Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Beach Lover

Apr 25, '19 · 7:46 AM526,5022

When you see a PCB or Destin bumper sticker, what thought immediately comes to mind? Probably same for all of us with any time spent here - nice, but it ain’t 30A! Do you remember why you started renting/visiting here? What was it? Remember when you bought your first 30A property? Why here?
Because it was DIFFERENT, right? Remember the words you used to describe it to family and friends as you invited them here? “Private” “Quiet” “Intimate” “Less crowded”. That wasn’t by accident. The entire genetic code of Sowal beaches is because of the private ownership and neighborhood beach personalities.
You could rent “private beach”. You could buy “private beach”. There wasn’t a free for all frat party atmosphere because of unlimited public beach access on the sands. That behavior was regulated by the privately owned property where such behavior was immediately squelched. And yet, by custom, no one was ever “Kicked off” of private beaches because owners don’t do that unless bad actors abuse the privilege.
Walton County has always had more than 50% PUBLIC beach. Still does. That hasn’t changed. There are now deliberately misleading fear tactics out there with scary words like “Quiet Title” and “Privatization”, neither of which have affected one single square inch of public beach, not one. Yet, the mob mentality, orchestrated by local carnival barkers eager for fame and notoriety, and dollars, have mislead the citizens and deliberately tried to divide the community in a shell game of Customary Use.
The fact is that the county outran the capabilities of local Commissioners to plan for growth 20 years ago, and we haven’t improved that talent to deal with it even yet. So the County, in failing to plan beach availability, tried to illegally claim private property as public, without following the laws requiring judicial oversight. The local Good Ol’ Boys overreached their authority and got caught by the adults in Tallahassee. So they then decides to sue 4,800 of Sowal citizens to take their property. That’s right, your tax money is being spent, and a lot of it, to SUE almost 5,000 of your neighbors, and steal what they agreed to purchase at a premium, and have a deed to prove it.
Don’t blame them please, they didn’t want or ask for this fight. They live here and care for these beaches just like you and me. Go meet them, they are truly the eclectic fabric of 30A. The signs they had to put up are just in defense of this new orchestrated public attack against them.
The bottom line is this: The minute you release the public to occupy all of Sowal beaches, you IMMEDIATELY get nasty Destin and PCB problems. How will you feel about that 30A sticker then? Nostalgic? Me too.

Replies

2,312

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 2:43 AM#1827

BMBV, good to have you back. I am looking for a moderator for the GREAT debate. Will you reconsider?

No. And remember Reggie corrected me...it was supposed to have been a discussion. And Dave Rauschkolb shows zero interest in such.

You blame the lawsuit on the County but the lawsuit is because the power brokers convinced BFO's that they need to "dispute" recreational use .....

Don’t believe I said the words, “I blame the county for the lawsuit.”

BUT....logically speaking, since you brought it up, if the county actually filed the lawsuit then who else can be blamed but the county for filing the lawsuit? Can’t wait for the next wave of mish-mash to counter the obvious.

Again, I purchased a condo which included and STILL INCLUDES all rights to private property for just over $100,000 with an 80% mortgage almost two decades ago. Does that make me a power broker? Hell no. Does that make me any less passionate regarding protecting my private property from pirating and pilfering politicians? Double hell no.

You really have no substantial argument with my personal situation other than you think I should simply give up my private property rights for the greater good of The People (your term) with absolutely no compensation just because you “feel” it righteous even though the public really doesn’t even try to use our property for the most part....

When the condo was purchased, I NEVER saw the public walk hundreds of feet to sit on our sand. It wasn’t necessary. And in reality, that’s still mostly true today even though tourism has increased multiple amounts over the last two decades.

So you see, I’m defending my property mainly out of principle, not that the public is competing for beach space on our property or because any so called power broker (your words) told me to.

For me, it’s all about the rule of law and the blatant overreach by the county commissioners. I and most private property owners think for themselves. I know, hard for you to believe and/or comprehend.

Edited Oct 28, '19 · 3:11 AM

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 3:20 AM#1828

Funny, I just saw our real estate agent’s name who received a commission on the sale of our condo on Facebook pushing customary use. Do you think I have a case against that agent for not revealing that the condo came with a high probability of customary use litigation even though the condo and common areas are legally deeded as private property to the MHWL at the time of purchase with no customary use burden on the title OR ANYWHERE ELSE for that matter?

Certainly if the agent believes the four cornerstones of customary, then the agent (who currently supports CU) knew full well at the time of the sale that part of my supposed conveyed full package of private property rights was lacking the right to exclude because of customary use (notorious, since time immemorial, etc.) However, the agent never revealed this. This non-disclosure, I believe, is a lot different than, say, not revealing a structural problem or faulty appliance, which they may or may not have known about.

I guess the agent could state the obvious...there wasn’t customary use at that time as the public didn’t walk hundreds of feet to use our property. But if true, there can’t be customary use today on our property for the very same reason.

Beach Lover

Oct 28, '19 · 3:23 AM#1829

Kathyrn, how else would you classify an individual that seeks power to exclude families from the beach and are not even part of this community. I only began using the term after Reggie/Regina used the term. They even called themselves hired guns! The term power broker is not meant to demean or insult or minimize their opinion Only to identify their purpose in this forum

ScJ and FBB, Obviously your purpose has been exposed and the truth hurts. Each time anyone answers your questions you attack as if you are above the laws of the land. It is exactly like your hyperlink of minority and majority rights described an autocrat. I think you are making it worse for the BFO’s. You probably would not do well in a public debate but the offer stands

I'm so happy to hear your "expert" analysis on what other people's purposes are in expressing their thoughts or beliefs. Cause junkies (those who jump on popular causes) amuse me. I happen to be one of the "little people" that the head cause junkie thinks he represents. Apparently my attempt at sarcastic humor is lost on 'cause junkies'.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 5:03 AM#1830

Kathryn, come on now there is no reason to be sarcastic and insulting. We are not enemies. We both are part of this community. When I first clicked on this thread I was on the side of protecting property rights! But when I started asking questions about compromise, individual power to exclude families from the beaches, blocking views with huge buildings all the way to the ground and up several floors, abusing the process, abusing power, lack of credibility and integrity, false statements, manipulated principles, outright dishonesty and hiding both their purpose and identity I quickly sensed something very rotten in their statements of fact. I am not following anything other than my instinct to protect myself from people who abuse power. You can't help but notice how they attack anyone who has a different opinion. They literally believe their opinions and principles are superior to all of us including the BFO's. I feel a sense of standing up to a bunch of bullies. That is the only reason why I keep posting.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 6:12 AM#1831

BMBV, we are not enemies and I understand and respect the laws and principles of property rights. However I do believe we can go too far with our principles. I am willing to debate the issues with people like you and even the power brokers...with respect and civility. This forum allows us to hide our identity and therefore not exactly conducive to respect and civility. I think you and I probably would agree on many things just not private vs public beach. It is okay to disagree and okay to debate the issues again with respect and civility. I am just going to say this. The power brokers don't give a rats aspirin bottle about you or me or our recreational use of the beaches. They are here for one thing: power. The power they want is to control gain full control of a capital asset. If they win this lawsuit it will be a matter of time before they own much more of the beach. Probably would eventually own your condo and trust me to them it will be about profits and whatever their whims are. If we the people public lose this in court it will severely limit who can enjoy the beaches. I wish I were wrong about this but my instincts and common sense say do not trust the purpose of the power broker in protecting anything including our property rights...

Beach Lover

Oct 28, '19 · 7:28 AM#1832

I understand and respect the laws and principles of property rights

If you understand and respect the laws and principals of property rights. Then please understand the following two FACTS

1. Legally deeded private property with defined legally binding property boundaries have been purchased in Walton County (some owned for decades by the same families). These property boundaries are legally protected by the Federal Government, the State of Florida, and until 2016, Walton County. Even if Walton County does not want to recognized them anymore as legally purchased private property, the State of Florida and the Federal Government DOES.

2. The Principals of Property Rights include the Right of Exclusion. That means the County cannot FORCE a private property owner to allow unlimited people with unlimited beach equipment on their legally deeded property against the will of the property owner.

Private property can be purchased but MAY NOT BE TAKEN WITH OUT COMPENSATION. An individual can purchase private property and donate it to Walton County (as has done many, many times in Walton County) or individuals can work with the State of Florida to purchase property and turn it into a State Park (like was done with Topsail), but the County cannot take (AKA steal) property without compensation.

These legally binding private property deeds and property rights are STILL recognized by Federal and State LAWS even the county decided in 2016 to try and remove them. IF Judge Green someone does decide to rule with the BCC and local power broker who stand to gain MILLIONS by REMOVING PROPERTY Rights, then it goes to the next court, and eventually the Supreme Court (actually their is a fast track provision so it may it to the supreme court sooner than later). So, how do you think the Supreme Court will rule on a County trying to remove property rights, effectively trying to steal property from a target group of minority property owners without compensation?

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 8:07 AM#1833

SCJ, I am not a lawyer but I believe you are incorrect. The general recreational public "use" of the beaches is the conservative use that will be recognized by the court. Yes the use is has legal precedent over the deed description. If you do not believe it then just wait on the Court to decide. The general public has more to lose here than the BFO's because no one is "excluding" BFO's from the beach. Beach density and vending are not relevant to the court but it is relevant to our community and need to be addressed. Your group have confirmed this by making this only about exclusive rights to throw families off the beach. That is all you really care about because you are not from this community.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 8:20 AM#1834

SCJ, forgot to address the issue of local authority. I believe the court will recognize the County as being representative of the will of her citizens and will allow the County to make a general conclusion about recreational public use. That authority is real. Your political machine in the legislature required said authority to go thru a process to determine public use or private use. The County is following that requirement. Your political machine is the reason we have a lawsuit at ALL but maybe in the end it will be a good thing if this goes all the way to the Supreme Court. I think we both agree on letting the Supreme Court decide control of this limited resource to autocrats or Recreational Public Use. I would welcome that scenario even though it will cost a lot of money because I want my children, my grandchildren and the future of mankind to be able to enjoy this beautiful resource.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 8:32 AM#1835

Power brokers, I watched a tv program from one of your leaders this weekend. It was about happiness. Apparently only one in three people are consistently happy in the US. The author of the book talked about how to be happy and it was not about material things or power. It was about sharing, giving back and general good will toward others. Kind of like the opposite of what you want in this lawsuit. Maybe you and the others need to practice what your leaders preach. So do I so I enjoyed the program a lot and it made me think of your relentless attacks on the public and my own balance in life. I think we need to let this issue rest in peace and let the Courts decide. Lets relax and have a fish fry without a debate at all. Just get to know each other a little more before either of us gets so riled up. How about it?

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 9:30 AM#1836

BMBV, we are not enemies and I understand and respect the laws and principles of property rights.

Maybe not. But one of us has a funny way of showing it...

bmbv, your post are revealing your character:

1. Dishonest
2. Deceiving
3. Inaccurate
4. Demeaning
5. Dish it out but can't take it
6. Antisocial
7. Anti-community
8. Always hiding behind something

You can stop trying to justify your fake name. I understand why you chose it and why you hide your real name. It's okay. I think we have the picture of who you are and what you represent.

BTW, you never disappoint with your mish-mash, especially with your happiness jibberish.

Damn, I used to like fried fish.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 10:52 AM#1837

Okay you don't remember that I apologized to you? You are local. Someone with skin in the game. When I made that statement I was actually lumping you in with the power brokers and that was wrong but I stand behind that statement for the power brokers.

Ask the power brokers about the TV program that I watched on TBN I think. I get most of my information from learning from the statements coming from the power brokers. So the happiness jibberish came from those you side with!

Man, lets do the fish fry. Seriously

Beach Lover

Oct 28, '19 · 11:17 AM#1838

Kathryn, come on now there is no reason to be sarcastic and insulting. We are not enemies. We both are part of this community. When I first clicked on this thread I was on the side of protecting property rights! But when I started asking questions about compromise, individual power to exclude families from the beaches, blocking views with huge buildings all the way to the ground and up several floors, abusing the process, abusing power, lack of credibility and integrity, false statements, manipulated principles, outright dishonesty and hiding both their purpose and identity I quickly sensed something very rotten in their statements of fact. I am not following anything other than my instinct to protect myself from people who abuse power. You can't help but notice how they attack anyone who has a different opinion. They literally believe their opinions and principles are superior to all of us including the BFO's. I feel a sense of standing up to a bunch of bullies. That is the only reason why I keep posting.

Beach Lover

Oct 28, '19 · 11:31 AM#1839

Wait a minute here. You're insulted by something Kayti said but you have no problem with someone telling her that she's stupid? I think some on this forum just have a problem with the idea that everybody doesn't agree with what you believe.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 11:54 AM#1840

SP, no you misunderstand. I am not insulted and I don't know who called her stupid. I would never do that to anyone. Cause junkie does not bother me but I was referring to at least two other people she has a beef with. I believe that she might be a little tired of my posts but so am I so we actually agree on that issue.

I must not be communicating clearly because I believe it is okay to disagree as long as we are respectful and civil. I do not expect everyone to agree with me and prefer debating the issue until a compromise can be established. Anyway I think you are barking up the wrong tree. There are some people posting here that call anyone with a differing opinion as stupid and it ain't me. Go back and read FBB, Reggie Regina and the others.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 5:09 PM#1841

Okay you don't remember that I apologized to you?

Yes, I do remember.

One usually apologizes for many things....
Being late;
A car accident;
Bumping into somebody’s cart at the grocery store;
Forgetting one’s anniversary;
Asking a fat woman when she’s expecting.

On the other hand you made a concerted effort to insult me with no less than eight (8) character assassination “bullet” items. It’s the same difference between a murder of passion vs. a premeditated one. It took you time to write those eight items. And there was NOTHING ACCIDENTAL about it (as in a slip of the tongue), all premeditated. Plus you had an hour to reconsider your words and delete them after you posted them.

Man, lets do the fish fry. Seriously

Seriously, can’t attend.

Edited Oct 28, '19 · 5:34 PM

Beach Lover

Oct 28, '19 · 6:12 PM#1842

Maybe not. But one of us has a funny way of showing it...

BTW, you never disappoint with your mish-mash, especially with your happiness jibberish.

Damn, I used to like fried fish.

Maybe insults are in the eye of the delusional, as in "I can say what I want to and about you but I dare you say anything unflattering to or about me"..

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 6:49 PM#1843

BMBV, you have said much worse to me and others and I am not offended in the least. Where I come from you better have thick skin. Obviously you don’t. An apology was offered and not accepted. Time to move on. I have more fish to fry so to speak...

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 8:17 PM#1844

BMBV, you have said much worse to me and others and I am not offended in the least. Where I come from you better have thick skin. Obviously you don’t. An apology was offered and not accepted. Time to move on. I have more fish to fry so to speak...

Oh you bet I’ve got thick skin after over a decade of insults and attacks here on SoWal aimed at me / beach front owners. What I don’t have is a thick head. Your pathetic attempt to back pedal from your uncalled direct attack via an all encompassing multipoint character assassination, combined in one single post reveals more than I really care to know about you. Personally, you can take your fish fry and st..............

You are without a doubt one of the worst customary use advocates who doesn’t hold a position with FBFA.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 28, '19 · 10:11 PM#18453

Judge Greens Ruling Issued on October 25th

Edited Oct 28, '19 · 10:40 PM

Beach Fanatic

Oct 29, '19 · 6:56 AM#1846

BMBV, your comments are proof of your character as well as mine. I am no Judge of anyone's character. I can only make observations based on words and actions. In this forum you have personally attacked people on a consistent basis. If I were to go back and quote every personal attack you made it would be a much longer presentation than 8 bullet points. That said I respect you for at least being local and having even thin skin in the game and motioned an apology. You denied that motion. So, that case is closed and your jurisdiction has been vacated

It is a shame that people are hell bent on making enemies. Life is short. Humans are imperfect and there are consequences for our behavior. You seem to believe that you are above those consequences probably because you hide behind a fake name but Life is a circle of truth. We are not above that truth. We can not hide from that truth. Observations are all we have in a forum like this. All of us have provided each other with many observations of character. I am not judging your character but the collection of information is there and so is mine. Humans are imperfect and make mistakes but it is that circle of truth that defines who we are. When I make a mistake I own it. Your observations of my character are important only to the extent that they are within that circle of truth. The truth is our judge. That circle of life illuminates the truth and there is no where to hide...

Beach LoverAuthor

Oct 29, '19 · 8:14 AM#1847

I met a young professional married couple in our community last night at dinner, recent transplants from afar. They have 2 young kids, and after a while of chatting, they disclosed their uneasiness in going to their neighborhood beach access. They “Were very afraid of confrontation”. So instead, they only went to state park beaches. Here was my advice...

Don’t be afraid, you’ll be just fine. It isn’t nearly as bad as the social media and liberal panhandle newsrags are reporting. There are absolutely a handful of complete beachfront jerks, so stay away from them: here, here, and here.

Otherwise, when you suspect you are on private property, be respectful. Act as if you are a guest, because you are. No normal beachfront property owner will kick a young family off of the beach when being respectful.

What does that mean? Don’t set up a “camp” on their beach, don’t play loud music, or dig up holes and trenches and then don't fill them in, don’t throw trash around, or leave cigarette butts, or get drunk & obnoxious, etc. Beachfront property owners, for the most part, welcome respectful, quiet, beach goers with zero chance of having an issue.

I also pointed out that now that the recent court docs are showing what we’ve been predicting here since April, the loud and obnoxious trumpeters of CU propaganda have all but disappeared from their normal perches, as their credibility is all but gone. I comforted this family in the fact that most of us enjoyed seeing them enjoying the beach with their children, and we would always be there to protect the beach atmosphere we’re known for around here. But without the senseless ambush videos and public hysteria orchestrated by a now retreating few, to drive a political agenda of further future overdevelopment.

I then directed them to a story here about a “30A legacy” of a unique beach atmosphere that will return once the truth about this manufactured CU hoax comes out in plain view. Almost there.....

Edited Oct 29, '19 · 8:20 AM

Beach Fanatic

Oct 29, '19 · 10:27 AM#1848

Reggie/Regina, thank you for that wonderful story. I motion that we include this story as evidence for the peaceful coexistence between BFO's and the General Public recreating on the beaches that has been a part of this community for generations. I applaud your honesty regarding the purpose of this beautiful resource that was meant for all to enjoy not just a very few. It is a perfect example of recreational public use on Walton County Beaches! I applaud your honesty. Recreational public use is part of the 30A Legacy. I am glad to see you illuminate this truth. Maybe we can now allow the judicial process to conclude with cheers and salutations as both sides are winners. Lets all go to the beach and enjoy the spirit of happiness in sharing and caring! I think you got a little distracted toward the end but great post!

Beach LoverAuthor

Oct 29, '19 · 11:26 AM#1849

Oh, almost forgot, I also told them... Once this CU case goes away, the fervor dies off , and everything quiets down, and we get back to normal,
If you INSTEAD really want to see more signs, ropes, ejections, removals, exclusions, and beach jerks, then all you have to do is:
1) Tell a property owner they actually don’t own any property rights because YOU want to use their property and are (FEEL) entitled to it
2) Provoke a confrontation with a Beach Property Owner by deliberately creating a false beach conflict and posting inaccurate narrative on social media
3) Accuse the Beach Property Owner of somehow stealing his/her property
4) Sue the Beach Property Owner in court to try and take away his/her property or rights thereto same
5) Spread loud and false public claims of beach privatization, quiet title myths, taxation falsehoods, or make believe Old English Colonial Law fantasies.

Pretty much the same thing that the sane voices on this thread have repeated in much more eloquent fashion.
And then there’s this newsflash...
Fried fish is bad for you, it’s 2019.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 29, '19 · 2:41 PM#1850

Reggie did the young professional couple with two kids decide to go to the beach or run for their lives

The story kind of took a turn so not sure if you soothed their uneasiness or not!?!

You are right about the fried fish. My oldest daughter bought me an air fryer. It's okay but if you and I want the good stuff then I still got my Cajun Fryer! Funny story. A friend of mine from Seattle had a fish fryer on his back porch. When he fired it up for the first time his neighbors came over to see what that thing was. They had never seen one before!