One More Reason to Pass Health Care Reform

[GoodWitch58]

Where should I start?

I thought you'd have fun with this one....kinda like your daily cross word puzzle.

 

[AndrewG]

If a clear majority of the people don't want it you think it's ok to pass it? I don't.

100 years later and the people still don't want it. Perhaps your of the persuasion that people are too stupid to know what's good for them. That's a path that always leads to much bigger problems regardless of the issue.

The real issues driving healthcare costs up aren't being addressed. Real solutions like tort reform need to be included. Why can't people see the forest through the trees here?

The current Bill is going to water down benefits, increase wait times and still raise the cost by $2,400 per household immediately without benefits kicking in for 5 years. This is absolutely unacceptable, our leaders need to do a better job.

 

[GoodWitch58]

So, AndrewG, what's the source of your information?

 

[AndrewG]

You avoided my question and instead asked me one.

"So, AndrewG, what's the source of your information?"

The internet, the Congressional Budget Office, but most importantly common sense.

What happens when you provide coverage to 40 million people who can't afford it now?

1. The first thing that comes to a mind is a shortage of doctors and nurses.

2. More people going to see these fewer doctors will result in longer wait times.

3. When people get something for free they abuse it and go too much even further clogging up the system.

4. The government can only make good on this promise by taking more money from those who have it and/or by cutting existing programs.

5. If you cap what someone can charge, like a doctor, they become a fast food chain where quantity is the only thing that will make money. Quality will suffer and talent will move to where the money can be made.

6. I think there's a misconception that people without health insurance are dying in the US right now. All hospitals are required to treat everyone with or without insurance.

7. More gov't intrusion is going to result in less competition, more beauracracy through greater regulation, less efficiency, corruption and higher costs.

8. I believe that the majority of folks who don't have health insurance are young folks who don't think they need it and choose to save/spend that money. They're probably right. Don't seniors and infants consume like 80% of healthcare benefits?

My source of information is common sense on all of these. If it doesn't make sense there's something wrong. Where in the world did you get the laundry list you copied and pasted?

I just checked out PoliticsDaily.com the website you visited. Are you kidding me? Clearly this is a blinders on, far left leaning one sided site. If you voluntarily expose yourself to nonsense long enough some of it starts to take root.

 

[Here4Good]

You must have missed the last two statements from the CBO. Here's the most recent:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11307/Reid_Letter_HR3590.pdf

Their conclusion:
"CBO and JCT now estimate that, on balance, the direct (mandatory) spending and revenue effects of enacting H.R. 3590 as passed by the Senate would yield a net reduction in federal deficits of $118 billion over the 2010?2019 period. (Direct spending?as distinguished from discretionary spending?is spending that stems from legislation other than appropriation acts.) In our earlier estimate, the budgetary impact was a net reduction in deficits of $132 billion."

And let's leave the leftist/rightist arguments about sources alone for a while. It's been done to death, and it seems to be that the last thing we need to debate (AGAIN) right now is whether a source is left or right. This source is the CBO, which is neither.

I think it's time to stop arguing about what everyone THINKS the healthcare bill is, and force Congress to produce ONE REAL BILL which everyone can evaluate.

 

[GoodWitch58]

Interesting that many people feel comfortable with the bill and the reform package in general once they get past the "sound bites" and actually understand what's in the proposal:

But if you actually tell people what's in the health-care reform bill, then it becomes quite popular. A recent Newsweek poll found the same thing: "The majority of Americans are opposed to President Obama's health-care reform plan — until they learn the details."

You can spin this information in a lot of different directions: The GOP has mounted a huge disinformation campaign. People are stupid. The polls are biased in one direction or another. The media covers conflict and ignores substance. Pick your favorite.

Here's how I understand this information: Voters

Ezra Klein - Is health-care reform popular?

 

[30ashopper]

You must have missed the last two statements from the CBO. Here's the most recent:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11307/Reid_Letter_HR3590.pdf

People can draw thier own conclusions as to what will actually happen.

This is the current senate bill of course, house dems want to amend this through reconciliation so we really have no idea what we'd eventually end up with.

 

[Miss Critter]

Another salient point regarding cost is outlined by Dr. Barry Sears in his book The Anti-Inflammation Zone, chapter titled Avoiding the Coming Collapse of the Health Care System - and that is the growing epidemic of people living for decades with chronic health conditions.

Avoiding the Coming Collapse of the Health Care System

Despite all the advances in modern medicine, we seem powerless to turn back the epidemic of silent inflammation that threatens to destroy our current health care system. In essence, the wellness of Americans is rapidly eroding. Our diets have changed so rapidly that their hormonal consequences are now overwhelming our genes. Because we have ignored the hormonal consequences of our diet, the greatest threat to America is the potential collapse of our health care system?and it looms just ahead. The first signs of that collapse are now appearing, with the rapid increases in health care insurance and the growing number of people who can't pay for it.

The number-one chronic disease that will accelerate this collapse is the growing epidemic of type 2 diabetes. This is the most expensive of all diseases, because patients often become severely debilitated, though they can live for years with this debilitation. It is the number-one cause of blindness, the primary cause of amputation, a major trigger of heart disease, and a common cause of kidney failure. It costs more than $200,000 per year to keep a single kidney dialysis patient alive. Overall, this condition now costs our country $132 billion a year.

Currently, about 7 percent of adult Americans have type 2 diabetes, and I estimate once that figure reaches 10 percent of the adult population, we will be unable to pay for the resulting health care costs, regardless of our economic strength. The only question is how long it will be before we reach that magic 10 percent figure. It might be as early as five years from now, maybe fifteen years at the most. It doesn't matter if we have universal health insurance, private insurance, or no health insurance at all. The American health care system will simply go bankrupt. But whenever that time comes, everyone in America will be asking, What happened? By the time the epidemic of silent inflammation takes its full toll, it will be too late.

Type 2 diabetes will be only the first in a line of many other chronic diseases, such as heart disease, cancer, and Alzheimer's, that will begin to strike at an earlier age and affect an even greater percentage of our population. If type 2 diabetes is not the crushing blow to our health care system, then these other diseases fueled by silent inflammation will soon finish the job.

Paying for health insurance is the new major battleground for American workers and employers. We live in the richest country in the world, and yet more than 40 million people are not insured.

Why is health insurance so expensive? Simply ask the HMOs. Nearly 80 percent of the costs for an average HMO goes to pay for disease conditions strongly associated with silent inflammation. The longer silent inflammation is left untreated, the more damage accumulates. This is why health insurance costs are so rapidly rising, and we are increasingly unable to pay for them. The truth is, employers are already resisting the increased rates by reducing their hiring of new employees.

Although the future looks bleak, we can change it if we immediately begin to take the steps needed to reverse silent inflammation. This will require realistic approaches for individuals, not meaningless political slogans. The steps I discuss below will also address pediatric and adolescent obesity, the fastest-growing segment of our obesity epidemic. It is now estimated that one-third of the children born after 2000 will develop type 2 diabetes at some point in their lives. They will be more likely to develop heart disease, cancer and neurological disorders at a relatively early age. I fear that unless we take these steps, the next generation of Americans may be the first in recorded history whose actual life span is shorter than their parents.

That's the bad news. If we do nothing, the future is clear. It's bleak, very bleak. Therefore, we might ask: What are insurance companies, corporations, and the government doing about this impeding collapse of our health care system?

INSURANCE COMPANIES

Insurance companies should be at the forefront of the battle against silent inflammation, since they ultimately pay for its consequences. That makes sense until you realize that insurance companies are simply bookies. As long as they get their spread, they are willing to take your money. Here is where health insurance is really a sucker's bet. In essence, you give money to the insurance company fearing that you will get sick. They take your money betting that you won't get sick. Like any good bookie, they simply figure the odds so no matter what the outcome, they make a profit. They have no real interest in promoting the reduction of silent inflammation, since you will keep paying for the health insurance regardless of the cost. If the population gets sicker, they simply raise rates to cover the increased cost. If you can't pay for the increased premiums, it's your problem.

 

[Lynnie]

Another salient point regarding cost is outlined by Dr. Barry Sears in his book The Anti-Inflammation Zone, chapter titled Avoiding the Coming Collapse of the Health Care System - and that is the growing epidemic of people living for decades with chronic health conditions.

I still would like to see demographics and statistics on those with chronic illness who further abuse their bodies. Also, I'd like to see numbers on those who do not have medical insurance due to choice of lifestyle - i.e. buying illegal drugs, beer, liquor, etc. I am not saying that this happens in every instance, but I haven't heard one politician address these even more expensive issues. Any ideas other than the soundbite of 'education?' If someone is a diabetic (Type I or II), do we provide coverage at tax payer expense if they smoke and drink alcohol on a regular basis? If a healthy person/family chooses drugs and cable TV over buying medical coverage, do we, at tax payer expense, cover these individuals?

Not one politician (that I am aware) has addressed these issues and how we will deal with this when we are providing the much needed medical care for all Americans. We don't want to say "no" to anyone, but we will have to.

 

[scooterbug44]

I would love to see those numbers/demographics too - mainly to refute the "picture" many people have in their heads of what people who do not have or cannot get health insurance look like.

There seems to be a perception that the majority of Americans with health insurance issues are: illegal aliens, minorities, deadbeats, freeloaders, unhealthy, fat slobs, spending the money on other things, don't care about their health, want totally free medical care etc.

Someone posted a great analysis of the divide - those w/ jobs that provide insurance, are vets, or are on Medicare think there is nothing wrong with the current system - while those who are self employed, employed by small businesses, or unable to afford or get insurance have a VERY different view.

My concern is that between the aging population (driving up both health care costs AND the amount our government spends) , the rising cost of health insurance, and the economy, more and more people are going to find themselves in the second group, not the first....................as the problem gets worse and worse instead of better.