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mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,395
1,814
I 100% disagree. Not everyone deserves respect, some actually deserve disrespect. I 100% agree we should treat everyone as we would like to be treated but what happens when that is not reciprocated? Your comments on love are silly at best.
As long as anyone does not threaten you then you should treat them with respect. Why would you not? Charlie Kirk had a mission and that mission did not always respect another person's opinion. He sometimes labeled people that did not deserve it. I do give him credit for having a mission and a message that young people often connected to but not always. It is how he handled the not always that bothers me because it usually was when he was challenged. I see that as a weakness which I am guilty of as well. I do not know him but I hope he like me was learning to be better at conflict. He did chose the mission so he should take his losses like a man right?
 

Lou Deman

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2017
1,688
304
52
South Walton
As long as anyone does not threaten you then you should treat them with respect. Why would you not? Charlie Kirk had a mission and that mission did not always respect another person's opinion. He sometimes labeled people that did not deserve it. I do give him credit for having a mission and a message that young people often connected to but not always. It is how he handled the not always that bothers me because it usually was when he was challenged. I see that as a weakness which I am guilty of as well. I do not know him but I hope he like me was learning to be better at conflict. He did chose the mission so he should take his losses like a man right?
Lets go with an example. Sunday I was coming through the pass (back from fishing) a bunch of guys were trying to run over dolphins with their boat. I went over and told them what I thought of what they were doing. Should they be shown respect? They didn't threaten me but I will never respect anyone in that boat, maybe its me.
The real question is do you think Kirk's mission to disrespect? Or did he return the energy he was given? I never saw him attach anyone without provocation.
It is neat to look at his early stuff compared to near his end. As would be expected his time in the trenches built confidence and he gave more lateral for people he didn't agree with. Like me he mellowed with age. I loved the way he handle 95% of his interactions, its OK for people to disagree. I still don't see what he did as wins and losses, I think the only losses were when a conversation couldn't be had due to emotion.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,395
1,814
I don't think you understand Kirk or what he was doing at all. Sure there were times when he was looking for a 'gotcha' moment but when people interacted with civility he came back with civility. When someone came at him with vinegar he replied with vinegar and I absolutely love that.
Never think for one second that I do not respect your comments. I don't agree with most but at least you are willing to share regardless. There is honor in that and which I respect. I am not a social person until I know those I'm socializing with are genuine, we don't have to share the same beliefs but the person needs to have some level of seriousness.
I didn't say nor do I think Kirk or anyone for that matter should have roads, schools, buildings, etc named after them. I think we are all just human and we all have our flaws. There are very very very few people I look up to because of this.
Its funny to hear you combine college with education, theres a lot of idiots with master degrees and successful people that didn't graduate high school. This is another bi-product of the system thinking that college equals education. Traditional education gets extremely tainted by the beliefs of the teachers. The only true way to learn is to go outside or above those running the class, or get out in the real world. I can't remember hearing Kirk say he was an expert in anything, he just gave his beleif and why or what he based those beliefs on.
This is where you annoy the hell out of me, Kirk believed a soul was created at conception, he never stated it as fact. To say a woman decides when life begins is nonsense in my opinion. Any biologist that says life doesn't begin at conception isn't a real biologist. That being said I personally don't care if someone gets an abortion but lets make sure we call murder murder because you are killing that fetus, make no mistake about it. Like I said I could car less what someone outside my circle does.
If Kirk wasn't trying to close the gap then what do you think he was doing? He gave people an open mic to say/ask whatever they wanted and then talked to them about it.
I don't care if you think my views are wrong. Who said truth and respect have anything to do with gender? Men should care more about truth then respect.
Lets say you and I are sitting at a table and there is a pink flower on the table. You state that the flower is black when it is clearly pink. Should I tell you its black? Agreeing with you would be the 'respectful' thing to do. I won't do that I will tell you its pink. I will also lose respect for you because you have shown that you cannot be honest. Is my stance wrong?
We strongly disagree on the purpose of life and loving and respecting all people.
As stated earlier no one is perfect and no one thinks Kirk was, Kirk often stated he falls short.
I think racism is a crutch and total nonsense but thats another topic.
Here you go again with the hate stuff. Give me an example of what you mean because it makes no sense to me. What does 'hate wins votes' mean? How does hate make people rich?
I never saw anyone treat Charlie Kirk with uncivil behavior. If I missed it please reference the debate. Not sure what you mean by vinegar so that is silly stuff. These were staged debates not conversation.

We obviously do not agree on the value of education. You get out of education what you put into it. If you are there to party then you only know how to party. I went to college to work in healthcare. I am sorry you did not get value from your college experience. I can still remember the first year of college and I was blown away by the value of information I got but I worked hard. If someone gets a masters degree I doubt they are idiots but I guess you would know better than me because I was surrounded by like minded people who studied very hard.

Charlie Kirk's success did not happen without hard work in his education as well. I admire him for giving the effort. He had to learn from books which means he obviously read a lot. Reading good! I really do not know about his real life education. I can tell you more than you want to know about my real life education and I am sure you could as well. We just do not have anyway of knowing what we know about someone else and real life education so unless you have some metric I don't know about I will take a college education over a real life education. Both is best.

Please tell me how anyone including Charlie Kirk knows where life begins with a soul because that is what his debates were about. When a zygote is formed cell replication begins but no one knows when life begins. You can believe in magic, you can believe in what the bible says about it or you can believe in nonsense but there is no way we will ever know for sure. Neither your opinion or mine means anything. If I were you I would stop being accusatory about women committing murder in abortion issues. It is disrespectful to women who we both owe our lives.

Kirk was not on any mission to close a gap. He was on a mission of political and social ideology. What gap are you talking about anyway. Political division is a gap so maybe that is what you mean.

Why should men care more about truth than respect? What is wrong with caring about them both equally? Your flower example does not respect my color blindness. So yes your stance does not take into account all people including those with color blindness and therefore is wrong.

I am from the South and learned a lot about racism from real life experience. When I was in Junior High School desegregation pitted whites and blacks against each other every day. Been in plenty of fights just defending those who could not defend themselves on both sides. Funny thing happened when we started playing football together. We learned that we had to work together to be successful. It was an amazing education in race relations. I do not know where Charlie Kirk got his education about racism but he was so wrong on institutional racism. Our coach was not racist and he started players who rose to the top with athleticism and work ethic. If only the banking industry, real estate industry, insurance industry etc. worked that way. It does not...

If you do not see how present day politics are using hate and division to keep us from demanding that they work for us and our needs then you are a lost cause. Hate brings in money and power to those who manipulate us with hate rhetoric. I have already listed an example of this and you still don't get it so I don't think I can help you by giving you more examples.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,395
1,814
Lets go with an example. Sunday I was coming through the pass (back from fishing) a bunch of guys were trying to run over dolphins with their boat. I went over and told them what I thought of what they were doing. Should they be shown respect? They didn't threaten me but I will never respect anyone in that boat, maybe its me.
The real question is do you think Kirk's mission to disrespect? Or did he return the energy he was given? I never saw him attach anyone without provocation.
It is neat to look at his early stuff compared to near his end. As would be expected his time in the trenches built confidence and he gave more lateral for people he didn't agree with. Like me he mellowed with age. I loved the way he handle 95% of his interactions, its OK for people to disagree. I still don't see what he did as wins and losses, I think the only losses were when a conversation couldn't be had due to emotion.
In your example I would have agreed with you years ago. Present day I try to look at your example as an opportunity to educate and give them a chance to be educated why what they were doing is very wrong. I get it that it is very hard to respect those guys but I think it is important to at least try giving them a chance to correct their behavior. Maybe what you said did have an impact on them. Maybe when they close their eyes at night they will continue to hear your words :)
 

Lou Deman

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2017
1,688
304
52
South Walton
I never saw anyone treat Charlie Kirk with uncivil behavior. If I missed it please reference the debate. Not sure what you mean by vinegar so that is silly stuff. These were staged debates not conversation.

We obviously do not agree on the value of education. You get out of education what you put into it. If you are there to party then you only know how to party. I went to college to work in healthcare. I am sorry you did not get value from your college experience. I can still remember the first year of college and I was blown away by the value of information I got but I worked hard. If someone gets a masters degree I doubt they are idiots but I guess you would know better than me because I was surrounded by like minded people who studied very hard.

Charlie Kirk's success did not happen without hard work in his education as well. I admire him for giving the effort. He had to learn from books which means he obviously read a lot. Reading good! I really do not know about his real life education. I can tell you more than you want to know about my real life education and I am sure you could as well. We just do not have anyway of knowing what we know about someone else and real life education so unless you have some metric I don't know about I will take a college education over a real life education. Both is best.

Please tell me how anyone including Charlie Kirk knows where life begins with a soul because that is what his debates were about. When a zygote is formed cell replication begins but no one knows when life begins. You can believe in magic, you can believe in what the bible says about it or you can believe in nonsense but there is no way we will ever know for sure. Neither your opinion or mine means anything. If I were you I would stop being accusatory about women committing murder in abortion issues. It is disrespectful to women who we both owe our lives.

Kirk was not on any mission to close a gap. He was on a mission of political and social ideology. What gap are you talking about anyway. Political division is a gap so maybe that is what you mean.

Why should men care more about truth than respect? What is wrong with caring about them both equally? Your flower example does not respect my color blindness. So yes your stance does not take into account all people including those with color blindness and therefore is wrong.

I am from the South and learned a lot about racism from real life experience. When I was in Junior High School desegregation pitted whites and blacks against each other every day. Been in plenty of fights just defending those who could not defend themselves on both sides. Funny thing happened when we started playing football together. We learned that we had to work together to be successful. It was an amazing education in race relations. I do not know where Charlie Kirk got his education about racism but he was so wrong on institutional racism. Our coach was not racist and he started players who rose to the top with athleticism and work ethic. If only the banking industry, real estate industry, insurance industry etc. worked that way. It does not...

If you do not see how present day politics are using hate and division to keep us from demanding that they work for us and our needs then you are a lost cause. Hate brings in money and power to those who manipulate us with hate rhetoric. I have already listed an example of this and you still don't get it so I don't think I can help you by giving you more examples.
You use so many words to say so little
Pointed education has a lot of value, general education is borderline worthless.
Only an idiot would assume what someone else got out of their education. I was blessed to get paid to go to school because I was good at sports. The greatest lesson I learned is how full of poop most of my professors were. Nothing like taking a coarse on investing less then 10 miles from wall street by a guy not investing on wall street. Very educational to take a business coarse from someone that didn't own or run a business. I'll bet they were both democrats (that was a joke). Like I said there's a lot of college educated people making coffee everyday. Leftist always value education over real world experience thats why they are leftist. I've built homes for 3 billionaires so far and only 1 had graduated college.
We agree reading is good.
I am currently writing my first book (kind of). Way tougher then I thought it would be, it might be me.
Your stance about ones soul is beyond odd. First you have to believe in people having souls to even start to have a discussion about when a soul is created. Do you believe that people have souls? Do most people believe souls exist? You try to jump between science and religion to prove some kind of a point but thats not how it works. Any actual biologist would tell you life begins at conception, if you studied healthcare in college you know this as fact. If the ideological side of someone wants to state something else then you are someone with an agenda to push, nothing more nothing less. Personally my opinion means everything to me. Calling an abortion murder is not accusatory it is fact, I already stated that I don't care whether or not someone kills a fetus but lets be adults and call it what it is. What else would you call it when someone intentionally kills a life? Calling truth disrespectful is an odd stance to take.
I beleive Kirk was out to close the gaps between people. Most of the time it was politics sometimes it was faith, other times it was hope to deal with people, I thought you watched a lot of his videos.
Your made up colorblindness is nonsense. If you can't see color you wouldn't argue about the color of something, FFS lets get it together.
Believe me I can tell your from the south but I didn't know you were that old. If you played sports with some brothers then you know there is no difference between white and black. I played a lot of ball with people from all over the world and the only thing that mattered was ball. Color never factored in. I miss those days and I love talking to all my brothers of all different colors. Is there any expiration date on the race card? Some people act like slavery was/is solely a black or American issue when if fact it has happened to every race since the beginning of mankind.
If possible copy and paste your hate example I must have missed it because I have no idea what you are talking about.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,395
1,814
You use so many words to say so little
Pointed education has a lot of value, general education is borderline worthless.
Only an idiot would assume what someone else got out of their education. I was blessed to get paid to go to school because I was good at sports. The greatest lesson I learned is how full of poop most of my professors were. Nothing like taking a coarse on investing less then 10 miles from wall street by a guy not investing on wall street. Very educational to take a business coarse from someone that didn't own or run a business. I'll bet they were both democrats (that was a joke). Like I said there's a lot of college educated people making coffee everyday. Leftist always value education over real world experience thats why they are leftist. I've built homes for 3 billionaires so far and only 1 had graduated college.
We agree reading is good.
I am currently writing my first book (kind of). Way tougher then I thought it would be, it might be me.
Your stance about ones soul is beyond odd. First you have to believe in people having souls to even start to have a discussion about when a soul is created. Do you believe that people have souls? Do most people believe souls exist? You try to jump between science and religion to prove some kind of a point but thats not how it works. Any actual biologist would tell you life begins at conception, if you studied healthcare in college you know this as fact. If the ideological side of someone wants to state something else then you are someone with an agenda to push, nothing more nothing less. Personally my opinion means everything to me. Calling an abortion murder is not accusatory it is fact, I already stated that I don't care whether or not someone kills a fetus but lets be adults and call it what it is. What else would you call it when someone intentionally kills a life? Calling truth disrespectful is an odd stance to take.
I beleive Kirk was out to close the gaps between people. Most of the time it was politics sometimes it was faith, other times it was hope to deal with people, I thought you watched a lot of his videos.
Your made up colorblindness is nonsense. If you can't see color you wouldn't argue about the color of something, FFS lets get it together.
Believe me I can tell your from the south but I didn't know you were that old. If you played sports with some brothers then you know there is no difference between white and black. I played a lot of ball with people from all over the world and the only thing that mattered was ball. Color never factored in. I miss those days and I love talking to all my brothers of all different colors. Is there any expiration date on the race card? Some people act like slavery was/is solely a black or American issue when if fact it has happened to every race since the beginning of mankind.
If possible copy and paste your hate example I must have missed it because I have no idea what you are talking about.
I do not think you read or comprehend my words. Instead of disrespecting you (like you are programmed to do) I will take responsibility for that. I will use less words maybe that helps.

Yes I am older than you unless desegregation took place during your Junior High years. That did not take much education to figure out. It just takes reading skills.

Growing up in Rural South makes you tough as nails. I am sure growing up in a City same way unless born with a silver spoon like our present day leadership. Reference Chris Cuomo's podcast. Not sure what your point is. Probable just disrespect but nothing new.

I never met an idiot so not sure what that is all about. I don't know what you learned in college but it sounds like it made you bitter and hateful. I hope Fox News is not part of your education otherwise I completely understand.

Your labeling of the left with hate just proves what you say about college. People are people. Labels are used to dehumanize. Even with a poor education your experience should have taught you this by now yet you double down. Whether you grow up in the South, North, East or West changes nothing about human nature. You are what you are. The hard part for some is to own it.

I would read your book. You have made me the enemy so if you are right it is good to know your enemy better than they know you :)

Your belief in when life begins is important to you and I respect that. My point is that no one has some cosmic or intellectual understanding of what a soul is or what consciousness is. It is debated with no winners and no losers. Therefore I strongly disagree with you calling women murderers when they feel like an abortion is their only option for whatever their reasons. It is a hateful and lazy approach to a complex unknown. I honestly feel bad for you on this subject and your mother. I would respect you more if you would not make the statement that you "do not care" right after you say it "means everything to you". That is a little wishy washy my clothes are still dirty.

Charlie Kirk closed zero gaps. I think he wanted to and thought he was doing something good. I think he gave the effort to do something good. I think if he had lived he would have done something good by continuing to speak out about Israel. I think he may have eventually given up on the current administration just like others are doing as we speak. Try not to misunderstand what I am saying here. He was not an evil person or a bad person and did not deserve getting shot. He absolutely pointed out the weaknesses in the Democratic Party and I hope we all learned something from his debates.

Somehow you missed the point of my response to your example of respect. Everything we do (almost) is a choice with consequences. You can be hungry enough to steal food. I could go on but my point is that you will never have enough information to disrespect another person with 100% accuracy so why not take the Jesus approach?

I agree with you about slavery and that humans have potential to dehumanize another human. Our present administration continues to dehumanize but what is even worse is that there are so many followers of this administration including yourself. I have used that very argument so many times but over the years I have learned how to self reflect on how easy it is to deflect. America and White people are not perfect. Our founders had slaves. Did you know that George Washington had dentures made from human teeth acquired from a slave? I know you know about all the babies born from slaves that had white fathers. Listen we are all imperfect so I am not judging anyone especially our founders but it is okay to question our history on moral grounds of what we got right and what we got wrong. I questioned myself about why I used the above argument about slavery. If we do have a soul we should use it for good and not to justify a bad...

When it comes to hate I can use you as an example by asking you this simple question: When you say "left" what really pops into your head"? Keep your answer to yourself because you have posted enough for me to already know the answer. This is a chance for you to use your soul for self reflection. I know you have one because we all have one. If you post it will be a deflection from the truth so I know this will be a difficult challenge. I do believe Charlie Kirk was in the process of self reflection when his life ended suddenly and he will be missed by so many people including myself...
 
Last edited:

Lou Deman

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2017
1,688
304
52
South Walton
I do not think you read or comprehend my words. Instead of disrespecting you (like you are programmed to do) I will take responsibility for that. I will use less words maybe that helps.

Yes I am older than you unless desegregation took place during your Junior High years. That did not take much education to figure out. It just takes reading skills.

Growing up in Rural South makes you tough as nails. I am sure growing up in a City same way unless born with a silver spoon like our present day leadership. Reference Chris Cuomo's podcast. Not sure what your point is. Probable just disrespect but nothing new.

I never met an idiot so not sure what that is all about. I don't know what you learned in college but it sounds like it made you bitter and hateful. I hope Fox News is not part of your education otherwise I completely understand.

Your labeling of the left with hate just proves what you say about college. People are people. Labels are used to dehumanize. Even with a poor education your experience should have taught you this by now yet you double down. Whether you grow up in the South, North, East or West changes nothing about human nature. You are what you are. The hard part for some is to own it.

I would read your book. You have made me the enemy so if you are right it is good to know your enemy better than they know you :)

Your belief in when life begins is important to you and I respect that. My point is that no one has some cosmic or intellectual understanding of what a soul is or what consciousness is. It is debated with no winners and no losers. Therefore I strongly disagree with you calling women murderers when they feel like an abortion is their only option for whatever their reasons. It is a hateful and lazy approach to a complex unknown. I honestly feel bad for you on this subject and your mother. I would respect you more if you would not make the statement that you "do not care" right after you say it "means everything to you". That is a little wishy washy my clothes are still dirty.

Charlie Kirk closed zero gaps. I think he wanted to and thought he was doing something good. I think he gave the effort to do something good. I think if he had lived he would have done something good by continuing to speak out about Israel. I think he may have eventually given up on the current administration just like others are doing as we speak. Try not to misunderstand what I am saying here. He was not an evil person or a bad person and did not deserve getting shot. He absolutely pointed out the weaknesses in the Democratic Party and I hope we all learned something from his debates.

Somehow you missed the point of my response to your example of respect. Everything we do (almost) is a choice with consequences. You can be hungry enough to steal food. I could go on but my point is that you will never have enough information to disrespect another person with 100% accuracy so why not take the Jesus approach?

I agree with you about slavery and that humans have potential to dehumanize another human. Our present administration continues to dehumanize but what is even worse is that there are so many followers of this administration including yourself. I have used that very argument so many times but over the years I have learned how to self reflect on how easy it is to deflect. America and White people are not perfect. Our founders had slaves. Did you know that George Washington had dentures made from human teeth acquired from a slave? I know you know about all the babies born from slaves that had white fathers. Listen we are all imperfect so I am not judging anyone especially our founders but it is okay to question our history on moral grounds of what we got right and what we got wrong. I questioned myself about why I used the above argument about slavery. If we do have a soul we should use it for good and not to justify a bad...

When it comes to hate I can use you as an example by asking you this simple question: When you say "left" what really pops into your head"? Keep your answer to yourself because you have posted enough for me to already know the answer. This is a chance for you to use your soul for self reflection. I know you have one because we all have one. If you post it will be a deflection from the truth so I know this will be a difficult challenge. I do believe Charlie Kirk was in the process of self reflection when his life ended suddenly and he will be missed by so many people including myself...
Weak men make hard times
 
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