I am irritated with the accusations of racial prejudice I am seeing on the news or elsewhere. To claim that George Bush does not care about black people, or that anyone else is deliberately ignoring black people, in the face of the worst natural disaster we have ever seen in the United States, is not only completely ridiculous, but has absolutely no place here. (I realize that this is the opinion of only a few, unfortunately well publicized individuals.)
Some journalist made a stupid choice of words when describing looters/"finders" and that really stinks, but to say that the entire government is this way is just completely out of place and unfair. We don't need activists in there brewing up trouble, and we don't need war-mongers trying to raise hostility right now. It really hurts to see peoples' attention being stolen away from what's important by these hateful thoughts.
There has been mass incompetancy here, on ALL LEVELS, mainly on the part of the mayor (who is black for goodness' sake) and the governor. But to say that the incompetancy has been on purpose due to peoples' skin color, just makes me mad enough to spit.
Replies
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leslie lou
Going off subject is the name of the game around here! And your subject matter is fantastic...I have cut back on my TV viewing as well...it's just that right now things are changing so quickly and new problems keep arising...so many things I never could conceive in my overactive imagination. Some of the best medicine has been reading the stories of hope and the determination of the people.
I did cut back some in the middle of the day to grill out and spend time with family, but we are back to watching some more Foxnews & CNN. Just can't stop watching. Feel if I'm not watching I'm missing out. Like an uplifting story or even something devestating. I just can't get enough of finding out what is going on with the people who are helping and the people who have survived this. I know I want to be apart of helping in some way, but not for sure what it is yet the Lord has in store for me.
leslie lou
Well, what I'm trying to say is that liberals will take every tragedy as an oportunity to slam Bush/republicans. If Kerry were in office, the liberals would be saying how smooth everything is going in N.O. Just like when Clinton bombed the heck of Serbia because it was a small white Christian nation trying to save itself from the radical muslims. The liberals painted Mr. Clinton as some god. It's so stupid.
I agree wishly, let's stop the Bush Bashing and concentrate on what we can do to help our fellow citizens.
SoWal Guide
Thanks Tootsy. Well, what I'm trying to say is that liberals will take every tragedy as an oportunity to slam Bush/republicans. If Kerry were in office, the liberals would be saying how smooth everything is going in N.O. Just like when Clinton bombed the heck of Serbia because it was a small white Christian nation trying to save itself from the radical muslims. The liberals painted Mr. Clinton as some god. It's so stupid.
Maybe I have been too focused on the tragedy of the events unfolding, but I haven't heard of "liberals" doing anything like this (is a liberal a democrat or anyone not a republican, or what is your definition?). But I have heard many citizens (reporters, viewers like us, and especially desperate people in NO) very concerned about the slowness of disaster response in the first 4 or 5 days, including President Bush who stated that the initial response had been unacceptable. If citizens and victims had not protested loudly, then we may not be seeing the results that we are finally seeing now. I don't believe people are being political here (at least not the ones you hear from who truly care). But they do have great expectations of response and recovery efforts being carried out for the people of our own country.
Bush supporters and Bush bashers are all in this thing together. It's not about Bush. It's about people.
Beach Lover
Thanks Tootsy. Well, what I'm trying to say is that liberals will take every tragedy as an oportunity to slam Bush/republicans. If Kerry were in office, the liberals would be saying how smooth everything is going in N.O. Just like when Clinton bombed the heck of Serbia because it was a small white Christian nation trying to save itself from the radical muslims. The liberals painted Mr. Clinton as some god. It's so stupid.
Interesting take on the Serbian situation. Maybe you should sign up for Slobodan Milosevic's defense team:
http://www.un.org/icty/glance/milosevic.htm
I was in Croatia at the Serbia-Croatia border last month and saw first hand what the gentle, peaceful Serbians did there. Well, what was left of that area of Croatia. Was also in Belgrade and numerous other places in Serbia and saw the results of our bombing. No comparison, as I am sure you know.
Off point, but this is the lounge.
SoWal Expert
Thanks Tootsy. Well, what I'm trying to say is that liberals will take every tragedy as an oportunity to slam Bush/republicans. If Kerry were in office, the liberals would be saying how smooth everything is going in N.O. Just like when Clinton bombed the heck of Serbia because it was a small white Christian nation trying to save itself from the radical muslims. The liberals painted Mr. Clinton as some god. It's so stupid.
Whoa, Nellie! I am on neither side of the Rep /Dem fence, but you are kidding yourself if you don't think the opposite happens, ie - the Rep's bash the Dem's every chance they get, too. So what? That is politics, nothing new.
I must say that I thought your original post regarding this felt out of place, and maybe you read into it the wrong way. That may be why Tootsie questioned your statement. I don't think much bashing outside of the NOLA Mayor has been done on this board. Maybe I am the one who is mistaken, but I think you took the statement in the wrong way.
leslie lou
Bush supporters and Bush bashers are all in this thing together. It's not about Bush. It's about people.[/QUOTE]
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Beach Fanatic
I'm sorry. I might be missenformed. So I'm starting my post with this I'm sorry if I have my facts wrong. I'm sorry if my ignorance (or misspelling) offends any one.
Every one seems very quick to place blame (ie the media). They should have evacuated faster, sooner. The government should not have waited three days to do something...on and on and on. But are we missing something (or is it just me) People were told to leave. The couldn't or didn't or what ever at this point, that's not important. Now let's deal with that. The dome was then opened as a last resort refuge. Ok, the hurricane hits, everyone breathes a sigh of relief, NO was not hit THAT bad. But then the levys failed. Had they not, wouldn't everyone have gone home in a couple of days? Now what. In the BEST of circumstances to evacaute a city the size of NO would be a HUGE undertaking. Now, let's add to the equation, or subtract. No highways, no roads, no communication. I myself find it amazing that ANY body got out under these conditions in just 4 days! I live in a fairly large city. If the Cardinals and the Rams are playing on the same night, traffic in downtown St. Louis is at a stand still. Makes all the evening news --- 3 hour commutes for a 20 mile drive. So why is it so hard to believe (although very hard to watch), with a city underwater, it might take some time to get equipment in, get buses in, gain control again...
I guess I'm just ranting because it was so tragic and it is so hard to watch, just seems to me playing monday morning quarteback really does no good. Maybe as a society it makes it easier for us to be able to place blame on someone or something -- ease the pain if it's someone fault. But truly, I don't see it here.
Again, I'm sorry if I have my facts wrong.
Every one seems very quick to place blame (ie the media). They should have evacuated faster, sooner. The government should not have waited three days to do something...on and on and on. But are we missing something (or is it just me) People were told to leave. The couldn't or didn't or what ever at this point, that's not important. Now let's deal with that. The dome was then opened as a last resort refuge. Ok, the hurricane hits, everyone breathes a sigh of relief, NO was not hit THAT bad. But then the levys failed. Had they not, wouldn't everyone have gone home in a couple of days? Now what. In the BEST of circumstances to evacaute a city the size of NO would be a HUGE undertaking. Now, let's add to the equation, or subtract. No highways, no roads, no communication. I myself find it amazing that ANY body got out under these conditions in just 4 days! I live in a fairly large city. If the Cardinals and the Rams are playing on the same night, traffic in downtown St. Louis is at a stand still. Makes all the evening news --- 3 hour commutes for a 20 mile drive. So why is it so hard to believe (although very hard to watch), with a city underwater, it might take some time to get equipment in, get buses in, gain control again...
I guess I'm just ranting because it was so tragic and it is so hard to watch, just seems to me playing monday morning quarteback really does no good. Maybe as a society it makes it easier for us to be able to place blame on someone or something -- ease the pain if it's someone fault. But truly, I don't see it here.
Again, I'm sorry if I have my facts wrong.
Beach Lover
Travel2Much, that link you put up is the prosecution team's concoction.
Ya know, the Serbs were simply trying to protect their sacred monuments from being destroyed by these muslim Albanians that inhabited that region of their country. Lord knows how these Ethnic Albanians took it upon themselves to set up housekeeping in Serbia in the first place. What's wrong with Albania? But they did encroach on their neighboring country of Serbia and then they had to audacity to try to tear down the Christian monuments that had been there for centuries. They had their forces killing any Serb that tried to stop them. Then in pops Clinton's army and helps them. And, of course, the political spin was that the Serbs were wrong and Milosevic was another Hitler. Hence, news showing Albanians being shipped out on cargo trains. Funny thing, they were smiling and waving at the cameras as they told their stories of being "raped" and "tortured." What fools they must think we are. If there was any crying, crocodile tears would describe it.
Yes, I'd be on Milosevic's defense team in a heartbeat.
But that's another story. I'm just pointing out the jerks the liberals are. That's all.
Ya know, the Serbs were simply trying to protect their sacred monuments from being destroyed by these muslim Albanians that inhabited that region of their country. Lord knows how these Ethnic Albanians took it upon themselves to set up housekeeping in Serbia in the first place. What's wrong with Albania? But they did encroach on their neighboring country of Serbia and then they had to audacity to try to tear down the Christian monuments that had been there for centuries. They had their forces killing any Serb that tried to stop them. Then in pops Clinton's army and helps them. And, of course, the political spin was that the Serbs were wrong and Milosevic was another Hitler. Hence, news showing Albanians being shipped out on cargo trains. Funny thing, they were smiling and waving at the cameras as they told their stories of being "raped" and "tortured." What fools they must think we are. If there was any crying, crocodile tears would describe it.
Yes, I'd be on Milosevic's defense team in a heartbeat.
But that's another story. I'm just pointing out the jerks the liberals are. That's all.
Beach Lover
The issue of why so many people, particularly people of color, did not evacuate or seek shelter in the dome is fascinating to me. NOLA has always had a "it's your choice" approach. Clearly that affects people disproportionately. It seems basic $$$ impacts whether you can evacuate. You either have it or you don't. Less so of simply getting to the shelter. In retrospect, given what happened, perhaps many more people, churches, and organizations could have found the transportation or resources to leave (there are lots of cars floating around NOLA--even if you don't have a car you might likely know someone who did). Some other random thoughts:
1. Even if you have $$$, even a small amount, $$$ affects your decision regarding evacuation. I myself, who had a room in Houston, headed east because if it was a say 5 day thing that was going to be $700 or so. That's a lot of $$ for even me (SoWal mortgage considered). Bigger burden as you go down the income scale.
2. The potential to have to spend $$ can affect your evaluation of the danger you are in. Particularly when it will be the very last dime.
3. Hurricane was at the end of the month. People short of cash.
4. The education system in NOLA (where the poor attend) is notoriously bad. The hurricane education obviously did not reach the poor.
5. Pets Pets Pets Pets Pets. I used to ride these things out in NOLA somewhat for this reason. Then I realized many hotels take pets.
6. NOLA had two recent false alarms: Ivan, where there was an evacuation and the city was fine, and Dennis, where some folk evacuated even though it never even went to an evacuation in LA. Creates perceptions that this too will be a false alarm. I heard some woman saying she stayed b/c she was still paying off the Ivan bills.
7. Leaving your home is tough to do. Rich or poor. Particularly for the old and the poor. The violence in the lower 9th is incredible, thus fear of looting.
8. Ivan was NOLA's first experience with contraflow. Many many problems (which were addressed fortunately in the interim). A concern has always been that after Ivan people would simply not evacuate b/c contraflow was such a disaster then.
9. NOLA's evacuation plan sucks.
10. During a prior storm where the dome was used, I want to say Andrew but I think it was later than that, there was a near riot when people were not allowed immediately to leave (power lines down). City was reluctant to use the dome, I think, for that reason, and perhaps people were reluctant to go.
1. Even if you have $$$, even a small amount, $$$ affects your decision regarding evacuation. I myself, who had a room in Houston, headed east because if it was a say 5 day thing that was going to be $700 or so. That's a lot of $$ for even me (SoWal mortgage considered). Bigger burden as you go down the income scale.
2. The potential to have to spend $$ can affect your evaluation of the danger you are in. Particularly when it will be the very last dime.
3. Hurricane was at the end of the month. People short of cash.
4. The education system in NOLA (where the poor attend) is notoriously bad. The hurricane education obviously did not reach the poor.
5. Pets Pets Pets Pets Pets. I used to ride these things out in NOLA somewhat for this reason. Then I realized many hotels take pets.
6. NOLA had two recent false alarms: Ivan, where there was an evacuation and the city was fine, and Dennis, where some folk evacuated even though it never even went to an evacuation in LA. Creates perceptions that this too will be a false alarm. I heard some woman saying she stayed b/c she was still paying off the Ivan bills.
7. Leaving your home is tough to do. Rich or poor. Particularly for the old and the poor. The violence in the lower 9th is incredible, thus fear of looting.
8. Ivan was NOLA's first experience with contraflow. Many many problems (which were addressed fortunately in the interim). A concern has always been that after Ivan people would simply not evacuate b/c contraflow was such a disaster then.
9. NOLA's evacuation plan sucks.
10. During a prior storm where the dome was used, I want to say Andrew but I think it was later than that, there was a near riot when people were not allowed immediately to leave (power lines down). City was reluctant to use the dome, I think, for that reason, and perhaps people were reluctant to go.
leslie lou
Also there is the "Camilla Syndrome." Alot of people thought hey I made it through that I can make it through this.
Beach Lover
.... Lord knows how these Ethnic Albanians took it upon themselves to set up housekeeping in Serbia in the first place. What's wrong with Albania...
Ummm, because they have been living there for centuries, probably from the time of the Ottoman Empire, and were required to be part of Yugoslavia during the Tito period. Remember those awful communiss from the Cold War before Muslims became the target? That's how they set up "housekeeping" there. Croats (the other alleged victims) are Roman Catholic, if you are looking for non-heathen targets. They set up "housekeeping" there too centuries ago.
That said, let's leave this. Not that I am not impressed by your evident knowledge of the area.
Edited
margarita brocolia
The issue of why so many people, particularly people of color, did not evacuate or seek shelter in the dome is fascinating to me. NOLA has always had a "it's your choice" approach. Clearly that affects people disproportionately. It seems basic $$$ impacts whether you can evacuate. You either have it or you don't. Less so of simply getting to the shelter. In retrospect, given what happened, perhaps many more people, churches, and organizations could have found the transportation or resources to leave (there are lots of cars floating around NOLA--even if you don't have a car you might likely know someone who did). Some other random thoughts: ...................List of 10 possible reasons given.Your list of reasons for not having evacuated could only come from someone who knows the area well. Thanks for the insight.
Beach Lover
Ummm, because they have been living there for centuries, probably from the time of the Ottoman Empire, and were required to be part of Yugoslavia during the Tito period. Remember those awful communiss from the Cold War before Muslims became the target? That's how they set up "housekeeping" there. Croats (the other alleged victims) are Roman Catholic, if you are looking for non-heathen targets. They set up "housekeeping" there too centuries ago.
That said, let's leave this. Not that I am not impressed by your evident knowledge of the area.
They may have been around awhile but they weren't in power. Then they started over-breeding and thought they could take over and push out all non-muslims. If any ethnic cleansing was going on, it was by them.
All I'm saying is it was stupid of Clinton and NATO to bomb Serbia. It backfired and only escalated the problems we're having with Russia and China today. They hate us. I don't blame them. Thanks to Clinton and his NATO thugs.
Beach Lover
They may have been around awhile but they weren't in power. Then they started over-breeding and thought they could take over and push out all non-muslims. If any ethnic cleansing was going on, it was by them.
All I'm saying is it was stupid of Clinton and NATO to bomb Serbia. It backfired and only escalated the problems we're having with Russia and China today. They hate us. I don't blame them. Thanks to Clinton and his NATO thugs.
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
Beach Lover
Also there is the "Camilla Syndrome." Alot of people thought hey I made it through that I can make it through this.
Definitely. Camille & Betsy (1960s) have always stood out in NOLA mind as the worse trials. I have a friend who has/had the things her family saved from Betsy (her house in maybe underwater). And, if you made it through them, well why not? I will admit that since I live in a 100 year old house that survived every hurricane since, well, whenever it was built, I have a perception it ain't going anywhere (it apparently didn't, and survived flooding due to location, but that's not the point).
SoWal Expert
They may have been around awhile but they weren't in power. Then they started over-breeding and thought they could take over and push out all non-muslims. If any ethnic cleansing was going on, it was by them.
All I'm saying is it was stupid of Clinton and NATO to bomb Serbia. It backfired and only escalated the problems we're having with Russia and China today. They hate us. I don't blame them. Thanks to Clinton and his NATO thugs.
You guys are in the lounge on a thread regarding race, ??? Go have a drink and stop the pissing contest.
Beach Lover
Thanks Smiling Joe :clap_1:
Beach Lover
Beach Fanatic
I am wondering why the military has not used the infrared devices to survey all of the houses in order to find out where living people are located and begin the rescues.
(catchup on old thread)
...because all of them are being used by DEA looking for pot farmers.
Seriously, though, think about an infrared device trying to discriminate, from above, a 98.6 (or thereabouts) mass within a structure that's been cookin' in the hot sun - attic temps probably in the 100+ range even after things cool off at night...
I've heard of a cousin to Ground Penetrating Radar tech than can discriminate "salt water bags" (humans) within structures, but the only publicly acknowledged application of that technology (SoldierVision) I've run across has a very limited range - about 20m
Beach Lover
On the topic of race...
Keep in mind that blatant discrimination is easily ended because it is easy to see. It is the subtle nuances of racism that have the most staying power. They exist even within those of us who believe we are free of racism and other forms of discrimination. No one is totally free of prejudice. Be careful. If you think you no longer need to work at being totally racism free; you are certainly very wrong. The discrimination in New Orleans is as obvious as the difference between black and white. The hard part is deciding where it came from and how to deal with it. I don't believe anyone would intentionally disregard victims because of race; I don't think any person should be blamed, but somehow those people were left behind in huge numbers and it took way too long to reach them. Whatever the cause, the problem needs to be fixed.
Keep in mind that blatant discrimination is easily ended because it is easy to see. It is the subtle nuances of racism that have the most staying power. They exist even within those of us who believe we are free of racism and other forms of discrimination. No one is totally free of prejudice. Be careful. If you think you no longer need to work at being totally racism free; you are certainly very wrong. The discrimination in New Orleans is as obvious as the difference between black and white. The hard part is deciding where it came from and how to deal with it. I don't believe anyone would intentionally disregard victims because of race; I don't think any person should be blamed, but somehow those people were left behind in huge numbers and it took way too long to reach them. Whatever the cause, the problem needs to be fixed.
Beach Lover
I tend to be prejudice against ungodly folks. When I say prejudice, I mean I steer clear of them. To me, ungodly folk are the devil's appendages. He uses ungodly folk to help him displease the Almighty. The devil is ugly and harmful and crafty and deceitful and out to destroy anything beautiful.
Rule of thumb:
Beauty=Almighty
Ugly=devil
Rule of thumb:
Beauty=Almighty
Ugly=devil
SoWal Expert
I tend to be prejudice against ungodly folks. When I say prejudice, I mean I steer clear of them. To me, ungodly folk are the devil's appendages. He uses ungodly folk to help him displease the Almighty. The devil is ugly and harmful and crafty and deceitful and out to destroy anything beautiful.
Rule of thumb:
Beauty=Almighty
Ugly=devil
This is the lounge! The philosophy thread is ... yet to be created. Go there immediately. The religion thread is in the same place. I repeat, this is the Lounge, full of humour, non-sense, some cussing without the vowels, some sex cakes, and other devilish stuff. Say it with me, L-O-U-N-G-E. Lounge. Keep saying it and it just may make you forget why you were here. You will want to do nothing other than Lounge.
BTW (that is By the Way for CJ), to many double negatives to sort out your statement. It is easier to understand if you say what you mean and not what you don't mean.
One other thing, if ugly = devil, I guess I am wearing red.
Edited
Beach Lover
"ungodly folk are the devil's appendages" - if this is a lounge, I need another appletini.
Beach Lover
Folks, all your pictures are of the Almighty's creations. Not the devil's. The devil can't create anything but havoc.
SoWal Expert
Folks, all your pictures are of the Almighty's creations. Not the devil's. The devil can't create anything but havoc.
What does that have to do with racism? or the Lounge's useless, but fun information? I am not trying to offend the Godly folks, but I think you need to be on the thread God v Devil. Okay, it was difficult for me to place it in the other forum which is supposed to be about SoWal info. Forgive me, fellow loungers.
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