PCB passes ordinance: $500 fine if you enter Gulf under double red flags.

As with all laws, it is the enforcement of said laws. If those tasked with enforcement are unable to do so, for whatever reason, it is one more law on the books.

Agree. You would think that some things are to be "self-enforced". Although, I witnessed a mom allowing her young kids to play in "double-red flag" surf a couple of weeks ago. She told them to get out only b/c the PCB Sheriff was patrolling by. Really!?! Get out b/c the sheriff is coming; not b/c it's unsafe!?! #poorjudgement

We may need an ordinance that says...no hunting in Deer Lake State Park!!! Because you never know!

As with all laws, it is the enforcement of said laws. If those tasked with enforcement are unable to do so, for whatever reason, it is one more law on the books.

You are right Bob, enforcement is key. But if this ordinance makes a mom or dad give pause before letting their kids into double red flag waters, it will be a great first step in getting visitors to respect the Gulf.

At every Public Beach Access there is a sign explaining the Flag System that people seem to ignore on a regular basis. That said, how do you believe people are going to be aware of the new fines, so they take pause before going swimming in double red. Lifeguards constantly attempt to educate visitors as to the dangers and they are ignored. I hope it works but I am not very optimistic about it.

You are right Bob, enforcement is key. But if this ordinance makes a mom or dad give pause before letting their kids into double red flag waters, it will be a great first step in getting visitors to respect the Gulf.

The ordinance states that you get one free warning before a fine kicks in. I doubt this will change behavior too much.

Looks like a good thing to me. The law makes it consistent across all the Panama City Beach, city and county, with stronger enforcement.

The ordinance gives both the Police and Fire departments authority to enforce the closed water rule.

“We’re all excited about that. It’s been a long time coming. Anything to help. The tourists coming in here, just for safety and it’s not just for tourists. It’ll help our locals here,” City Councilman, Phil Chester said.

It also adds more awareness throughout the businesses along the beach as they will be required to increase the closed water and flag system signage.

The new ordinance will operate practically identical to Bay County’s ordinance.

City Councilman Geoff McConnell said, ” Now that we have it for the entire 21 miles that we have of beach line, it’s going to be a nice seamless transition for both the police department and the sheriff’s office and it also gives us an added ability for the fire department to give civil penalties.”

If a member of fire rescue enforces the law, after a warning, the second offense will result in a $250 dollar fine and the third is $500 dollars.

While it exempt surfers, Councilman Paul Casto says he is still pushing for a flotation device to be made available.

“We’re hoping to add two of the type 4 Coast Guard approved flotation devices that will be stationed at each commercial hut down on the white sandy beach,” Casto said.

Alisha Redmon, who lost her husband in a drowning while he was trying to save others, says she too wants the addition of the resources.

“I’m not a strong swimmer. I need that. I need that security. You told me not to do a human chain because you’re only as strong as your weakest link, then give me something to work with,” Redmon said.

Casto said, “It’s been proven that people are going to go into the water to try and rescue people so the more flotation devices we have readily available on the beach, the more chances we will have of helping people.”

The council agreed to discuss this topic more and possibly amend the ordinance at a later date.

The police and fire department can now start to fine and arrest people who disregard the rules during double red flags.

The businesses, however, will have until next season before the ordinance effects them.

The PCB City Council is also hosting a Beach Safety Public Workshop on Tuesday, August 13 at 1:00 p.m. inside the Lyndell Conference Center. The Bay County Commission and TDC are also apart of the event.


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At every Public Beach Access there is a sign explaining the Flag System that people seem to ignore on a regular basis. That said, how do you believe people are going to be aware of the new fines, so they take pause before going swimming in double red. Lifeguards constantly attempt to educate visitors as to the dangers and they are ignored. I hope it works but I am not very optimistic about it.

I'm not optimistic either Bob. The greatest advantage of the ordinance is that it gives the responders/officers SOMETHING to discourage those that insist on going in. It has to be frustrating for them as it has been.

But, two ideas:

1. Add a third flag under the two double reds. Red flag with the words "$500 FINE" in the largest print possible. That's all that's needed. Most people will understand what it means, and then there's the folks who ask "what does the $500 Fine about?", whereby a lifeguard, resident, etc. can explain it. For the "rules don't apply to me, I AM on vacation" folks, you can string barbed wire along the water's edge under double reds and they will go in. I vote we make Tshirts for them with the words "Future Floater".

2. Walton County pass a similar ordinance.

Why are surfers exempt?

Walton already has an ordinance I believe. I do not know what the fine is but it seems Jason Aldean was stroked a ticket that cost him $100, if the news can be believed.

I'm not optimistic either Bob. The greatest advantage of the ordinance is that it gives the responders/officers SOMETHING to discourage those that insist on going in. It has to be frustrating for them as it has been.

But, two ideas:

1. Add a third flag under the two double reds. Red flag with the words "$500 FINE" in the largest print possible. That's all that's needed. Most people will understand what it means, and then there's the folks who ask "what does the $500 Fine about?", whereby a lifeguard, resident, etc. can explain it. For the "rules don't apply to me, I AM on vacation" folks, you can string barbed wire along the water's edge under double reds and they will go in. I vote we make Tshirts for them with the words "Future Floater".

2. Walton County pass a similar ordinance.

At every Public Beach Access there is a sign explaining the Flag System that people seem to ignore on a regular basis.

So Bob, would you like to reopen discussion on what happened on July 3rd, 2018 at Grayton Beach regarding one's reliance on the flag system? Or would your job be threatened for doing so? If you don't want to reply, I understand.

Click for thread.

I do not remember the call. But as you have brought it up again I will venture a guess you haven't discussed the incident with the Beach Safety Director. David Vaughn 8502671090, he is there Monday through Friday and I can assure you he would be in a better position to answer your question than I. I will also say this, the SWFD is pretty transparent in their dealings. I will be there Friday, you are more than Welcome to stop by and I will give you a tour of the Department.

So Bob, would you like to reopen discussion on what happened on July 3rd, 2018 at Grayton Beach regarding one's reliance on the flag system? Or would your job be threatened for doing so? If you don't want to reply, I understand.

Click for thread.

I do not remember the call. But as you have brought it up again I will venture a guess you haven't discussed the incident with the Beach Safety Director. David Vaughn 8502671090, he is there Monday through Friday and I can assure you he would be in a better position to answer your question than I. I will also say this, the SWFD is pretty transparent in their dealings. I will be there Friday, you are more than Welcome to stop by and I will give you a tour of the Department.

I would venture to guess the same or did not get the answers they may have been looking for to align with their beliefs.

I would venture to guess the same or did not get the answers they may have been looking for to align with their beliefs.

When I looked back on the thread one thing stood out to me, he asked the lifeguard who was there that day about the incident that happened another day. I don't know if they rotate folks to different towers or if they were even in duty on the day in question.

Respectfully, it’s not needed to call the number you suggest as it appears you don’t want to open up a dialogue on the beach flag system with me regarding the events on July 3rd, 2018. I’m fully aware as to what occurred that day. And again, I think I understand why you won’t engage me and respect that.

For the others...
I have a problem with all this cheerleading for a $500 government fine when someone enters the water under a double red flag.

On the flip side, rhetorically speaking, should the county be fined $500 when one person drowns (and almost two others) because the flag system was more than COMPLETELY WRONG that day?

There was no mention of the drownings in the July 2018 SWFD Activity Report or their Facebook page or the local papers. I expect and demand more in the future from SWFD and our local press. Let the public be fully aware that nothing’s perfect and that one can still drown even with all of the flags, lifeguards and other precautions in place out there.

Well then, you know more than I do about the day and the issues. We can talk all day about beach flags but there will be nothing accomplished because those who handle them are more knowledgeable about them than I.

Respectfully, it’s not needed to call the number you suggest as it appears you don’t want to open up a dialogue on the beach flag system with me regarding the events on July 3rd, 2018. I’m fully aware as to what occurred that day. And again, I think I understand why you won’t engage me and respect that.

For the others...
I have a problem with all this cheerleading for a $500 government fine when someone enters the water under a double red flag.

On the flip side, rhetorically speaking, should the county be fined $500 when one person drowns (and almost two others) because the flag system was more than COMPLETELY WRONG that day?

There was no mention of the drownings in the July 2018 SWFD Activity Report or their Facebook page or the local papers. I expect and demand more in the future from SWFD and our local press. Let the public be fully aware that nothing’s perfect and that one can still drown even with all of the flags, lifeguards and other precautions in place out there.

When I looked back on the thread one thing stood out to me, he asked the lifeguard who was there that day about the incident that happened another day. I don't know if they rotate folks to different towers or if they were even in duty on the day in question.

Agree. I stand by observation.

Why are surfers exempt?

Because, technically, a surfboard is a flotation device. Plus, under double reds, surfers will most likely have on the leash.

I have a problem with all this cheerleading for a $500 government fine when someone enters the water under a double red flag.

On the flip side, rhetorically speaking, should the county be fined $500 when one person drowns (and almost two others) because the flag system was more than COMPLETELY WRONG that day?
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OK....then, please, offer your solutions for how to keep unaware, and/or "rules dont apply to me" people that insist on going in the water under double reds which have a higher probability of needing rescue and thereby endangering the rescuer.

Fines are usually put in place to discourage certain behaviors, i.e. speeding.

OK....then, please, offer your solutions for how to keep unaware, and/or "rules dont apply to me" people that insist on going in the water under double reds which have a higher probability of needing rescue and thereby endangering the rescuer.

Fines are usually put in place to discourage certain behaviors, i.e. speeding.

It's not just the fine. According to the article fire department, police and beach safety personnel are given the responsibility of enforcing the rules. PCB is doing the best thing for their beaches and are working together to make sure that they implement it as part of their beach safety programs in a unified manner. We've watched PCB make a difference in their beach town with spring break rules etc. Good for them. They don't have customary use issues. I'm not sure about beach vendor takeovers. Sounds like they are doing good things.

@Bob Wells and @enfuego , you could not be more incorrect regarding your comments regarding the lifeguards' REFUSAL to comment to me on the drownings that took place less than 24 hours earlier in Grayton Beach. They looked like classical deer on the road with headlights in their eyes. I'm not sure they would have even pointed out which way Grayton Beach was if I had asked in the same line of conversation. They were kids who looked very worried that I was asking too many questions. Again, in hindsight, they were reacting exactly as they probably had been trained to do.

And I don't have a problem with that.

Bob, I am surprised that you won't confirm that it's standard policy for SWFD including lifeguards NOT TO comment on issues like this, especially right after they occurred (ongoing investigation, autopsy and so on), for liability reasons. If it's not standard policy then there should be a shake-up in the ranks.

With that said and going back to the topic at hand - beach flag system and $500 penalties .....

Remember the flesh eating bacteria drama? The good side to all the hype was that if one had an open cut or a deficient immune system they would think twice about going in the water because of all the information that was being disseminated (myself included). And that did not cost anybody one single dime in "fines". On the flip side, there were a lot of concerns regarding lost tourism all over Florida.

How do you try to prevent the general public from doing stupid things besides implementing fines? You "scare" them by INFORMING them as above. On the other thread as I showed, Okaloosa County openly releases the details of all drownings to the press who then publishes it for the world to see.

The point of commenting on this thread and the other thread is that, IMHO, Walton County swept this drowning under the sand. Again nothing was posted on SWFD Facebook Page. And I still find it very curious that no journalist picked up on the story.

The conspiracy theorist in me (and it's not just my opinion BTW as one can probably guess), believe the threat of losing an almighty tourist dollar (with bad news such as this) trumps the public's need to be informed. Call a drowning a drowning and maybe people will understand that they could be next if they use bad judgement.

Because, technically, a surfboard is a flotation device. Plus, under double reds, surfers will most likely have on the leash.

Walton County ordinance requires surfers and bodyboarders to have a leash attached in order to enter the water on red or double red flag conditions. We (surfers) were involved in this language being entered into the ordinance. I believe, in addition to teaching the public about the flag system and rip currents and what to do if in one, the public should be taught to only enter the water under these conditions if you have a body board or surfboard attached with a leash. Meaning you start the communication to the public with that information. "Only those people with boards and leashes may enter the water in red flag conditions." This accomplishes a very important element of safety. People will be extremely less likely to drown with a stable floatation device attached to their arm or leg. Less likely to panic if they get caught in a rip current and less likely to panic if they get a mouthful of water. Panic is the killer. "Only those people with boards and leashes may enter the water in red flag conditions." These words should be all that is needed to communicate the rules...anyone else is fined heavily if they enter the water without a board and leash. Simple.

I have been surfing 42 years all over the world and I have never witnessed a person drown, not once with a leash and board attached to their body. This is the rule in Hawaii and it is strictly enforced. You can educate the public with one sentence. Simple. The simpler the rule and communication, the more effectively it is implemented perpetuated into the local culture. People tell each other: "Only those people with boards and leashes may enter the water in red flag conditions." Simple. The below information should have the the above sentence front, center and first. It says it all and I believe will save lives.

Something for the County to consider: I HAVE MODIFED THE FLAG COMMUNICATION BELOW TO INCLUDE THE WORDS: "Water Closed to Swimming. Only surfers and body boarders allowed in the water with leash attached."


SAFELY ENJOY OUR SOUTH WALTON BEACH
BEACH FLAG COLOR WARNING SYSTEM

Double Red Flag - Water Closed to Swimming. Only surfers and body boarders allowed in the water with leash attached.

Red Flag - High Hazard. Water closed to Swimming. Only surfers and body boarders allowed in the water with leash attached.

Yellow Flag - Moderate Surf/Currents
Green Flag - Calm Conditions
Purple Flag - Marine Pests Present

https://www.visitsouthwalton.com/beach-safety/

Red Flag - High Hazard. Water closed to Swimming. Only surfers and body boarders allowed in the water with leash attached.

Water is not closed to swimmers under a single red flag.

SWFD link

Water is not closed to swimmers under a single red flag.

SWFD link

He is aware of the current wording. He states he is suggesting a modification to the warnings.

Water is not closed to swimmers under a single red flag.

SWFD link

The flag system is too cumbersome and confusing. For starters all we need is one red flag. No swimming.

According to USLA this is the standard

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw1IHHrmHnlaBMxAcGWVE08L&cshid=1566128993214

The flag system is too cumbersome and confusing. For starters all we need is one red flag. No swimming.