What is up with Sanctuary at Redfish?

True, you can go that route, which I may prepared to do here shortly. From I what I've heard from a few realtors, the information you get sometimes may be limiting, sometimes slighted, and must be cross referenced and dissected, especially if the development is in a questionable status. But in some possibly most, a decent amount of accurate information may be revealed. In my very limited dealing with condos, I've had to deal with two "managing agents" at highly-regarded, established condos. I left both experiences fairly satisfied, but still with a few unanswered nagging questions. The Sanctuary at Redfish is a whole different ball of wax. I heard some dare and hate to say "rumors" surrounding the place that must be clarified. I don't like rumors,spreading them, or even conflicting things period. Unfortunately, the "rumors" are of the sort that most managing agents or any pro-represenatives of the property are more than likely not or can't disclose. That is all I am going to say. I don't know, have heard, need facts. Not trying to start a fire, just trying to get the real deal on this place, maybe from somebody whose job doesn't depend on the success of the complex.
More on my lending later. I was just a small fish whose largest deals were home, (not condo) mortgages that ranged 200-400k. I was a credit analyst to be exact. Stay in touch.

Did you say you're looking and ready to buy in there?

Did you say you're looking and ready to buy in there?

That is a possibility. Why do you ask Sir?

Smiling Joe, I am starting to get the feeling that you are a realtor, and if not, you must be well attuned to the vagaries and complexeties of local r.e. The unit 2nd floor I saw did not have views to write home about, alright I guess, but far from great. The trees blocked most of the beach view, and a decent portion of the lake view. Now what units (if you don't want to get technical), what floor are you referring to that has great views. I am betting the easterly 3rd floor, where the units start at 700,000+.

Hey, I take that back, went back , and there are some nice views on the 3rd floor. You are right. Now I see what you were seeing. Only problem- the view I saw is attached to a nearly 3,000 sqft two-story behemoth of a monster condo. The design- first floor living area is a doable lofty open feel, not bad, lacking windows/natural light. You get a very conservatively-sized sliding glass door and one window to the the outside commmon walkway-that's it. First floor master-wow-it's like where do we start and where do we end. One very conservatively-sized sliding door and that's it , no windows, nothing else, except for a very long, alley way of a bedroom were you have one hell of a oddly shaped room that may perplex the most talented of any interior designer w/ an unlimited budget. You could actually set up a mini-put-put, or a small bolwing alley. Go up upstairs, view is great, rooms not so great. 8 ft ceilings and one very conservatively-sized sliding glass door in an allley way shotgun room. No windows and no light. Now let me emphasize this part- that's what we are all down here for, a little serotonin inducing rays of light right? That's my take. They got it straight on a few counts. Yes, you are right. The beach vista, from the 3rd floor balcony is all gravy. Unfournately, the best views are usually reserved for the larger sqfts places. In this case, the materials were good quality like the other units. The layout on this one .....uhhhhhh. I think I would have given a little bit more thought to the layout of this unit that is in a complex that has and could have very good possibilites.

Hey, I take that back, went back , and there are some nice views on the 3rd floor. You are right. Now I see what you were seeing. Only problem- the view I saw is attached to a nearly 3,000 sqft two-story behemoth of a monster condo. The design- first floor living area is a doable lofty open feel, not bad, lacking windows/natural light. You get a very conservatively-sized sliding glass door and one window to the the outside commmon walkway-that's it. First floor master-wow-it's like where do we start and where do we end. One very conservatively-sized sliding door and that's it , no windows, nothing else, except for a very long, alley way of a bedroom were you have one hell of a oddly shaped room that may perplex the most talented of any interior designer w/ an unlimited budget. You could actually set up a mini-put-put, or a small bolwing alley. Go up upstairs, view is great, rooms not so great. 8 ft ceilings and one very conservatively-sized sliding glass door in an allley way shotgun room. No windows and no light. Now let me emphasize this part- that's what we are all down here for, a little serotonin inducing rays of light right? That's my take. They got it straight on a few counts. Yes, you are right. The beach vista, from the 3rd floor balcony is all gravy. Unfournately, the best views are usually reserved for the larger sqfts places. In this case, the materials were good quality like the other units. The layout on this one .....uhhhhhh. I think I would have given a little bit more thought to the layout of this unit that is in a complex that has and could have very good possibilites.

Are you looking for a place to live in or a vacation rental.

Either way, if your gut is telling you something is not quite right--and you're not crazy about the price or the layout of this condo...you probably could do better spending your time and money on something more suitable.

That is a possibility. Why do you ask Sir?

I'm looking for the motive. Thanks

Are you looking for a place to live in or a vacation rental.

Either way, if your gut is telling you something is not quite right--and you're not crazy about the price or the layout of this condo...you probably could do better spending your time and money on something more suitable.

That is precisely why I have mentioned more than once that it seems that Jerome is just trying to throw stones at the development. There are valid things which he states about the place, but if you don't like much about it, why the heck would you be considering purchasing a unit there? The only positive comment he has stated is that the views are good from the over-priced, over-sized, ill-planned third floor. Time to move on, Jerome.

No stones for me

That is precisely why I have mentioned more than once that it seems that Jerome is just trying to throw stones at the development. There are valid things which he states about the place, but if you don't like much about it, why the heck would you be considering purchasing a unit there? The only positive comment he has stated is that the views are good from the over-priced, over-sized, ill-planned third floor. Time to move on, Jerome.

I think I am trying to get to facts. I am not throwing stones. Besides, it's illegal and people can get hurt that way. Joe, now I haven't seen all the units yet, so I could really find something suitable there. My "throwing stones" may unfortunately ruffle a few feathers. But through stony blogging and my own research, I am coming closer to the truth. It is obvious I believe the development has potential. I like a number of things about it.
Don't think I would spend this much time simply trying to denigrate a development.
Joe, if you could locate and email condos off of 30A that are well-built, relatively new, w/ waterviews/gulfviews (not pool) in the 230-300 per sqft range, please do. I would be very gracious. I would be happpy to check those out.

Back to throwing stones. Now don't you think that those hapless victims, (or in some cases victimizers), who paid and were approved for those outrageous loans on the units at Redfish, (and throughout this area) should have perhaps asked a few more questions. Now that most of the initial owners at Redfish are suffering tremendous financial loss and the development seems to floundering, do think it may have been in their best interest to "throw a few stones". I guess since my arrival in this area in the beginning of 05' I tossed quite a few stones, wondering what the hell was going on in the local real estate market in the context of a larger economic picture. Destin median income in 05'- that's when everybody was rollin' high- about 50k to 60k. Of course I remember driving way down 393 North, looking at 1400sqft cottages mixed b/tw trailers, off dirt roads priced "right" at 325,00-400,000.

The numbers disturbingly just did not add up. I also predicted an impending deflationary spiral that was going to devastate the area, and more importantly people. Now that has translated and metamorphisized to a national scale in a real and very ugly way. Maybe as an individual or a nation as a whole, if we would have done just a little bit more "stone throwing" we could possibly have at least softened our current recession/depression. Stay in touch.

I guess since my arrival in this area in the beginning of 05' I tossed quite a few stones, wondering what the hell was going on in the local real estate market in the context of a larger economic picture. Destin median income in 05'- that's when everybody was rollin' high- about 50k to 60k. Of course I remember driving way down 393 North, looking at 1400sqft cottages mixed b/tw trailers, off dirt roads priced "right" at 325,00-400,000.

The numbers disturbingly just did not add up. I also predicted an impending deflationary spiral that was going to devastate the area, and more importantly people. Now that has translated and metamorphisized to a national scale in a real and very ugly way. Maybe as an individual or a nation as a whole, if we would have done just a little bit more "stone throwing" we could possibly have at least softened our current recession/depression.

I am a skeptical conservative (especially involving real estate). I was involved in lending(not in FL) and I am still amazed by the corruption and scams that came out of the R.E. implosion here. I had no idea of that when I was lending. We were conservative and legitimate and by the books, way too much for the times. No ninja loans for us, at least two years of w2's w/ good credit, some down, along with a slew of info. And I can't recall any homes that I dealt with that appreciated 100% or even 30% or even 20% annually- this being in 03' to 05'. Home prices didn't mimic the schizophrenia of hyped-up biotech bullletin board stocks. So I guess you can call me a skeptical conservative liberal. Before I came here I was a real estate virgin.

:roll:

Just to stay

Are you looking for a place to live in or a vacation rental.

Either way, if your gut is telling you something is not quite right--and you're not crazy about the price or the layout of this condo...you probably could do better spending your time and money on something more suitable.

No, I am not looking at a place for rental income. Just a place to stay short to long term. Shelly, you are right about spending time on another place. As far as money goes, I have a cap at 400k+, possibly creeping into the 500 range if it really dazzles me. Now that of course limits me on 30A, considering all the features that I would like. It is all about compromise.
Checked out Sanctuary by the Sea. Now that is nice. You can actually walk to the beach and alot of the units have a good gulf view. Nice beach.......wide. It seems like the place was built for longer term stays or full time residents; the smallest units are nearly 2,300 sqft. The architecture, layout and the materials are a cut above redfish, but the unknowns about the health of the place linger. I 've heard 18 out of 87 units have sold. Still the cheapest ones there, which probably don't have any or good views, are still outside my money cap. That may be only for a while though. If those #'s are right, that is a bit of inventory to unload. It is tough to get mortgages on condos nowdays, especially jumbos-jumbos. Know anything anout this place Shelly? Any insight?

No, I am not looking at a place for rental income. Just a place to stay short to long term. Shelly, you are right about spending time on another place. As far as money goes, I have a cap at 400k+, possibly creeping into the 500 range if it really dazzles me. Now that of course limits me on 30A, considering all the features that I would like. It is all about compromise.
Checked out Sanctuary by the Sea. Now that is nice. You can actually walk to the beach and alot of the units have a good gulf view. Nice beach.......wide. It seems like the place was built for longer term stays or full time residents; the smallest units are nearly 2,300 sqft. The architecture, layout and the materials are a cut above redfish, but the unknowns about the health of the place linger. I 've heard 18 out of 87 units have sold. Still the cheapest ones there, which probably don't have any or good views, are still outside my money cap. That may be only for a while though. If those #'s are right, that is a bit of inventory to unload. It is tough to get mortgages on condos nowdays, especially jumbos-jumbos. Know anything anout this place Shelly? Any insight?

No, I have no inside info on that condo. If you find a place that you like, I recommend that you just make an offer.

Personally, I think buying into these ghost condos aren't worth the risk. There are too many stories about condo owners taking on the burden of association fees for dead-beat owners or bank REO properties--maintenance problems, facilities broken/shutting down, no grounds keeping services, no security etc., etc.

We happened to be in the area today and decided to check it out.

First, the parking is a joke. There are about 7 above ground spots and the rest is garage parking which looks like you are going to get maybe 2 spots per unit. Think about that when purchasing a 4 bedroom unit, you'll be carpooling. Also they are not assigned so if Mr. I'm more important that you decides to have 8 friends show up you'll never know unless there is a dashboard pass system. Again I doubt this as it's gated (swooning over the fun of fixing that annually or better) so it's restricted.

Second, the pool areas are nice, but if you really need one of those "cabanas" why are you even leaving your room? Give me the open air cabanas at Alys Beach any day. Also, what's up with the swim up bar? I'm assuming that's what it is, but from the inside it looks like a dugout with nothing in it. Empty developer promises?

Finally, DO NOT BUY ON THE FIRST FLOOR! Look just over the railing in the drainage ponds, those are not overflow grates, they are the exhaust for the parking garage. Nothing like diesel fumes first thing in the morning headed down to the pool area.

Overall, incredibly unimpressed to the point that we didn't need to find the open walk through unit. Also the maintenance dues on this place have got to be through the roof and the assessments over the years will bankrupt you if the unit itself doesn't.

We happened to be in the area today and decided to check it out.

First, the parking is a joke. There are about 7 above ground spots and the rest is garage parking which looks like you are going to get maybe 2 spots per unit. Think about that when purchasing a 4 bedroom unit, you'll be carpooling. Also they are not assigned so if Mr. I'm more important that you decides to have 8 friends show up you'll never know unless there is a dashboard pass system. Again I doubt this as it's gated (swooning over the fun of fixing that annually or better) so it's restricted.

Second, the pool areas are nice, but if you really need one of those "cabanas" why are you even leaving your room? Give me the open air cabanas at Alys Beach any day. Also, what's up with the swim up bar? I'm assuming that's what it is, but from the inside it looks like a dugout with nothing in it. Empty developer promises?

Finally, DO NOT BUY ON THE FIRST FLOOR! Look just over the railing in the drainage ponds, those are not overflow grates, they are the exhaust for the parking garage. Nothing like diesel fumes first thing in the morning headed down to the pool area.

Overall, incredibly unimpressed to the point that we didn't need to find the open walk through unit. Also the maintenance dues on this place have got to be through the roof and the assessments over the years will bankrupt you if the unit itself doesn't.

Now which development are you talking about? Redfish at Sanctuary or Sanctuary by the Sea. There is more than a marginal difference b/tw the developments. Any more impressions/comments if you are talking about Sanctuary by the Sea? I am quite interested.

I think I am trying to get to facts. I am not throwing stones. Besides, it's illegal and people can get hurt that way. Joe, now I haven't seen all the units yet, so I could really find something suitable there. My "throwing stones" may unfortunately ruffle a few feathers. But through stony blogging and my own research, I am coming closer to the truth. It is obvious I believe the development has potential. I like a number of things about it.
Don't think I would spend this much time simply trying to denigrate a development.
Joe, if you could locate and email condos off of 30A that are well-built, relatively new, w/ waterviews/gulfviews (not pool) in the 230-300 per sqft range, please do. I would be very gracious. I would be happpy to check those out.

Back to throwing stones. Now don't you think that those hapless victims, (or in some cases victimizers), who paid and were approved for those outrageous loans on the units at Redfish, (and throughout this area) should have perhaps asked a few more questions. Now that most of the initial owners at Redfish are suffering tremendous financial loss and the development seems to floundering, do think it may have been in their best interest to "throw a few stones". I guess since my arrival in this area in the beginning of 05' I tossed quite a few stones, wondering what the hell was going on in the local real estate market in the context of a larger economic picture. Destin median income in 05'- that's when everybody was rollin' high- about 50k to 60k. Of course I remember driving way down 393 North, looking at 1400sqft cottages mixed b/tw trailers, off dirt roads priced "right" at 325,00-400,000.

The numbers disturbingly just did not add up. I also predicted an impending deflationary spiral that was going to devastate the area, and more importantly people. Now that has translated and metamorphisized to a national scale in a real and very ugly way. Maybe as an individual or a nation as a whole, if we would have done just a little bit more "stone throwing" we could possibly have at least softened our current recession/depression. Stay in touch.

Nothing added up back then. It wasn't only this development. I think all buyers in today's market, are very selective, and doing great research before purchasing, so you don't have much to worry about there.

You mention that there are a number of things you like about the development, but short of the third floor units having good views, you haven't mentioned one. Will you please tell us those other things you like about the development?

My data shows only 14 units in Sanc by the Sea closing, so as Shelly says, there will be some high HOA dues if the developer (owning the majority of the units) wants to bump them up suddenly. If hit with a sudden assessment, ouch!, unless you have ample money. Moving condos in Florida, especially all the ones which were built and sold in 2003-2006, will be a difficult thing to move for some time to come. Lenders don't want to touch them, banks don't want to take them back.

If you want to continue discussing Sanc at Redfish, you really should start a new thread, since this one is titled Sanc at Redfish, a totally different development. It will lessen others' confusion.

That is a possibility. Why do you ask Sir?

This thread is interesting. I have to ask, why are you currently considering purchasing a hard asset like real estate in the midst of a deflationary downturn?

you're right

My data shows only 14 units in Sanc by the Sea closing, so as Shelly says, there will be some high HOA dues if the developer (owning the majority of the units) wants to bump them up suddenly. If hit with a sudden assessment, ouch!, unless you have ample money. Moving condos in Florida, especially all the ones which were built and sold in 2003-2006, will be a difficult thing to move for some time to come. Lenders don't want to touch them, banks don't want to take them back.

If you want to continue discussing Sanc at Redfish, you really should start a new thread, since this one is titled Sanc at Redfish, a totally different development. It will lessen others' confusion.

I was thinking about that and I believe I will start a new thread.

Pricing and timing

This thread is interesting. I have to ask, why are you currently considering purchasing a hard asset like real estate in the midst of a deflationary downturn?

Well, I know these are scary times and fearful times. I am sure you heard the old motto " be greedy when others are fearful and be fearful when others are greedy". If you find pretty much what you want, (especially if there is one to two houses/ units, not 10 or 20 options) at prices quite a bit below construction costs, where you want, you must question yourself as far as timing in this deflationary spiral. Hindsight and bottoms are only certain looking back. Investing is only looking forward. Throw the dice.

Jerome, did you ever go any further with Sanctuary at Redfish?

There are currently 2 units each listed under $400K ... #1103 at $399,900, and #1122 at $397K.

The lowest asking price on the 2nd floor is #2116 at $449,000. All three mentioned so far are 3BR/3.5bath.

That is a possibility. Why do you ask Sir?

If you are I can help. I know the owners.