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Lowering the speed limit on 30A?

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SGBBeach Fanatic
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A speed bump on 30A... As citizens strive to lower speed limit, bigger plans emerge | 30a, speed, change - Local News - WaltonSun.com


A SPEED BUMP ON 30A: As citizens strive to lower speed limit, bigger plans emerge
January 08, 2010 10:30 AM
By Matt Algarin

Will 45 be a thing of the past on 30A?

Friends of Scenic 30A and members of the public gathered on Jan. 4 to discuss lowering the speed limit on 30A to 35 mph for the entire 18.5 mile stretch. The change would let low-speed vehicles, like street-modified golf carts, share the roadway with cars.

Bill Freeze, Chairperson for the Friends, believes the change will have nothing but positive end results.

?These beaches have been voted as one of the 12 best places to see in 2010.? Freeze said. ?We have noticed that we need to educate the tourists and the residents about what we have here in paradise.?

Freeze added that LSVs have to be registered and licensed, which will provide additional income for the county.

About two dozen supportive residents and industry experts gathered to hear the proposals made by the group.

In order for an electric cart or LSV to share the roadway with cars, the speed limit can be no greater than 35 mph. There are currently four miles of roadway on 30A where the speed limit is 45 mph.

In addition to allowing LSVs to traverse the roadway, supporters say the change would help to alleviate some of the traffic by encouraging motorists who are in a hurry to use the feeder roads that run north and south to get to their destinations.

Graham Fountain, chief of special operations for the Sheriff?s Office, clarified that this only pertains to electric carts, not golf carts.

?Because it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but it?s a goose,? Fountain said while describing that anyone who is caught driving a gas-powered cart on 30A would be ticketed.

?The sheriff?s office will be taking a neutral position on the topic,? Fountain said of the speed-limit change. ?We haven?t pulled traffic (data) to see how many crashes involved these types of vehicles.?

?We do have some concerns because 30A is a little atypical than the usual roads you may do this on,? Fountain added. ?When the building starts up again on 30A you are going to have a lot more dump trucks and mixers going up and down the road.?

Tim Paul, who is a former district five commissioner and developer of Topsail Village on 30A, said changing the speed limit should be the first step.

?I think the whole idea is to have a complete system,? Pauls said. ?You shouldn?t have to only be able to use your LSV on 30A. You should actually be able to make a useful trip with it.?

Tom Stein, the Director for the Friends of Scenic 30A, agreed.

Stein said he ?has always had a lifetime interest in public transit and was a cable car grip man in San Francisco for four years.

?With my background in public transit and in addition to living here for the past 30 years or so watching the traffic load increase here on 30A,? Stein said, ?it has led me to the conclusion that some kind of public transit needs to be established on 30A.?

Stein said that the time is imminent and that something has to happen now.

The Friends of Scenic 30A will be holding another public forum on the first Monday in February to discuss updates on traffic crashes and the price tag for redesigning 30A for a bike path and low speed vehicles.

Replies

285
Will B avatar
Will BModerator
#252
The cyclists aka "bicyclists", need to stay on the BIKE PATH. That is what what millions of dollars were spent for... people to ride their bicycles, whether you consider yourself a "professional" or not.

First...thank you for saying that you are always careful around the cyclists.

I know this has been hashed out numerous times here, but as a part time Spandex clad cyclist, I can tell you that the two main reasons that we stay on 30A are the hugely disparate speeds between road bikes and beach cruisers (hmmm...sounds familiar) and, more importantly, the path is far less safe for road bikes than dodging cars on 30A. The tires on road bikes are inflated to 125psi. With all the trash, rocks, broken shells, etc on the path a blown tire is a forgone conclusion. Plus, all of the planking on the path bridges is in horrible shape with big splinters and nail heads protruding from the wood. If I'm out for a leisurely ride with the wife, I'm on the path, but if I'm out to exercise where I'm riding above 20mph, I'm on the road.

Sorry to hijack the thread for a post...

Edited

robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#253
First...thank you for saying that you are always careful around the cyclists.

I know this has been hashed out numerous times here, but as a part time Spandex clad cyclist, I can tell you that the two main reasons that we stay on 30A are the hugely disparate speeds between road bikes and beach cruisers (hmmm...sounds familiar) and, more importantly, the path is far less safe for road bikes than dodging cars on 30A. The tires on road bikes are inflated to 125psi. With all the trash, rocks, broken shells, etc on the path a blown tire is a forgone conclusion. Plus, all of the planking on the path bridges is in horrible shape with big splinters and nail heads protruding from the wood. If I'm out for a leisurely ride with the wife, I'm on the path, but if I'm out to exercise where I'm riding above 20mph, I'm on the road.

Sorry to hijack the thread for a post...


Hey, don't apologize for joining the discussion, just because some want to take their ball and go home, and stifle a good discussion.

Your observations are good to share, and your insights are very reasonable. I'm pro cyclist, although many are obviously not. I think 30A is a resort area, and a resort highway... I like coming across a pack of cyclists and slowing down for a brief stretch... I like riding through Seaside and Seagrove at 10MPH due to pedestrians carrying ice cream cones - I deal with well and I think I'm in the majority of users of the area. I realize y'all CANNOT pull over because of the racing bike tire issue - big deal, it costs me 15 to 20 seconds usually. Cyclists, LSV's and Pedestrians are a part of the scene and the vision really of the area ... slow down when you come across them, or pedestrians in the numerous towns up and down 30A.
We ought not ban cyclists from 30A, anymore than we would outlaw children with dripping ice cream cones dawdling across 30A both inside designated crossings and not inside those designated crossings.
BotesBeach Comber
#254
Ok, so i just wasted to much of life reading this thread. But to make myself feel better, I went and took a drive down 30-A, and pleasantly did not have to drive behind an LSV. I'll be straight up, it is a convenience thing. 😀
Matt J avatar
Matt JSWGB
#255
Just for the record, if any elected officials might be reading this, robertsondavies doesn't live here or own property. I'm betting he's not registered to vote either.
Andy A avatar
Andy ABeach Fanatic
#256
Just for the record, if any elected officials might be reading this, robertsondavies doesn't live here or own property. I'm betting he's not registered to vote either.
Well, that seems to say a lot, doesn't it?
scooterbug44 avatar
scooterbug44SoWal Expert
#257
Well, that seems to say a lot, doesn't it?
Certainly explains why he doesn't understand that one frequently HAS to use 30-A to get from point A to B.

I started making a list - my hairdresser, dentist, bank, post office, favorite bars, favorite restaurants, favorite shops, stockbroker, groceries (farmer's market, for the health of it, WC publix, chan's), garden store, coffee shop, golf courses, specialty stores, and majority of the events I attend and my friends are on 30-A.

I use 98 to go out of town, for seafood at Shrimper's, accountant once a year, the library, gov't business, the doctor (which used to be on 30-a), and to see friends in PW/north of 98.
nr light avatar
nr lightBeach Comber
#258
Just for the record, if any elected officials might be reading this, robertsondavies doesn't live here or own property. I'm betting he's not registered to vote either.

So I guess that's all we've got now. Basically all Naysayers of LSVs have one argument. "Wa-wa-wa I don't want to be inconvenienced." And my only response to that is I'm Sorry.
I am sorry that these tourists are "Fueling" our economy is such a way that inconveniences you.
I'm sorry that our lovely emerald coast is so beautiful that people (homeowners included) want to enjoy it by taking a slower, safe drive down one of the most scenic highways on the panhandle.
I am sorry that the simple pleasures of another inconvenience you by less than a minute.
But I am truly sorry that we can't even have a DISCUSSION about it without attacking one another personally.
Desso avatar
DessoBeach Lover
#259
nr-light, you have to realize this crowd really doesn't like know-it-all visitors/tourist/part-timers who pop down once or a few times a year and expect the world to revolve around them. So much has changed for the locals, whatever their delusions, they have very little control over it. It leads to a great deal of pissing and moaning about the most trivial issues. It's like having rude, obnoxious guest for months on end and guess what they'll be back. It is a tourist economy, and unfortunately there are going to be many more things coming down the pike that people will not like. You think it's bad now wait t'ill the economy is really back, and "Paradise" gets more crowded, more traffic, more, more, more. The LSV debate will be trivial at that point.

Edited

scooterbug44 avatar
scooterbug44SoWal Expert
#261
"This crowd" is composed of a blend of natives, full time residents, 2nd home owners, and frequent or occasional visitors. :roll:
Matt J avatar
Matt JSWGB
#262
Anybody else smell trial lawyers on this thread?
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#263
Ok, so i just wasted to much of life reading this thread. But to make myself feel better, I went and took a drive down 30-A, and pleasantly did not have to drive behind an LSV. I'll be straight up, it is a convenience thing. 😀

FINALLY, an honest answer I can respect for its honesty. I'll be straight up and tell you we can actually carve out an easy compromise to this, and you can keep your convenience.

Really all that matters in my mind, is the 2 stinking miles (or blissful if you're in a car) of 45MPH at Deer Lake, which bisects 95% of the real destinations in South Walton, like a knife, and makes 40% of it (Rosemary,Seacrest,Alys,Camp Creek, cut off, from the other 60%, Seagrove/Seaside/Watercolor/Grayton/BMB.

All we need are either 1) 2 mandatory pull offs along that stretch for cyclists or LSV's going 35MPH or less.. OR 2 ) a separated lane to the right on that stretch, which LSV's and cycylists must detour on, and put the bikepath, even further away from the 55MPH cars on that stretch.

Anyhow, a compromise is possible here, to preserve that convenience
John R avatar
John Rneeds to get out more
#264
Finally? You've gotten honest answers already. It seems to me that if you get an answer you don't like, or agree with, then it must not be honest. That's sad. You would have more asphalt laid to support your green alternative? Interesting.

Happy Easter.
Geo avatar
GeoBeach Fanatic
#265
I echo John R's remarks. Rdavies and Nrlight,
I would venture to guess that 9 out of 10 people down here (whether full time residents, part timers or occasional visitors) believe that common sense dictates that you keep golf carts of highways and that it is ridonkulous to lower posted speed limits so that a couple people can take their golf carts to Stinkys or Red Bar.

You are entitled to your opinion and can squak all u want but what are u trying to accomplish by continuing?
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#266
Finally? You've gotten honest answers already. It seems to me that if you get an answer you don't like, or agree with, then it must not be honest. That's sad. You would have more asphalt laid to support your green alternative? Interesting.

Happy Easter.

Don't have to be a smartazz, JOHN R. The poster him or herself labeled it "I'll be "HONEST" and level with you" ... not sure if you read that. It was nice to see someone honestly put to the board the REAL reason for most opposition -

If you go against SWGB and a few others on here, you will get ganged up on. Read the thread, just the facts.. I'm not in the 5 million posts club, hence I am told to move to Sandestin, end the thread, and I'm told I own an LSV dealership, etc etc. Weird **** coming from what you would guess are liberal minds.

Oh no you just can't disagree with SWGB - --- the horror... :yikes:
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#267
nr-light, you have to realize this crowd really doesn't like know-it-all visitors/tourist/part-timers who pop down once or a few times a year and expect the world to revolve around them. So much has changed for the locals, whatever their delusions, they have very little control over it. It leads to a great deal of pissing and moaning about the most trivial issues. It's like having rude, obnoxious guest for months on end and guess what they'll be back. It is a tourist economy, and unfortunately there are going to be many more things coming down the pike that people will not like. You think it's bad now wait t'ill the economy is really back, and "Paradise" gets more crowded, more traffic, more, more, more. The LSV debate will be trivial at that point.

Desso, you've hit the nail on the head in a lot of ways. Watch out.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#268
Just for the record, if any elected officials might be reading this, robertsondavies doesn't live here or own property. I'm betting he's not registered to vote either.

We're going to wager on things? Cool, I love to gamble.

If any elected officials might be reading this, SWGB probably lives here and may pay a few tax dollars, not sure about this so I won't bet on it.

I will wager you this however.. SWGB's odds of voting for you as a Republican are lower than your odds on winning Powerball, though the chance is there statistically. I'll wager that not only is SWGB a card carrying democrat, that further he is on the liberal end of the Democrat wagon. and here SWGB stands with the SUV on the one hand, and against drilling for oil on the other. There is a political wedge opportunity here for you to exploit. Get busy.

I'll also wager that SWGB is wrong about me. I do pay taxes here, property and sales and use, and I DO own property here.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#269
I echo John R's remarks. Rdavies and Nrlight,
I would venture to guess that 9 out of 10 people down here (whether full time residents, part timers or occasional visitors) believe that common sense dictates that you keep golf carts of highways and that it is ridonkulous to lower posted speed limits so that a couple people can take their golf carts to Stinkys or Red Bar.

You are entitled to your opinion and can squak all u want but what are u trying to accomplish by continuing?



Hey we who support LSV usage on 30A are supposed to be entitled to our opinions - isn't that an inalienable right thingy? I appreciate yours and many others concerns and opinions too. I also think there is a middle ground solution.

What do I hope to accomplish? SIMPLE - I hope to either lower the 2 mile stretch at Deer Lake to 35MPH and put a couple pull off areas on that stretch for cyclists and LSVs, or I'd like to leave it at 45MPH to preserve the convenience of it for those that need it, but install a 3rd path on that stretch for LSVs and slow cyclists to detour onto before reaching 35MPH areas on either side.

Common sense says that 40 some state legistlatures approved LSV statutes, encouraing their use on roadways of 35MPH or lower speed limits. Common sense and dollars and cents will show what insurance companies actuaries think of LSV's safety record. A common sense investigation will also reveal that after taking into account the pro's and con's nearly every environmental group is PRO - LSV, from the Sierra Club to you name it. I don't agree that 9 out of 10 agree with you that 30A must be the provence of the big carbon powered vehicles only, but it depends how you frame the question, and depends what group you survey. All I see are SUV's right now in South Walton, as far as the eye can see. To me, I think there are better alternatives, and encouraging LSVs is not the end goal, just one part of a bridge to the future of the area.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#270
I think today or tomorrow, or even Wednesday would be a great day for you and robertsondavies to come and sit and watch the traffic in SS(vehicular and pedestrian, and bicycle) Then you could offer a firsthand opinion regarding your position on LSV's on 30A. It may be a bit different.

I did come and take a look. Here is what I see. GMC Yukons, GMC Yukon XLs, Chevrolet Tahoe, Chevrolet Suburbans, Nissan Armadas, Pathfinders, Land Rover Range Rovers, Land Rover Land Rovers, Toyota Sequoiyas, Toyota Siennas, Honda Oddysseys, a bunch of pedestrians, hard core cyclists, and bike riders... and a couple LSVs. I wish it were 95% LSVs instead of 95% SUV's until the day we all ride magic carpets or walk everywhere.

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