How to reduce healthcare costs 101--

[Winnie]

Maybe somebody breastfeeding in public is something you become accustomed to.

On an intellectual level, it seems perfectly natural and certainly correct. But, I once worked in an office where a co-worker merely used a breast pump at lunch. That sound...egh. I'm ashamed to say I had to start taking my lunch to a nearby park. I can't really stomach anyone speaking with their mouth full either - particularly over the telephone, so I'm sure it's just my problem. Perhaps if it had always been socially more common when I was growing up, I wouldn't have this aversion.

 

[scooterbug44]

IMO it's one of those things that has varying degrees of okayness based on location and circumstances. American society has made women's breasts overly sexual/private things that are supposed to be covered in public - so that affects how breastfeeding is viewed.

My level of comfort w/ it varies based on the circumstances - doing it around friends or family member is obviously okay, it's the very public and not technically necessary breastfeeding (esp. when you know it makes others uncomfortable) that I rail against.

My cousin breastfeeding in the living room - no problems with that whatsoever.

Lady a couple feet away in the plane on a long flight - no issues.

Stranger whipping out her boob to feed a 4-6 year old in an adult restaurant when I am trying to have dinner at the next table - no pucking way!

 

[Susan Horn]

IMO it's one of those things that has varying degrees of okayness based on location and circumstances. American society has made women's breasts overly sexual/private things that are supposed to be covered in public - so that affects how breastfeeding is viewed.

My level of comfort w/ it varies based on the circumstances - doing it around friends or family member is obviously okay, it's the very public and not technically necessary breastfeeding (esp. when you know it makes others uncomfortable) that I rail against.

My cousin breastfeeding in the living room - no problems with that whatsoever.

Lady a couple feet away in the plane on a long flight - no issues.

Stranger whipping out her boob to feed a 4-6 year old in an adult restaurant when I am trying to have dinner at the next table - no pucking way!

So it's okay for you and most other folks to eat in public, but not okay for an innocent, breast-fed baby who eats mostly or all breast milk? Did you know that human mother's milk is so perfectly formulated and easily digested that breast babies need to eat at least every couple of hours, sometimes more often, and all the experts recommend feeding breast babies on demand? Sometimes nursing mothers and their babies are dining out or traveling with groups and cannot dictate when and where meals will be ordered, served and eaten. I say babies' needs come first.

I do believe our culture has perverted our understanding of what breasts are supposed to do. Their main purpose is feeding babies, not titillating men and boys, being augmented with silicon, pushed up with rib-bruising wires, or displayed with revealing fashions. Those are all fine and dandy, but to demonize a nursing mother for doing what is natural? Not fine. I wonder if there are any likenesses of great master paintings of women nursing babies in any fancy resturants where public nursing is discouraged, LOL!

Addition after initial posting: Scooterbug, I just realized I mistakenly thought you had written 4-6 month, not 4-6-year-old. There may be some age when it would be more appropriate to keep the nursings private. I confess to having confused feelings about extended nursing past age 2 or so (I was never able to last longer than 15 months with my babies before weaning, but it was just because I was worn out with it). Perhaps I need an attitude adjustment as much as the rest of America, to be more accepting of those who choose to continue nursing much longer than most. I gather that nursing till 4-5-6 years old is quite common in many European countries that are regarded as quite civilized....wonder how they handle it in those places, the public/private thing. I nkiow they don't make as big a fuss about adult nudity in the European countries I've visited, maybe they don't make as big a fuss about public nursing either.....

 

[scooterbug44]

I can't really speak to the nursing customs of any of the European countries I have visited - as the only women I have ever seen nursing publicly were beggers trying to garner more sympathy or distract male tourists so their conspirators could pick their pockets.

Also believe it is traditionally rare for a nursing baby to be shown in art - but mainly because the people who would be painted were either religious babies (Jesus or John the Baptist w/ Mary) or wealthy women who didn't nurse their own children in life, let alone in art.

I believe public nursing isn't done more because they want the baby to be protected from the dirtiness and germs of public places than because it is a cultural no-no. Many places have a tradition where the mother/baby don't go out or entertain for a set time after the birth to allow time to recover and bond and to protect the baby from germs/contaminants.

Not saying that breastfeeding isn't a good thing for a baby or something that shouldn't be encouraged, just that there should be some limitations and manners involved - same as with everything else.

 

[30ashopper]

So it's okay for you and most other folks to eat in public, but not okay for an innocent, breast-fed baby who eats mostly or all breast milk? Did you know that human mother's milk is so perfectly formulated and easily digested that breast babies need to eat at least every couple of hours, sometimes more often, and all the experts recommend feeding breast babies on demand? Sometimes nursing mothers and their babies are dining out or traveling with groups and cannot dictate when and where meals will be ordered, served and eaten. I say babies' needs come first.

I do believe our culture has perverted our understanding of what breasts are supposed to do. Their main purpose is feeding babies, not titillating men and boys, being augmented with silicon, pushed up with rib-bruising wires, or displayed with revealing fashions. Those are all fine and dandy, but to demonize a nursing mother for doing what is natural? Not fine. I wonder if there are any likenesses of great master paintings of women nursing babies in any fancy resturants where public nursing is discouraged, LOL!

First, let me just say - women showing breasts in public legally, that gets my vote. However, since I love to take the other side of such things, I'm curious. First, woman have been breast feeding for centuries, why is there this big push as of late to protect women who feel the need to do this in public vs. whatever it was they used to do when they couldn't? (My guess is they stayed home and fed the baby. Child rearing is not without its sacrifices I guess.) Second, all body parts have a natural purpose, that doesn't necessarily mean you get to pull them out and show them off to the world if such an act goes against community standards, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Kayak Fish]

Uh, women should be able to breastfeed in public. They should probably be subtle to avoid the leers of all the puritans, but on the other hand you don't have to stare at the breasts. Breast feeding is healthy, and the lack of it in our country speaks to the general trend toward selfishness and convenience to the detriment of our health.

Also- formula was pushed on people during World War 2 so that women would quit feeding their babies the natural way and get into the factories. The government essentially claimed breastfeeding to be unsanitary and unhealthy in order to boost production. I'm not saying you're not a good person if you don't breast feed, but it's sad that people can't act like grown-ups and understand that boobs were actually designed to nurse children, not motorboat, etc. I think we need a world where these things can co-exist.

 

[Susan Horn]

First, let me just say - women showing breasts in public legally, that gets my vote. However, since I love to take the other side of such things, I'm curious. First, woman have been breast feeding for centuries, why is there this big push as of late to protect women who feel the need to do this in public vs. whatever it was they used to do when they couldn't? (My guess is they stayed home and fed the baby. Child rearing is not without its sacrifices I guess.) Second, all body parts have a natural purpose, that doesn't necessarily mean you get to pull them out and show them off to the world if such an act goes against community standards, wouldn't you agree?

Can't agree on that one, sorry, because I think in this case the existing community standards are perverse, unnatural, and hypocritical in a nation that makes so much noise about family values.

Staying home is great if you choose to and if you can, but every mother and family's situation is different. Community infrastructure in most parts of USA is not conducive to moms and kids getting their needs met by mom staying home. Some moms work outside home for pay, and for all kinds of other reasons (driving older kids here and there for instance), so they often have to be out in various public settings with their babies at all kinds of times that might not be ideal fo some or all concerned.

I suspect public breastfeeding went on for many centuries and wasn't any big deal, till after Nestle & friends pushed formula addiction on the world and gave breastfeeding a rep of being somehow unclean, nasty, etc. I don't think there's a sudden push about public breastfeeding, just a natural tendency of at least some moms to do what comes natural, and respond with righteous horror and indignation when it is treated as criminal or pornographic.

But if there is (a sudden push), then perhaps it has as much to do with Nestle's very successful anti-mothers'-milk campaign as with the fact that women in general today live more public lives than in the past, because of our/their increased presence in the paid labor force and all other realms that not so long ago were exclusively male domains. Maybe this is all another aspect of adjusting to the changing times vis a vis women's rights.

 

[Susan Horn]

Speaking of women's rights....

...perhaps this is about some double standard we haven't yet discussed? There are some things men do very publicly that I find questionable, and I"m sure I can't possibly be all alone on this -- like adjusting the fronts of their britches all the time, spitting nasty things on the sidewalk, to name the first couple that jump to mind.

How are those behaviors okay if breastfeeding is not? Was a baseball champ ever escorted off the field in disgrace for scratching his you- know -whats ? Did anyone ever arrest a man for hawking a big nasty one on the sidewalk in a park? How is it that nursing women have been arrested for feeding a baby with their God-given equipment?

 

[30ashopper]

...perhaps this is about some double standard we haven't yet discussed? There are some things men do very publicly that I find questionable, and I"m sure I can't possibly be all alone on this -- like adjusting the fronts of their britches all the time, spitting nasty things on the sidewalk, to name the first couple that jump to mind.

How are those behaviors okay if breastfeeding is not? Was a baseball champ ever escorted off the field in disgrace for scratching his you- know -whats ? Did anyone ever arrest a man for hawking a big nasty one on the sidewalk in a park? How is it that nursing women have been arrested for feeding a baby with their God-given equipment?

I'm sure we have laws on the books against spitting on the sidewalk. It seems to come back to community standards again. When I was in school at FSU I was dj at the college radio station - even though the FCC had national rules about what could be heard and what couldn't, we had more strict rules revolving around community standards we had to uphold or risk getting shut down. I think in the case of breast feeding you're dealing more with trying to change public perception than anything else. That's a tough battle to fight and it doesn't change over night.

 

[Susan Horn]

with trying to change public perception than anything else. That's a tough battle to fight and it doesn't change over night.

You are right about that. Especially when huge multinational corporations have a stake in keeping breastfeeding nasty so that formula feeding is seen as preferable, more prestigious, etc. I don't think I can take that one on by my lonesome, but maybe some of my comments here on this thread changed a few hearts and minds in a nursing-friendly direction? I hope.