Honk for Confederate Pride

[Geo]

I agree with whomever it was that said that this might be one of those abortion like issues in that both sides are strong in their convictions and will just keep making solid arguments to each other with no end in sight. Perhaps a cry to- agree to disagree...

But I cannot help but wonder-

Is there anyone out there who, as a result of this dialogue, has had a change of heart (in either direction) on this issue?

 

[Bob]

Ocala :roll: There are some Southerners in Gainesville, and lots of horsey people in Ocala.







See my quote from Jeb Bush (okay, a spokeswoman), circa 2001, on page 1 of this thread: "the governor believes that most Floridians would agree that the symbols of Florida's past should not be displayed in a manner that may divide Floridians today." Jeb recognized that this was a slippery slope.

Perhaps Jeb could have asked if the image of the first governor of Florida on the twenty dollar bill is divisive to native Americans. I guess Jeb was busy with planning a future of selling worthless securities to the state, his wife was deciding which body cavity to put jewelry in for the airport gauntlet, and the Seminoles were reading about slot machine maintenance. Someone ahead of my post has pointed out the stupidity of the migration of bumper stickers to license plates, It's done to generate private cause slush funds. The controversy stems from the fact that there seems to be no end to the variants, and this is the end game when everyone wants in. Money is the root of this waste of time, just as money was at the root of the cause of the civil war. Perhaps someone should ask law enforcement just how difficult to spot any one vehicle with a Florida license plate? Maybe we'll have a blank white graffiti tag, whereby the owner gives it his/her personal spraypaint touch, and the money goes to the ACLU.

 

[Bob]

I am not a Southerner but I love the South and I find this whole debate sad more than anything.

It is as if the Confederacy not only lost the Civil War, which of course it catastrophically did, condemning subsequent generations to dreadful economic hardship and a bitterness which persists even to this day, as we see here. But it also lost the ideological conflict too. History may famously be written by the victors, but do the vanquished have to read their propaganda and agree with it also?

The Confederate Battle Flag is not just a symbol of slavery, surely? It was/is the symbol of an incipient Southern nationhood which was brutally crushed by force of arms.

THE most potent symbol of Southern culture and identity. The pictorial representation of a secession of equal legitimacy (or illegitimacy) as the American Revolution itself.

Both were armed rebellions asserting a right to independence from the then legally constituted Government. (And both had slavery as an integral part).

Successful secessionists are patriots and heroes. Unsuccessful ones are traitorous rebels and slave holding racists. George Washington ended up on the banknotes with the Capital City named in his honour. Jefferson Davis in chains in the dungeon of Fortress Monroe.

The battle flag is a symbol which includes a legacy of slavery, and also the bigotry of many racists who have subsequently flown it. You can't gainsay that unfortunate reality.

But it encompasses so much more than that. A whole nation and culture. The sacrifice of a generation of young men lost in a pointless war which decimated the Confederacy in a way unparalleled in the much more populous North. Above all it exemplifies that famous, estimable Southern pride which was the only thing the Yankees could not take away by force.

Everyone has a right to it not just the redneck bigots. All of you guys should be able to remember the fate of those ancestors of yours who fought and died under that flag. You SHOULD proudly display it on your car if you feel so inclined.

Sadly, as this debate shows, you just can't.

That is the tragedy of the South even today.

In war, when you win, you move on, but when you lose, you can never let it go.

 

[John R]

I think I may petition for this license plate:

 

[hnooe]

I agree with whomever it was that said that this might be one of those abortion like issues in that both sides are strong in their convictions and will just keep making solid arguments to each other with no end in sight. Perhaps a cry to- agree to disagree...

But I cannot help but wonder-

Is there anyone out there who, as a result of this dialogue, has had a change of heart (in either direction) on this issue?

Good Question! For me it has not changed one thing. A vanity license plate like this attemps to legitimize (Fla. Gov't plates) the negative feelings that some may continue to feel about the Confederate flag.

No, it is not being waved by some red neck at a rally and it is not stuck on car like a adhesive bumper sticker, but in some people's minds it still a strong negative and always will!

 

[hnooe]

In war, when you win, you move on, but when you lose, you can never let it go.

A simple and correct answer to a question that will be ongoing...............

 

[seaside2]

take it for what it says to you as a person

 

[30A Skunkape]

Perhaps Jeb could have asked if the image of the first governor of Florida on the twenty dollar bill is divisive to native Americans. I guess Jeb was busy with planning a future of selling worthless securities to the state, his wife was deciding which body cavity to put jewelry in for the airport gauntlet, and the Seminoles were reading about slot machine maintenance. Someone ahead of my post has pointed out the stupidity of the migration of bumper stickers to license plates, It's done to generate private cause slush funds. The controversy stems from the fact that there seems to be no end to the variants, and this is the end game when everyone wants in. Money is the root of this waste of time, just as money was at the root of the cause of the civil war. Perhaps someone should ask law enforcement just how difficult to spot any one vehicle with a Florida license plate? Maybe we'll have a blank white graffiti tag, whereby the owner gives it his/her personal spraypaint touch, and the money goes to the ACLU.

Perhaps, but considering the design has been in place since the 1920s, maybe not. Maybe you can pin it on W? Welcome back Bob, where have you been hiding?

 

[Geo]

take it for what it says to you as a person

To me it says-

You are arguably much wiser than me for not wearing your heart on your sleeve/tipping your hat toward either side of the issue in this forum...

 

[Teresa]

TFT - I agree with you! this discussion is fascinating from beginning to end. and of course we do have a little disagreement. but overall, I believe most people (who have commented) agree that the flag is not a postiive thing for the Florida government to support.

it has reminded me to be grateful for the beauty and harmony we share in the south, especially in sowal, during this day and time. the people here (and on this board) are truly inspirational. and I am speaking about every person who has spoken, because they have the courage to do so, and because they trust us with what they believe and think and feel.

it gives us a chance to look at things from another perspective. I appreciate that.

have I learned or changed my opinion? yes, no. but, I have a better understanding by listening, and by giving this matter thought for the first time in about 15 years (it just does not come up in normal conversation in these parts - thankfully).

should the state sponsor the conferate flag/symbol on the license plate? I would say no, but if they do then it is not going to ruin my day. in some ways, I beleve those who want to be represented by the symbol, for whatever reason, then let 'em go for it. i do hope the money does not support schools in any way.

have we all missed Bob? yes!

IMO:
A license plate is a government issued and publicly displayed form of identification.

If they issue a license plate that benefits a certain group, they give that group legitimacy and ARE approving of that cause.

If you can get a license plate for your cause it is now a group/cause recognized by the government and funds are collected by the government on behalf of that group.

I think the group who asked for this license plate has a good cause (funds go to maintain gravesites etc) and that they just need a different design that removes the racial overtones that the flag unfortunately represents. A graphic showing a veteran, a cannon, or a military figure w/ the tag line "honoring our confederate veterans" etc. would be much less controversial.

you are a wise scooterbug!

In war, when you win, you move on, but when you lose, you can never let it go.

exactamente.

To me it says-

You are arguably much wiser than me for not wearing your heart on your sleeve/tipping your hat toward either side of the issue in this forum...

you give too much credit here, imo. i like your comments geow whether I agree or not (I almost always do). that way I know where you are coming from, and can seriously think and listen and discuss.