Not poverty. Not our support of Israel. Rather, suppression of civil liberties and political rights. Chickpea, here are your root causes, even though I know you won't read the book when it comes out.
Princeton Economist Says
Lack of Civil Liberties, Not
Poverty, Breeds Terrorism
July 5, 2007; Page A2
When Princeton economist Alan Krueger saw reports that seven of eight people arrested in the unsuccessful car bombings in Britain were doctors, he wasn't shocked. He wasn't even surprised.
"Each time we have one of these attacks and the backgrounds of the attackers are revealed, this should put to rest the myth that terrorists are attacking us because they are desperately poor," he says. "But this misconception doesn't die."
Less than a year after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, President Bush said, "We fight against poverty because hope is an answer to terror." A couple of months later, his wife, Laura, said, "Educated children are much more likely to embrace the values that defeat terror." Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn has argued, "The war on terrorism will not be won until we have come to grips with the problem of poverty, and thus the sources of discontent."
The analysis is plausible. It's appealing because it bolsters the case for the worthy goals of fighting poverty and ignorance. But systematic study -- to the extent possible -- suggests it's wrong.
"As a group, terrorists are better educated and from wealthier families than the typical person in the same age group in the societies from which they originate," Mr. Krueger said at the London School of Economics last year in a lecture soon to be published as a book, "What Makes a Terrorist?"
"There is no evidence of a general tendency for impoverished or uneducated people to be more likely to support terrorism or join terrorist organizations than their higher-income, better-educated countrymen," he said. The Sept. 11 attackers were relatively well-off men from a rich country, Saudi Arabia.
Mr. Krueger, 46 years old, is one of those academics whose research extends from the standard fare -- How much more do workers with education earn? What happens to employment when the minimum wage rises? -- to, well, cool stuff. Did Firestone factories produce shoddy tires during a period of labor unrest? (Yes) Are rich people really enjoying life more than the rest of us? (No) Are concert-ticket prices higher for female musicians than males? (Yes)
He began poking around this sordid subject a decade ago when he and a colleague found little connection between economic circumstances and the incidence of violent hate crimes in Germany. Among the statistical pieces of the puzzle a small band of academics have assembled since are these:
? Backgrounds of 148 Palestinian suicide bombers show they were less likely to come from families living in poverty and were more likely to have finished high school than the general population. Biographies of 129 Hezbollah shahids (martyrs) reveal they, too, are less likely to be from poor families than the Lebanese population from which they come. The same goes for available data about an Israeli terrorist organization, Gush Emunim, active in the 1980s.
? Terrorism doesn't increase in the Middle East when economic conditions worsen; indeed, there seems no link. One study finds the number of terrorist incidents is actually higher in countries that spend more on social-welfare programs. Slicing and dicing data finds no discernible pattern that countries that are poorer or more illiterate produce more terrorists. Examining 781 terrorist events classified by the U.S. State Department as "significant" reveals terrorists tend to come from countries distinguished by political oppression, not poverty or inequality.
? Public-opinion polls from Jordan, Morocco, Pakistan and Turkey find people with more education are more likely to say suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq are justified. Polls of Palestinians find no clear difference in support for terrorism as a means to achieve political ends between the most and least educated.
Data on which all this relies are hardly perfect: Terrorists don't fill out elaborate questionnaires. Better-off, better-educated individuals could be motivated if not by their own circumstances, then by the conditions of their impoverished countrymen. Interviews of terrorists in Pakistan by Harvard terrorism scholar Jessica Stern reveal recruiters there found the poorest neighborhoods to be the most fertile ground, particularly among those who feel Muslims are humiliated by the West. She says Mr. Krueger and like-minded scholars don't yet have enough evidence to prove anything. "We are only just beginning to do really serious large studies in terrorism," she says.
But the conventional wisdom that poverty breeds terrorism is backed by surprisingly little hard evidence. "The evidence is nearly unanimous in rejecting either material deprivation or inadequate education as an important cause of support for terrorism or of participation in terrorist activities," Mr. Krueger asserts. The 9/11 Commission stated flatly: Terrorism is not caused by poverty.
So what is the cause? Suppression of civil liberties and political rights, Mr. Krueger hypothesizes. "When nonviolent means of protest are curtailed," he says, "malcontents appear to be more likely to turn to terrorist tactics."
Which -- ironically, given that Mr. Krueger is no fan of the president's actual policies at home or abroad -- is close to Mr. Bush's rhetoric: "Liberty has got the capacity to change enemies into allies."
Write to David Wessel at capital@wsj.com, or chat with him about this column in his online forum.
Replies
297SoWal Expert
Who would have thought that I would be called internet people in this lifetime!!!
Internet people!!
With an apology to Uncle Timmy in advance for playing around on the this thread.
Meow
Internet people!!
![]()
With an apology to Uncle Timmy in advance for playing around on the this thread.
Does sound better than ax murderer, doesn't it???

SoWal Expert
Does sound better than ax murderer, doesn't it???![]()
"Imaginary friends" always works for me.;-)
Beach Fanatic
Sorry that your self esteem depends on declaring yourself the winner of internet arguments and thinking that you've proved yourself to people who don't know you under an assumed name against people that you don't know and who don't take you seriously.
Funny that you should interest yourself with MY self esteem.
Kinda makes us all wonder how YOUR self esteem can withstand the embarassment of having 1,352 people (and growing) view a thread where you display some of the poorest thinking skills I have seen since I stopped paying attention to Bush Admin press briefings.
Apparently you are comfortable living in a world where bravada and stubborness are an acceptable substitute for reason.
Want to guess as to how many of those 1,352 people are coming with you?
Your attitude in this whole debate reminds me more of that scene from Dr. Srtrangelove when Slim Pickins rides the A-bomb to hell, whooping and hollering like a mad man.
(Since you felt obliged to make a movie reference, I added my own.)
Beach Fanatic
:funn:
Poor 6thGen...he is in the vortex and he can't get out!
He can always get out by admitting he was wrong.
But, we all knew he wasn’t going to do that now didn’t we? That combined with his need to always get the last word in keeps bringing him back to be bashed some more.
I did warn him very early on that this was only going to lead to more embarrassment.
It has been entertaining watching him thrash about in frustration trying every trick in the book to get himself out of this.
Edited
Darlene is my middle name, not my nickname
I don't hang out with internet people.
Maybe you should, you might have a little FUNN in your life!!!!!
SoWal Insider
"Imaginary friends" always works for me.;-)
That's what my kids say.
SoWal Insider
No, I'm just tired of your pissing contest of splitting hairs once the crux of the argument has been demonstrated. Like I said, it's like Clinton asking the prosecutor to define the meaning of the word "is".
since you're such a fan, you should know these lines...........
From Ferris Bueller:
Sloan/ 6th: What are we going to do?
Ferris/ Uncle Timmy: The question isn't "what are we going to do," the
question is "what aren't we going to do?"
Looks like your root cause theory got uprooted, so just say "Uncle"
Edited
Beach Fanatic
since you're such a fan, you should know these lines...........
From Ferris Bueller:
Sloan/ 6th: What are we going to do?
Ferris/ Uncle Timmy: The question isn't "what are we going to do," the
question is "what aren't we going to do?"
Looks like your root cause theory got uprooted, so just say "Uncle"![]()
Maybe we should offer 6thGen a plea deal:
6thGen,
Why don’t you take the position that you didn’t understand the difference between a ‘common factor’ and a ‘root cause’; (because the difference amounts to splitting hairs, in your opinion)
Therefore, what you have actually been arguing the whole time is that “civil and political oppression is a common factor in some forms of terrorism.”
And that you have won that argument.
And then you can slink off with some shred of dignity without actually having to concede that ‘civil and political oppression is not a root cause of terrorism.’
And then the rest of us can get down to having an intelligent discussion.
If you don’t take the plea deal then I can look forward to humiliating you in front of 2,000, maybe 3,000 people? My self esteem can handle it, can yours?
Edited
Beach FanaticAuthor
Maybe we should offer 6thGen a plea deal:
6thGen,
Why don?t you take the position that you didn?t understand the difference between a ?common factor? and a ?root cause?; (because the difference amounts to splitting hairs, in your opinion)
Therefore, what you have actually been arguing the whole time is that ?civil and political oppression is a common factor in some forms of terrorism.?
And that you have won that argument.
And then you can slink off with some shred of dignity without actually having to concede that ?civil and political oppression is not a root cause of terrorism.?
And then the rest of us can get down to having an intelligent discussion.
If you don?t take the plea deal then I can look forward to humiliating you in front of 2,000, maybe 3,000 people? My self esteem can handle it, can yours?
Again, I'm not conceding a damn thing, even if the other internet people agree with you. The fact that you have more free time to post more than I do doesn't mean you can make a compelling argument. Regardless, you sure seem to care how many internet people agree with you. That's important to you, isn't it?
Beach Fanatic
Regardless, you sure seem to care how many internet people agree with you. That's important to you, isn't it?
Ah yes, that must be the ?root cause? of your inability to make a logical argument here, 6 pages worth of attempts just isn?t enough to explain your reasoning????.that and the fact that the internet people just aren?t quick enough to follow your logic.
Beach Fanatic
So let?s recap???.
A ?root cause? is by the definition you provided, The most basic reason, which if eliminated, would prevent recurrence.
You must agree with that, since you posted it.
And yet ????
Timothy McVeigh
Richard Reid ?the shoebomber who grew up in England
Ted Kazinski ?the uni-bomber
Carlos the Jackal
???..Are all examples where your ?proposed root cause? is absent and yet we have terrorism.
Even worse, the Basque separatist group ETA only got cranked up after civil and political oppression ended in Spain.
Therefore logic dictates that we can not conclude that ?civil and political oppression? is the root cause of terrorism.
Let?s see that brilliant 6thGen bravada and stubborness at work one more time????.
Again, I'm not conceding a damn thing, even if the other internet people agree with you. The fact that you have more free time to post more than I do doesn't mean you can make a compelling argument.
Keep on believing that if you simply ignore it, the compelling argument will go away
Beach FanaticAuthor
Ah yes, that must be the ?root cause? of your inability to make a logical argument here, 6 pages worth of attempts just isn?t enough to explain your reasoning????.that and the fact that the internet people just aren?t quick enough to follow your logic.
You don't have to take a vote, just look at the evidence. Is oppression an overwhelming theme or isn't it? You can disagree that water is wet, but it doesn't change anything.
Beach Fanatic
You don't have to take a vote, just look at the evidence. Is oppression an overwhelming theme or isn't it? You can disagree that water is wet, but it doesn't change anything.
Yeah, you already tried this route before ?Is it a catalyst or isn?t it? Is it a common factor or isn?t it? Is it an overwhelming theme or isn?t it?
Nobody but you is debating ?catalysts?, ?common factors?, and ?overwhelming (unqualified) themes.?
?Root causes? are the topic of this discussion. Stick to the original argument and its definitions.
Hint: The definition of root cause is different than that of a catalyst, factor, or theme.
Beach Fanatic
Yeah, you already tried this route before ?Is it a catalyst or isn?t it? Is it a common factor or isn?t it? Is it an overwhelming theme or isn?t it?.
Here are some other synonyms for catalyst, factor, and theme that you can use to re-ask the question a few more times:
Accelerator
Activator
Causal agency
Component
Agent
Motif
Just thought I would save you some time, for as you said you just don?t have as much as me.
Beach FanaticAuthor
Yeah, you already tried this route before ?Is it a catalyst or isn?t it? Is it a common factor or isn?t it? Is it an overwhelming theme or isn?t it?
Nobody but you is debating ?catalysts?, ?common factors?, and ?overwhelming (unqualified) themes.?
?Root causes? are the topic of this discussion. Stick to the original argument and its definitions.
Hint: The definition of root cause is different than that of a catalyst, factor, or theme.
You said earlier that my belief that it was a catalyst was wrong. Are you taking that back?
Beach Fanatic
You don't have to take a vote, just look at the evidence. Is oppression an overwhelming theme or isn't it? You can disagree that water is wet, but it doesn't change anything.
(I've not limited myself to those two choices.)
Beach FanaticAuthor
(I've not limited myself to those two choices.)
Let me give you a scenario here, one you can work with.
Say an Indian walks up to you and offers to do a rain dance (not sure if it's one word or two) for you or pass out in the street drunk, Ira Hayes style (this is a joke and a caricature to make a point, everyone, don't get worked up). If you didn't really care for either, you could say that neither, that you didn't want to limit yourself to those two choices. If he walked up and said "You want-um watch rain dance?", saying that you didn't limit yourself to those two choices would make you look like an idiot.
Beach Fanatic
You said earlier that my belief that it was a catalyst was wrong. Are you taking that back?
Yes, in the face of your blistering and unrelentingly well thought out arguments, I am recanting everything I have said.............................
Do you have anything new to add to this discussion because you look like you are intellectually flailing uncontrolably here and I am having a hard time even understanding your attempted point here.
Beach Fanatic
Let me give you a scenario here, one you can work with.
Say an Indian walks up to you and offers to do a rain dance (not sure if it's one word or two) for you or pass out in the street drunk, Ira Hayes style (this is a joke and a caricature to make a point, everyone, don't get worked up). If you didn't really care for either, you could say that neither, that you didn't want to limit yourself to those two choices. If he walked up and said "You want-um watch rain dance?", saying that you didn't limit yourself to those two choices would make you look like an idiot.
The words on my post are from you

Beach Fanatic
Let me give you a scenario here, one you can work with.
Say an Indian walks up to you and offers to do a rain dance (not sure if it's one word or two) for you or pass out in the street drunk, Ira Hayes style (this is a joke and a caricature to make a point, everyone, don't get worked up). If you didn't really care for either, you could say that neither, that you didn't want to limit yourself to those two choices. If he walked up and said "You want-um watch rain dance?", saying that you didn't limit yourself to those two choices would make you look like an idiot.
Well, I agree.........someone here sure looked like a idiot.
Beach FanaticAuthor
The words on my post are from you
Wow. Deductive reasoning really isn't your strong point, is it?
Beach FanaticAuthor
Well, I agree.........someone here sure looked like a idiot.
You ever notice how you accuse me of trying to get in the last word, then manage to post at least 3 times when I've gone a few hours without responding to you?
Beach Fanatic
You ever notice how you accuse me of trying to get in the last word, then manage to post at least 3 times when I've gone a few hours without responding to you?
I know that really pisses you off. It explains why you always post at 4:55 each day hoping to get in that last word of the day.
Deal with it.
Beach FanaticAuthor
I know that really pisses you off. It explains why you always post at 4:55 each day hoping to get in that last word of the day.
Deal with it.
It doesn't piss me off, it just reiterates my personal opinion of you. Your second sentence doesn't make any sense, so you've remained consistent on this thread.
Tell you what - I'll leave this as my last reply. I know you are going to throw a tickertape parade and perform some dance that Chad Johnson would call gaudy, proclaiming that Dewey defeat Truman, so I'll let you have your moment in the sun with your internet friends because I know how much that means to you given your obvious lack of self-satisfaction achieved in your real life. I'm not going to falsely state that oppression is not a root cause of terrorism, and you are not going to admit it's a catalyst without at least 4 paragraphs of splitting hairs on different definitions of "catalyist".
Punchin' out.
Edited
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Who would have thought that I would be called internet people in this lifetime!!!