land purchase

Think you can find it again and link it here?

Found it in my history, not sure what I searched for to find it originally. It's a flood water line survey for the entire area, includes some maps and has some photos at the end that were taken after the storm.

http://www.csc.noaa.gov/hes/docs/stormEffects/OPAL_FL_PANHANDLE_WIND_WATER_LINE_SURVEY.pdf

photo number 16....grayton??

Yes. We had a hard time pumping water out of the footing trench. The County did not want us to bring in fill and the builder who sold us the plan and sat as the Town Architect wouldn't respond to our requests for plan modifications. We had to replace the Architect of Record that was the true Licensed Architect for him and hire an independant Florida Engineer. The developer's rep came out drunk at the end of our work day one evening bragging that it was his neighborhood now that his sister-in-law was gone and while me and my crew remained humble we eventually had to call the Walton County Sherriff in order to get him to give us some space. Of course as soon as we called the sherriff he was out of there like he had to go put out a fire. Before he sped away, he told us all the big plans he had to develop housing out there, but it's been 2 years and I don't know if he's started any homes yet. He may not be a licensed builder, but I don't know.


We've had much better experiences building elsewhere and were happy to hand off the job with our customers consent to another builder. I tried to purchase that land from Doodle in 1999 with the intentions to build apartments and was going to scatter the units on the uplands, but that's when Doodle, Pete and I had our meetings over a speaker phone at the small office trailer before Seacrest's Pool was complete.

I'm not a realtor or financial adviser. The only business plan that works for me there would be to buy lots for 60,000. I'd install concrete pier foundations with 2,300 sq. ft. 3 bed and 3 bath homes with bunk rooms and screen porches that some designer's term treehouses with comfortable interior's and bring them to the public at 445,000. I think the demographic who would buy there would take them at that price. I think a developer would have to develop a cluster of about 10 near the pool in a cohesive manner to take some of the mystery out of what the neighborhood intent was in order to pull it together.

Of course I could be very wrong. Only the future will show what will really work. :roll:

hmm, funny, this is not the story that I know.

I know the house very well that you are speaking of. I have a feeling that you are the first original builder of the house. I am not going to stoop to your level and name names such as you. Some people do not get on this board to defend themselves. I don't think coming on this board naming names and names of their company without them here to defend themselves is wrong.

I do know that the original builder that the owner wanted to build his house was not an approved builder for Treetop for very good reasons. I know that he (the builder) was unauthorized, he knew it, and was told several times that he was not to build in there. The owners of the lot knew it as well and were called and sent certified letters and would not respond. BOth the builder and the owners ignored the DRB and BOD of Treetop requests. I really could go on and on and on about the problems with "that house."

I am just trying to make a statement that there are certainly 2 sides to every story.....oh, and yes I have dug a hole 3 feet with no problems. ;-)

I was in the first meeting at Treetops and was given the contractor standards and there was no such thing as an approved buiilders list. I still have the doc's and if you were there you should have them too. It said all someone had to do to build in Treetops was submit a check and sign a form.

I was at the 2nd DRB meeting in the house on the pool at Seacrest Beach that my partners owned and were renting to the DRB and Seacrest too. At that meeting, which was 3 months after we obtained a construction loan and filed our Notice of Commencement, the Treetops DRB began dealing off the bottom of the deck and brought out proposed revisions to the construction approval process. I have those doc's as well that are hand marked "DRAFT COPY" as of the date of the second meeting. The have hand written notes all over them and large portions of the rules that were in place on that day were being crossed out with pen with proposed revisions.

If anyone says that the DRB wasn't changing the rules to suit a business purpose they aren't being genuine. That being said, if you are the developer you have the advantage of "amending the restrictive covenants from time to time as you see fit." Unfortunately for people who buy in these small neighborhoods run by inexperienced boards they will suffer at liberal hands.

When my customer bought in there it was not at my recommendation. It was only later that they came to me and said, "How can we build in here and at least break even?" We did everything the way the rules said and immediately after we filed our NOC the developer's builder friend called my customer and told them that they were going to try and stop us from commencing and that it would be best if he just hired him to build, at a much higher price, the facts show.

I truly feel bad for anyone who was sold a lot in Treetops by a realtor friend. If their realtor is a true advocate they should buy back the lot and bail out their customer or at least kick them some commission. Anyone who has been here active like I have since 1995 saw that equity trap coming from a mile away, and I don't think it's funny when I point these things out and try to advise against these things and people try to malign me and my advice.

I built and sold my 1st home in Rosemary Beach for 450,000, earned 100,000 in the process, and that's what it's rental ability was worth. Everytime you see one of my models go for sale we sell it for what the rental market will bear for other homes like it. I've never built a perfect house, but nobody has in this area. We build and sell homes based on their rental potential and for years gave a money back gauranty. There are few people who put their money where their mouth is like that.

Please give us a little peace and a little space. We're not here to hurt anyone.;-)

:roll: that is all I have to say about your response. In your heart you know what the truth is. I believe the "liberal hands" that "changed the rules" on you knew you well and your building history.

As far as Treetop is concerned. Why would you expect the Realtor to buy back the lot? Each person was able to view, research, and ask questions (if they had any) before they purchased the lot. Unfortunately around the time that Treetop was completed and the County signed off that building could start the Real Estate market started to fall and that was that. It is not just Treetop that it has happened in, but many many subdivisions. Treetop is just one of the many subdivisions where a majority of the lot owners were "flippers" and they got caught with their pants down. (or some owners did);-)

I can give you peace and space.... I just think naming peoples names is wrong if it is done in a negative fashion and they are not here to defend themself. I also like the truth. ;-)

That's exactly what I'm talking about when I said liberal. When you buy property and know the covenants and then someone completely changes them and continues to do so on the fly because they think the end justifies the means, its liberal. So let's say my friends and I buy the controlling majority of a neighborhood next month and with majority control we modify the covenants as we see proper and it hurts someone who is already an owner. It's still not equitable treatment. Just because we can do it doesn't mean it's correct in the eyes of the highest authority.

I've been working with my hands in the field since 1995. We built for lawyers and businesses everyone around here knows. We built for builders Artisan, Wave, Breaux, New Creations, St. Joe, Paul Thrasher, Sunset Beach, Allen Construction, Starbucks, The U.S. Post Office and more than I remember.

My company built the building, porches and interior trim for another builder who needed us at the Southern Accents home in Rosemary Beach. My architectural design for my Rosemary model was chosen by the editor in chief of Southern Living magazine for his personal vacation home, he hired me to build it after reviewing my work and I have the contract to prove it. Most people don't know me when they see me and that's fine. We just like to work.

If anyone was involved with Rosemary Beach at the time of developer turnover they'll remember that as a homeowner 5 times over I had some serious issues that I wanted addressed to protect every other homeowner. Instead LUK went on an attack against me and buried us. To this day we walk with a limp. Most of the issues I warned of came to cost the owners of Rosemary within 2 years.

Just is just. I learned a lot and sacrificed much. I will do it all again, because that's how we are. I'm not here to hurt anyone.

Just curious, AAbsolute, have you ever been fined, had your Contractor's license suspended, and been required to attend further education due to registered complaints against you? More than once? (I know that you are aware that any of that information, with dates, is available via the FL DBPR, by searching for your name or company name.)

BTW, I'm not affiliated with Treetops, in any form or fashion.

Just curious, AAbsolute, have you ever been fined, had your Contractor's license suspended, and been required to attend further education due to registered complaints against you? More than once? (I know that you are aware that any of that information, with dates, is available via the FL DBPR, by searching for your name or company name.)

BTW, I'm not affiliated with Treetops, in any form or fashion.

In my 28 contracts of the period between 2000 and 2001 I had 6 complaints filed against me in 1 week by a group of people who acted together. I did everything in my power to settle their claims individually including: I offered each party who complained to reimburse them the original purchase price of their lot, plus all costs of construction, plus $100,000. I did not want anyone to ever say that they were not financially better off for hiring me. No one accepted my offer.

3 of the parties claims were unfounded. 2 parties claims were heard by the County Board in a quasi-judicial hearing without a finding of probable cause that was promptly appealled by Writ of Certiorari in which the Record of the proceedings was surprisingly damaged by the Board. In the last, the State required me to form a corporation and obtain a new QB license which I complied with.

I had over $5,000,000 worth of business receipts audited and the County determined that 1 bill for $500.00 should have been paid by my firm and 1 bill for $1,600.00 should have been paid by my firm.

The $500.00 bill was for a fireplace that the customer wanted that neither the bank or the customer reimbursed me for.

The $1,600 bill was for trim material ordered at my customers request that was ordered 4 weeks after the last time I was paid on the job.

The law is clear, if a bill for materials or services is not paid for by the customer then the lien law relieves the contractor of responsibility. That's what the Notice to Owner rules are for and they are clear. The State did not find me guilty of the wrongdoing, the Quasi Judicial Board of the County did. The 2 Building contractors that the County had on the Board both argued with me during the hearing on this issue and all they had to do was read the lien law. The State subsequently took back control of those hearings after my appeal.

I'm sorry it ever happened and I don't get up and go to work everyday in this business to do anything but what is valuable.

I appreciate the reply. I was very curious when I was reading the information from the DBPR.

Thanks

I appreciate the reply. I was very curious when I was reading the information from the DBPR.

Thanks for coming out and asking me directly to both Smiling Joe and Inlet Beach Dweller. For a long time I've had people talk but only in anonymity and I truly appreciate you making yourself known.

We haven't missed a day's work since 1997 and it's not always been easy in both this downturn and 2001. I've employed over 300 of the locals and really wish only peace. If you see me and have more questions just ask.

Thanks for coming out and asking me directly to both Smiling Joe and Inlet Beach Dweller. For a long time I've had people talk but only in anonymity and I truly appreciate you making yourself known.

We haven't missed a day's work since 1997 and it's not always been easy in both this downturn and 2001. I've employed over 300 of the locals and really wish only peace. If you see me and have more questions just ask.

I've been getting private messages both positive and negative and want to say to anyone and everyone who wants answers:
My name is John Carroll. My company is Chambers Street Builders, Inc. I live in Watercolor. I drive an ugly old Dodge truck. I have 4 kids. I build and design homes. I started in construction as a tile man's helper in 1987. I have worked in construction since then learning the trades working for contractors as a laborer. I lived through a big recession in the New York metro area in the late 80's and early 90's when my first daughter was born. Times were hard and I had to work at anything I could. I quit drinking when I was 19, but am still nothing to look at. It was hard to keep the same job in construction for very long as the economy was bad so I labored in drywall, hardwood floors, concrete, roofing, siding, framing and more.

Working amongst the lowest end of the totum pole I learned Spanish and Portugese and a work ethic from people who are not typical. I've always been grateful for any work I've been afforded. I built my first home in 1995. We've done about 17 million in sales so far. As a contractor here my pricing has made me unpopular with my peers. I never tried to hurt anyone, I only wanted to work.

It's true that when I had my trouble in Rosemary I was fired from about 6 jobs and the sherriff came to my house it seemed like every other night. I had a guy and his family file a restraining order against me several times that were denied, but eventually he was granted a protection order. I never touched him and wouldn't. I don't know why he kept after me. To this day, when I file a Notice of Commencement on a new house, he searches it on the Official Records and will call the people to get them to fire me. He has camped out in front of jobs on a weekend so he could meet my customers to try to get them to fire me.

I was on the front page of the Walton Sun at least 3 times during the time I was in a legal battle against LUK. I was also charged with stealing water, taken to jail and at trial found not guilty. At about he same time they had me charged with grand theft, 6 sherriff cars came to my house at 1:30 a.m. and again I was taken to jail. Before trial the State dismissed those charges completely. LUK filed a lis pendens against 1 of my properties and wound up paying me double to settle, but only after they impuned my credibility. I've had people claim a house was built to low to stop me from building and after review I've been cleared to continue. I've had people claim a house was built to high to stop me from building and after review I've been cleared to continue. People have called my banks to break my relationships, suppliers and the few subs we use.

I am not here to hurt anyone, and I wish for space and peace. I never think about what other's are doing. I'm concentrating on my own affairs. This message is intended only for the few people who care. For the rest, I'm sorry to have taken your time. If you see me and want to ask me anything else I'll talk with you.

pricing

It's good to see a local builder tell the truth about building costs. Thanks AAbsolute.

It's good to see a local builder tell the truth about building costs. Thanks AAbsolute.

Careful Pirate.

Careful Pirate.

You're right. I have never seen another builder post prices here. I have only seen guesses that were higher than I have seen actual construction completed for. I should have said thanks for telling us the costs and not inferred anything else. Thanks again.

I drove through Treetop subdivision yesterday and saw 2 very attractive houses. Both were built up to street level, which is significantly higher than the surrounding elevation of the lots. Overall a very nice looking subdivision, but the elevation of the lots would seem to indicate that there is probably standing water when it rains hard. But that's not uncommon around here. Just my 2 cents.

AAbsolute, you seem like a decent guy. Note: I wish you had put some porches on those 2 three story houses in inlet beach.

I drove through Treetop subdivision yesterday and saw 2 very attractive houses. Both were built up to street level, which is significantly higher than the surrounding elevation of the lots. Overall a very nice looking subdivision, but the elevation of the lots would seem to indicate that there is probably standing water when it rains hard. But that's not uncommon around here. Just my 2 cents.

AAbsolute, you seem like a decent guy. Note: I wish you had put some porches on those 2 three story houses in inlet beach.

And blown the budget?!

AAbsolute, you seem like a decent guy.

...you just fell victim to his forte of being the best con artist on 30a. He gains your trust, makes you beleive he is the victim and the rest of the town is after him. No one else has the problems he has. There is a reason why everyone is after him, and it is not because he is an honest and genuinely nice guy looking out for your best interests.

No one has ever been harmed by having my company finish a house for them. When someone fills a person's head with doubt and they terminate their agreement, that adds years to their job and probably bankrupts them. Meanwhile the hater's sleep fine and put another 'x' in their book. I'm not going anywhere and I don't want any trouble from anyone. Think it all the way through and call me directly if you want to.

...you just fell victim to his forte of being the best con artist on 30a. He gains your trust, makes you beleive he is the victim and the rest of the town is after him. No one else has the problems he has. There is a reason why everyone is after him, and it is not because he is an honest and genuinely nice guy looking out for your best interests.

Stapler, seeing as how AAbsolute has come out and clearly stated who he is, I'd say it is reasonable to expect anyone with negative things to say on a public forum do the same so those reading get the full and fair picture.

Confirm and verify

Hello, I would like to buy land in SoWal and if wondering if anyones has any information on treetop and lakeside at inlet beach.

Dunebug, great to see you're in the market for some sowal property. Do yourself a favor and find a good realtor who knows the good, bad and ugly when it comes to buying real estate. Avoid impulse buying and invest some of your time doing research. If a price sounds to good to be true, it probably is! When time comes to build, take the time to research the contractor and his company on http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/index.html. I would think twice before I would work with people who have a history of problems with the Florida licensing boards. Good luck and happy hunting.

Thank you flyforfun for the encourgagement. That is what I am doing, researching developements. I am not in a hurry to buy, but I do not want to miss a good investment. Currently I live in a Condo on the beach and I want to purchase land with a "No Build out Time" so I can build when I'm good and ready. I thought Treetop would be a good investment because the lot prices are fairly low and I like its close proximity to the beach, Seacrest, Rosemary, Aly's.

Everyone has been very helpful, thank you for your posts.

Dunebug, great to see you're in the market for some sowal property. Do yourself a favor and find a good realtor who knows the good, bad and ugly when it comes to buying real estate. Avoid impulse buying and invest some of your time doing research. If a price sounds to good to be true, it probably is! When time comes to build, take the time to research the contractor and his company on http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/index.html. I would think twice before I would work with people who have a history of problems with the Florida licensing boards. Good luck and happy hunting.

I believe I know who you are and wondered if you checked out the distant past of the builder you chose to build your most recent place. Didn't I hear about a pretty major financial issue with a builder you've recommended to readers on this message board? You can private message me anytime or ask me about it in person if you want.

Stapler, seeing as how AAbsolute has come out and clearly stated who he is, I'd say it is reasonable to expect anyone with negative things to say on a public forum do the same so those reading get the full and fair picture.

Shouldn't anyone who has something to say always be willing to courtesy copy the subject. That's part of being an American citizen. The right to face your accusers. Again, I'm sincerely offering peace and don't mean harm to anyone. You all know where I live, where I work and what I drive.

FEMA shows the entire area as a flood zone, right up to the back of Seacrest. Not sure how anyone could "make a mistake" and buy something like that without knowing.

How about a link to this map?

Not just Treetop, but the main map.

Treefrog, the link to the County GIS is here:
http://maps.geocortex.net/imf-5.1.002/sites/walton/jsp/launch.jsp?popup_blocked=true

However, the link is to the entire map, with all of the overlays. You can save any particular map with overlays and create labels, but you cannot directly link to that frame in particular, as far as I know. It isn't too user-friendly, but with with a bit of tinkering, you should be able to navigate it fairly well, and you will see the overlays in folders to the right of the page. It is a great resource, available to all via the Walton County website (taxpayers).