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6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
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There isn?t a great definition. It is the word that made me cringe most when Palin or McCain used it. Moreso Palin, because I thought she was a true believer. I find it hard to believe that atheists and agnostics can believe there is such a thing as their own greed, as they do not recognize a higher power that would frown upon individuals acting excessively and potentially detrimentally in their own self-interest. The only way I see they could justify not being greedy is the fact that helping out ?society? makes them feel better, so they are still acting in their own self-interest, much like a Christian who behaves based on streets of gold in their afterlife. A&A are free to criticize who they see as greedy, but again, still acting in self-interest as a have-not. Please don?t construe this as a statement that atheists and agnostics are the only ones that are greedy, far from it, but those that do recognize a higher power would recognize the potential consequences down the road, and they should recognize that they are not acting in compliance with their beliefs. Cheering, great verse.

Individuals are always going to pursue their own self-interest, and greed can be political, social, and of course economical. Most focus on the latter, because, as previously mentioned, money is society?s most common report card. Greed is also a commonly pointed to evil of capitalism. There will always be greed in the world, and free market capitalism is the best shown system to manage it. In a free market, transactions are made only when both parties benefit. The ?greedy? CEOs were only compensated in exorbitant sums because they created far more exorbitant returns for their shareholders. No one is holding a gun to the head of those paying the amount. Other forms of government may be more idealistic, but they turn a blind eye to human nature. I heard a great quote the other day that redistribution of wealth is nothing more than institutionalized covetousness. Interesting subject.
 

Geo

Beach Fanatic
Dec 24, 2006
2,740
2,795
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
Why does religion have to creep its way into every conversation?

If I was a Muslim and I interjected Allah into every issue and quoted the Koran wouldn't it seem out of place?
 

6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
Why does religion have to creep its way into every conversation?

If I was a Muslim and I interjected Allah into every issue and quoted the Koran wouldn't it seem out of place?

I wouldn't find it out of place. My faith serves as my moral compass.
 

Miss Critter

Beach Fanatic
Mar 8, 2008
3,397
2,125
My perfect beach
There isn?t a great definition. It is the word that made me cringe most when Palin or McCain used it. Moreso Palin, because I thought she was a true believer. I find it hard to believe that atheists and agnostics can believe there is such a thing as their own greed, as they do not recognize a higher power that would frown upon individuals acting excessively and potentially detrimentally in their own self-interest. The only way I see they could justify not being greedy is the fact that helping out ?society? makes them feel better, so they are still acting in their own self-interest, much like a Christian who behaves based on streets of gold in their afterlife. A&A are free to criticize who they see as greedy, but again, still acting in self-interest as a have-not. Please don?t construe this as a statement that atheists and agnostics are the only ones that are greedy, far from it, but those that do recognize a higher power would recognize the potential consequences down the road, and they should recognize that they are not acting in compliance with their beliefs. Cheering, great verse.

Following your logic, ethical atheists and agnostics would be "superior" to believers in that they do the right thing for no reason other than it's the right thing to do. Believers who behave ethically are doing it only for fear of retribution from a higher power in the afterlife.

Individuals are always going to pursue their own self-interest, and greed can be political, social, and of course economical. Most focus on the latter, because, as previously mentioned, money is society?s most common report card. Greed is also a commonly pointed to evil of capitalism. There will always be greed in the world, and free market capitalism is the best shown system to manage it. In a free market, transactions are made only when both parties benefit. The ?greedy? CEOs were only compensated in exorbitant sums because they created far more exorbitant returns for their shareholders. No one is holding a gun to the head of those paying the amount. Other forms of government may be more idealistic, but they turn a blind eye to human nature. I heard a great quote the other day that redistribution of wealth is nothing more than institutionalized covetousness. Interesting subject.

Really? Give me a few moments and I can put together quite a list of CEO's who ran their companies into bankruptcy or darn close and still made out like bandits. Face it, this is a small group who band together to shield themselves from what should be the repercussions of their actions.
 

rancid

Beach Fanatic
Aug 9, 2006
270
68
I find it hard to believe that atheists and agnostics can believe there is such a thing as their own greed, as they do not recognize a higher power that would frown upon individuals acting excessively and potentially detrimentally in their own self-interest. The only way I see they could justify not being greedy is the fact that helping out ?society? makes them feel better, so they are still acting in their own self-interest, much like a Christian who behaves based on streets of gold in their afterlife.


Very interesting point. I had not thought of greed in the context of religious beliefs. I would say that at least in the case of agnostics, there is a belief in right and wrong , fundamental morals and ethics. These beliefs would encourage behavior to limit greed in whatever context one wants to define greed (much as religion serves the same role to the believer).

Regarding self interest, one could point to a religious person's aversion to greed as nothing more than an act of self interest to get them into heaven.
 

lerxst

Beach Fanatic
Jul 24, 2008
288
101
Why does religion have to creep its way into every conversation?

If I was a Muslim and I interjected Allah into every issue and quoted the Koran wouldn't it seem out of place?

"religion" doesn't creep into every conversation, it usually shows up in areas of morality, personal values etc... this one happens to be "greed" which is more of a condition of the heart which manifests itself in our actions. And if you were a Muslim I would expect your religious values to enter into those types of conversations and would take no offense.
 

6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
Really? Give me a few moments and I can put together quite a list of CEO's who ran their companies into bankruptcy or darn close and still made out like bandits. Face it, this is a small group who band together to shield themselves from what should be the repercussions of their actions.

For your first point, which doesn't show up in the quote above, my point is that people of faith have some basis for what is right and what is wrong. I'll expand on that to rancid, who was following a little better.

For the CEOs, they may have run their company into the ground, but they were not compensated the way they were when they were returning huge returns. There are some golden parachutes out there, but they are one thing necessary to attract and retain talent in this job market.
 

6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
Very interesting point. I had not thought of greed in the context of religious beliefs. I would say that at least in the case of agnostics, there is a belief in right and wrong , fundamental morals and ethics. These beliefs would encourage behavior to limit greed in whatever context one wants to define greed (much as religion serves the same role to the believer).

Regarding self interest, one could point to a religious person's aversion to greed as nothing more than an act of self interest to get them into heaven.

Agree that it is lesser of agnostics than athiests, but agnostics still do not have a defined grounding for right and wrong. What is the source of truth, of right and wrong? You are too smart to use an intellectually lazy answer such as karma (which has a basis in Hindu faith), so don't be tempted.

I completely agree on a religious person's aversion. I mentioned acting for future streets of gold, but it can be further diluted to just making it across the gates. The intent of most faiths, mine included, is acting right for right's sake, not for future reward or fear of punishment. It's not easy to achieve, and isn't supposed to be, but that's the goal.
 

Geo

Beach Fanatic
Dec 24, 2006
2,740
2,795
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
"religion" doesn't creep into every conversation, it usually shows up in areas of morality, personal values etc... this one happens to be "greed" which is more of a condition of the heart which manifests itself in our actions. And if you were a Muslim I would expect your religious values to enter into those types of conversations and would take no offense.

Many will disagree with my view. But I believe that if the conversation is about greed that we should be able to discuss it from more of a secular and academic perspective. Like more of a cultural discussion of societal norms...

I respect that folks use faith as a moral compass but many, irrespective of religious beliefs (or lack thereof) use morals as a moral compass...
 

6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
Many will disagree with my view. But I believe that if the conversation is about greed that we should be able to discuss it from more of a secular and academic perspective. Like more of a cultural discussion of societal norms...

I respect that folks use faith as a moral compass but many, irrespective of religious beliefs (or lack thereof) use morals as a moral compass...

Where do morals come from? No one is stopping you from discussing it from a secular or academic perspective. Hell, I'd encourage it.
 
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