Shrill liberal rhetoric on Health Care from

[Bobby J]

Fair enough. I like the fact that we are discussing this seriously as a country for the first time in 16 years. "The plan" is in constant flux though. It's apparently changing every day, with amendments added and deleted. At least one of the plans have had a high number of Republican amendments added, but I have lost track of which one and it seems impossible to say which will stand and which won't.

That really is my point. It is really hard to have an opinion of something none of really completely understand or have read. But... hard to not appreciate some of it. Like this:

Ends discrimination against people with pre-existing conditions. Over the last three years, 12 million people were denied coverage directly or indirectly through high premiums due to a pre-existing condition. Under the President?s plan, it will be against the law for insurance companies to deny coverage for health reasons or risks.

I find it very easy for me to not like the plan. Then I get reminded, I am healthy, and make a decent living. Not everyone is so fortunate.

 

[Gidget]

That really is my point. It is really hard to have an opinion of something none of really completely understand or have read. But... hard to not appreciate some of it. Like this:

Ends discrimination against people with pre-existing conditions. Over the last three years, 12 million people were denied coverage directly or indirectly through high premiums due to a pre-existing condition. Under the President?s plan, it will be against the law for insurance companies to deny coverage for health reasons or risks.

I find it very easy for me to not like the plan. Then I get reminded, I am healthy, and make a decent living. Not everyone is so fortunate.

AMEN! Your point that you are reminded that you are healthy and make a decent living is absolutely essential for us to think about. I haven't been sick in AGES. I'll be 51 on Halloween and all my vitals are in top shape, despite a terrible family history. BUT BUT BUT I have become afflicted with a frozen shoulder and for months I have put off going to a doctor because I have such a huge deductible. I did pay for some massage therapy and acupuncture but alas, I am still living with an arm that won't budge!! I should be able, I've paid my dues (insurance premiums I have NEVER used, taxes) to march into a doctor's office without concern about paying and find out what is best treatment. Do I need to rest it, exercise it, etc... Imagine the person who has no insurance, has kids to support, works 2 part time jobs and can't make ends meet. Awful.

PLUS, when we did get insurance with the high deductible, I had to answer a LENGTHY interview about past conditions. No, no, no, I don't have this, I've never had that, but what if I had?? I could have been disqualified or perhaps I would have had to pay more.

Sure, we can argue that Obama's plan is wrong and this other plan is better or Obama's is the best etc... but bottom line is WE NEED A CHANGE and we need it soon.

G

 

[AlphaCrab]

Well, in this particular arena--absolutely.

 

[fisher]

But... hard to not appreciate some of it. Like this:

Ends discrimination against people with pre-existing conditions. Over the last three years, 12 million people were denied coverage directly or indirectly through high premiums due to a pre-existing condition. Under the President?s plan, it will be against the law for insurance companies to deny coverage for health reasons or risks.

I

This is a hard one to understand. Sounds nice and simple in theory, but what exactly is Obama saying and is it right or fair?

Consider this--

If someone CHOOSES not to buy insurance for say 10 years, then gets breast cancer. They then go to an insurance company and demand coverage after not paying any premiums for the previous 10 years. Why should the insurance company (or the taxpayers) be required to cover the treatments? Doesn't seem right or fair. If insurance companies are required to take anybody, anytime for coverage, I'm going to drop my coverage until I get really sick then pay very little for the coverage only when I need it. Why would anyone buy insurance until they really need it if the insurance companies must provide cheap insurance regardless of the situation. Seems bassackwards and totally unfair to me.

I also don't understand the comment that people were denied coverage due to "high premiums". Didn't they actually make a simple choice to go without coverage to avoid paying the premiums?

Instead of the Obama plan, why don't we allow insurers to sell policies across state lines to increase the competition. Also, allow or force insurers to provide customized plans to keep costs down. For those that want catastrophic coverage, let them buy cheap catastrophic coverage. For those that want cadillac plans, let them buy the cadillac plan. But, make everyone buy something and give tax credits to those under a certain income level to offset some or all of the coverage they choose.

Then, no one is uninsured, lower income folks get assistance with premiums, and the government stays out of the healthcare business.

 

[Bobby J]

This is a hard one to understand. Sounds nice and simple in theory, but what exactly is Obama saying and is it right or fair?

Consider this--

If someone CHOOSES not to buy insurance for say 10 years, then gets breast cancer. They then go to an insurance company and demand coverage after not paying any premiums for the previous 10 years. Why should the insurance company (or the taxpayers) be required to cover the treatments? Doesn't seem right or fair. If insurance companies are required to take anybody, anytime for coverage, I'm going to drop my coverage until I get really sick then pay very little for the coverage only when I need it. Why would anyone buy insurance until they really need it if the insurance companies must provide cheap insurance regardless of the situation. Seems bassackwards and totally unfair to me.

I also don't understand the comment that people were denied coverage due to "high premiums". Didn't they actually make a simple choice to go without coverage to avoid paying the premiums?

Instead of the Obama plan, why don't we allow insurers to sell policies across state lines to increase the competition. Also, allow or force insurers to provide customized plans to keep costs down. For those that want catastrophic coverage, let them buy cheap catastrophic coverage. For those that want cadillac plans, let them buy the cadillac plan. But, make everyone buy something and give tax credits to those under a certain income level to offset some or all of the coverage they choose.

Then, no one is uninsured, lower income folks get assistance with premiums, and the government stays out of the healthcare business.

Yeah. I have to remind myself it is a business. That is the troubling part for me. I do not like the thought of government intruding in private business but feel this issue is a little more dynamic then just those people who have chose to be without insurance.

Why do you feel health care will be better with the Government out of it? It has not proven to be the case so far. We do not have the best system in the world as many like to proclaim.

 

[ellen]

health care crisis

I am copying and pasting my reply from fisher's more recent thread starter below re: health care reform:

I do not pretend to know all there is to know about the various proposed health care reform bills. However, I do know this: the insurance companies essentially rake in 30% of what is spent on health care in this country, acting as a middlemen. Why is one of the top ten businesses in the USA set up to profit from people being sick or preventing themselves from getting that way?

Although it appears to be much maligned, a single payer option would cut health care costs by that 30%.

My husband and I have been under-employed for three years now as independent contractors, paying high out-of-pocket costs for minimal health care (read: $3000 deductible, so really just to prevent us from going bankrupt should a catastrophic event occur). Year-to-year my premium just went up 27%. I am not overweight, don't smoke, exercise, eat well, and have had no health issues. In the last three years, the premium has more than doubled.

And, without insurance, one typically pays rate-card, not insurance company-negotiated rates. So my root canal and crown just cost me $3500 out-of-pocket since I had no dental insurance. I'm sure the 'reasonable and customary" rate I'd pay through a dental plan would have been less.

We already have a government option in the form of medicare and medicaid, and they seem to work rather well.

I think it is easy to disregard the real and true health care crisis in this country if you have the means to pay on your own or at least have an employer-funded health plan.

With 10% of the workforce unemployed - and the real number is more like 16% or higher - we have many people making tough choices in this country - health insurance or the power bill, etc.

As for myself, I am not asking anyone to pay my insurance for me; I'm only asking that I be given the same "deal" that others have access to.

If that means getting my insurance through Uncle Sam (and saving 30%), then I am fine with that.

I think what we all need is a dose of empathy.

 

[ellen]

This is a hard one to understand. Sounds nice and simple in theory, but what exactly is Obama saying and is it right or fair?

Consider this--

If someone CHOOSES not to buy insurance for say 10 years, then gets breast cancer. They then go to an insurance company and demand coverage after not paying any premiums for the previous 10 years. Why should the insurance company (or the taxpayers) be required to cover the treatments? Doesn't seem right or fair. If insurance companies are required to take anybody, anytime for coverage, I'm going to drop my coverage until I get really sick then pay very little for the coverage only when I need it. Why would anyone buy insurance until they really need it if the insurance companies must provide cheap insurance regardless of the situation. Seems bassackwards and totally unfair to me.

I also don't understand the comment that people were denied coverage due to "high premiums". Didn't they actually make a simple choice to go without coverage to avoid paying the premiums?

Instead of the Obama plan, why don't we allow insurers to sell policies across state lines to increase the competition. Also, allow or force insurers to provide customized plans to keep costs down. For those that want catastrophic coverage, let them buy cheap catastrophic coverage. For those that want cadillac plans, let them buy the cadillac plan. But, make everyone buy something and give tax credits to those under a certain income level to offset some or all of the coverage they choose.

Then, no one is uninsured, lower income folks get assistance with premiums, and the government stays out of the healthcare business.

Wow. I'd say that is a poor example. Gosh, if she'd only known that she would be the one of eight women who got breast cancer, maybe she would have chosen to buy health insurance over food for her family or gas to get to work. Her chances of having her power cut off if she didn't pay the bill were 100%.

Perhaps those with this POV should come down from their ivory towers and take a look around at how difficult making ends meet has become for so many.

 

[GoodWitch58]

Ellen. It is nice to see some civil posting.
I believe that some empathy along with a heavy dose of civility would go a long way to improving all of our health these days. I welcome your contributions to the board.

 

[GoodWitch58]

AMEN! Your point that you are reminded that you are healthy and make a decent living is absolutely essential for us to think about. I haven't been sick in AGES. I'll be 51 on Halloween and all my vitals are in top shape, despite a terrible family history. BUT BUT BUT I have become afflicted with a frozen shoulder and for months I have put off going to a doctor because I have such a huge deductible. I did pay for some massage therapy and acupuncture but alas, I am still living with an arm that won't budge!! I should be able, I've paid my dues (insurance premiums I have NEVER used, taxes) to march into a doctor's office without concern about paying and find out what is best treatment. Do I need to rest it, exercise it, etc... Imagine the person who has no insurance, has kids to support, works 2 part time jobs and can't make ends meet. Awful.

PLUS, when we did get insurance with the high deductible, I had to answer a LENGTHY interview about past conditions. No, no, no, I don't have this, I've never had that, but what if I had?? I could have been disqualified or perhaps I would have had to pay more.

Sure, we can argue that Obama's plan is wrong and this other plan is better or Obama's is the best etc... but bottom line is WE NEED A CHANGE and we need it soon.

G

And you know what will be really horrible, if GodForbid, you forgot that you had had some minor illness 'way back when...if that is discovered, then you very well could be denied certain coverage.

It is a disgrace the way the insurance companies behave in this country. Does anyone really believe they are spending millions of dollars trying to kill any kind of reform, just because...

No, they are spending millions to make sure they can continue to rake in BILLIONS of dollars of profit off sick Americans.

 

[Bobby J]

This is what the problem of health care reform is going to be:

Insurance=Government

Talk about big business and lots of money exchanging hands. I am not sure if allowing insurance companies to openly compete acrcoss state lines will be the fix we need because at this point the system seems far to corrupt to not have some sort of over sight.

Still, I am not sold on the government being the one to lead us out of it since they are the ones that have contributed to the mess. Again, hard to get behind something I have never read. It looks good in quotes so far but I have concerns it will be big government in bed with big insurance and once again the American takes it on the chin!

Government=Insurance