An Inconvenient Truth

You are absolutely right. I get a little worked up when people argue a topic that they really know nothing about, specially when it is something that will affect all of us. TripleB I apologize.

Revelnit!

I understand how you can get worked up on something you feel so passionate about. I think that is a human condition :roll: and we all are guilty of it!

That said, once again you state "I get a little worked up when people argue a topic they really know nothing about". I think the topic isn't black and white and both camps here are making some interesting contributions to the discussion.

We all know global warming is happening - but is it's root cause the human element exclusively or could it be, as TripleB states, a natural cycle ...OR, I'll throw another idea out here which is what I believe - is it a natural cycle that is being exacerbated or accelerated by the human element?

This has been quite an interesting thread. I feel we all look at this issue from a great deal of fear. That is why all parties are so passsionate about it. Jill, you are probably correct... Which came first the chicken or the egg theory. Either way it is scary to think we could be wiped away. Some like to feel like it is just a cycle and we will be ok, while others like to feel like we need to get involved with a solution.

For me, we are all very wasteful so what does it hurt to clean up our mess a little. Every year I find more trash in the water! I wonder what it is going to be like when my kids, kids paddle out!

TripleB gets an award for 2 reasons- 1) he was brave enough to jump into this discussion and took the time to read and post, and 2) he maintained his sense of humor through it all. While I do not agree with him, his strength is his personality, and after the argument is over, I still like him and he makes me laugh.

Now I wish the people I do agree with would interject a little smile here and there.....

TripleB gets an award for 2 reasons- 1) he was brave enough to jump into this discussion and took the time to read and post, and 2) he maintained his sense of humor through it all. While I do not agree with him, his strength is his personality, and after the argument is over, I still like him and he makes me laugh.

Now I wish the people I do agree with would interject a little smile here and there.....

Not you- you always come across pleasant and happy. But thanks for the smilie anyway!

TripleB gets an award for 2 reasons- 1) he was brave enough to jump into this discussion and took the time to read and post, and 2) he maintained his sense of humor through it all. While I do not agree with him, his strength is his personality, and after the argument is over, I still like him and he makes me laugh.

Now I wish the people I do agree with would interject a little smile here and there.....

Thank you jenay. I have known and loved TripleB for yes, 31 years. He is a dear friend of mine. He is passionate about things he believes in. He is a good person with a good heart. Just because he has liqour bottle for his avatar does not make him a bad person as another poster suggests. Also, look how many posts I have, other poster, and yes, I do have a life. I may not agree with what every poster on this message board says, but I would not personaly attack them. This is an open forum and every person has a right to post how they feel without being called ignorant, un-educated...etc. Just my 2 cents that I felt compelled to add. Like it or not.

Thank you jenay. I have known and loved TripleB for yes, 31 years. He is a dear friend of mine. He is passionate about things he believes in. He is a good person with a good heart. Just because he has liqour bottle for his avatar does not make him a bad person as another poster suggests. Also, look how many posts I have, other poster, and yes, I do have a life. I may not agree with what every poster on this message board says, but I would not personaly attack them. This is an open forum and every person has a right to post how they feel without being called ignorant, un-educated...etc. Just my 2 cents that I felt compelled to add. Like it or not.

Triple B and I will have a global warming debate when y'all are this spring. Unfortunately, he has the advantage- I will be laughing too hard to argue anything!

I like y'all's truth...it is so convenient!!!

Please don't stop discussing and debating...it teaches me something. I could use someone to dumb it down here and there, though.

For the record, I know have a big blue can for recycling and am finding much joy filling it up!

Ok..Ok. People will believe what they want to believe and who they want to believe. If there is global warming I want to be the first to apologize for my part in this event. Please tell me what I can do to stop this vicious cycle the Earth may be entering. I recycle. I have a low flow toilet (sure it may take 4 flushes but who's counting). I even planted a tree last year!!

I also want to apologize for any misspelling that may have teken playce. My edumakation has been sumwhat limited becuz PBS didn't come in to gud on my kin folks tv box and CNN wuzzent around back then.

Gotta go now...the Hee Haw reruns are about to start.

Triple B, you know that your Coors Light doesn't stay cold after you remove it from the cooler due to Global Warming. Better go buy some stock in a coozie company.

We all know global warming is happening - but is it's root cause the human element exclusively or could it be, as TripleB states, a natural cycle ...OR, I'll throw another idea out here which is what I believe - is it a natural cycle that is being exacerbated or accelerated by the human element?

Interesting that you bring this up. This thought is what spawned my reaction in the first place. I recently saw the LA skyline again. If any of you have not seen it, it isn't much to see because of all the smog. You can actually feel a temperature change as you drive into the smog from San Diego. I have noticed this in a lot of the big cities with high amounts of smog. Now granted all the concrete increases a city's temperature, but it is almost like going into a sauna when there is smog. All this smog is man made. I have to look at that and compare it to the big picture. If I can feel a temperature difference (and even see it on my car's temperature gauge) when entering an area of man made green house pollutants, how could it be different on a global scale?
:funn: :roll: I added some smiles to this one.

A fair and balanced analysis of the situation
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4487421.html

That article was timely in regards to this discussion! Thanks for posting Skunkape!

That article was timely in regards to this discussion! Thanks for posting Skunkape!

You got it;always on the lookout for material to prevent forays into 'Redfish Village Beach Access' type throwdowns

You got it;always on the lookout for material to prevent forays into 'Redfish Village Beach Access' type throwdowns

I also read this with interest. I've learned from this thread, in between and maybe because of the
.

A fair and balanced analysis of the situation
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4487421.html

Good article skunkape.

TripleB: I realize that you have seen my view on this subject as alarmist, when actually I am an incredibly grounded and calm person. A passage from skunkape's article summed up my feelings pretty well. It stated, "We honestly don't know that much about the big ice sheets," North says. "We don't have great equations that cover glacial movements. But let's say there's just a 10 percent chance of significant melting in the next century. That would be catastrophic, and it's worth protecting ourselves from that risk."
Granted scientists don't have all the answers, but a lot of the answers they do have reveal a need to be concerned. Here is how I see it: If we go Green and global warming actually isn't partly man made we still win. We have a cleaner environment, cleaner air, and better health. If we don't go Green and global warming actually is caused by man made pollutants then we really, really lose. If we think the war in Iraq is bad just imagine the wars that would take place if a huge percentage of the world is displaced. I don't think that changing some of our habits and purchases is that big of a sacrifice to make just to be on the safe side. You asked in one of your responses what you could do to help stop the man made global warming. Whether this was a cynical question or not, there are simple things that Americans can do to bring about the change. Increase the efficiency of your home. I work with people on this topic daily. It is one of the aspects of my business, and that is why I research these topics in such depth. I definitely don't spend my free time reading scientists papers believe me. I have been amazed how much you can lower a person's electric bill by simply making their home more efficient. This is all just wasted electricity. Imagine if just 1/3 of the American population reduced their electric bill by $20 a month. That would be huge.
Americans can also support the Green technologies that are out there. Buy hybrid vehicles. You end up saving much more money in the long run. If you don't like the look of hybrids, let the car manufacturers know. They want to please us because they want our money. Buy solar panels for your home. It may be expensive at first, but you will be making money in the long run. Imagine that. How nice would it be to get a check from the power company every month for the extra power your home produced. There are programs out there right now that will help you get solar for your home. You can get as much as 1/3 the cost back in grants or tax breaks.
In speaking with Chelco they have informed me that they purchased a landfill from Waste Management. They will introduce green electricity this year to their customers. This electricity is produced from methane emissions from the landfill. The amount of power that they will produce from this program will be tiny compared to their coal productions, but if enough people start purchasing it they will venture down other green avenues. They told me that purchasing the "green" electricity will only cost $2 more a month. Green is going to be a little more expensive at first, but I can live with $2 a month if it helps move away from coal. I have been talking with Chelco about a form of accountability as well. I think it is important for customers to know that they really are getting what they pay for.
Keep planting trees! So many people seem to be cutting down trees to develop their land. I personally think trees are one of the most beautiful aspects of a lot. I applaud you for planting that tree TripleB.:clap_1:

Here is my smile for jdarg. I am glad the thread is back on a productive track, and I also apologize if I helped it stray from that track in any way.

Thank you for the smilie, A Zalace. ;-) BTW- I have always found your delivery to be non-confrontational while direct at the same time. Thank you for presenting your views in such a nice way.

AZ I totally agree with you. Everyone should do their part to help insure a clean enviroment. I'm sorry if I have cast you as one of the "alarmist". It is those that seem to use the Global Warming debate to promote political agendas (both sides) with whom I disagree.

You got it;always on the lookout for material to prevent forays into 'Redfish Village Beach Access' type throwdowns

dr mofo to the rescue! :clap_1: you're a good guy..

Some more insight.....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZSqXUSwHRI&mode=related&search="]YouTube - Al Gore's Penguin Army[/ame]

Some more insight.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZSqXUSwHRI&mode=related&search=

Since we have moved to youtube I figured I would throw one in the mix as well. It is a little long, but worth watching regardless of what camp you are from. Doesn't sound to me like Mr. Gore is too concerned about Democrat, Republican, or running for president anymore. I could be wrong though. [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNUbyzzDAiQ&NR[/nomedia]

"One who hugs trees too long...may get splinters."--Chinese proverb

"You say 'Treehugger'
like its a bad thing",


-God.



I'm waiting to see this pop up on one of those infamous all black billboards around here...

dka

"You say 'Treehugger'
like its a bad thing",


-God.



I'm waiting to see this pop up on one of those infamous all black billboards around here...

dka

Those billboards were funn.

"You say 'Treehugger'
like its a bad thing",


-God.



I'm waiting to see this pop up on one of those infamous all black billboards around here...

dka

Don't blame me! Blame the Chinese dude. I think his name was Kri Ying Wuf

from cnn.com

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Democratic chairman of a House panel examining the government's response to climate change said Tuesday there is evidence that senior Bush administration officials sought repeatedly "to mislead the public by injecting doubt into the science of global warming."

Rep. Henry Waxman, D-California, said he and the top Republican on his oversight committee, Rep. Tom Davis of Virginia, have sought documents from the administration on climate policy, but repeatedly been rebuffed.

"The committee isn't trying to obtain state secrets or documents that could affect our immediate national security," said Waxman, opening the hearing. "We are simply seeking answers to whether the White House's political staff is inappropriately censoring impartial government scientists."

"We know that the White House possesses documents that contain evidence of an attempt by senior administration officials to mislead the public by injecting doubt into the science of global warming and minimize the potential danger," Waxman said.

Administration officials were not scheduled to testify before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. In the past the White House has said it has only sought to inject balance into reports on climate change. Present Bush has acknowledged concerns about global warming, but strongly opposes mandatory caps of greenhouse gas emissions, arguing that approach would be too costly.

Waxman said his committee had not received documents it requested from the White House and other agencies, and that a handful of papers received on the eve of the hearing "add nothing to our inquiry."

Two private advocacy groups, meanwhile, presented to the panel a survey of government climate scientists showing that many of them say they have been subjected to political pressure aimed at downplaying the threat of global warming.


The groups presented a survey that shows two in five of the 279 climate scientists who responded to a questionnaire complained that some of their scientific papers had been edited in a way that changed their meaning. Nearly half of the 279 said in response to another question that at some point they had been told to delete reference to "global warming" or "climate change" from a report.

The questionnaire was sent by the Union of Concerned Scientists, a private advocacy group. The report also was based on "firsthand experiences" described in interviews with the Government Accountability Project, which helps government whistleblowers, lawmakers were told.

At the same time, Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-California, sought to gauge her colleague's sentiment on climate change. She opened a meeting where senators were to express their views on global warming in advance of a broader set of hearings on the issue.

Among those scheduled to make comments were two presidential hopefuls -- Sens. John McCain, R-Arizona, and Barack Obama, D-Illinois. Both lawmakers favor mandatory reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, something opposed by President Bush, who argues such requirements would threaten economic growth.

U.N. climate change report expected soon

The intense interest about climate change comes as some 500 climate scientists gather in Paris this week to put the final touches on a United Nations report on how warming, as a result of a growing concentration of heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere, is likely to affect sea levels.

They agree sea levels will rise, but not on how much. Whatever the report says when it comes out at week's end, it is likely to influence the climate debate in Congress.

At the Waxman hearing, the two advocacy groups said their research -- based on the questionnaires, interviews and documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act -- revealed "evidence of widespread interference in climate science in federal agencies."

The groups report described largely anonymous claims by scientists that their findings at times at been misrepresented, that they had been pressured to change findings and had been restricted on what they were allowed to say publicly.

The survey involved scientists across the government from NASA and the Environmental Protection Agency to the department's of Agriculture, Energy, Commerce, Defense and Interior. In all the government employees more than 2,000 scientists who spend at least some of their time on climate issues, the report said.