the entire freaking system, ruining the beaches for everyone.

<Cue music, Star Spangled Banner in background>

I do want to thank the folks at Edgewater Condominimums for standing up to tyranny. Sometimes the results of freedom are not what we would want. I for one, am not happy about it. But over 200 years ago a group of people pledged their lives to put together a document that has created one of the greatest countries ever known to man. They realized that certain rights are ordained from our creator, and they wrote those down and built a country around them. And the patriots at Edgewater recognized that the government was violating those principles and took action to stop them. And government, in a typical response, over reacted in the other direction. They stopped all enforcement instead of just staying off private property. So I do not hold Edgewater at fault. The fault lies with a lack of leadership at the local level. There is already much that could be done to rectify the situation. The people are in place to do so, and it could be done well within current statutes instead of having to create new ones.


All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson <Music off>

Love 'em all!

So, how long will it take Walton County to revise the ordinace and get it back in force? Anyone know?

From what I am hearing not too long. A Code Enforcement officer told me that they would probably be the ones picking things up in the not to distant future. But after reading all the stuff on abandoned property, I do not know how they are going to handle it. I would think they would tote the stuff to the TDC and let local law enforcement know it was abandoned, then hold it for a period of time before disposal.

Title XL
REAL AND PERSONAL PROPERTY Chapter 705
LOST OR ABANDONED PROPERTY View Entire Chapter [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]705.102 Reporting lost or abandoned property.-- [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](1) Whenever any person finds any lost or abandoned property, such person shall report the description and location of the property to a law enforcement officer. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](2) The law enforcement officer taking the report shall ascertain whether the person reporting the property wishes to make a claim to it if the rightful owner cannot be identified or located. If the person does wish to make such claim, he or she shall deposit with the law enforcement agency a reasonable sum sufficient to cover the agency's cost for transportation, storage, and publication of notice. This sum shall be reimbursed to the finder by the rightful owner should he or she identify and reclaim the property. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](3) It is unlawful for any person who finds any lost or abandoned property to appropriate the same to his or her own use or to refuse to deliver the same when required. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](4) Any person who unlawfully appropriates such lost or abandoned property to his or her own use or refuses to deliver such property when required commits theft as defined in s. 812.014, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.[/SIZE]

Great. So, am I reading correctly that all one needs to do is drag crap left on the beach after sunset (abandoned, as defined by posted signs at the public accesses) to the vicinity of a trash can, call the cops, let them know what you did, that you have no use for beach crap and be done with it?

A phone pitch might be "Hello, Mr Deputy, my name is Joe Craphauler and I am reporting that I hauled some abandoned crap to the trash can at the wedon'ttoleratecrap access. I have no use for that crap, so no need to worry about looking for the owner. Have a nice day!"

Of course, if some idiot leaves a Rolex on the beach, Craphauler might arrange to leave a few bucks with the clerk of court to cover an ad in the Defuniak Herald.

Here is another wrinkle. According to State Statute, not all of the stuff left on the beach is abandoned. Quite a bit of it would be considered lost. And if it is lost, there are a whole different set of rules that must be complied with. And it looks like the Sheriff's Dept would have to be involved in the issue. FS 705.1015 does give the county the authority to let Code Enforcement work on this issue. Interesting that all of these things are already laid out in Statute that we could have been following for years and not even got involved in this Leave No Trace controversy.


Title XL
REAL AND PERSONAL PROPERTY Chapter 705
LOST OR ABANDONED PROPERTY View Entire Chapter [SIZE=-1]705.101 Definitions.--As used in this chapter: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](1) "Local government" means the board of county commissioners of a county or the commission or council of any municipality in the county. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](2) "Lost property" means all tangible personal property which does not have an identifiable owner and which has been mislaid on public property, upon a public conveyance, on premises used at the time for business purposes, or in parks, places of amusement, public recreation areas, or other places open to the public in a substantially operable, functioning condition or which has an apparent intrinsic value to the rightful owner. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](3) "Abandoned property" means all tangible personal property that does not have an identifiable owner and that has been disposed on public property in a wrecked, inoperative, or partially dismantled condition or has no apparent intrinsic value to the rightful owner. The term includes derelict vessels as defined in s. 823.11(1). [/SIZE]

Here is another wrinkle. According to State Statute, not all of the stuff left on the beach is abandoned. Quite a bit of it would be considered lost. And if it is lost, there are a whole different set of rules that must be complied with. And it looks like the Sheriff's Dept would have to be involved in the issue. FS 705.1015 does give the county the authority to let Code Enforcement work on this issue. Interesting that all of these things are already laid out in Statute that we could have been following for years and not even got involved in this Leave No Trace controversy.


Title XL
REAL AND PERSONAL PROPERTY Chapter 705
LOST OR ABANDONED PROPERTY View Entire Chapter [SIZE=-1]705.101 Definitions.--As used in this chapter: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](1) "Local government" means the board of county commissioners of a county or the commission or council of any municipality in the county. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](2) "Lost property" means all tangible personal property which does not have an identifiable owner and which has been mislaid on public property, upon a public conveyance, on premises used at the time for business purposes, or in parks, places of amusement, public recreation areas, or other places open to the public in a substantially operable, functioning condition or which has an apparent intrinsic value to the rightful owner. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](3) "Abandoned property" means all tangible personal property that does not have an identifiable owner and that has been disposed on public property in a wrecked, inoperative, or partially dismantled condition or has no apparent intrinsic value to the rightful owner. The term includes derelict vessels as defined in s. 823.11(1). [/SIZE]

Darn that old private property thing keeps getting in the way.
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Here is another wrinkle. According to State Statute, not all of the stuff left on the beach is abandoned. Quite a bit of it would be considered lost. And if it is lost, there are a whole different set of rules that must be complied with. And it looks like the Sheriff's Dept would have to be involved in the issue. FS 705.1015 does give the county the authority to let Code Enforcement work on this issue. Interesting that all of these things are already laid out in Statute that we could have been following for years and not even got involved in this Leave No Trace controversy.


Title XL
REAL AND PERSONAL PROPERTY Chapter 705
LOST OR ABANDONED PROPERTY View Entire Chapter [SIZE=-1]705.101 Definitions.--As used in this chapter: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](1) "Local government" means the board of county commissioners of a county or the commission or council of any municipality in the county. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](2) "Lost property" means all tangible personal property which does not have an identifiable owner and which has been mislaid on public property, upon a public conveyance, on premises used at the time for business purposes, or in parks, places of amusement, public recreation areas, or other places open to the public in a substantially operable, functioning condition or which has an apparent intrinsic value to the rightful owner. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](3) "Abandoned property" means all tangible personal property that does not have an identifiable owner and that has been disposed on public property in a wrecked, inoperative, or partially dismantled condition or has no apparent intrinsic value to the rightful owner. The term includes derelict vessels as defined in s. 823.11(1). [/SIZE]

I don't see the beach crap as 'lost' by the definition above. There is nothing 'mislaid' about something put out intentionally to add to enjoyment, ie, tents, chairs, buckets, pools, volleyball nets or whatever. If anything, such debris is willfully left behind (and doesn't appear to be legally 'abandoned' as the rule above seems to relate to maritime wreckage and other debris) and might better be defined as 'litter' once the sun sets.

403.413 Florida Litter Law

(1) SHORT TITLE.--This section may be cited as the "Florida Litter Law."

(2) DEFINITIONS.--As used in this section: (a) "Litter" means any garbage; rubbish; trash; refuse; can; bottle; box; container; paper; tobacco product; tire; appliance; mechanical equipment or part; building or construction material; tool; machinery; wood; motor vehicle or motor vehicle part; vessel; aircraft; farm machinery or equipment; sludge from a waste treatment facility, water supply treatment plant, or air pollution control facility; or substance in any form resulting from domestic, industrial, commercial, mining, agricultural, or governmental operations.

I don't see the beach crap as 'lost' by the definition above. There is nothing 'mislaid' about something put out intentionally to add to enjoyment, ie, tents, chairs, buckets, pools, volleyball nets or whatever. If anything, such debris is willfully left behind (and doesn't appear to be legally 'abandoned' as the rule above seems to relate to maritime wreckage and other debris) and might better be defined as 'litter' once the sun sets.

403.413 Florida Litter Law

(1) SHORT TITLE.--This section may be cited as the "Florida Litter Law."

(2) DEFINITIONS.--As used in this section: (a) "Litter" means any garbage; rubbish; trash; refuse; can; bottle; box; container; paper; tobacco product; tire; appliance; mechanical equipment or part; building or construction material; tool; machinery; wood; motor vehicle or motor vehicle part; vessel; aircraft; farm machinery or equipment; sludge from a waste treatment facility, water supply treatment plant, or air pollution control facility; or substance in any form resulting from domestic, industrial, commercial, mining, agricultural, or governmental operations.

Lost or abandoned, current statute allows code enforcement to start picking up stuff off the public beaches immediately once the BCC tells them to do so. So now we wait. While that will not solve the whole problem, it will go a long way toward a solution while the public/private property thing is being worked out.

Back to the chair vendor thing...

Until this year, TN Jed was the only vendor serving the Eastern Lake area in Seagrove. I can vouch for him abiding by the ordinance - there were many times I saw him breaking down in the evening and setting up again the next morning.

This spring, another vendor has started renting at the Eastern Lake area. They aren't quite as, shall we say, law-abiding.

One thing I've observed is that the vacation renters tend to follow the lead of the chair vendors. When the chair vendors started setting up closer to the water, bingo, the vacationers did too.

I do wish folks would set up their chairs to leave a path at the waters edge where so many people like to walk..

wrobert, what do the State Statutes say about littering on the beach?

Seems to me that much of this crap is nothing more than litter. Do I need to call a deputy to report every piece of litter I see on the beach, before disposing of it? Maybe we should all start doing that, so that action is immediately taken.