Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]

I think the common theme all of us can agree on is that of the Beach Vendors, agree?

If so, we now have a common thread to all champion.

I have my opines, that's clear, but if we all agree on the Vendor issue, why not attack that now, upfront and united?

Im on board. Anyone else?

I'm In

Anyone been watching PCB tv news? Well they want Popup tents removed from the beach their BCC or TDC gave them a week to make it happen...Now that's earning your pay and solving voters request....No Kicking The Can Down the Road in Bay County. Also they have solved vendor problem...move them ALL
Back 20' from wet sand....Oh, but hey they have renourished beaches...

Tv scene

I think the common theme all of us can agree on is that of the Beach Vendors, agree?

If so, we now have a common thread to all champion.

I have my opines, that's clear, but if we all agree on the Vendor issue, why not attack that now, upfront and united?

Im on board. Anyone else?

When you alienate half this boards population with your hostility and sarcasm and constant harsh and unwarranted criticism of all things Sheriff Adkinson...I seriously doubt you'll find anyone willing to board your sinking raft!

Time to make a stand in the sand

Tallahassee Democrat
Opinion Column

Time to make a stand in the sand
Dave Rauschkolb, My View 4:16 p.m. EDT May 25, 2016

It is important to be good neighbors. Sharing the resources we hold dear in all of Florida – and where I live, in South Walton County – is critical to the well-being of our citizens, visitors and economic interests.

It appears that South Walton County could become Florida’s ground zero in the private beach vs. customary use conflict. In the past few years, a handful of beachfront homeowners has grown into a coordinated group determined to claim the sand behind their homes as private. This group wishes to allow no use of the “private” dry sandy areas for the public to participate in customary recreational activities. They are placing “No Trespassing” signs, ropes and chains across the beaches.

All the beaches of South Walton and Florida have been uninterrupted in their human use for many centuries. A doctrine of “Customary Use” gives all of us reasonable access and enjoyment on private and public beaches.

In deference to beachfront homeowners, I agree that certain unsavory activities that may occur on the beaches behind their homes must and should be regulated. Those regulations – exercised with appropriate action by law enforcement – should be all the insurance beachfront homeowners need to ensure peaceable, customary beach activities behind their homes anywhere on Florida’s beaches. In Walton County there is a Beach Activities Ordinance in place that already addresses this.

I challenge the Florida Legislature and the governor to work to together and finally adopt a law guaranteeing Customary Use for all Florida’s citizens and visitors. It is clearly the right thing to do and far, far overdue.

Customary use, which is the law of the sand in Hawaii, Oregon and Texas, grants permanent public access based on ancient, peaceful, uninterrupted and reasonable use of the beach by the public. One would hope Florida could adopt a similar law.

It is critical that the sandy areas of Florida’s beaches are open for all to enjoy; our tourist driven economy is dependent on this perception and reality. Any threat to our beach access and use is a threat to our local and statewide tourism driven economy. As a business owner in South Walton County for over 30 years, I take that threat very seriously.

I encourage the handful of beachfront homeowners who are pushing to limit access to our beaches to save their money and stand down. South Walton and Florida residents and visitors will never allow our beaches to have limited access and use.

Until a few years ago this was never an issue, and people enjoyed every grain of sand on our beaches without intimidation. I am sure most people feel strongly enough about defending our right to enjoy Florida’s beaches to see this fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court if necessary.

Let us come together and stop fighting over the sand, and go back to enjoying the beaches with our families and friends as we always have.

Dave Rauschkolb is a beach lover, and property and business owner in Walton County.

When you alienate half this boards population with your hostility and sarcasm and constant harsh and unwarranted criticism of all things Sheriff Adkinson...I seriously doubt you'll find anyone willing to board your sinking raft!

My posts are based in fact. Sheriff Mike has a very basic problem, called selective enforcement. Nothing more nothing less.

Show me where I've ever personally attacked him. Not gonna find it, but there could be room for that, not my style.

As for my raft, its not full of Haitians, it's actually more like a cruise boat with lots of people paying to come on board.

I've invited u to join the cause against Beach Vendors, do you accept?

Seems like some very basic common ground we can all stand for.

Or are you going to continue to defend the selective enforcement of this administration? He's now gone through how many Majors?

Someone told me yesterday that Walton County was going to ban tents and it didn't surprise me. To many left overnight or abandoned completely.

We should also ban the giant flags while. We ate at it. And what not limit signs to a square foot or so until private very public issue is settled. And no ropes or chains.

Or are you going to continue to defend the selective enforcement of this administration? He's now gone through how many Majors?

I have not defended the Adkinson Administration...actually, the Sheriff does that quite succinctly without any help from me. He is running for re-election UNOPPOSED! You wanna know what I love about his campaign aside from the fact he is running UNOPPOSED? You won't see his campaign SIGNS cluttering SoWal or anywhere else in the county for that matter because he hasn't used any! That's ENVIRONMENTALLY friendly and doesn't alienate the people he wants on his side of any given issue.

Don't know about the Majors and I know even less about what that has to do with who owns the sand on our beaches but it's soooooooo typical of you to bring up something that has nothing to do with this thread in yet another attempt to derail the conversation,

As for the vendor issue, I do agree the umbrella and unused chair set-ups are grotesque and unsightly and I hate the site of beautiful images of our coastline dotted with blue umbrellas which I think takes away from the breathtakingly beautiful images of our beaches. It's just my opinion and I don't know this for a fact but I think the reason Panama City Beach was so successful in moving vendors back 20 ' from the wet sand is probably because they don't have a County Commissioner on their board with a vested interest (C. Jones & son) in keeping things just the way they are. I do want to wish everyone who jumps aboard your dinghy the best though. I have been on the receiving end of the Jones wrath once before and honestly, I'm just ornery enough to punch someone in the face if it happened again or maybe just older and wiser about my rights and personal space but in any case, I'd need an attorney and bail money. I sorta kinda pride myself on never having seen the inside of the new Walton County Jail and only saw the booking station at the old one...under my own volition.

I don't think our beaches should be open for business with vending. We've seen what it looks like, that it's out of control and it's completely changed the look and feel of your experience on the beach. And not in a good way.

When going to the beach it is important to avoid conflict with the few beach front homeowners who actually might verbally attack you for exercising your right to the customary use of the beach. They have nothing if we ALL remain resolute and immune to their attempts to anger us. Smile at them, be polite and perhaps tell them to "have a nice day." Say it, show it and mean it without condescension "It's a beautiful day for the beach" It is important to avoid dispute and show customary use according to Tona Rama vs Daytona beach Supreme court decision.

"If the recreational use of the sandy area adjacent to mean high tide has been ancient, reasonable, without interruption and free from dispute, such use, as a matter of custom, should not be interfered with by the owner. However, the owner may make any use of his property which is consistent with such public use and not calculated to interfere with the exercise of the right of the public to enjoy the dry sand area as a recreational adjunct of the wet sand or foreshore area."

Yesterday I had the experience of being told the spot we picked for our beach chairs was on "Private Property". This at the Eastern Lake Beach area so you can draw your own conclusions where we were. I looked the gent straight in the eyes and said "Fine" and I will move to the high water line mark which was roughly 5 feet away ! I had a good friend with me and elected not to ask for any documentation or where his signs were. Pleasant enough exchange between both parties but 5 feet away? INSANE!! Not sure I would have handled this in the same manner if it were just the wife and I....

I don't think our beaches should be open for business with vending. We've seen what it looks like and it's completely changed the look and feel of your experience on the beach. And not in a good way.

I agree.
Look what happened to crab island in Destin once "services" were allowed.

I had some relatives come down and they stayed in Sandestin. Don't even TRY to see the beach there. It is UNREAL with the chair set ups. And it's 60.00 per day. 30.00 for the chairs and 30.00 for the umbrella. lol! Kind of wish I had jumped on the beach chair business wagon years ago. ; )

This photo was posted by a turtle watch volunteer yesterday. Fencing, pvc pipes and rope all along several beach front homes and condos. Why isn't the county removing these immediately?

Follow South Walton Turtle Watch on Facebook. They see it all.

I had some relatives come down and they stayed in Sandestin. Don't even TRY to see the beach there. It is UNREAL with the chair set ups. And it's 60.00 per day. 30.00 for the chairs and 30.00 for the umbrella. lol! Kind of wish I had jumped on the beach chair business wagon years ago. ; )

http://sowal.com/webcam/sandestin-beachcam

Some people love to be in the middle of the action.

Beach chair and umbrella setups belong at resorts and big condos. If you love to walk out and rent your space and enjoy lots of other people doing the same then go there. It's a long time beach tradition that many enjoy and expect..

You can also find crazy crowds at many other non resort beaches. Only problem is the setups have become common practice at these public places too. Crazy. Harder to find a nice, quiet spot where you can just enjoy the beach on your own little chair or towel.

Our state parks are going to be more important to us than ever.

Vendors part of the problem...YES
Home owners signing away a right they don't legally have ( claiming to the wet sand) to these vendors who don't have the vacant seat law to deal with..YES..
Really don't understand home owners who mostly are not here and Can't rent out houses wanting 20 umbrellas in their back yard..
Visit BMB public access to see this western fiasco.if you can find a parking space...lol

This photo was posted by a turtle watch volunteer yesterday. Fencing, pvc pipes and rope all along several beach front homes and condos. Why isn't the county removing these immediately?

Follow South Walton Turtle Watch on Facebook. They see it all.

View attachment 60419

Teresa,

The land development code for Walton County specifically addresses lighting in regard to protecting/establishing a conservation zone to protect sea turtles nesting sites but makes no mention what-so-ever about obstructions (fences, ropes, chains, pvc and/or other articles) used by "alleged" property owners in regard to items placed on the beach which could impede the safety zone and protection of sea turtles. (Maybe this is part of the problem?)
See : http://www.co.walton.fl.us/DocumentCenter/Home/View/694

State Statues aren't much better.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

P.S. "Leave no Trace" is monitored by Code Enforcement which most here agree is pretty lax.
"It shall be unlawful for items generally used for swimming, sunbathing, or beach recreation to remain on the beach between one (1) hour after dusk and one (1) hour after sunrise, except otherwise permitted in this ordinance. As used in this section, the phrase “generally used for swimming, sunbathing, or beach recreation“ shall include, but not be limited to, beach chairs, umbrellas, tents (including tent frames), hammocks, volleyball nets, picnic tables and tiki huts."

Teresa,

The land development code for Walton County specifically addresses lighting in regard to protecting/establishing a conservation zone to protect sea turtles nesting sites but makes no mention what-so-ever about obstructions (fences, ropes, chains, pvc and/or other articles) used by "alleged" property owners in regard to items placed on the beach which could impede the safety zone and protection of sea turtles. (Maybe this is part of the problem?)
See : http://www.co.walton.fl.us/DocumentCenter/Home/View/694

State Statues aren't much better.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Also says nothing left on the beach over night.....they should ALL be cleaned up each night..that's not going to happen..Deputy Fiffe and cohorts to scared to enforce.heck then don't even pick up Vendor chairs stored in the Snakey dunes

Also says nothing left on the beach over night.....they should ALL be cleaned up each night..that's not going to happen..Deputy Fiffe and cohorts to scared to enforce.heck then don't even pick up Vendor chairs stored in the Snakey dunes

I agree code enforcement is BS but I think the language of the codes is more the problem because it doesn't address fencing.

I suppose fencing and ropes are new endeavors which are going to have to be addressed immediately. I do hope. This is not a good look, is dangerous, interferes with sea turtles and is just a mean thing to do.

I suppose fencing and ropes are new endeavors which are going to have to be addressed immediately. I do hope. This is not a good look, is dangerous, interferes with sea turtles and is just a mean thing to do.

In addition to the reasons you cite, clearly defining ones alleged property boarder(S), is also part of the SOP. You forgot that one...

Ha! I'm watching Sandestin chair rats scurry onto the beach now.

This Letter To the Editor appears in this weeks DeFuniak Herald

Editor,

On May 26, 2015, Walton County Sheriff Mike Adkinsonimplemented a Standard Operating Procedure (#15-004) “to provide direction to members when answering calls for service related to allege trespassing on private property on Gulf front beaches in Walton County.”

The SOP states in Section VII. Enforcement: “If residents of Walton County wish to have trespass laws enforced on their coastal properties, the Sheriff’s Office will need several documents…copy of owner’s deed (certified copy preferred)…copy of Plat…copy of driver’s license…A signed, sealed and certified survey by and submitted to Florida Department of Environmental Protection…The property boundaries of the upland owners property are adequately marked on the ground indicating the boundary between the mean-high water line and their upland property. The Erosion Control Line must also be shown on the survey…and property staked in the event the owner’s property has such line established thereon by FDEP.”

Section VII: “Deputies may enforce trespass laws on identified private property in the area inland of the wet sand area on gulf front beaches which have not been nourished, provided they receive copies of the documents required in this SOP.”...”Deputies may exercise their discretion in enforcing trespass laws, but may not physically arrest anyone for trespassing on such beach areas. A Notice to Appear may be issued…but only if the owner or agent….is present to sign an affidavit of complaint…”

And finally, “all deputies shall use discretion in making decisions to cite anyone for trespassing on beach areas, based on circumstances of each particular case.”

Seems pretty clear that the Sheriff’s Office SOP acknowledgesprivate beach front property, doesn’t it? It also seems like deputies are free to interpret the law as they wish.

So, on one hand we have a Sheriff’s SOP telling beach front property owners how to ensure their rights, and on the other hand he is encouraging people to ignore those rights. He tells beach front property owners to mark their property and the Board of County Commissioners tells people to take the markers down. Does it get any sillier than this?

Yes, it does.

Now we have a group of folks who also believe private beach front property really doesn’t exist, even though the WCSO acknowledges it does. “Stand Your Sand” is planning to have a walk on the beach on June 4th and have people join hands as they walk 10 miles from the east or 10 miles from the west to establish “customary use for all”. Their notice goes on to say, “let no barriers or signs impede us on our beaches on this day or ever. This to claim the Beaches of South Walton from the dune line to the water line for customary use for all to fairly and equitably use and enjoy for eternity.”

The folks who are organizing these walks go on to state, “During Stand Your Sand traverse and ignore any and all barriers, signs, ropes and chains that are in violation to the Walton County Beach Activities Ordinance….Reserve the right to stop on any portion of the dry sand for a rest to stay properly hydrated to ensure good health and enjoy the view. Please do not litter. Please behave responsibly and leave only your footprints. Please be respectful of beachfront homeowners and avoid confrontations. Be respectful of the Walton County Beach Activities ordinance. Do use and enjoy the beaches as people have for centuries. The walk on the beach is in no way an official event. It is only an idea. All people have the free will to act on an idea or not. We all have the right to walk on the beach; no permit needed.”

Sounds like they are inciting civil disobedience, doesn’t it? Oh, no, not in their minds. They say it’s only an idea and we all have free will. (Hee, hee!)

If they thought what they are proposing was entirely legal, whywould they need disclaimers?

They claim they have the right to walk on the beach. But there is no right to trespass on private property, except in the minds of law breakers.

Then there are some elderly people like myself, who are longtime beach front property owners. Many of us are in fear these hand-holding protestors might get carried away as they squat on our private property. Intimidation is clearly illegal. Florida Statute 825.102, Abuse of an Elderly Person or Disabled Adult states, “(1) Abuse of an elderly person or adult means: (a) intentional infliction of physical or psychological injury upon an elderly person or disabled adult; (b) An intentional act that could reasonably be expected to result in physical or psychological injury to an elderly person or disabled adult; (c) Active encouragement of any person to commit an act that results or could reasonably be expected to result in physical or psychological injury…A person who knowingly or willfully abuses an elderly person or disabled adult without causing great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the elderly person or disabled adult commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, 775.083, or 775.084.”

So here’s what we have. A Sheriff who contradicts himself. A Board of County Commissioners that is clueless. A band of brigands who believe it’s up to them to decide what is legal and what is not. And dozens of elderly beach front property owners, many of whom have been in Walton County for 40+ years, who are fearful of what might happen if the beach walkers get out of control.

Is our Sheriff planning to provide protection for the beachfront owners during this Kumbaya event, and intervene in any effort by the beach walkers to encroach upon or harass my fellow owners, or destroy our private property?

Have you ever wondered why so many protestors seem to “know their rights”, but they conveniently forget their responsibilities as law-abiding citizens?

Joyia Spann
Seagrove Beach, FL

"A band of brigands who believe it’s up to them to decide what is legal and what is not."

I just had to look it up. Oh brother.

"A band of brigands who believe it’s up to them to decide what is legal and what is not."

I just had to look it up. Oh brother.View attachment 60437

I had to look it up too!