bioidentical hormones

[30A Skunkape]

Skunky, I have a very direct question that I hope you'll answer.

You meant a looong question

Why do you tow the hard-core, everything the FDA says is gold and anything from a holistic POV is crap? It's just puzzling to me because you are very intelligent and well-read, but you pooh-pooh anything that you deem not mainstream. It's "The FDA says this..." and "The FDA says that..." then "caveat emporum!" on anything that you don't agree on, especially supplements.

I don't tow any such line. How can you argue with the concept of caveat emporum? I guess my biggest concern with many of the alternative therapies is that I focus on outcomes, and the interventions I advocate have strong, non-biased outcome data backing them up. This data is so rare in the realm of alternative therapies, and indeed, when data that casts doubt upon the value of certain interventions or vitamins/herbs in doing anything valuable comes to light, the promoters of said alternative remedies dig in and insist there were flaws in testing, etc and still sell worthless products. That is my biggest obstacle with advocating more of the alternative stuff.

In my time as a parent, our kids have had 3 pediatricians because of different geographical locations. All are in mainstream practices and see a wide range of patients, but allow the patient's parent to educate themselves without coming down on them harshly for making a decision outside what the FDA says or the American Academy of Pediatrics says. Honestly, the first one used to say, "Here is what the AAP wants me to tell all my patients... and here is what I tell my educated parents..." It was refreshing. The second one actually had books on natural healing there to reference as options to the parents, from supplements to herbs to homeopathy. They wrote prescriptions when need be, even gave them out to parents who wanted nothing but drugs and could care less about other forms of healing. But the point is they EXPLORED other options freely and allowed parents to do the same.

Why do you assume I come down hard on parents who want to explore options not advocated by the AAP? To the contrary, I am way more liberal regarding pediatric interventions than most pediatricians. I am very blunt (politely) regarding the fact that every sniffle, cough or fever does not require Orapred and antibiotics. I dissuade parents from giving kids younger than 6 years cold remedies-they don't work! You know what I suggest for little ones (over two years) who have a nagging cough? A little honey at bedtime! It is just as effective as any OTC formulation, is way cheaper and poses no toxicity potential. You know what I suggest parents try to relieve colic? Fennel seed oil! By goodness, a Cuban mom told me that was what they used, and lo and behold, it works! You might also be surprised to know I have a comprehensive text of complementary and alternative medicine on my bookshelf, and I do use it with parents and adults as a tool to go over alternative remedies if they want to go that route. I have no problem with that, as long as I know they are not screwing around with a truly dangerous condition. Case in point, a Mexican national presented to Sacred Heart last month with a new diagnosis of AIDS and PCP pneumonia. With great effort, he was brought back to a state of health that was good enough to send him home. FREE antibiotics and anti-viral meds were arranged for him to pick up at the county health unit. Unfortunately, he didn't show up to his follow ups and represented to the ER about three weeks later with his PCP pneumonia worse than ever and bleeding from the GI tract. Now he is dead. His life was taken by some idiot in this community who convinced him they could provide him with an herbal concoction that was better then legitimate HIV meds and antibiotics-THAT is the kind of thing that I will not tolerate. Nor will I tolerate parents who do not allow their children to be vaccinated. That may sound cold, but that is my policy-I believe that shows a certain amount of ignorance and I have no tolerance for people who value their internet research over good public health policy. I simply tell them we obviously have incompatible philosophies on something I think is vital, thus it would be best if we severed our relationship and I give them a list of other providers.

I don't agree with the current healthcare system in the United States. It's all about drugs or sugery. It's so short-sighted. To me, integrative medicine that balances allopathic with holistic forms of healing is ideal. Then a patient can go to one practitioner for their whole health, instead of having to see an MD and the go see an herbalist or nutritionist on the side. The only thing that is going to help change that is if it changes from within. I don't blame you or any other MD for the way that you practice medicine or even for the whole damn fiasco that's going on in healthcare today. It's bigger than you and me. I just wish you'd be more open & not so freaking black and white on things. You've got people that are honestly seeking info and look to you because you are an MD and you robotically respond negatively to anything not endorsed by the FDA.

You will be relieved to know that I recognize 'polypharmacy' as an affliction and try to reduce medications as much as is possible. I don't do much in the way of surgery, and I don't know if we do too much of it or not (except c-sections, which for many different reasons we love in this country). I have no problem with people going to alternative providers, but I must tell you, many of the ones who do are on a staggering number of vitamins and supplements. Often times when I try to figure out why they are taking XYZ supplement they shrug unknowingly. I also encourage them to demand outcome data when they are paying big bucks for unorthodox therapy. For example, one of my kids has autism and his parents have spent an extraordinary amount of money on time spent in hyperbaric chambers and chelation treatments, neither of which have any documented efficacy in improving autism yet cost lots of $$$. I am incredibly open minded but I feel like it is my job to try to discourage quackery and (frankly) legalized stealing from desperate people.

There's good, bad and ugly on both sides, Skunky. Promoting that drugs are the only safe way to go is a giant crock of bat turds, to put it bluntly.

You will never see a single post in any of my 5000+ that says anything of the sort. I will buy you a wheat grass shot for every one you can document where I said anything of the sort

 

[organicmama]

You will never see a single post in any of my 5000+ that says anything of the sort. I will buy you a wheat grass shot for every one you can document where I said anything of the sort

Thank you for your response. Now, SoWallers can see both sides of Skunky in one post. Honestly, I knew it was in there somewhere. The only thing that I think we will just have to agree to disagree on is the fact that I feel on both sides, the info on treatments is rarely unbiased. That's why in another thread I mentioned that taking literature on either side just on face value is totally crazy.

BTW, I've only had 2 wheatgrass shots in my life. Love juicing but it takes so much time to clean-up and I don't have that right now. Ironically, I went to an info session at Jen's juice bar and after it was over, scooted over to Amavida for coffee. And for the record, never had a massage. Manual chiropractors scare the hell outta me (childhood fear from something my mama said to my dad:roll. I buy and eat as much organic as possible at home but if you ever catch me in the Chick-Fil-A line in Destin (on the few trips I make it that far), don't be surprised.

 

[30A Skunkape]

Thank you for your response. Now, SoWallers can see both sides of Skunky in one post. Honestly, I knew it was in there somewhere. The only thing that I think we will just have to agree to disagree on is the fact that I feel on both sides, the info on treatments is rarely unbiased. That's why in another thread I mentioned that taking literature on either side just on face value is totally crazy.

BTW, I've only had 2 wheatgrass shots in my life. Love juicing but it takes so much time to clean-up and I don't have that right now. Ironically, I went to an info session at Jen's juice bar and after it was over, scooted over to Amavida for coffee. And for the record, never had a massage. Manual chiropractors scare the hell outta me (childhood fear from something my mama said to my dad:roll. I buy and eat as much organic as possible at home but if you ever catch me in the Chick-Fil-A line in Destin (on the few trips I make it that far), don't be surprised.

If it is any consolation I have had a grand total of one wheat grass shot in my life, courtesy of a well respected local health food store. The resulting mess was, well, green

 

[organicmama]

If it is any consolation I have had a grand total of one wheat grass shot in my life, courtesy of a well respected local health food store. The resulting mess was, well, green

Same place I had mine. Give me a fruit smoothie with Greens + any day.

 

[Teresa]

I thought this was relevant to this thread:

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) sent letters warning seven pharmacy operations that the claims they make about the safety and effectiveness of their so-called "bio-identical hormone replacement therapy," or "BHRT" products are unsupported by medical evidence, and are considered false and misleading by the agency. FDA is concerned that unfounded claims like these mislead women and health care professionals.
http://www.pharmwatch.org/reg/bioidentical.shtml

caveat emporum!

very old news, especially to those of us who have been actively doing our own work to ensure our long term health since research into women's health is so not a priority in the medical field for some reason.

here is one recent event on fda that is a pretty good outcome so far, imo...

Congress Asks FDA to Reverse
Its Ban on Estriol
Score one for the home team of women’s health!

“It’s powerfully GOOD news,” said Dr. Northrup when she received word of a Congressional Resolution asking the FDA to rescind its ban on the use of the bio-identical hormone estriol. So, despite popular belief, women who are concerned about their health care and who want to explore all options really can fight city hall. Last January, the FDA announced that estriol could no longer be used in estrogen medications customized for women by compounding pharmacies. Estriol has long been a component of 90 percent or more of these customized preparations prescribed for women by their doctors. In a big win for a woman’s right to choose her best health care options, Congress resolved to protect the doctor-patient relationship from FDA interference.

In our In the News report in April, Dr. Northrup expressed her strong feelings about the FDA’s move to ban estriol. “I don’t want the FDA to ban estriol because once they do this, they’ll start in on other bio-identical hormones as well. Then, when women need hormonal support, all they will be left with are synthetic substitutes that are less effective and also more dangerous! Women deserve the right to the best treatment possible. And that treatment is often based on the wisdom of Mother Nature, not Father Pharmaceutical!”
In fact, it was “Father Pharmaceutical” in the form of Wyeth Pharmaceuticals who initiated the move to have estriol banned by the FDA. Dr. Northrup called the assertion that estriol is not a safe alternative to synthetic hormones, such as Wyeth’s Premarin and Prempro, “completely ridiculous.” Used in Europe and Japan for hormone replacement for many years, estriol has never been associated with adverse events or other health or safety issues. Dr. Northrup stresses the importance of keeping individual health care options open, including the right to choose bio-identical hormones like estriol.

The FDA ban on estriol was met with a noisy round of protests from women, doctors, and pharmacists who saw the federal agency making a misguided bow to pressure from a major pharmaceutical company. A near record number of complaints were filed with the FDA regarding the ban requested by Wyeth. Congress heard the voices of opposition and made a bow of its own to concerned constituents. On May 6, a bipartisan Sense of the Congress Resolution was introduced stating that “the FDA’s new policy restricting women’s access to medications containing estriol does not serve the public interest” and calling for a reversal of the FDA policy.

The resolution concludes that physicians are in the best position to determine which medications are most appropriate for their patients. Congress asked the FDA to respect the physician-patient relationship and reverse a policy that aims to eliminate patients’ access to compounded medications containing estriol that their physicians prescribe for them.

According to Dr. Northrup, estriol is a hormone that is naturally occurring in the female body and reaches its peak production during pregnancy. It’s especially effective when applied topically to the vagina—in that it has a local effect on estrogen-sensitive tissue that is much more robust than the other estrogens. And its systemic absorption from the vagina is minimal. “That makes it a good choice for women who’ve had breast cancer and who should, therefore, keep their estradiol exposure to a minimum,” she says. “I’ve written about estriol for years—and would like to see it studied more thoroughly.”

Dr. Northrup had the highest praise for all those who spoke up for their patient’s rights and the legislators who listened. “I was certainly happy to hear that so many people let their thoughts be known on this issue. Let's hear it for health freedom!”

“We have to thank our legislators for the ‘good sense’ in this ‘Sense of Congress resolution’”!


another recent report on fda:
Congress Asks FDA to Reverse Its Ban on Estriol

That is how it should be, and I congratulate you. Sadly, I think you are atypical.

um... doc... love ya, but have you even read this here thread??? I am amazed and inspired by the women on this board, some speaking up on this thread and some speaking more privately, who have undertaken an incredible amount of research into HRT and their own health. They have reported individual successes in finding the right option for them, and in some cases women have reported that the therapy (whether standard hrt, or bio) literally saved their lives. some have reported that no therapy was needed in their cases - but I wonder about their future health. in any case, the amount of resources and information shared by just the women on this board has shown me and others that we must do the work for ourselves. women must take care of themselves because they have a lot to do to care for others. Margarita is certainly unique in many ways, but far from atypical in her search for the best hrt for her body and health... many many many of us are doing our own work as well. I remain amazed and inspired by you all.

 

[Linda]

I have found that women are much more inclined to question and research matters pertaining to their health than men are

 

[Teresa]

I have found that women are much more inclined to question and research matters pertaining to their health than men are

could not agree more!

 

[Linda]

It was also interesting to me that all of the doctors that I came across who were still prescribing the synthetic hormones but were leery of the bioidenticals admitted that they really had not done any research on the bioidenticals. One doctor even told me that she was so busy with her practice that she didn't have time to do the research. This same doctor had no problem with prescribing Premarin and Prempro

 

[Miss Critter]

I had an older male gyn tell me just last year that if I wanted bioidentical, Premarin was as bioidentical as it gets! Fortunately for women everywhere, he has retired from gynecology and is into Medifast.

 

[Minnie]

It was also interesting to me that all of the doctors that I came across who were still prescribing the synthetic hormones but were leery of the bioidenticals admitted that they really had not done any research on the bioidenticals. One doctor even told me that she was so busy with her practice that she didn't have time to do the research. This same doctor had no problem with prescribing Premarin and Prempro

I think that is the problem with some doctors not recommending them. They don't have the drug rep to push them. They would have to do their own research and they don't have a regulated agency to get that info from and probably due to liability, that makes some nervous.

And as Women are more likely to research in depth issues concerning them, I think female ob/gyns are more open to holistic approaches. I know there are expections to this, but find it to be the case at my doctor's practice.