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What makes a terrorist?

6thGen avatar
Beach Fanatic
11,445 views
Not poverty. Not our support of Israel. Rather, suppression of civil liberties and political rights. Chickpea, here are your root causes, even though I know you won't read the book when it comes out.

Princeton Economist Says
Lack of Civil Liberties, Not
Poverty, Breeds Terrorism
July 5, 2007; Page A2
When Princeton economist Alan Krueger saw reports that seven of eight people arrested in the unsuccessful car bombings in Britain were doctors, he wasn't shocked. He wasn't even surprised.

"Each time we have one of these attacks and the backgrounds of the attackers are revealed, this should put to rest the myth that terrorists are attacking us because they are desperately poor," he says. "But this misconception doesn't die."

Less than a year after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, President Bush said, "We fight against poverty because hope is an answer to terror." A couple of months later, his wife, Laura, said, "Educated children are much more likely to embrace the values that defeat terror." Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn has argued, "The war on terrorism will not be won until we have come to grips with the problem of poverty, and thus the sources of discontent."

The analysis is plausible. It's appealing because it bolsters the case for the worthy goals of fighting poverty and ignorance. But systematic study -- to the extent possible -- suggests it's wrong.

"As a group, terrorists are better educated and from wealthier families than the typical person in the same age group in the societies from which they originate," Mr. Krueger said at the London School of Economics last year in a lecture soon to be published as a book, "What Makes a Terrorist?"

"There is no evidence of a general tendency for impoverished or uneducated people to be more likely to support terrorism or join terrorist organizations than their higher-income, better-educated countrymen," he said. The Sept. 11 attackers were relatively well-off men from a rich country, Saudi Arabia.

Mr. Krueger, 46 years old, is one of those academics whose research extends from the standard fare -- How much more do workers with education earn? What happens to employment when the minimum wage rises? -- to, well, cool stuff. Did Firestone factories produce shoddy tires during a period of labor unrest? (Yes) Are rich people really enjoying life more than the rest of us? (No) Are concert-ticket prices higher for female musicians than males? (Yes)

He began poking around this sordid subject a decade ago when he and a colleague found little connection between economic circumstances and the incidence of violent hate crimes in Germany. Among the statistical pieces of the puzzle a small band of academics have assembled since are these:

? Backgrounds of 148 Palestinian suicide bombers show they were less likely to come from families living in poverty and were more likely to have finished high school than the general population. Biographies of 129 Hezbollah shahids (martyrs) reveal they, too, are less likely to be from poor families than the Lebanese population from which they come. The same goes for available data about an Israeli terrorist organization, Gush Emunim, active in the 1980s.

? Terrorism doesn't increase in the Middle East when economic conditions worsen; indeed, there seems no link. One study finds the number of terrorist incidents is actually higher in countries that spend more on social-welfare programs. Slicing and dicing data finds no discernible pattern that countries that are poorer or more illiterate produce more terrorists. Examining 781 terrorist events classified by the U.S. State Department as "significant" reveals terrorists tend to come from countries distinguished by political oppression, not poverty or inequality.

? Public-opinion polls from Jordan, Morocco, Pakistan and Turkey find people with more education are more likely to say suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq are justified. Polls of Palestinians find no clear difference in support for terrorism as a means to achieve political ends between the most and least educated.


Data on which all this relies are hardly perfect: Terrorists don't fill out elaborate questionnaires. Better-off, better-educated individuals could be motivated if not by their own circumstances, then by the conditions of their impoverished countrymen. Interviews of terrorists in Pakistan by Harvard terrorism scholar Jessica Stern reveal recruiters there found the poorest neighborhoods to be the most fertile ground, particularly among those who feel Muslims are humiliated by the West. She says Mr. Krueger and like-minded scholars don't yet have enough evidence to prove anything. "We are only just beginning to do really serious large studies in terrorism," she says.

But the conventional wisdom that poverty breeds terrorism is backed by surprisingly little hard evidence. "The evidence is nearly unanimous in rejecting either material deprivation or inadequate education as an important cause of support for terrorism or of participation in terrorist activities," Mr. Krueger asserts. The 9/11 Commission stated flatly: Terrorism is not caused by poverty.

So what is the cause? Suppression of civil liberties and political rights, Mr. Krueger hypothesizes. "When nonviolent means of protest are curtailed," he says, "malcontents appear to be more likely to turn to terrorist tactics."

Which -- ironically, given that Mr. Krueger is no fan of the president's actual policies at home or abroad -- is close to Mr. Bush's rhetoric: "Liberty has got the capacity to change enemies into allies."

Write to David Wessel at capital@wsj.com, or chat with him about this column in his online forum.

Replies

297
Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#202
I'm not going to falsely state that oppression is not a root cause of terrorism, and you are not going to admit it's a catalyst without at least 4 paragraphs of splitting hairs on different definitions of "catalyist".

Punchin' out.

Glad you?re punchin? out and yet still providing me with the opportunity to knock you over the head with this one, yet again???..

?..all together now (in chorus with all my little internet friends)?..

?Political oppression is not necessarily a cataylist.?

One more time!..........

?Political oppression is not necessarily a cataylist.?

I just love a sing-a-long.



And now we can get down to an intelligent discussion regarding terrorism, it?s root causes, and presumably strategies to combat terrorism by addressing its root causes.
savvytangerine avatar
Beach Fanatic
#204
Uncle Timmy! Uncle Timmy! What are we going to sing next? :bow:
Mango avatar
SoWal Insider
#205
Again, I'm not conceding a damn thing, even if the other internet people agree with you. The fact that you have more free time to post more than I do doesn't mean you can make a compelling argument. Regardless, you sure seem to care how many internet people agree with you. That's important to you, isn't it?

Splain this then:

6th Gen: 802 posts since 8/22/05 Avg. post count 1.1 a day
Timmy: 822 posts since 11/15/04 post count .82 a day

:scratch:
kathydwells avatar
Darlene is my middle name, not my nickname
#206
Splain this then:

6th Gen: 802 posts since 8/22/05 Avg. post count 1.1 a day
Timmy: 822 posts since 11/15/04 post count .82 a day

:scratch:

Mangy, the sleuth. :funn: :clap: :wave:
Cheering472 avatar
SoWal Insider
#207
That's great :floor: Foiled again!!
Mango avatar
SoWal Insider
#208
Mangy, the sleuth. :funn: :clap: :wave:

:lol: I am just a little internet peep. :wave:
Gypsea avatar
Beach Fanatic
#209
Good going Mangy ~ gotta keep em honest!
Jdarg avatar
SoWal Expert
#210
Splain this then:

6th Gen: 802 posts since 8/22/05 Avg. post count 1.1 a day
Timmy: 822 posts since 11/15/04 post count .82 a day

:scratch:

Excellent!:floor:
Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#211
clarification: we are not internet people. we are mofo sowal wenches. that is all.
kathydwells avatar
Darlene is my middle name, not my nickname
#212
clarification: we are not internet people. we are mofo sowal wenches. that is all.

:funn: You tell 'em Tootsie!!!!
Cheering472 avatar
SoWal Insider
#213
clarification: we are not internet people. we are mofo sowal wenches. that is all.

I know! I hate being referred to as internet people. He talks about us like we aren't right here. More than that, HE's on the internet when he calls us this. :idontno:
Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#214
Splain this then:

6th Gen: 802 posts since 8/22/05 Avg. post count 1.1 a day
Timmy: 822 posts since 11/15/04 post count .82 a day

:scratch:

Hilarious! But far too logical. You need to spice it up with various taunts, personal slams, and wild generalizations to really make an effect on 6thGen.

Oh, that or just beat him over the head with it, like 10 or 20 times!
Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#215
I share the general indignation regarding 6thGen?s performance but would anybody like to return to the subject at hand?

Chickpea, I would like to know your thoughts. Skunkape?

I think I?m going to stick with my earlier assessment that Terrorism, per se, is probably too broad a term to generate any identifiable ?root cause?.


A better way to look at the issue is by asking the following questions:

What is the root cause of Palestinian terrorism?

What is the root cause of terrorism in support of a Nationalist separatism movement?
What is the root cause of social-revolutionary terrorism in Latin America?
What is the root cause of terrorism by organized crime?
What is the root cause of state sponsored terrorism?
Etc.

Anyone disagree with this approach?
30A Skunkape avatar
Skunky
#216
I'm sticking to my theory in post #99.
SON avatar
Beach Lover
#217
Princeton Economist Says
Lack of Civil Liberties, Not
Poverty, Breeds Terrorism

I would say that the two are not mutually exclusive
Poverty has been here since man
Civil liberties Have progressed historically but future results are not guaranteed by past performance, your results may vary, etc.

We retort, you deride
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#218
Uncle Timmy! Uncle Timmy! What are we going to sing next? :bow:

Hey, what kind of cool-aide are you guys serving today?
SON avatar
Beach Lover
#219
Maybe it should be the "offical beverage"
Is there a weekly, monthly, meeting of Sowal forum riders anywhere ?
An annual Masked ball ?
rapunzel avatar
Beach Fanatic
#220
Historically, the root cause of terrorism is always the same...passion for a cause + greatly disproportionate resources that makes it impossible to fight for the cause in a conventional manner = terrorism.

With the occasional exception of state-sponsored terrorism that is employed as a tactic in a broader campaign and is inspired by true terrorism but lacks the idealism and passion. Perhaps instead of terrorism, we should call it malignant desperationism. Then, perhaps, when we asked what makes a person, a group, malignantly desperate we could gain some insight.

Approaching the topic from a historical perspective, though, I often wonder what caused the shift in the late 20th century away from the highly effective methods of peaceful resistance and nonviolent civil disobedience and toward the much less effective tactic of terrorism. I believe the shift occurred in the 70's, and it seemed to be a sudden seismic shift that began in the Middle East but was taken up by all resistance groups by the 80's and continuing through today.
Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#221
Historically, the root cause of terrorism is always the same...passion for a cause + greatly disproportionate resources that makes it impossible to fight for the cause in a conventional manner = terrorism.

With the occasional exception of state-sponsored terrorism that is employed as a tactic in a broader campaign and is inspired by true terrorism but lacks the idealism and passion. Perhaps instead of terrorism, we should call it malignant desperationism. Then, perhaps, when we asked what makes a person, a group, malignantly desperate we could gain some insight.

Approaching the topic from a historical perspective, though, I often wonder what caused the shift in the late 20th century away from the highly effective methods of peaceful resistance and nonviolent civil disobedience and toward the much less effective tactic of terrorism. I believe the shift occurred in the 70's, and it seemed to be a sudden seismic shift that began in the Middle East but was taken up by all resistance groups by the 80's and continuing through today.

I like your theory.


To answer your question, I think that the shift that we saw in 20th century is largely attributable to the ?technology of terrorism?.

Clearly, passionate causes fighting a disproportionate struggle against powerful adversaries has always been part of human history.

But until there were commercial aircraft to target, or sophisticated high explosive devices and timing mechanisms ? it was kind of hard to practice terrorism as we know it.

Just look at bin Laden ? he wouldn?t be very effective without his cell phones, access to electronic banking etc.
Kurt avatar
Admin
#222
How does the song go? Terrorism is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#223
Although the causes for which the terrorists fight, may not be worthy causes in our opinion, they do have a purpose, an end result in mind. Last night I had dinner with a very young Marine who has spent 7 months in Iraq. His job is to prepare bombs with fuses and detonators to get them ready for action. He says that all he wants to do is go blow sh_t up. The military trains these young men in such ways that when coupled with all of the testosterone of these men, they are not left with fighting for a cause. They simple get pumped up about killing people and blowing sh_t up.

Terrorism, or just blowing sh_t up and killing because someone tell you to do so, are two different things, but I sort of find terrorism to be the least scary of the two.

Edited

Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#224
Terrorism is the dark side of technology. Einstein had something to say about this.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#226
Terrorism is the dark side of technology. Einstein had something to say about this.
What is that Einstein quote? Something about World War III being fought with sticks and stones. I think Ted Kaczynski was also trying to alert people to the dangers of technology. Ever read his manifesto? It is rather interesting.

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