Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]

We have a neighborhood beach access in front of our place. The beach vendors hog up nearly all of the shoreline with empty chairs by 7-7:15am - and most remain empty for the day. This leaves a large number of people with no where to set up. Where do they go? Well, they move down the beach and set up on someone elses private beach.

The problem as I see it are three fold: #1 Beach vendors - they need to be heavily regulated and IMHO shut down because of their beach abusing behavior #2 Trash - If beachgoers really followed the "leave no trace" rule there would likely be fewer "no trespassing signs." It sickens me when I have pick up so much of others' trash when taking a stroll on the beach. I would be extremely PO'ed if I had to pick up other people's trash on my own property. #3 Legal - I have heard second hand that some of the no trespassing signs are being posted on advice of attorneys. Don't know if this is true, but if it is, it's hard to blame the home owners from protecting themselves from our litigious society.

Solution: #1 - Beach Vendors cannot set up without the client present and in possession of the chairs/umbrella. No beach storage overnight for the vendor set-ups. #2 - The TDC should pay for a clean-up crew to walk the beaches and pick up trash. Beach patrols need to start handing out reasonable fines ($25 - $50) for littering, glass on the beach, etc. #3 If there truly is liability to the home owners then ways to remove this liability should be explored.

Just my $.02

The WCSO's new SOP for beach requires those signs.

Ash, let's say I like to visit where you live. I enjoy watching birds or some other wildlife.

There is a local park about a half mile from your home

But I like to set up "camp" the front yard of your home, which you own and have a deed to.

How will you address the issue of me (tourist to your area), now hanging out in your front (or back) yard?

Dumb

Say I own an apartment on Central Park with a deeded yard. Except it doesn't look like a yard. There's just a park there with imaginary lines where my yard is. People have been using the park for decades.

So today I take my small square of yard that is part of Central Park and I rope it off and put up no trespassing signs.

Dumb

People have a right to the beach!

View attachment 59528 View attachment 59527 Here is what it looks like this morning at the Hwy 83 Blue Mountain Beach access. The private beach signs and chairs/umbrellas will prevent visitors from setting up on the west side of the 83 beach access.

The owner of the property just east of the access is also considering posting his beachfront private property as well.

If that happens there will be a relatively small area to the left and right of the lifeguard tower available for visitors. Then the domino effect will encourage additional private beach claims and signage. This could happen at a very rapid pace.

I don't believe the TDC or Walton County are seeing the full impact of this recent trend.

We are at the crossroads. People's livelihoods and ability to enjoy an unfettered beach are at stake.

@jkmason thanks for the photos. So, are the beach vendors working with the home owners on these properties to rent out chairs on their private beach? Who is allowed to rent them?

I did speak to the beach vendor. He has been following the posts on this forum. Per the owners request, he was previously asking people to leave the posted private beach area, but has stopped that practice. This was due, in part, to push back from posts on this forum and personal contact with people from the community.

Regarding who can rent the chairs: Although I didn't ask the vendor specifically, it appears that they are just for the use of the guests.

Seaside is no longer allowing the public on "their" beaches.

Local with out of town guests had the following experience yesterday:

I am the friend Mike is referring to in this post. This happened to me yesterday while trying to take my sister and family who are here from out of town to the beach. We did use the public beach access in between Watercolor and Seaside. We normally go to Grayton but due to the poor water testing results we decided to play it safe and go to a different beach. The only clear spot we found to set up our chairs was just inside the seaside west boundary. We were then approached by what I assume was a homeowner and he told us we could not sit there and we had to move to the watercolor sign or security would come and force us to move. Not wanting to make anymore of a scene we complied. We had 5 little children with us and it was embarrassing. My husband later called WCSO and the deputy told him we did not have to move, there was nothing they could do to make us move if we wanted to stay on the "seaside" side of the blue flags. I was shocked and embarrassed. And I will tell you it did not leave a good impression of our area with my sister and her family.

Seaside has always been private. It was low key until a few years ago when they started enforcement. Each street Pavilion is owned by that streets' HOA. They don't want non owners and non rental guests on them.

At the access between Seaside and WaterColor there is not much public beach space.

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Well it certainly does appear that the proverbial sh#t is really hitting the fan hard the this year.

I wondered when the 4 homes next to the BMB access would finally push back on being able to use their own property as prescribed by law: "Quiet enjoyment is a right to the undisturbed use and enjoyment of real property by a tenant or landowner." And my prediction regarding Redfish Village several years ago is coming to fruition...more and more guests from that complex crowding their small lot and trespassing on the neighbors to the west - actually taking it over. And jkmason's pictures (thank you) above confirms what I was saying - that Redfish Village takes over their lot (the one that the public has full easement rights to) with chairs and umbrellas before most of us wake up.

I guess the early bird catches the beach.

But never mind the "mean ole greedy" individual beach front owners along Blue Mountain Beach.

Let's talk about these other locations for a while...
Seaside;
Watercolor;
Watersound;
Alys Beach;
Rosemary Beach.

These are HUGE developments with LOTS of PRIVATE beach.

The bulk of the posts I see in this forum seem to attack individual owners - it's easier I guess. But where's the outrage regarding these corporations who control huge amounts of beach front property? I've read posts where people discussed boycotting Maries because they are a SBA member. Why not boycott all of Seaside? Why not boycott the ever popular Bud and Alleys and other restaurants who sit within the Seaside area? Why not boycott Fish Out of Water in Watercolor? Why not boycott Caliza and George’s in Alys Beach? Why not boycott Cowgirl Kitchen and CK Feed & Supply in Rosemary Beach? Why not boycott all the shops and restaurants in the other "private beach" locations?

For the many, that would just inconvenience their lifestyle. So the outrage is then simply muted as they sip their wine and watch the sunset from these restaurants.

Regarding customary use, I think it would be very easy for the gulf-front owners to demonstrate that until recently, there was no issue with the owners and their guests being able to set up their chairs and umbrellas in front of and on top of their own property. So some owners are currently engaged to preserve what they always had in the past (guaranteed by their title and law). And then there are other beachfront owners - trying to prevent this situation by preemptively placing signs.

Early bird used to mean going to a restaurant at 5:00 to get a deal. Not anymore.

A vote for the idea of customary use and public beach is a vote for converting our beautiful area to a Destin and Panama City Beach. I personally had a choice to buy into any of these areas - I chose Blue Mountain Beach for the beauty of the area and its peacefulness.

We need to get rid of the beach vendors in Grayton Beach. If owners of rental properties want to include beach service to their renters, so be it. If the chair & umbrella are not in use, they do not get set up to obstruct beachfront use for other beachgoers.

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Let's talk about these other locations for a while...
Seaside;
Watercolor;
Watersound;
Alys Beach;
Rosemary Beach.

These are HUGE developments with LOTS of PRIVATE beach.

The bulk of the posts I see in this forum seem to attack individual owners - it's easier I guess. But where's the outrage regarding these corporations who control huge amounts of beach front property? I've read posts where people discussed boycotting Maries because they are a SBA member. Why not boycott all of Seaside? Why not boycott the ever popular Bud and Alleys and other restaurants who sit within the Seaside area? Why not boycott Fish Out of Water in Watercolor? Why not boycott Caliza and George’s in Alys Beach? Why not boycott Cowgirl Kitchen and CK Feed & Supply in Rosemary Beach? Why not boycott all the shops and restaurants in the other "private beach" locations?

For the many, that would just inconvenience their lifestyle. So the outrage is then simply muted as they sip their wine and watch the sunset from these restaurants.

Most of the businesses in these developments are individually owned by our friends and neighbors. Please come up with another idea if you want to use the beach in the town where they operate.

The unfortunate part about this issue is that it's being polarized. It's "us versus them" or "haves versus have-nots", locals versus tourists", etc. There's no way that a black and white view on an issue like this will ever reach a fair and reasonable solution for anyone.

So those who are lucky enough to own property, congratulations! And BlueMountainBeachVagrant brought up a very good point that should be discussed as well - the large portions of beach that are "private" on the east end of 30A. I don't agree with his boycott of local businesses as a form of protest, but there are miles of beach that are essentially inaccessible to locals like myself, because there are very few public accesses east of Deer Lake State Park.

It's been touched on in this thread many times but not specifically asked - what EXACTLY is the reasoning for all owners to post and enforce the Private Property signage? I am firmly in the "too poor to own beachfront property (yet)" column, and I've had many similar experiences as jkmason recently where I went for a walk on the beach and ended up mesmerized, upset, or at least distracted by all of the signage instead of enjoying the surf.

Here are the items that I've pulled out of this thread, along with a proposed solution that seems reasonable for all involved:

• Vendors and their inconsiderate and wasteful use of the beach.
  • Require that vendors deliver their chairs and products directly to their customer, not set them up early and be left all day. They do this with bikes, paddle boards, etc already - I don't know of any vendors (or customers for that matter) that allow a $1000 paddle board to be left on the beach for someone to pick up hours later. Fine vendors who set chairs up early, and customers who abandon them on the beach without getting them picked up.
• Inconsiderate use of the beach - littering, noise, pop-up tents, etc. One of the most annoying things to me is when one or multiple pop-up tents are set up on the beach, with music blaring out of it, several coolers, and unimaginable piles of gear. That type of noisy, disruptive crowd bothers me as a beachgoer, and I can't imagine how much it would annoy me if it was right outside my back door.
  • This is as simple as enacting a law defining what "customary use" is for Walton County. I would be happy to argue alongside property owners that bringing half of the contents of your house is not necessary to enjoy the beach. I spend entire days on the beach with my 3 kids, and we can fit everything we need for a full day at the beach on our Bob stroller and walk to the beach with it. And along with the legal definition is ENFORCEMENT. More patrols by cops and code enforcement folks who will actually stop and handle a situation then and there. So what if the people receiving the citation are offended and will not come back? Nobody ever mentions the 5 people that were annoyed or disgusted by their actions and didn't say anything, but resolved not to come back themselves.
• Exclusivity. I believe this is the biggest item for the developments BlueMountainBeachVagrant mentioned. The folks who stay at Rosemary Beach, Watersound, Seaside, etc want to prevent overcrowding and keep out the "riff raff". But at the same time, they still want the County (which is funded by taxes paid by ALL of us, not just their community) to empty their trash bins, maintain their beach flag system, enforce the laws on their beach, and even help keep those of us who are not part of "the club" off of their beaches.
  • I believe that each community should be required to have at least one access that is not locked and is available for public use. Rosemary Beach could use the gate near their green space near the Pearl, which already has public restrooms. WaterSound has the Shingle Lane access or the access at the Beach Club - both of which are accessible by County vehicles already for beach maintenance. The fact is, most of us would rarely go to these accesses, because parking is terrible. But it would be great to be able to go to these places once in a while for a change in scenery, or to have dinner in Rosemary or Alys Beach and walk on the beach afterward. After all, isn't that why we live/work/visit/stay here?

Are there any other issues that I'm not aware of? What are they? If we could come together and figure out the ROOT CAUSE of the problem - what the property owners are genuinely concerned about and how to help limit and/or solve those problems, maybe we could get back to being the beautiful, laid-back beach community that most of us fell in love with.

I keep reading about the beachfront property owners "customary use" ....what about MY "customary use" of being able to come to the beach with only a towel,sheet and cooler and not have to navigate around 30 umbrella/chair setups before I can USE the beach within 50yrds of the walkover I came ONTO the beach at? I have been "customarily" using Walton county beaches alot longer than most of the homes on it. I have NEVER used a beach service and was appalled that when my family came to the area for the first time in many years that they were accosted by a vendor within 5 minutes of walking onto the beach. They need to rein in the vendors and give back some of the customarily used space to those of us that just want to enjoy THE BEACH.

"It's been touched on in this thread many times but not specifically asked - what EXACTLY is the reasoning for all owners to post and enforce the Private Property signage? I am firmly in the "too poor to own beachfront property (yet)" column, and I've had many similar experiences as jkmason recently where I went for a walk on the beach and ended up mesmerized, upset, or at least distracted by all of the signage instead of enjoying the surf."

Answer:

Because Sheriff Mike Adkinson refuses to do his job and enforce trespass on private property UNLESS you jump through his hoops and do this.

If he would have been enforcing laws from day one and not playing politics with everything, we probably wouldn't have this issue.

Same with Wedding Houses, had to have a huge law suit over that...

"It's been touched on in this thread many times but not specifically asked - what EXACTLY is the reasoning for all owners to post and enforce the Private Property signage? I am firmly in the "too poor to own beachfront property (yet)" column, and I've had many similar experiences as jkmason recently where I went for a walk on the beach and ended up mesmerized, upset, or at least distracted by all of the signage instead of enjoying the surf."

Answer:

Because Sheriff Mike Adkinson refuses to do his job and enforce trespass on private property UNLESS you jump through his hoops and do this.

If he would have been enforcing laws from day one and not playing politics with everything, we probably wouldn't have this issue.

Same with Wedding Houses, had to have a huge law suit over that...

John G....with all your law enforcement expertise and background could you please tell us when a local ordinance or law has ever superseded FEDERAL law? The FEDERAL law which states that beaches are public up to the HIGH TIDE mark?

Also recent Florida Supreme Court decisions have upheld the public's right to recreational use of dry-sand areas of the beach.

The constitution of Florida also recognizes that the beach is publicly owned up to the high-tide mark. In addition, Florida law requires the state to ensure "the public's right to reasonable access to beaches," and various court rulings have affirmed that principle.

And John G, since the constitution of Florida also recognizes that the beach is publicly owned up to the high-tide mark could you please explain to us what law it is that the Sheriff has refused to enforce?

Well I'm definitely not an expert and not sure about being experienced, but I simply answered the question as to WHY all the signs are popping up.

Very simply put; we never had this problem before. A few years ago, after the big TDC push at attracting other tourists to the area, we started to see an increase in what I call "disrespectful tourists". These are the one's that let their children urinate and defecate in our dunes, the take glass bottles to the beach (and leave them), they don't clean up after-themselves or their pets and are simply just disrespectful to our area. It is a lower class of clientele.

The aforementioned type of tourist then attracted the attention of the homeowners along the beach. Many then started to call law enforcement about the activities of these folks. This also took place at many of the Resort Beaches.

So the question came up about who actually own's the area where this activity was taking place and who has the authority to enforce a trespass warning on it.

Thus, the issue of Trespassing on the Beach and the Standard Operation Procedure of the Walton County Sheriff's Office, under sheriff Adkinson.

Due to the recent (past couple of years) of increases in calls to WCSO about people (tourists and locals alike) trespassing on peoples property (I'm not talking about the mean high tide line or the wet sand) a SOP was created.

The signs, a survey and GPS coordinates and other things are all part of a requirement set forth by WCSO so that a property owner can call for service and actually get some result. It also depends on the luck of the draw as some deputies will be proactive while others don't do anything. Same with TDC Code Enforcement. I don't agree with it, but its what's in the SOP.

That's why the signs are going up all over.

I'm not going to get into the State vs. Federal nonsense. If you want to go that route, go ask Greg Anchors at the State Attorney's Office for his letter he sent to the sheriff outlining the high tide line and wet sand issue.

I believe that private property owners have the right to control the property they own. If that happens to be a piece of white sand in South Walton County, then so be it.

I also believe that the public has the right to freely traverse East and West and back again, while not disturbing or disrespecting the private property as they travel.

The sky is falling mentality of some people with the beach access is overkill.

Actually John G this entire fiasco can be laid directly at the feet of the BCC (not the Sheriff) who have abdicated their responsibilities not only to ALL the citizens of Walton County (AKA the taxpayers) but also the people who make up much of our local economy (AKA tourists) and have caved to developer greed.

I could actually understand this excuse

Very simply put; we never had this problem before. A few years ago, after the big TDC push at attracting other tourists to the area, we started to see an increase in what I call "disrespectful tourists". These are the one's that let their children urinate and defecate in our dunes, the take glass bottles to the beach (and leave them), they don't clean up after-themselves or their pets and are simply just disrespectful to our area. It is a lower class of clientele.

if this were PCB we were talking about but I do believe the Sheriff and his ZERO tolerance policies have been very effective in this area.

I don't care about SOP set forth by any Sheriff or law enforcement entity and in all likelihood, I would in all probability ignore it if it conflicted with State and Federal law which as an American Citizen I have every legal right to do.

Everyone on this board recognizes your disdain for the Sheriff. While I may not be a fan of his media exploitation I can appreciate the fact he does a damn fine job and even he recognizes he can't enforce any laws that don't exist and has to follow the Constitution of the State of Florida...failing that, he has to follow federal law.

P.S. If my tax dollars maintain those beaches, legally I have the inherent right to plant my a$$ anywhere my tax dollars work!

I appreciate the measured and respectful tone of wasteinaway's post. No one who loves freedom or personal property rights is comfortable with giving the public carte blanche to do as they please on someone else's property. On the other hand, as Misty and others have pointed out, tax dollars have played a major role in the upkeep and enhancement of the beaches and taxpayers have a right to use what their taxes pay for. Many of the homes and resorts along the beach were allowed to build too close to the water and this closeness is another factor because no one would want the public partying right outside your bedroom or living space. And while some want to downplay the effect of private beaches on our economy, the threat is real and growing. This issue should have been addressed years ago and will continue to worsen until it is resolved. Wasteinaway has some good ideas for compromise. Will everyone be happy with every aspect of such compromises? Absolutely not. But we need to find solutions that the majority on both sides can live with that do not destroy our community or its economy and we need to do it now in a civil manner. Remember, nastiness, disputes, divisions and hateful comments are just as harmful to the community and will harm our economy just as much as any public/private beach will.

Innocent Question: I thought the public beaches were paid for by everyone's taxes. And, the private beaches were paid for by owners taxes. Like public schools, you pay and if you go private, you pay that too. ?

Innocent Question: I thought the public beaches were paid for by everyone's taxes. And, the private beaches were paid for by owners taxes. Like public schools, you pay and if you go private, you pay that too. ?

If the BCC continues to kick this can down the road and abdicate their responsibility to the taxpayers of Walton County Danny, let me suggest that you will see a whole lot of civil unrest and we will see the North rise again.

What I'm not sure of is how civil it will be.

Innocent Question: I thought the public beaches were paid for by everyone's taxes. And, the private beaches were paid for by owners taxes. Like public schools, you pay and if you go private, you pay that too. ?

Are you suggesting that the private landowners in question are paying to maintain what they consider is their private beach? I'd dearly love to see some receipts for that....because the Federal government has ascertained that beaches are public up to the HIGH TIDE mark.