Lot of buzz about Freedom of Speech. Have you ever written a letter to the editor to your local newspaper. I did a couple of times and now you can in many places just post online. The interesting thing is they have rules, word count, topic and such. Even Twitter has rules. Some of them you would think are common sense, but no, they have actual written rules. I would bet if you went there and looked at the rules you would say they were pretty sensible. With that said I get a huge kick from folks who are on whatever platform they are on complaining how they or someone they know are being oppressed, that their speech or thoughts or whatever is being infringed upon. The society I live in has become entitled. We believe that whatever comes from us or some other like-minded soul should not be censored, unless they don't agree with you. My society believes that if your opinion doesn't line up with my opinion you are evil and deserving of being bullied and ridiculed. This society we share believes that there is only one right and I am standing on it. I even saw a sign that says vote a certain way because, We might have our faults but the other side is pure evil. Back to where I was going with this. These platforms have rules. The groups I belong to have rules, even those who say we don't have rules. I was banned from a group that had no rules because I was a moderate, didn't lose any sleep. I was not allowed to comment on another group because I would ask questions and post rebuttals to this former politicians stuff. Doesn't make a difference. As for my rules, I have only unfriended 1 person since I have been on any platform and that was because he said he was a racist and I got NO TIME FOR THAT. I may dislike someone for a lot of reasons, but the color of their skin AIN'T EVER GOING TO BE ONE OF THEM. Like I said rules, they have them, we have them. You don't like someone telling you what time to be at work, start your own business and wait for your customer to wonder what time you will show up to do the job they are going to pay you for. Don't like the rules on your social media platforms, start your own and make sure you tell everyone you got no rules.
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Beach FanaticAuthor
Today I read a story about Foxconn. If you don't remember this was a company that got a lot of incentive money from State and Local governments in Wisconsin. Seems they haven't lived up to their obligations. Wisconsin went in and "renegotiated " what they were giving and although the article didn't say it, I am sure what Foxconn was required to do also changed. Bet there was no penalty either. Now they are talking about purchasing the Lordstown Automotive Plant in Lordstown Ohio. I hope that local and State Governments look at the history to ensure they don't pay for something that the other party can't/ won't deliver.
So I was curious about Walton County and the Economic Development Council. How are the taxpayers protected to ensure our money is benefitting our community? Is there an audit? Is there a visit to the facility to do a head count to ensure the number of employees and pay average is being met? It seems to me that between tax deferment and infrastructure being built for them the local taxpayers get hosed when we still have to pay our share and theirs. We are told they bring jobs, are they Walton County residents jobs or folks who live outside of Walton County. We talk about a lack of affordable housing in Walton County and we are a fast growing county, where are these folks going to live? Wonder what the cost of corporate welfare is and if using that money to build truly affordable housing would be a better use? Then I suppose we need to figure out what affordable housing is.
So I was curious about Walton County and the Economic Development Council. How are the taxpayers protected to ensure our money is benefitting our community? Is there an audit? Is there a visit to the facility to do a head count to ensure the number of employees and pay average is being met? It seems to me that between tax deferment and infrastructure being built for them the local taxpayers get hosed when we still have to pay our share and theirs. We are told they bring jobs, are they Walton County residents jobs or folks who live outside of Walton County. We talk about a lack of affordable housing in Walton County and we are a fast growing county, where are these folks going to live? Wonder what the cost of corporate welfare is and if using that money to build truly affordable housing would be a better use? Then I suppose we need to figure out what affordable housing is.
SWGB
On the EDA side of things I feel like we've benefited from it. The only total failure in recent history was Bay county's deal with a company that folded 3 months after they moved to town. Screwed a buddy out of his pension when he left his old job.
Beach Fanatic
Poppaj, what do I say to people who equate this with toppling a statue or destroying property in a legitimate civil rights protest that gets out of hand?There is no difference in the behavior. Violence is violence. Destruction is destruction. We do not need to spin those things into a lesser evil type of thing. There does seem to be a difference in the punishment for the behavior and it is a problem short and simple. We all are very good at justifying our less than ideal behaviors but that is probably a mistake. Society should strive to be fair and equal period. If the ends justify the means then it goes both ways and we have chaos. We have to have standards of behavior that rewards us for being civil and respectful regardless of the cause. The cause is always just in the minds of people who break these rules of behavior...
SoWal Insider
There is no difference in the behavior. Violence is violence. Destruction is destruction. We do not need to spin those things into a lesser evil type of thing. There does seem to be a difference in the punishment for the behavior and it is a problem short and simple. We all are very good at justifying our less than ideal behaviors but that is probably a mistake. Society should strive to be fair and equal period. If the ends justify the means then it goes both ways and we have chaos. We have to have standards of behavior that rewards us for being civil and respectful regardless of the cause. The cause is always just in the minds of people who break these rules of behavior...Disagree bigly! Yes violence is violence and both should not be tolerated, but there is no unequal punishment. That’s a right wing talking point that has been debunked.
Attempting to overthrow the government is not even in the same ballpark as protesting injustice.
Beach Fanatic
Is rioting the same as protesting? Both destroy property. People with power overthrows governments.
SoWal Insider
Is rioting the same as protesting? Both destroy property. People with power overthrows governments.People with power, in fact the highest power, incited the insurrection.
I will repeat so you can read it again and please take your time, violence should not be tolerated, excused, or deemed acceptable.
Take note no one said the violent protestors who destroyed property were just tourists strolling through the streets they owned. Property destruction and looting is wrong.
The perpetrators were arrested and many were convicted and again take note no one said they were political prisoners being unfairly treated like the right wing is portraying those who attacked our Capitol looking to execute the Speaker and Vice President.
If you want to discuss differences just remember the law enforcement presence at the protests compared to little to none at the insurrection.
If you can’t see the difference I can’t help you.
Beach Fanatic
People with power, in fact the highest power, incited the insurrection.
I will repeat so you can read it again and please take your time, violence should not be tolerated, excused, or deemed acceptable.
Take note no one said the violent protestors who destroyed property were just tourists strolling through the streets they owned. Property destruction and looting is wrong.
The perpetrators were arrested and many were convicted and again take note no one said they were political prisoners being unfairly treated like the right wing is portraying those who attacked our Capitol looking to execute the Speaker and Vice President.
If you want to discuss differences just remember the law enforcement presence at the protests compared to little to none at the insurrection.
If you can’t see the difference I can’t help you.
Personally, I found what was reported as happening last year by purported left wing “protestors” in the northwest and the stuff that went down in Atlanta and elsewhere around the same time just as egregious as storming the capitol building. Or certainly no less so. The Government’s “private property” isn’t more sacrosanct than my own or someone else’s is to me.
SoWal Insider
Personally, I found what was reported as happening last year by purported left wing “protestors” in the northwest and the stuff that went down in Atlanta and elsewhere around the same time just as egregious as storming the capitol building. Or certainly no less so. The Government’s “private property” isn’t more sacrosanct than my own or someone else’s is to me.The property is secondary, the continuing danger is the goal of the attack and the right wing apologists still pushing the lie on the gullible masses.
Beach Fanatic
There is no difference in the behavior. Violence is violence. Destruction is destruction. We do not need to spin those things into a lesser evil type of thing. There does seem to be a difference in the punishment for the behavior and it is a problem short and simple. We all are very good at justifying our less than ideal behaviors but that is probably a mistake. Society should strive to be fair and equal period. If the ends justify the means then it goes both ways and we have chaos. We have to have standards of behavior that rewards us for being civil and respectful regardless of the cause. The cause is always just in the minds of people who break these rules of behavior...There is a huge difference between the two scenarios. The Jan 6 failed coup was from its inception a crime directly against every good American citizen and also against the democratic processes of out country. As bad as some of the riots can be with their vandalism and even death, I can't claim personal victimhood. The Jan 6 insurrection is a different story. Every good American was a victim and should be utterly shocked and horrified at the failed treasonous power grab that was encouraged by the majority of Republicans in power.
Beach Fanatic
Personally, I found what was reported as happening last year by purported left wing “protestors” in the northwest and the stuff that went down in Atlanta and elsewhere around the same time just as egregious as storming the capitol building. Or certainly no less so. The Government’s “private property” isn’t more sacrosanct than my own or someone else’s is to me.I made another post on this, but the difference is that the Jan 6 insurrection was a direct personal attack on every good citizen of this country. It wasn't simply an attack on the Government's private property. Property is the least of my concerns. It was a treasonous criminal assault on everyone.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
The property is secondary, the continuing danger is the goal of the attack and the right wing apologists still pushing the lie on the gullible masses.Correct. Nice when I post something similar, having not read your post beforehand.
Beach Fanatic
There is a huge difference between the two scenarios. The Jan 6 failed coup was from its inception a crime directly against every good American citizen and also against the democratic processes of out country. As bad as some of the riots can be with their vandalism and even death, I can't claim personal victimhood. The Jan 6 insurrection is a different story. Every good American was a victim and should be utterly shocked and horrified at the failed treasonous power grab that was encouraged by the majority of Republicans in power.I agree about the coup attempt on our democracy and every American citizen. However we have to prosecute ALL people who riot and destroy property the same regardless of the cause otherwise we will have chaos. Trump should be prosecuted for the coup as well as many other things and the people should be prosecuted for the violence but because Trump has power he is treated differently. At some point we the people may all be forced to make very difficult choices. If we avoid the chaos we have a better chance at correcting this problem so it is very important not to justify violent and destructive behavior of any kind.
Beach Fanatic
People with power, in fact the highest power, incited the insurrection.I just believe that the goal is an equal, fair and just society. Democracy is the best way toward that goal because each of us has responsibility to elect people who do not abuse power. The problem is that politics will always seek to divide us into groups that work against each other. Therefore we can't focus on the differences but our similarities. The next election cycle is vital so I am just trying to connect with people and explain to them why we are all in this democracy for the same reasons. I understand that connecting with people is very very difficult in terms of political issues but we all want to be safe.
I will repeat so you can read it again and please take your time, violence should not be tolerated, excused, or deemed acceptable.
Take note no one said the violent protestors who destroyed property were just tourists strolling through the streets they owned. Property destruction and looting is wrong.
The perpetrators were arrested and many were convicted and again take note no one said they were political prisoners being unfairly treated like the right wing is portraying those who attacked our Capitol looking to execute the Speaker and Vice President.
If you want to discuss differences just remember the law enforcement presence at the protests compared to little to none at the insurrection.
If you can’t see the difference I can’t help you.
Beach Fanatic
The property is secondary, the continuing danger is the goal of the attack and the right wing apologists still pushing the lie on the gullible masses.
I made another post on this, but the difference is that the Jan 6 insurrection was a direct personal attack on every good citizen of this country. It wasn't simply an attack on the Government's private property. Property is the least of my concerns. It was a treasonous criminal assault on everyone.I mentioned “property” only because in the quote I was addressing, Poppaj used “property “ a couple of times in the sentence beginning “take note”. I am an American citizen, no less of a good one than anyone here, and I was as horrified by what was presented to me by the media out of Seattle and other areas way back when as I was of the media footage from Jan 6. Both were an assault on American values. Mputnal is right in my view, taking sides, particularly as rabidly as the left sides are defended here, is representative of what’s eating up this country. Trump sucked, Biden sucks. Conservatively and Progressively attitudes are getting worse and more divergent. Both left and right are fairly terrifying in their stupidity, greed, and selfishness. I haven’t always felt this way and I believe that was partially naïveté on my part but it’s also that the leadership has become poorer by far. Or simply more fearless in their disdain and depravity.
Edited
SoWal Insider
I mentioned “property” only because in the quote I was addressing, Poppaj used “property “ a couple of times in the sentence beginning “take note”. I am an American citizen, no less of a good one than anyone here, and I was as horrified by what was presented to me by the media out of Seattle and other areas way back when as I was of the media footage from Jan 6. Both were an assault on American values. Mputnal is right in my view, taking sides, particularly as rabidly as the left sides are defended here, is representative of what’s eating up this country. Trump sucked, Biden sucks. Conservatively and Progressively attitudes are getting worse and more divergent. Both left and right are fairly terrifying in their stupidity, greed, and selfishness. I haven’t always felt this way and I believe that was partially naïveté on my part but it’s also that the leadership has become poorer by far. Or simply more fearless in their disdain and depravity.And I mentioned property only in relation to destruction which is the point mputnal was making in his initial post when mistakenly claiming there was unequal justice applied.
With the exception of property damage bothsiderism does not and should not apply to the events of Jan 6.
SoWal Insider
I mentioned “property” only because in the quote I was addressing, Poppaj used “property “ a couple of times in the sentence beginning “take note”. I am an American citizen, no less of a good one than anyone here, and I was as horrified by what was presented to me by the media out of Seattle and other areas way back when as I was of the media footage from Jan 6. Both were an assault on American values. Mputnal is right in my view, taking sides, particularly as rabidly as the left sides are defended here, is representative of what’s eating up this country. Trump sucked, Biden sucks. Conservatively and Progressively attitudes are getting worse and more divergent. Both left and right are fairly terrifying in their stupidity, greed, and selfishness. I haven’t always felt this way and I believe that was partially naïveté on my part but it’s also that the leadership has become poorer by far. Or simply more fearless in their disdain and depravity.You are just falling into that same old "bothsidesism" mentality. Sure, progressives have many faults, but they are not trying to replace democracy with authoritarianism. The Retrumplican Party is literally trying to destroy the foundation of this country. They are systematically trying to dismantle fair elections. Period.
Beach FanaticAuthor
Although I oppose the riots in cities those are local issues. This attempt of January 6th was a Nation issue. The riots throughout our Nation sparked a backlash that created new unnecessary laws removing how local Government wants to govern. Florida was so concerned with police defunding because of what occurred in other States they set rules and processed on budgets. They instituted laws on "riots" or Protest that starts to infringe on you Constitutional Freedoms. They talk about being able to arrest you and hold you for a time where others can bond out, but because you were arrested for a particular "crime" you are detained.
SoWal Insider
Although I oppose the riots in cities those are local issues. This attempt of January 6th was a Nation issue. The riots throughout our Nation sparked a backlash that created new unnecessary laws removing how local Government wants to govern. Florida was so concerned with police defunding because of what occurred in other States they set rules and processed on budgets. They instituted laws on "riots" or Protest that starts to infringe on you Constitutional Freedoms. They talk about being able to arrest you and hold you for a time where others can bond out, but because you were arrested for a particular "crime" you are detained.We can’t afford to forget the Proud Boys and other extreme right wing hate groups continue to “stand back and stand by.”
Beach FanaticAuthor
Is fascism more acceptable than communism?
SoWal Insider
Is fascism more acceptable than communism?No. Communism ain't acceptable, either. Democratic socialism seems acceptable because American capitalism is creating gigantic gulfs between the wealthy and the middle class/poverty class, which is steering us into more social injustice, crime, and political polarization. When one party can claim "massive voter fraud in all fifty states", and it's ultra-wealthy donors just go along with it, chaos is bound to ensue.
Beach Comber
So, when it's all said and done (hypothetically) do the "right-wingers" believe that their lots in life will be remarkably different? Do they think they will be rewarded for trading democracy for who knows what? Do they really think, unless they are already part of a tight inner circle, that they will have a say in how America proceeds or can cash in (metaphorically) for all they've done to support the new order? No, a new order may come in but the plight of the the "little people" will always be that, a plight. Hell, if wingers meet Donald Trump in a gold-trimmed sauna do they think he would let them near him never mind reward them for their misplaced loyalty (he even segregates himself from his guests in his own club's dining room). These "reTrumplicans," if they have their way, are going to initially get a lot less (equity, security, assets, opportunities, et al) followed by a lot more [obfuscation, chaos, confusion, worry and abandonment (by the world)] than they're currently able to see. At least the rest of us will have some kind of sense of what lays before us. Calling all psychiatrists and mental health professionals....
Beach FanaticAuthor
No. Communism ain't acceptable, either. Democratic socialism seems acceptable because American capitalism is creating gigantic gulfs between the wealthy and the middle class/poverty class, which is steering us into more social injustice, crime, and political polarization. When one party can claim "massive voter fraud in all fifty states", and it's ultra-wealthy donors just go along with it, chaos is bound to ensue.I appreciate the response but that was just a rhetorical question. I love my Country with all its faults and truly believe we can be better. I was more or less give those on the hard right my view of what they say the left is and what I think the hard right is.
Beach Fanatic
You are just falling into that same old "bothsidesism" mentality. Sure, progressives have many faults, but they are not trying to replace democracy with authoritarianism. The Retrumplican Party is literally trying to destroy the foundation of this country. They are systematically trying to dismantle fair elections. Period.In this case let’s say “neithersideism” . Unrealistic I know. I’m hoping our AI overlords are benevolent or at least indifferent when they arrive. I don’t believe in the present and crumbling structure but what choice is there. I wish I could.
SoWal Insider
It was more than property damage
Beach Fanatic
And I mentioned property only in relation to destruction which is the point mputnal was making in his initial post when mistakenly claiming there was unequal justice applied.Do you believe that our political division affects equal justice? I am trying to make the point of human perspective and how it is affected by sharp political division. We can't even convince people to get the vaccine for the greater good so how are we to convince them that ALL destructive behavior is bad for society? I hear the "lock and load" sentiment way to frequently. People are willing to die for a cause so I say lets give them a reason to live for a better cause. If we lose our sense of respect for each other our democracy is over. I know it seems impossible but it's not...
With the exception of property damage bothsiderism does not and should not apply to the events of Jan 6.
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