Worry!

A gift for you, Uncle Timmy. A friend (a Christian friend, I might add) just sent me this. (For what it's worth, I believe Old Testament law was specific to the Israelites within a specific time period, unless I need a good reason to smite my neighbor.)

Makes sense to me, but why do most all Christians keep refering to so many of the Books of the Old Testament, such as the origins of the Earth and the 10 Commandments?

Along those same lines, in Exodus, God claims to be a jealous God. Why would such a power, which created the Universe, have jealousy? Is God jealous of other Gods? Seems to be, but again, by definition, God is THE supreme being, therefore there cannot be other Gods. (my preachers never could answer this one.)

He is jealous of the attention that man gives to other things. Hence the commandment about idols. According to the Bible, (and you are talking about the Bible, so I assume it's okay for me to talk about it, too!) God created man to be in relationship with him. The flip side of that is what Pascal called the "God-shaped hole" in his heart. Man tries to fill that hole with things that aren't God, and it just doesn't work.

War and laws about hair aside, the Old Testament is about God creating man to walk with him, man turning away, and God chasing man all over the middle east, wooing him back:

Here's one for you, if God created everything, what created God? If we take the question as a truth, "God created everything," that would mean that God created God, and that sounds rather silly, doesn't it?
Yes, it does sound silly, and I don't have an answer at all for that!

Let's get past that question and ask, if God is so infinitely powerful, why was God so bored that God created plants and animals? Surely, such a power couldn't get bored. :scratch:
Although I have heard that God was lonely or bored, I don't personally hold to that for the same reason that you're questioning it. Sounds kind of dumb. Maybe this sounds dumb, too: I think he did it out of love. I mentioned that I've become a Calvinist out of my rebellion toward the Baptist church. I think that he created us so that he could love us, knowing that we would turn away from him and that he would have to chase us and ultimately die for us. I see the Bible as a great big love story.

These are serious questions. My preachers hated to see me coming.
They didn't know what they were missing. My pastor would love you.


Makes sense to me, but why do most all Christians keep refering to so many of the Books of the Old Testament, such as the origins of the Earth and the 10 Commandments?
It depends on what you're talking about. If you're asking about origins and law, the Old Testament talks more about that. The New Testament is about redemption, salvation, and sanctification. It's actually what I hear the most on any given Sunday.

Makes sense to me, but why do most all Christians keep refering to so many of the Books of the Old Testament, such as the origins of the Earth and the 10 Commandments?
It depends on what you're talking about. If you're asking about origins and law, the Old Testament talks more about that. The New Testament is about redemption, salvation, and sanctification. It's actually what I hear the most on any given Sunday.

Right, but all of the new testament is based on the laws of the Old Testament, and without the Old Testament, there wouldn't be a New Testament, right?

The flip side of that is what Pascal called the "God-shaped hole" in his heart. Man tries to fill that hole with things that aren't God, and it just doesn't work.

Hindus have been talking about this for a few thousand years before the beginnings of Christianity. You guys mentioned Einstein and religion, earlier. Interesting, because Einstein was brought up in a discussion of religion I was having a few days ago. It was noted that Einstein's Theory of Relativity is actually a scientific theory of what Hindus have known for thousands of years, but never put into such terms.

Right, but all of the new testament is based on the laws of the Old Testament, and without the Old Testament, there wouldn't be a New Testament, right?

Nutshell version, since I have to actually be at church in a few hours: The OT was the law--the book of church order. The Israelites who didn't aboandon God altogether became so preoccupied with following the letter of the law that they threw out the baby with the bathwater. They forgot about the love. (Sound familiar?)

When Jesus showed up, (not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it) he was all about reminding the Jewish leaders about the spirit of the law. In his words, he summed up all of the law and the prophets (the OT) into two commandments: 1) Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. 2) The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.

Everything should fall in line with that. If you look through the Big Ten, you'll notice that the first 4 have to do with loving God, and the other 6 with loving others.

As much as I'm enjoying this, I think I just saw Noah and his ark in the grain of my wood floor. It's really time for me to sleep!

Hindus have been talking about this for a few thousand years before the beginnings of Christianity. You guys mentioned Einstein and religion, earlier. Interesting, because Einstein was brought up a few days ago in a discussion of religion I was having a few days ago. It was noted that Einstein's Theory of Relativity is actually a scientific theory of what Hindus have known for thousands of years, but never put into such terms.

General revelation. It's a beautiful thing. And so are you. G'night!

Everything should fall in line with that. If you look through the Big Ten, you'll notice that the first 4 have to do with loving God, and the other 6 with loving others.

As much as I'm enjoying this, I think I just saw Noah and his ark in the grain of my wood floor. It's really time for me to sleep!

I hear you on the Golden Rule, but even Barb brought up the ten commandments earlier. I often hear others doing it too.

As for Noah, didn't he get drunk on wine after the arc was grounded, and got so pissed off at his own child for trying to cover him while he was lying drunk and naked in his tent?

I hear you on the Golden Rule, but even Barb brought up the ten commandments earlier. I often hear others doing it too.

Actually, that one's a little bit different, ("Do unto others as you would have them do unto you") but it still falls in the spirit of the love your neighbor as yourself commandment.

You're obviously trying to make a point, and it's going right over my head. I'm sorry...

As for Noah, didn't he get drunk on wine after the ark was grounded, and got so pissed off at his own child for trying to cover him while he was lying drunk and naked in his tent?

Heck yes he did. That's really one of the great things about the OT stories. They're full of failures from the get-go. Adam and Eve screwed us all over. Cain murdered his brother--they had the entire world to hang out in, but it wasn't big enough for the both of 'em. Noah was a pissy, whiny drunk. Abraham (who was also the father of Mohammed) was a bullheaded liar and schemer, and his grandson Jacob was even worse. Jacob's son, Joseph, was an arrogant pain in the butt to the degree that his brothers (who liked to circumcise their full-grown neighbors out of spite) sold him in the hope that he would be murdered. David (who was called "the man after God's own heart") was a philanderer who impregnated the wife of one of his most faithful officers, so he made sure that officer was killed in battle before he got home and noticed how pudgy his wife had gotten. His son Solomon wasn't any better.

There's this long list of liars and manipulators and murderers and prostitutes, and they are all the ancestors of Jesus. Like I said, it's a story about love. We can hardly be any worse than these "saints," and God is still crazy about us.

Right, but all of the new testament is based on the laws of the Old Testament, and without the Old Testament, there wouldn't be a New Testament, right?

I'll chime back in here because I believe this is the problem between Christianity and many present day Churches. I think one of the more enlightening passages is from Paul about God giving us the law so that he could show us that we could not follow the law. The law being the Torah (old Testament), the Gospels and then the Wisdom Books (Apostolic teachings) are truly three different teachings. Do they build off each other definitely but the present day sermons are still stuck in the law? Tell us what we should and should not do, don't tell me what I should be, that's too scary. The Old Testament is in place to serve a VERY important function. To give us boundaries. Have those boundaries changed in the past 4,000 years definitely, I am having pork tonight and I don't think I am going to hell. Then God says, hey this isn't working so I'll come on down and show the Jews that they are misssing a big piece of the puzzle.

This led to the Gospels, which are truly mind blowing for any overly conservative group if they took the time to truly understand them. The problem is they can be somewhat complex and Jesus knew that when he was teaching them to the apostles and they still didn't get it. Don't forget that some of the apostles came from the most educated backgrounds back then. That's why they were teachings and parables about the way, not about following Jesus, but being like Jesus. This is where I go back to my other post and what I think many miss in "true" Christianity, the point is not to cast out and seperate people into groups (i.e. Catholic, to Baptist), it is to bring people together. If you look at who Jesus brought into the fold, it was not the so-called "religious" people as they were worshipping their own idols.

Finally, the wisdom books primarily from Paul a Phoenician who was the worst of the worst. He killed Christians in the name of God before the road to Damascus conversion. Then, he converted and was called upon to dvelop churches in many different areas, and that is what his letters were, responses to questions from Corinth, Rome, Ephesus, etc. Did his answers change over time yes, but we DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS ASKED. All we have are the responses. It's almost like a one sided phone conversation, but not quite as bad.

A couple of points I want to add. It is impossible to literally interpret any book as you will always bring your own background, prejudice, education, etc. to your understanding of any book. A quick example I'll choose is Physics. I am a Scientist by training and if I read a Physics book there is a high probability that I will understand certain sections better than someone who is not a scientist. Am I physicist, no, but I still have a different background and training than a non-scientist. So, if you are in a church and they are teaching literal translations, run! If you're wondering how I think people get a better understanding then if they aren't theologians, I would offer up Contemplative Prayer, and in other religions its called meditation so yes, I believe other religions have many of these ideas figured out better than New World Christians.

In regards to a bored God, I'll offer this, why does any parent have children. For the heartache we all caused growing up. For the nursing home care we want them to provide to us later. Its probably for love, and I believe that was the purpose of God coming down in Jesus, to show us that although we should do the right things, we weren't so instead of a spanking or time out, we got an example to follow. Once again note that I did not say worship.

I'll add more later, but this is a more mystical interpretation of Christianity and the one that I personally follow. I would ask one question back regarding evolution. What is the statistical possibility that in the short amount of time that the Universe has been created, a few billion years or so that we would have developed from elements to human beings? And a second question, where did those original elements come from that developed into the primordial ooze?

By the way, I also believe things have evolved over time, and do not believe that the world was created in seven days. So, I can hold both of those things together.

Finally, I agree in the Old Testament Commandment explanation by NoHall. When Jesus came he explained it was only really two that were divided into Ten for the purpose of giving order to a Crazy world!

Have ya'll heard that John Mayer song, Worry? Me likey a lot. All this time I was thinkin' it was Johnny Lang.

Did I hear someone mention "Barb"? Well, I am here, praise God!!!

Just signed on to say "hello" and I/we found a place somewhere between Destin and Pensacola. We will be very busy settling in this coming week.

Thanks for your prayers. It's amazing how things work out when people pray instead of worry.

where did those original elements come from that developed into the primordial ooze?

Find the answer to my question, "If God made everything, who/what made God?" and you will know the answer to your question.

My burning question has always been; If Adam and Eve birthed Cain and Abel and Cain killed Abel because he wanted to have babies with his own twin sister as opposed to letting Abel as God commanded, on which side of the aisle did Adam and Eve sit? Or, are we all just merely kin of the incestuously born bastard Enoch?

Most likely. Go Titans...Go Titans...Go Titans ;-)

Did I hear someone mention "Barb"? Well, I am here, praise God!!!

Just signed on to say "hello" and I/we found a place somewhere between Destin and Pensacola. We will be very busy settling in this coming week.

Thanks for your prayers. It's amazing how things work out when people pray instead of worry.

I was worried that you were worrying. Glad you found a place.

I was worried that you were worrying. Glad you found a place.

Thanks. I was about to worry, but then realized I was making the devil happy by doing that, so, I stopped it right away and got the victory!!!

Most likely. Go Titans...Go Titans...Go Titans ;-)

Whoooo loves Chris Brown?!!!! ;-)

Ahhh, I love beating the Jags.

Sorry if you felt like you were crucified, oops

Oh, no problem...I have been crucified with Christ, so it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me -- and the life I now live in the flesh...I live by faith in the One who loved me and gave Himself for me.


Oh, BTW...that is very scriptural!!!

Whoooo loves Chris Brown?!!!! ;-)

Ahhh, I love beating the Jags.

Grayt day for the Titans. I hope they continue to improve!!

I worry that this thread will never end.

Eternal life or eternal damnation?;-) (Regarding the thread, that is...)

I worry that this thread will never end.

Amen Sista!!!!!

Judge oneself or others?