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Miss Kitty

Meow
Jun 10, 2005
47,011
1,131
71
has anyone else heard this (I will see if I can find it to post)...on NPR Wednesday afternoon, a lawyer was discussing the AIG bonus and said that they were not performance bonuses; but, rather, they were rentention bonuses, paid to keep people from leaving the company during a "down" time.

I have not heard this anywhere else, although I have heard them referred to as "rentention bonus". It may be a small point at this stage of the game, but the outrage members of Congress are displaying about "bonuses for poor performance" seems a bit misplaced, if, in fact, AIG was paying these people to stay with a sinking ship with the hope that they would be the ones to right the ship eventually.....that is a bit different from paying them "for a job well done"

the entire fiasco is disturbing.


yes, gw, I have heard this. The average American hears bonus/bailout and jumps to conclusions....many cannot understand retention or any other kind of performance bonus, for that matter. Especially, in this economic climate! There is more to this story...I am not condoning this behavior, but as usual, the media has blown it up without the whole truth, just the buzz words.

I keep thinking about how all these bonuses were just business as usual and when times were good, no one really made a fuss as long as their portfolios were fat and happy. I heard alot about them from Mr. K and the numbers made me do this...:yikes:. There are some great deals in the Hamptons if anyone is interested. ;-)
 

GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,810
1,923
yes, gw, I have heard this. The average American hears bonus/bailout and jumps to conclusions....many cannot understand retention or any other kind of performance bonus, for that matter. Especially, in this economic climate! There is more to this story...I am not condoning this behavior, but as usual, the media has blown it up without the whole truth, just the buzz words.

I keep thinking about how all these bonuses were just business as usual and when times were good, no one really made a fuss as long as their portfolios were fat and happy. I heard alot about them from Mr. K and the numbers made me do this...:yikes:. There are some great deals in the Hamptons if anyone is interested. ;-)

Cuomo Probe Of AIG Yields Bonus Details : NPR. I think this is the link to the show I heard.

just another example of why I like NPR and PBS for the news. I am certainly not condoning it either...but, it infuriates me when the Congress and the media don't get the facts right.
 
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Mango

SoWal Insider
Apr 7, 2006
9,699
1,368
New York/ Santa Rosa Beach
Here's an interesting piece by the NYT's detailing the progression of the hearings on the Hill. Watching the A.I.G. Hearing on the Hill - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com

It's interesting to note that Libby, the Chairman/CEO, came out of retirement for a salary of $1 a year to unwind the three units of AIG responsible for this mess. Bless his heart, because I am betting he wished he had just stayed in the masses bettering his golf game.

"he repeated throughout his testimony, he and others weighed approving the bonuses to keep employees in the risky business areas from fleeing and possibly causing the collapse of a big-book unit valued at $1.6 trillion. If they walked out the door, A.I.G. was at considerable risk of falling apart because the most fragile business unit would have imploded, he said today."

Endurance | 6:34 p.m. Mr. Liddy has shown a lot of patience, or endurance, as one lawmaker just characterized his demeanor after nearly five hours on the grill, and he’s had to explain these retention bonuses over and over again, as one House member after another pokes at the logic of such rewards: Why does an employee or an executive receive a retention bonus only to leave A.I.G. anyway?
Apparently, some of these bonuses were promised at the beginning of 2008 for such “books of business” that had to be wound down (for example the derivatives book is down to $1.6 trillion from $2.7 trillion). As employees working those books succeeded, and completed much of the task at hand, they still were entitled to the bonuses even as they left, Mr. Liddy said. He did not know how many had left, and what amount those employees received.

Go On, Take the Money and Run | 4:59 p.m. Mr. Liddy just predicted that many executives and employees might resign rather quickly, given the political climate and the giant bull’s-eye painted on A.I.G.’s logo. Many employees, he said, might stay a little while longer, return the bonuses but resign.

Bonus Recipients Have Feelings, Too | 2:48 p.m. Bonus recipients do have a conscience, Mr. Liddy offers, after saying a little while ago that most of the employees who were responsible for the risky credit-default swaps are gone. Those who have stayed have already reduced the risky business from $2.7 trillion to $1 trillion. “We have to keep shrinking this business dramatically and quickly so it doesn’t get away from us,” he added.
He has a plan. Wind down the riskiest business, as quickly as possible, then sell off the good insurance business to pay back the taxpayers.
“It’s not a failed company, it’s a failing company unless we do something about it,” Mr. Liddy warned.

About Those Contracts | 1:57 p.m. Correction here, it seems. Mr. Liddy point out to Congressman Frank that the bonuses under attack are not performance-based bonuses, they are only retention bonuses in the financial products group which is the most troubled unit. Therefore, those contracts Mr. Frank released may not apply.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I just took some excerpts, but the full article is worth reading. The political grandstanding alone is laughable.

I do not agree with the largess of the bonuses, given the political/ economic climate--but I do know that knowledgeable employees are crucial to a companies bottom line-- especially in financial services. These employees are essentially salespeople, with a book of business and industry contracts. We all know some people are better salespeople than others. So, AIG doesn't award the retention bonuses, people walk, then where does that leave us since we now own AIG? hiring new people who have to be trained on their systems, who may or may not have the same abilities? I am not sure, but that takes time. Do they hire some new snot nosed Ivy league finance grads looking to make a name for themselves, good or bad?
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
I've also heard it as "retention bonus," though that doesn't have the dramatic punch in the headlines. If Congress wants to biotch about true performance bonus, perhaps they should look at the salary and bonus of the US Postmaster General, who received a substantial performance bonus last year for operating at a rather large loss. -- just another gov't agency running things into the ground and rewarding the people in charge for doing a sh:tty job.
 

Lynnie

SoWal Insider
Apr 18, 2007
8,151
434
SoBuc
has anyone else heard this (I will see if I can find it to post)...on NPR Wednesday afternoon, a lawyer was discussing the AIG bonus and said that they were not performance bonuses; but, rather, they were rentention bonuses, paid to keep people from leaving the company during a "down" time.

I have not heard this anywhere else, although I have heard them referred to as "rentention bonus". It may be a small point at this stage of the game, but the outrage members of Congress are displaying about "bonuses for poor performance" seems a bit misplaced, if, in fact, AIG was paying these people to stay with a sinking ship with the hope that they would be the ones to right the ship eventually.....that is a bit different from paying them "for a job well done"

the entire fiasco is disturbing.


Yes, more irony. These are indeed RETENTION bonuses! Um, because they did such a good job at securing bail out money, the corporation doesn't want to lose these traders?

It will take Americans from every walk of life, political affiliation, etc expressing anger and disdain to stop this. Was our President briefed? I tend to believe that he was briefed on this, but used his psychology to push this through, nonetheless.

Evidently, some of the recipients have given back their bonuses. As far as releasing names - just watch the tax returns coming in - an AIG W-2 should get scrutinized! :cuss: :pissed:

Bailout money = :trainwreck:
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
3,471
59
Right here!
Yes, more irony. These are indeed RETENTION bonuses! Um, because they did such a good job at securing bail out money, the corporation doesn't want to lose these traders?

It will take Americans from every walk of life, political affiliation, etc expressing anger and disdain to stop this. Was our President briefed? I tend to believe that he was briefed on this, but used his psychology to push this through, nonetheless.

Evidently, some of the recipients have given back their bonuses. As far as releasing names - just watch the tax returns coming in - an AIG W-2 should get scrutinized! :cuss: :pissed:


175 billion flushed down the AIG toilet in a bungled receivership and we're "outraged" over a couple hundred million in bonuses from last year. This is misguided at best. We should be "outraged" about a lot of things, these bonuses belong at the bottom of the list.
 

Lynnie

SoWal Insider
Apr 18, 2007
8,151
434
SoBuc
175 billion flushed down the AIG toilet in a bungled receivership and we're "outraged" over a couple hundred million in bonuses from last year. This is misguided at best. We should be "outraged" about a lot of things, these bonuses belong at the bottom of the list.

I think the outrage has been building. Sometimes the catalyst is small in comparison.

The egregious abuse these bonuses reveal should send a strong message to Congress, the President and the American People that the bailouts don't work and have to stop.
 

Minnie

Beach Fanatic
Dec 30, 2006
4,328
829
Memphis
One of the things in all of this that really concerns me is the hatred and out right dangerous hostility toward anyone financially successful. Not everyone that has succeeded financially got there by illegal and abusive gains.

Certainly many did, but just as many got there by hard work.

Several have made very good points that in order to retain some of the brighest workers retention bonus were given to keep them there to help right the wrongs. Was it wrong for them to accept the bonus, truly I am not sure. Maybe it would have been better to stay and refuse the bonus or accept and donate it to a very worthwhile charity. I truly do not know. But the death threats to these people and their families is truly alarming.

I just know that suddenly people are afraid to even be seen in public being what some might considered well off.

My niece got married last weekend in WV and her wedding, was so scaled down that for all practical purposes it did not resemble weddings I am familar with. Did she do this because she really wanted to be frugal or did she do it out of concern from backlash. :dunno: I truly feel her once in a lifetime dream was scaled back to be PC.

I think it is getting close to some people yelling, "off with their heads". :blink:

Fear of being financially successful is not going to improve the stock market and until it comes back we are all going to suffer.
 

BeachSiO2

Beach Fanatic
Jun 16, 2006
3,294
737
One of the things in all of this that really concerns me is the hatred and out right dangerous hostility toward anyone financially successful. Not everyone that has succeeded financially got there by illegal and abusive gains.

But the death threats to these people and their families is truly alarming.

I just know that suddenly people are afraid to even be seen in public being what some might considered well off.

I think it is getting close to some people yelling, "off with their heads". :blink:

Fear of being financially successful is not going to improve the stock market and until it comes back we are all going to suffer.

Sorry for chopping up your post, but I was wondering when the Bastille was going to be reconstructed in place of Trinity Church myself.

There was an interesting story I read on-line about how it's surprising that the U.S. doesn't act like some of our civilized brethren across the pond. In Europe, there are often riots, demonstrations and other violent actions when financial upheaval happens. Maybe we are going to become more European after all. If we do, someone needs to direct me toward some good gelato!!
 
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