The Pope and the Condom

[dgsevier]

Thank you for being such a good person with your humanitarian efforts in Nicaragua. I have never done such a thing and feel inspired. I need to do more as I am able and that's all it takes besides willingness...

But what is your point?

Is this an FYI that some countries support the pope's stance on condoms? Something else?

No disrespect intended...
I'm sure I am not the only one who looks forward to your pics...

G

Geo---
No disrespect taken..

I think my point is threefold.
1. The issue is that the Catholic Church (hereafter referred to as "The Church") is involved in reproductive issues in places other than Africa. The original posts in this thread dealt with relation ship between Africa and The Church.
2. The Church may not entirely have the larger interests of the people, i.e. the body of Christ or the "temporal church", in mind when is creates policy that works to keep people in poverty in favor of creating massive numbers of potential believers.
3. There are some dang sure poor places in the world and it's tough to view their problems through our SoWal eyes. I am terribly guilty of this.

BTW- I would welcome your involvement in our work there. It is Christian based, but not overly so. We're Presbyterian, so we believe in moderation, even when it comes to religion. PM me if you're serious about taking a trip to the mountains. It's beautiful and rewarding.

 

[Lynnie]

Geo---
No disrespect taken..

I think my point is threefold.
1. The issue is that the Catholic Church (hereafter referred to as "The Church") is involved in reproductive issues in places other than Africa. The original posts in this thread dealt with relation ship between Africa and The Church.
2. The Church may not entirely have the larger interests of the people, i.e. the body of Christ or the "temporal church", in mind when is creates policy that works to keep people in poverty in favor of creating massive numbers of potential believers.
3. There are some dang sure poor places in the world and it's tough to view their problems through our SoWal eyes. I am terribly guilty of this.

BTW- I would welcome your involvement in our work there. It is Christian based, but not overly so. We're Presbyterian, so we believe in moderation, even when it comes to religion. PM me if you're serious about taking a trip to the mountains. It's beautiful and rewarding.

Ours does Ecuador - same issues. ;-) Good work!

 

[Miss Kitty]

Thanks to all for the great way this thread has turned out.

Tootsie...your wise words were both educational and uplifting to me!

Geo...keep on trucking.

dg...such good work...I will be waiting for the photos.

 

[Susan Horn]

Geo,

Our family supports a similar but nondenominational, faith-based group that builds basic shelter for deserving families in Mexico -- Constructores Para Christo. PM me if you want more info on that.

 

[scooterbug44]

Geo---
No disrespect taken..

I think my point is threefold.
1. The issue is that the Catholic Church (hereafter referred to as "The Church") is involved in reproductive issues in places other than Africa. The original posts in this thread dealt with relation ship between Africa and The Church.
2. The Church may not entirely have the larger interests of the people, i.e. the body of Christ or the "temporal church", in mind when is creates policy that works to keep people in poverty in favor of creating massive numbers of potential believers.
3. There are some dang sure poor places in the world and it's tough to view their problems through our SoWal eyes. I am terribly guilty of this.

I do not agree with #2.

The Church does a lot of good for many poor people and isn't just to build their numbers. I think you'll find that most of the local churches have taken some liberties w/ the stated Church policies so they can better help their parishioners.

In many places having a lot of kids is a combo of mortality rates and them being your Social Security/retirement plan. That is who will take care of you in your old age.

 

[Susan Horn]

I do not agree with #2.

The Church does a lot of good for many poor people and isn't just to build their numbers. I think you'll find that most of the local churches have taken some liberties w/ the stated Church policies so they can better help their parishioners.

In many places having a lot of kids is a combo of mortality rates and them being your Social Security/retirement plan. That is who will take care of you in your old age.

This reminds me of studies I read about many years ago, and I've seen similar information quoted since (maybe same studies, maybe newer ones, I dunno, I don't seem to file that kind of info in my brain-o-dex, I tend to just remeber the content....)

Anyway, if I remember it right, the studies were testing the hypothesis that in many large-family cultures, one main reason for the large families is uncertain food supply, which causes people to try and increase the odds of being survived by their children by having lots of them and hoping one or two make it to adulthood. In the studies, they used various methods to insure that the families and children were well fed and would be well fed, and were able to believe and trust that they would be well fed over many years. and with no other interventions, birth rates dropped rapidly and dramatically.

I know this is just sort of tangential, but in my mind it's a related consideration.

 

[dgsevier]

I do not agree with #2.

The Church does a lot of good for many poor people and isn't just to build their numbers. I think you'll find that most of the local churches have taken some liberties w/ the stated Church policies so they can better help their parishioners.

That 's the difference between "The Church" and "a church." It can probably be argued that a church that does not fully support the policies and teachings of The Church is not truly a partner in the overall mission.

I stand behind my original statement in #2 and believe that parishes who choose to disobey the official doctrines are more tuned to the needs of those parishioners than is the home office back in Rome (Vatican City).

Based on your response quoted above it sounds as though you would agree.

 

[dgsevier]

the studies were testing the hypothesis that in many large-family cultures, one main reason for the large families is uncertain food supply, which causes people to try and increase the odds of being survived by their children by having lots of them and hoping one or two make it to adulthood. In the studies, they used various methods to insure that the families and children were well fed and would be well fed, and were able to believe and trust that they would be well fed over many years. and with no other interventions, birth rates dropped rapidly and dramatically.

I remember those same studies. I am pretty sure they were funded by the Roman Catholic Church, but I can't say for certain.

 

[scooterbug44]

That 's the difference between "The Church" and "a church." It can probably be argued that a church that does not fully support the policies and teachings of The Church is not truly a partner in the overall mission.

I stand behind my original statement in #2 and believe that parishes who choose to disobey the official doctrines are more tuned to the needs of those parishioners than is the home office back in Rome (Vatican City).

Based on your response quoted above it sounds as though you would agree.

No, I am saying that local needs/requirements and pragmatism are much more of a driving force than the dogma you claim is only intent on increasing recruits. The Church is made up of members quite a bit more with it and creative than you give them credit for.

Think of it more as a form of religious triage than the Church not supporting a mission and vice versa.

 

[dgsevier]

The Church is made up of members quite a bit more with it and creative than you give them credit for.

The members I am referring to were the ones I encountered recently. The vast majority had head lice, impetigo, anal worms, and festering opens sores. A few even had fluke worms growing directly from the tongue. None were literate, and all were undernourished. Each and every patient complained of back pains (kidney related) from not drinking enough water for fear of intestinal parasites.

They were not very "with it", but they were "creative" as you note above. In fact they were so creative they had figured out how to survive two civil wars, scratch out a meal each day, and live without running water or electricity.

Believe it or not, most seemed pretty happy and all of them were brave.