Policy on Personal Beach Chairs vs Vendor

The dispute at Vizcaya can be resolved in one day if someone would just call the man out on his CURRENT TOPOGRAPHICAL SURVEY and actually SEE where the MHWL actually is THIS year not where it was when he bought it 8 years ago. As for people going out there for years..well that IS customary use whether he or anybody else likes it or not. But he isnt doing himself any favors by making racist comments to the media about beachgoers.

Oyster Lake was a paradise for native Americans. Ancient oyster mounds show an abundance of easy protein. Fish and other wildlife were there for the taking. And we know of of the incredible beauty and spirituality of our coast. Lives were well lived long before fences and ditches.

Anyone not able to connect with this glorious past and pay respect to the land is a lost soul. Expecting to own the beach and exclude others is a path to ruin.

As for people going out there for years..well that IS customary use whether he or anybody else likes it or not.

People need to educate themselves about the historical criteria and limits of common-law custom. Failure to meet any of the criteria invalidates the custom claim. Time is but one of the criteria. Historically custom has to be since time immemorial, “so long, that the memory of man runneth not to the contrary.” There are six others plus custom applies to a property not a county or state. Without limits people would claim any and everything as a custom. Common-law custom can apply to more than property. If custom just had a time limit; could a custom accepted by the majority over many years prohibited women to drive or inherit property? An exaggerated example today but why not? Custom is a very narrow legal doctrine and should be very limited or all our personal rights could be in jeopardy. That is also why American property rights are supreme and protected by the Constitution. Government may be able to tell owners how to use their property but not who can use it (except in very narrow cases); big difference. There is no right of custom in the Constitution. Custom is a slippery slope if not narrowly defined and limited.

Oyster Lake was a paradise for native Americans. Ancient oyster mounds show an abundance of easy protein. Fish and other wildlife were there for the taking. And we know of of the incredible beauty and spirituality of our coast. Lives were well lived long before fences and ditches.

So should the public be able to use coastal lake owners private property, docks, pools to fish, sunbath, swim, and have fun?
Should property owners have to remove there fixtures and return the land to "... the incredible beauty and spirituality of our coast."?

If I had to live 100 or 1,000 years ago or today with plumbing, electricity, air conditioning, and the rule of law and property rights Americans have today - I'll pick today.

File:Beach Ownership.jpg - Beachapedia and Beachapedia:About - Beachapedia

Found this info on Beachapedia, which is a project of the Surfrider Foundation according to the site. Take a look.

Looks a good conversation taking place here. Most of you already know how I feel about this topic. Again nobody who is polarized regarding this topic (private/public/custom) will have their minds changed by anything said by anyone, anytime or anywhere. I just hope we can remain civil when we run into each other at the Blue Mountain Creamery.

Lucas, your succinct factual presentation is like looking at artwork. Some don't understand it. But for those who do, it is a work of beauty. Are you a lawyer? Never mind, don't answer that.

Quick question for anyone...regarding the Beach_Ownership map above, why in the world does Pennsylvania have a color?

Lucas, your succinct factual presentation is like looking at artwork. Some don't understand it. But for those who do, it is a work of beauty. Are you a lawyer? Never mind, don't answer that.

Already asked and answered on page 12. Nope not a lawyer. Just an informed supporter of the Constitution and property rights.

You are likely right. It's hard to unfreeze positions if you don't know the facts. The Walton BCC should be leading the way to get the facts out and educate the public about property rights starting with themselves instead of polarizing the the issues like in the recent primaries. Education, not hyperbole, uninformed opinion and name calling will help.

So should the public be able to use coastal lake owners private property, docks, pools to fish, sunbath, swim, and have fun?
Should property owners have to remove there fixtures and return the land to "... the incredible beauty and spirituality of our coast."?

If I had to live 100 or 1,000 years ago or today with plumbing, electricity, air conditioning, and the rule of law and property rights Americans have today - I'll pick today.

You drove right past the point at full speed.

Oyster Lake was a paradise for native Americans. Ancient oyster mounds show an abundance of easy protein. Fish and other wildlife were there for the taking. And we know of the incredible beauty and spirituality of our coast. Lives were well lived long before fences and ditches.

Anyone not able to connect with this glorious past and pay respect to the land is a lost soul. Expecting to own the beach and exclude others is a path to ruin.

You drove right past the point at full speed.

I get it. If everyone would be one with nature like it was in the past, life would be simpler, and we would not have private property and strife and everyone would be happy. Wonderful sentiment but not realistic in today’s world or in history. There was as much or more strife for native peoples as there are now. Let’s deal with today; I’m at peace with that. I’m glad you weren’t advocating taking rights property owners have earned and are recognized today because the only way is to turn back time. You can’t unscramble the omelet. Not sure I’d want to go back, not learn more about the world, and not experience the wonders of today that was not available in the past. Time stands still for no one. Besides I’d rather get my oysters and protein from the restaurant.

Looks a good conversation taking place here. Most of you already know how I feel about this topic. Again nobody who is polarized regarding this topic (private/public/custom) will have their minds changed by anything said by anyone, anytime or anywhere. I just hope we can remain civil when we run into each other at the Blue Mountain Creamery.

Lucas, your succinct factual presentation is like looking at artwork. Some don't understand it. But for those who do, it is a work of beauty. Are you a lawyer? Never mind, don't answer that.

Quick question for anyone...regarding the Beach_Ownership map above, why in the world does Pennsylvania have a color?

The banana pudding ice cream is so dang good.

While it may seem as though some people's versions of "facts", sound good, I asked the person who told me that the MHWL was not the simple answer in most places to explain SC laws. Instead, I got the link: Code of Laws - Title 48 - Chapter 39 - Coastal Tidelands And Wetlands

There is no clear and irrefutable law on this. In fact, SC has gone all the way to the USS, and lost, on this very issue after they changed the laws regarding building on the beach. And yes, SC does allow private beach, in limited areas, primarily on outer islands.

But what really matters is this. I can walk the entire length of Isle of Palms and only see signs marking private property on wooden beach walks. So you have to ask yourself, why can the people of Isle of Palms share their beach, and their front yards, while the people of SoWal demand that theirs be kept private?

I get it. If everyone would be one with nature like it was in the past, life would be simpler, and we would not have private property and strife and everyone would be happy. Wonderful sentiment but not realistic in today’s world or in history. There was as much or more strife for native peoples as there are now. Let’s deal with today; I’m at peace with that. I’m glad you weren’t advocating taking rights property owners have earned and are recognized today because the only way is to turn back time. You can’t unscramble the omelet. Not sure I’d want to go back, not learn more about the world, and not experience the wonders of today that was not available in the past. Time stands still for no one. Besides I’d rather get my oysters and protein from the restaurant.

No you don't get it and you likely never will.

No you don't get it and you likely never will.

Enlighten us Truman Burbank. You seem to be the only one that knows what your point is.

@BlueMtnBeachVagrant, this is probably not what you were expecting , but here is a partial answer to your question about Pennsylvania beaches!

Here Are 7 Gorgeous Beaches In Pennsylvania That You Must Visit This Summer

But what really matters is this. I can walk the entire length of Isle of Palms and only see signs marking private property on wooden beach walks. So you have to ask yourself, why can the people of Isle of Palms share their beach, and their front yards, while the people of SoWal demand that theirs be kept private?

Is it possibly because they have been renourished? And I assume (sincerely hope) you mean the sandy beach when you say share "their front yards".

Beach Restoration - Isle of Palms

Is it possibly because they have been renourished? And I assume (sincerely hope) you mean the sandy beach when you say share "their front yards".

Beach Restoration - Isle of Palms

SC has an additional standard of erosion zones.

Isle of Palms allows parking in front yards.

Isle of Palms allows parking in front yards.

Is parking in owners front yard allowed for the state of SC or IoP only? You can park on the public right of way but not on private property. Please backup your facts. Beach Access & Parking - Isle of Palms

Road-right-of-ways are areas that the owners on IoP voted to allow. Guess people aren't as greedy here as there.

Road-right-of-ways are areas that the owners on IoP voted to allow. Guess people aren't as greedy here as there.

M1, the public right-of way (RoW) is public property, not private property. You can park on the 30A right-of-way, in front of private beachfront property today, next to a bike path, as long as you don't value your or your family's safety of getting run over, and voters/owners didn't even have to vote to park on the 30A RoW.
How gracious (not greedy) is that of Walton beachfront owners? Seriously, get over the greedy, selfish, elite, we vs them name calling and just respect individual property rights owners have had and have today. Enjoy the 6+ miles of Walton public beaches and 5,000 acres of public parks. Makes you look misinformed and envious.

I understand RoW. What you describe is not what exists on IoP. The parking on IoP STARTS 4 ' from the road. While owner's may have ownership rights, they aren't running around chasing people away. Like they do in SoWal. There is a red line painted along Palm Blvd. 4' from the road. It is packed with cars. Every few houses, a path runs from the road to the beach.

It's simple, there are greedy people who run screaming from their homes when anyone comes near their yards or beach front in SoWal. I've experienced it personally. It didn't used to be that way. But as people build bigger houses along the beach to impress, God knows who, the sharing has gone away.

Envious of greedy people who won't share the beach? Yeah, not so much. You seem to want to represent them Lucas. So, I'm guessing you must be one of them. I'll be back living there in a couple of years. I'll be the guy pushing to change bad laws.

Is it possibly because they have been renourished? And I assume (sincerely hope) you mean the sandy beach when you say share "their front yards".

Beach Restoration - Isle of Palms

Looks like beach vendors will be pushed aw

Beach Vendors will be a huge revenue driver for HOA / COA's that "own" their beach. They pay these Associations big $$$ to vend on their beaches.

Why don't we have business licenses? Do we not want to know who is collecting revenue off of the beaches? After all, we all own them right? (Customary Use). If I have a right to all the beach (as per customary use) then I want to know who profits from it and I'd like to see the details... Follow the $$$.

You are watching the systematic disassembly of the area. If a Better South Walton had a way to fight this, I'd jump on their train, toot their horn and give them $.

Since a significant part of this discussion surrounds "Enforcement", or the apparent, lack there of, I thought I'd let you know that the 2015/2016 TDC Code Enforcement stats are in.

I'm hoping someone will post the entire report.

With numbers such as approximately 1200 contacts with people for glass on beach violations and only two (2) citations issued and approximately 2100 contacts for dog on beach violations and only nine (9) citations issued, it is very easy to see that we have and have had a serious issue with enforcement...

Not only does non-enforcement send the wrong message to everyone (tourists included), it's a missed opportunity at generating some additional revenue that could go right back to the beach access upkeep or another project.

Why such poor stats? Did BCC Members or someone else, instruct the Code Officers NOT to issue fines? Just verbal or written warnings...

We need clear, firm, fair and consistent Enforcement.

Yep, see the truth above and follow the $$$! Raking in cash and storing their vending on public beaches and no licensing fees? With the amount of head scratching Sh!t that goes on here How do I retain my hair? Nonsense after nonsense, could it ever get to reasonable and legal someday like well run normal communities?

...could it ever get to reasonable and legal someday like well run normal communities?

Nope.

I had trouble finding a spot on the beach yesterday. Maybe the resorts want us staying at there rentals?