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Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach Lover
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When you see a PCB or Destin bumper sticker, what thought immediately comes to mind? Probably same for all of us with any time spent here - nice, but it ain’t 30A! Do you remember why you started renting/visiting here? What was it? Remember when you bought your first 30A property? Why here?
Because it was DIFFERENT, right? Remember the words you used to describe it to family and friends as you invited them here? “Private” “Quiet” “Intimate” “Less crowded”. That wasn’t by accident. The entire genetic code of Sowal beaches is because of the private ownership and neighborhood beach personalities.
You could rent “private beach”. You could buy “private beach”. There wasn’t a free for all frat party atmosphere because of unlimited public beach access on the sands. That behavior was regulated by the privately owned property where such behavior was immediately squelched. And yet, by custom, no one was ever “Kicked off” of private beaches because owners don’t do that unless bad actors abuse the privilege.
Walton County has always had more than 50% PUBLIC beach. Still does. That hasn’t changed. There are now deliberately misleading fear tactics out there with scary words like “Quiet Title” and “Privatization”, neither of which have affected one single square inch of public beach, not one. Yet, the mob mentality, orchestrated by local carnival barkers eager for fame and notoriety, and dollars, have mislead the citizens and deliberately tried to divide the community in a shell game of Customary Use.
The fact is that the county outran the capabilities of local Commissioners to plan for growth 20 years ago, and we haven’t improved that talent to deal with it even yet. So the County, in failing to plan beach availability, tried to illegally claim private property as public, without following the laws requiring judicial oversight. The local Good Ol’ Boys overreached their authority and got caught by the adults in Tallahassee. So they then decides to sue 4,800 of Sowal citizens to take their property. That’s right, your tax money is being spent, and a lot of it, to SUE almost 5,000 of your neighbors, and steal what they agreed to purchase at a premium, and have a deed to prove it.
Don’t blame them please, they didn’t want or ask for this fight. They live here and care for these beaches just like you and me. Go meet them, they are truly the eclectic fabric of 30A. The signs they had to put up are just in defense of this new orchestrated public attack against them.
The bottom line is this: The minute you release the public to occupy all of Sowal beaches, you IMMEDIATELY get nasty Destin and PCB problems. How will you feel about that 30A sticker then? Nostalgic? Me too.

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Replies

2,312
Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach LoverAuthor
#1503
I leave y’all with this precious thread and it falls apart in the hands of mischief.
Parenting in the new millennium, GEEZ!

Bob, Dave, you’re correct. That bill aimed to turn Pensacola public beach into private beach, and indeed it failed locally, big win for the community. They deserve to celebrate and be proud, it was destined to be, and remains, public. Cheers to the passion of the lady as the face of it all!

But that is opposite of the CU charade here in Walton. Walton’s beaches have “always” had private ownership mixed in. Unlike Pensacola’s that were “always” public. BIG BIG difference! Walton’s have been private Longer actually than Pensacola’s have been public. The Walton private/public beach ratio has remained virtually unchanged here for nearly 100 years. So their win says nothing at all about this CU fantasy thing here. Nowhere in Walton has Public beach been turned private. Period.

FBFA claims but we’ve always had CU. That’s simply not true. We never have. BCC tried to illegally claim a 2016 ordinance to provide it, but that was illegal and adults in Tallahassee immediately scolded them, correcting the legal error.

So the debate rolls on, with Pensacola actually reinforcing the legacy idea of legal president. Same goes for private beaches here setting a century of president. Unfortunately for FBFA, the overwhelming evidence of constantly disputed and daily interrupted public use of private beach is an overwhelming reality that is squelching the CU movement.

But regardless of who wins, as thoroughly described 1501 posts ago:
Customary Use will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1504
But what you clearly don’t have a clue about is it we are friends of Diane’s and she is an ally. Goodbye
Regarding Dianne being an “ally”, I guess nobody is perfect. BTW, thats Dianne, with 2 n’s. True friends know how to spell each other’s names.
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1505
But that is opposite of the CU charade here in Walton. Walton’s beaches have “always” had private ownership mixed in. Unlike Pensacola’s that were “always” public. BIG BIG difference!
Yet there are still attempts by the “carnival barkers” to misstate and skew facts when they feel their audience might be willing to bite.

Why did Escambia County want to sell off / lease publicly owned beach and make it private? To stimulate the local economy of course.

Today, Walton County wants to confiscate private beach property. Why? For the exact same reason. Except we will be in the 30A destructive mode of this development cycle / curve as the tourist economy is already running on all 8 cylinders. But for developers, the real estate industry and other businesses, that’s not enough. Just add more cylinders, it’ll all fit under that hood.
Dave Rauschkolb avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1506
Regarding Dianne being an “ally”, I guess nobody is perfect. BTW, thats Dianne, with 2 n’s. True friends know how to spell each other’s names.

Anyone that knows me knows that I dictate rather than type with my thumbs on my phone. My friend Tony V. often gets spelled Toni with an i. Your desperation and string pulling is palpable. So sorry to have starved you of material. Thank you for drawing even more attention to the Pensacola issue which helps us. Well, maybe not here because no one’s really watching this thread except for a handful of you folks and a handful of us folks
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1507
Thou protests too much re spelling.

Ok....Thou doth protest too much.

So why in the hell do you spend so much time here on SoWal countering all the private property rights advocates if there’s nobody worthwhile reading? Don’t you have some restaurants and hundreds of people depending on you?

Edited

Dave Rauschkolb avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1508
Thou protests too much.

If you’re going to say a “Thou” you got a throw in a “doth”
Bob Wells avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1509
Yet there are still attempts by the “carnival barkers” to misstate and skew facts when they feel their audience might be willing to bite.

Why did Escambia County want to sell off / lease publicly owned beach and make it private? To stimulate the local economy of course.

Today, Walton County wants to confiscate private beach property. Why? For the exact same reason. Except we will be in the 30A destructive mode of this development cycle / curve as the tourist economy is already running on all 8 cylinders. But for developers, the real estate industry and other businesses, that’s not enough. Just add more cylinders, it’ll all fit under that hood.

Well there you go again. Representative Gaetz said it was to stop double taxing people who leased on the beach. 80% of the people voting in the referendum beat that idea. Of course Representative Gaetz was able to get it passed in the House but unable to get heard in the Senate when Senator Nelson dropped his support.
Rep. Matt Gaetz said fee-simple bill is dead at Pensacola town hall

And you commented that Escambia wanted the change to stimulate the economy. I would love to see that written somewhere than in your own words.

According to the article it was the lease holders who lobbied for this because they wanted to change the way they were taxed. Not sure if they have been taxed from the day of the lease but they have been leasing properties since 1950.
Sen. Nelson withdraws support for federal bill to allow private ownership of local beaches
Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach LoverAuthor
#1510
Anyone that knows me knows that I dictate rather than type with my thumbs on my phone. My friend Tony V. often gets spelled Toni with an i. Your desperation and string pulling is palpable. So sorry to have starved you of material. Thank you for drawing even more attention to the Pensacola issue which helps us. Well, maybe not here because no one’s really watching this thread except for a handful of you folks and a handful of us folks
Well dang it Dave, I thought we had a vast universe of fans out there. Thanks for clearing that up. Now that we know it’s just a couple of us girls in here, I need advice. Seriously, actually... knowing that you’ve had/have a couple/few Tesla’s, I’m pretty close to joining the club. Can’t decide on the Autopilot option, reading a ton of differing reviews. Thoughts?

Edited

Auburn Fan avatar
Beach Lover
#1511
Anyone that knows me knows that I dictate ... So sorry to have starved you of material....
"Starved for material"?
Says the "dictator" himself.
Someone call the sherrrifff.
Smile, SoWal.
kayti elliott avatar
Beach Lover
#1512
Don't you love the fact that the most vocal "crusaders for the people" usually are wealthy individuals. And some of them by way of bad old Capitalism.
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1513
And you commented that Escambia wanted the change to stimulate the economy. I would love to see that written somewhere than in your own words.
From PNJ article dated June 28, 2017:

"....If approved, the legislation would allow local beach leaseholders to exchange their 99-year leases for property deeds. The move would also put control of development on area beaches in the hands of local county governments.

Dr. Thomas Campanella, chairman of the Santa Rosa Island Authority, has said the bill would benefit developers and ultimately lead to high-rise condos fronting most of Pensacola Beach."

Sounds like economic stimulis to me. Thanks, BTW, for the link.
Bob Wells avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1514
From PNJ article dated June 28, 2017:

"....If approved, the legislation would allow local beach leaseholders to exchange their 99-year leases for property deeds. The move would also put control of development on area beaches in the hands of local county governments.

Dr. Thomas Campanella, chairman of the Santa Rosa Island Authority, has said the bill would benefit developers and ultimately lead to high-rise condos fronting most of Pensacola Beach."

Sounds like economic stimulis to me. Thanks, BTW, for the link.
Seems all members of the Santa Rosa Island Authority are appointed by each County Commissioner and a 6th one is elected by residents of the island. That said I wonder if they members are all residents of the island or appointed from the district which they reside? This article also expressed concerns about no trespassing signs if the rules were changed.
Everyone agrees Pensacola Beach's lease system is broken. Now how do we fix it?
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1515
Seems all members of the Santa Rosa Island Authority are appointed by each County Commissioner and a 6th one is elected by residents of the island. That said I wonder if they members are all residents of the island or appointed from the district which they reside? This article also expressed concerns about no trespassing signs if the rules were changed.
Everyone agrees Pensacola Beach's lease system is broken. Now how do we fix it?
Just checking back in to see if my response satisfied your doubt that Escambia County is looking for ways to boost their economy, IOW, more tax revenue. I hope Dr. Thomas Campanella‘s words are credible enough.

BTW, I can’t pull up PNJ as it requires a subscription. Maybe you can post the relevant sections.

Regarding leases and selling property over there, couldn’t they just keep the beach part public? Of course they still need to provide access to this beach. But it appears that Dianne feels any development will take public property from the public. Hard to argue against that.

BUT, again, the whole reason for injecting Pensacola Beach into this thread was Daniel Uhlfelder and Dave Rauschkolb’s inference that somehow DianNe was fighting (and prevailed) the same kind of public battle as they are. Nothing could be further from the truth. But that doesn’t surprise me and others.

TRUTH
Bob Wells avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1516
Just checking back in to see if my response satisfied your doubt that Escambia County is looking for ways to boost their economy, IOW, more tax revenue. I hope Dr. Thomas Campanella‘s words are credible enough.

BTW, I can’t pull up PNJ as it requires a subscription. Maybe you can post the relevant sections.

Regarding leases and selling property over there, couldn’t they just keep the beach part public? Of course they still need to provide access to this beach. But it appears that Dianne feels any development will take public property from the public. Hard to argue against that.

BUT, again, the whole reason for injecting Pensacola Beach into this thread was Daniel Uhlfelder and Dave Rauschkolb’s inference that somehow DianNe was fighting (and prevailed) the same kind of public battle as they are. Nothing could be further from the truth. But that doesn’t surprise me and others.

TRUTH
Actually, not really. Thanks. As for needing a subscription I not sure how I was able to access it.
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1517
Dr. Thomas Campanella, chairman of the Santa Rosa Island Authority, has said the bill would benefit developers and ultimately lead to high-rise condos fronting most of Pensacola Beach.

Just checking back in to see if my response satisfied your doubt that Escambia County is looking for ways to boost their economy, IOW, more tax revenue. I hope Dr. Thomas Campanella‘s words are credible enough.

Actually, not really. Thanks.

What's it going to take to convince you that those in county governments have 2 guiding lights....increase tax revenue and get reelected?

BTW, CU fits the bill in both cases here in Walton County as it would increase tourism even more (more tax revenue) and the majority of their constituents who support CU will vote for them (supposedly) at the next election.

Again, for clarity, Escambia County was attempting to take property that ALREADY belonged to the public and sell it to private entities. IMO, that would fail item 2, "get reelected" but it definitively would bring in more revenue any way you look at it.

Edited

Bob Wells avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1518
What's it going to take to convince you that those in county governments have 2 guiding lights....increase tax revenue and get reelected?

BTW, CU fits the bill in both cases here in Walton County as it would increase tourism even more (more tax revenue) and the majority of their constituents who support CU will vote for them (supposedly) at the next election.

Again, for clarity, Escambia County was attempting to take property that ALREADY belonged to the public and sell it to private entities. IMO, that would fail item 2, "get reelected" but it definitively would bring in more revenue any way you look at it.
The Santa Rosa Island Authority were already discussing increasing the lease fees and at least on of the board members said first lets look at if we needed to do that. Secondly, I have yet been able to find any place where County Commissioners were involved in the selling off of the land except for one. Thirdly, it is moot, they had a Referendum on the issue and 80% or so voted to leave things as they were. Government listened! I searched and could not find one place where Representative Gaetz was asked to step in. Maybe I did not go far enough back or maybe it didn't make the news, or maybe it was done a little like the county specific law that required Walton to take its citizens to court to keep customary use. Of course these are just my opinions, and like belly buttons and assholes we all got them.
Beach Fanatic
#1519
Kathryn, I hear you. I can assure you that I am not wealthy by any stretch of any imagination. Wealthy individuals may or may not abuse power. I think we owe everyone a chance to have a voice and then we can decide if they speak for The People or just for themselves. Before we decide we really need to know a lot about that person meaning that words and actions are both important. The very first thing that comes to my mind is who hides their name and who doesn't. Of course that is not enough information so in this forum we have a lot of words being typed. Assuming you have read everyone's post like I have we should be able to form a pretty accurate opinion. Tell us who you believe are misleading us with their words and actions.

Every time I hear someone defending our precious capitalism as if it were a gift from God it makes me wonder where they have been lately. Have you ever wondered why small businesses are all but gone? Have you ever wondered why we have fewer and fewer choices for utilities, goods and services? Have you ever wondered why a business can be too big to fail therefore our tax dollars bail them out? Have you ever wondered about all the corporate welfare that is being given to big business with our tax dollars and then they outsource labor. Did you know that the 3rd most wealthiest place on earth are those little off shore islands that offer tax havens? Have you ever wondered why our utilities cost so much? Have you ever wondered why CEO's pay themselves millions upon millions of dollars? Have you ever wondered why wealth has accumulated over half of the worlds resources? Okay I could on and on but you get my point I hope. You do not have to be a socialist to see the problems with capitalism. We better fix capitalism or socialism will come. I would like to fix capitalism but it won't happen if we are not critical of the corruption.

Capitalism creates wealth for a few is our present day reality. The middle class has always been America's economic backbone. Politicians talk a lot about the middle class but it keeps shrinking. If we want to fix capitalism it will take leadership of our elected representatives. How do we distinguish who those elected representatives represent. This is one of the most important decisions we The People will decide in our electoral process. If we do not get it right then the corruption of capitalism will continue to hoard resources until you and I both will wake up to a world where there is truly two classes of people.

Don't you love the fact that the most vocal "crusaders for the people" usually are wealthy individuals. And some of them by way of bad old Capitalism.
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1520
This will be my last post on this subject.
Cheater.
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1521
The Santa Rosa Island Authority were already discussing increasing the lease fees and at least on of the board members said first lets look at if we needed to do that. Secondly, I have yet been able to find any place where County Commissioners were involved in the selling off of the land except for one. Thirdly, it is moot, they had a Referendum on the issue and 80% or so voted to leave things as they were. Government listened! I searched and could not find one place where Representative Gaetz was asked to step in. Maybe I did not go far enough back or maybe it didn't make the news, or maybe it was done a little like the county specific law that required Walton to take its citizens to court to keep customary use. Of course these are just my opinions, and like belly buttons and assholes we all got them.
I fully understand why you won’t admit to the obvious. Again, the reason I brought up Santa Rosa Island: that Dave and Daniel tried to tag on to the victory achieved in keeping EXISTING PUBLICLY OWNED BEACH public in Pensacola. And this is clearly contrasted here in Walton County where CU advocates are trying to convert EXISTING PRIVATE BEACH to public. That’s the “TRUTH”.

If I’m not seeing this right, please enlighten me. Otherwise it’s just another mistruth (implying a similarity) that Florida Beaches for All continues to perpetuate, that Dianne’s victory somehow benefits the CU assault.

BTW, I’m all for more public beach, legally obtained, of course.
Bob Wells avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1522
I fully understand why you won’t admit to the obvious. Again, the reason I brought up Santa Rosa Island: that Dave and Daniel tried to tag on to the victory achieved in keeping EXISTING PUBLICLY OWNED BEACH public in Pensacola. And this is clearly contrasted here in Walton County where CU advocates are trying to convert EXISTING PRIVATE BEACH to public. That’s the “TRUTH”.

If I’m not seeing this right, please enlighten me. Otherwise it’s just another mistruth (implying a similarity) that Florida Beaches for All continues to perpetuate, that Dianne’s victory somehow benefits the CU assault.

BTW, I’m all for more public beach, legally obtained, of course.
My opinion is this. Prior to the State stepping in we had CU. Whether the beach is private or not did not even enter into it. People for as long as I have lived here coexisted on those very same beaches. Then someone or a group of someone's, with pull was able to change what was occurring and for some reason it only affected 1 county. Whether we can see each others point of view on this is moot, because I have followed this thread long enough to know what comes next. That said, I believe politics had a hand in this as it did in the Santa Rosa Island Authority. I also believe, had Representative Gaetz succeeded the People of Escambia would have been faced with exactly what the People of Walton are having to deal with. Of course these are just my opinions.
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1523
Just reread the Florida Property Owner Bill of Rights that went into effect on July 1st of this year. Not sure why Florida felt the need to codify federally protected rights except for maybe putting counties like Walton on notice especially on items 5, 6 and 7.


FLORIDA PROPERTY OWNER BILL OF RIGHTS​

This Bill of Rights does not represent all of your rights under Florida law regarding your property and should not be viewed as a comprehensive guide to property rights. This document does not create a civil cause of action and neither expands nor limits any rights or remedies provided under any other law. This document does not replace the need to seek legal advice in matters relating to property law. Laws relating to your rights are found in the State Constitution, Florida Statutes, local ordinances, and court decisions. Your rights and protections include:
1. The right to acquire, possess, and protect your property.
2. The right to use and enjoy your property.
3. The right to exclude others from your property.
4. The right to dispose of your property.
5. The right to due process.
6. The right to just compensation for property taken for a public purpose.
7. The right to relief, or payment of compensation, when a new law, rule, regulation, or ordinance of the state or a political entity unfairly affects your property.
Section 4. This act shall take effect July 1, 2019. Approved by the Governor June 26, 2019.
Filed in Office Secretary of State June 26, 2019.

My opinion is this. Prior to the State stepping in we had CU.
Yes, I understand that this your opinion, “your truth”. However, the pre-existence of customary use cannot be true because item #5 (due process) was completely ignored by the county when they originally passed the customary use ordinance. This is fact (truth) and cannot be debated. And a super majority in the house and senate confirmed as much in a bill.

And this judicial requirement existed long, long before the county attempted to ramrod customary use down the throats of private property owners.

It scares me to think that a government body had the audacity to play around with something as sacred as private property rights without due process. It should scare you and everyone else too, but I sincerely and respectfully believe you (and others) are too blinded by your desire for customary use at any cost.

Edited

Bob Wells avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1524
As I said, "I know what comes next." Well this is an easy end to a conversation. When the courts rule then we both will know how this turns out. Guess you can stop the law suits if you and those who are opposed to CU can get the votes next November on the BCC.
Just reread the Florida Property Owner Bill of Rights that went into effect on July 1st of this year. Not sure why Florida felt the need to codify federally protected rights except for maybe putting counties like Walton on notice especially on items 5, 6 and 7.



FLORIDA PROPERTY OWNER BILL OF RIGHTS​

This Bill of Rights does not represent all of your rights under Florida law regarding your property and should not be viewed as a comprehensive guide to property rights. This document does not create a civil cause of action and neither expands nor limits any rights or remedies provided under any other law. This document does not replace the need to seek legal advice in matters relating to property law. Laws relating to your rights are found in the State Constitution, Florida Statutes, local ordinances, and court decisions. Your rights and protections include:
1. The right to acquire, possess, and protect your property.
2. The right to use and enjoy your property.
3. The right to exclude others from your property.
4. The right to dispose of your property.
5. The right to due process.
6. The right to just compensation for property taken for a public purpose.
7. The right to relief, or payment of compensation, when a new law, rule, regulation, or ordinance of the state or a political entity unfairly affects your property.
Section 4. This act shall take effect July 1, 2019. Approved by the Governor June 26, 2019.
Filed in Office Secretary of State June 26, 2019.

Yes, I understand that this your opinion, “your truth”. However, the pre-existence of customary use cannot be true because item #5 (due process) was completely ignored by the county when they originally passed the customary use ordinance. This is fact (truth) and cannot be debated. And a super majority in the house and senate confirmed as much in a bill.

And this judicial requirement existed long, long before the county attempted to ramrod customary use down the throats of private property owners.

It scares me to think that a government body had the audacity to play around with something as sacred as private property rights without due process. It should scare you and everyone else too, but I sincerely and respectfully believe you (and others) are too blinded by your desire for customary use at any cost.

Edited

Auburn Fan avatar
Beach Lover
#1525
Bob Bob has suggested that SoWal adopt a slogan, "Respect the beach or leave." But, there's the rub.
What about someone who does not respect the beach, but refuses to leave? On private property. Who gets to decide when someone must leave? This lawsuit is not about giving you the absolute right to be on any beach. It's about transferring the decision power of exclusion from the homeowner to the county.

New Orleans has the phrase, "Be nice or leave." What if a beachgoer is not breaking any criminal law, but is not nice, and is on your private property? Shouldn't you, the owner, be allowed to insist an unkind person leave your private property?

CU is not a religion, just because one "believes" in it.
Thousands of Walton county homeowners have been sued by the BCC, and now Dave's FBFA, to obliterate their right to simply tell an unkind person to leave their private property. At their own personal expense, over 700 homeowners are standing up to the County & FBFA's attack, defending the loss of property rights that came with their deeds. That's right. Over 700. They can't all be "greedy elitists".

Property rights will prevail in court. In the meantime, the unkind activists escalate the division in our county.

Last year, Dave Rauschkolb minimized the far-reaching constitutional implications of this deliberate attack on basic property rights and convinced the county that only a handful of beach owners would even show up when sued by the county. He was wrong.
Beach Fanatic
#1526
AF, no one is saying, suggestion or allowing disrespectful people on the beach. Both sides of this is in agreement regarding beach behavior. You and others are reaching down into the deep political divide to try and cause fear that The People (citizens and local government) are just wanting to take away your property. Not true. Never was true. The lawsuit will fix those deeds that give an incorrect description of property owned to the MHWL. Of course we can debate that issue but what you are suggesting is that each private or commercial building be given exclusive rights to have absolute control of a natural resource. You might own property on the beach so that would be good for you or would it? Are you suggesting that women and children be arrested and taken to jail when "you" decide inappropriate behavior? I have read enough in this forum to know that just can't happen because individuals who have power are at some point going to abuse that power. Your side of this seems to think that most BPO's want that power. I do not believe they do and this entire conflict has been manipulated by our political divide. The BPO's have been deceived, misdirected and manipulated into the bad old government and the bad old people just want to "take" something from you. I have read nothing from Dave that says that disrespectful behavior is unimportant. As a matter of fact he agrees with BPO's regarding respectful behavior. The truth is once wealthy, powerful and politically connected people have control of the beach there will be very very little beach for the public...

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