Just dont know what to say..........

As I have always believed; The Public School system is the enemy here.........

Very, very sad.......

After being in the public school system for 7 years as teacher I do agree with you Biff. It is a shame the way some schools are run (or not run b/c of parents, kids, personal beliefs, politics)

:roll:


Boulder High students walk out during Pledge, recite own version



BOULDER, Colo.?About 50 Boulder High School students walked out of class Thursday to protest the daily reading of the Pledge of Allegiance and recited their own version, omitting "one nation, under God."
The students say the phrase violates the constitutional separation of church and state.
They also say the daily reading of the pledge over the school public address system at the start of the second class takes away from education time and is ignored or mocked by some students.
A state law passed in 2004 requires schools to offer the opportunity to recite the pledge each day but does not require students to participate.
The protesting students, members of the Student Worker Club, want administrators to hold the pledge reading in the auditorium during each of the school's two lunch periods for any students who want to participate.
Otherwise, they said, they plan to walk out each Thursday when the pledge is read and recite their version, which omits the reference to God and adds allegiance to constitutional rights, diversity and freedom, among other things.
"Boulder High has a highly diverse population, not all of whom believe in God, or one God," said Emma Martens, a senior and president of the club, which has about a dozen members.
"We didn't think it was fair for the whole school to have to listen to it. It's almost religious oppression," she said.
Principal Bud Jenkins told the Camera newspaper on its Web site Thursday the pledge will not be moved, but added he was proud of the students for standing up for their beliefs.
It was not immediately clear what discipline, if any, the protesting students would face. ???

These kids don't want the Pledge of Allegiance banned, they want it to be at a time and location where 1) participation is voluntary 2) those participating will give it the respect and focus it deserves.

People coming from a majority Christian background or community may not understand just how uncomfortable, or even blasphemous it feels to be forced to participate in other's religious traditions.

The "under God" portion of the pledge that is so devisive was added in the 50s as a dig at the "godless" commies, not because it was an integral part.

These kids don't want the Pledge of Allegiance banned, they want it to be at a time and location where 1) participation is voluntary 2) those participating will give it the respect and focus it deserves.

People coming from a majority Christian background or community may not understand just how uncomfortable, or even blasphemous it feels to be forced to participate in other's religious traditions.

The "under God" portion of the pledge that is so devisive was added in the 50s as a dig at the "godless" commies, not because it was an integral part.

Thanks for having the courage for saying what I wanted to say. In our area, many times Christianity is not the majority. We teach our kids to be more open minded, respectful & inclusive of others' religious beliefs.

Thanks for having the courage for saying what I wanted to say. In our area, many times Christianity is not the majority. We teach our kids to be more open minded, respectful & inclusive of others' religious beliefs.

Amen to that.;-)

We encourage our kids to say the Pledge, and we say it ourselves, but we don't believe that it should be a mandatory requirement for all people in the U.S. Remember, there are many U.S. citizens that are not Christian.

We don't have a national religion. Where does it say that to be a US citizen, you have to be Christian?

These kids don't want the Pledge of Allegiance banned, they want it to be at a time and location where 1) participation is voluntary 2) those participating will give it the respect and focus it deserves.

People coming from a majority Christian background or community may not understand just how uncomfortable, or even blasphemous it feels to be forced to participate in other's religious traditions.

The "under God" portion of the pledge that is so devisive was added in the 50s as a dig at the "godless" commies, not because it was an integral part.

Very interesting. I never realized that was an add on. Seems easy enough to fix.

Thanks for having the courage for saying what I wanted to say. In our area, many times Christianity is not the majority. We teach our kids to be more open minded, respectful & inclusive of others' religious beliefs.

amen and hallelluia!

this year, in my little one's classroom, the teacher is focusing on history of america and florida. they are making flags and learning the pledge of allegiance (3-6 year olds). all children need to be educated on american traditions - surely. But, the teacher is by no means making the pledge something they will do as part of their school day (as we did growing up). however they will learn about the pledge, its words and the correct way to say it, facing the flag, etc. and I think this is appropriate.

who knew the Pledge has such a history... the pledge was first introduced by a company selling american flags to schools - it was a marketing campaign!

"under God" was first added and adopted by the Knights of Columbus [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance[/ame]

all very interesting.

amen and hallelluia!

I'm not looking forward to dealing with these religious issues in public school, especially in the south!

But remember, it is our differences that make us special. ;-) The religous issue is just one issue our kids will encounter in school and in the real grownup world. Public school is one big blender of cultural, social, economic, political, racial, educational, and religous issues, which to me is a good thing. I think it is essential for kids to see these differences at a young age, when they are sponges and are easily accepting new ideas and concepts.

Even after a month or so of kindergarten, Kate has told me some sad stories about a few kids in her class with some unfortunate circumstances. She seems to want to be kind to them and help them, and I am proud of her. I went to private school my entire life, and never knew anybody that was less than fortunate until I went to college (and was blown away, but that's another story) so I am happy she is learning how to be sensitive to others less fortunate at a younger age than I did.

Actually, the key here is really not religion. It is about excluding another group of people, thinking that the group being excluded are "lesser" people, which makes the ones doing the excluding feel powerful and big. I don't think Jesus had any of this sheeit in mind when he was telling people to love their neighbor!

These kids don't want the Pledge of Allegiance banned, they want it to be at a time and location where 1) participation is voluntary 2) those participating will give it the respect and focus it deserves.

People coming from a majority Christian background or community may not understand just how uncomfortable, or even blasphemous it feels to be forced to participate in other's religious traditions.

The "under God" portion of the pledge that is so devisive was added in the 50s as a dig at the "godless" commies, not because it was an integral part.

Agreed!

:scratch: Hmmm...I wonder what this group of kids would do if they were in Texas where schools also pledge allegiance to the Texas flag.

.

They do? Does it mention God too? How does it go?

Amen to that.;-)

We encourage our kids to say the Pledge, and we say it ourselves, but we don't believe that it should be a mandatory requirement for all people in the U.S. Remember, there are many U.S. citizens that are not Christian.

We don't have a national religion. Where does it say that to be a US citizen, you have to be Christian?

I'm a Christian, and I don't think that the "under God" part is right. I'm an individual under God, which has nothing to do for my allegiance to the republic for which the flag stands.

But that republic was founded on freedom of religion (among other things,) not freedom from religion. I don't agree in removing religion from school--any religion, even the ones that say there is no god.

The more the government meddles, the more I would like to see education privatized. The tug-of-war is driving me up the wall.

They do? Does it mention God too? How does it go?

Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible. (or something very close to that) It was changed a bit this year.

.

No where in the Pledge does it say "Christian God". A majority of religions believe in some kind of "God", and almost 90% of our country have some form of religious affiliation, so what's the big deal here.

"Boulder High has a highly diverse population, not all of whom believe in God, or one God," said Emma Martens, a senior and president of the club, which has about a dozen members."

If you're an atheist, then you can believe that this is one nation under you're own power (since in essence they believe they are the "god" of themselves) and if you're a polytheist, pick a God when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.

I think the Pledge of Allegiance should be recited. Not necessarily everyday, but it should be in schools as a reminder of what the basic underlying principles of what this country was founded on and a respect for the flag and the people who died protecting our liberties.

If you don't want to recite the portion "One nation, under God", the beauty of living in this country is you don't have to utter that portion.

Walking out of the classroom during the Pledge is childish, and the Pledge the Boulder kids want to recite seems rather ridiculous, not to mention that perhaps instead of spending so much time on this issue, go back and take basic grammer lessons..........

"I pledge allegiance to the flag and my constitutional rights with which it comes. And to the diversity, in which our nation stands, one nation, part of one planet, with liberty, freedom, choice and justice for all."

Part of one planet?

Maybe they should send these kids to some countries where political and religious rights are repressed, do an exchange with youth their age trying desperately to come to this country to experience the liberties they have.

I am betting the exchange students would take great pride in reciting the pledge exactly the way it is now.

.....Well stated...... The more involved Gov. becomes.............. I believe more and more will lean towards privatization........

I'm a Christian, and I don't think that the "under God" part is right. I'm an individual under God, which has nothing to do for my allegiance to the republic for which the flag stands.

But that republic was founded on freedom of religion (among other things,) not freedom from religion. I don't agree in removing religion from school--any religion, even the ones that say there is no god.

The more the government meddles, the more I would like to see education privatized. The tug-of-war is driving me up the wall.

I'm a Christian, and I don't think that the "under God" part is right. I'm an individual under God, which has nothing to do for my allegiance to the republic for which the flag stands.

But that republic was founded on freedom of religion (among other things,) not freedom from religion. I don't agree in removing religion from school--any religion, even the ones that say there is no god.

The more the government meddles, the more I would like to see education privatized. The tug-of-war is driving me up the wall.

you are so right. the government meddles because society and/or parents are pushing for this and that. lord help if we try to change anything to make it fair for everyone. we certainly should teach about religions if we intend for our children to have a good knowledge of their world. even educational discussion on personal religion and God is healthy in a well rounded educational environment. but actual recitation of anything religious can be done at home, with family, in their chosen community organizations, etc. why would prayer or a pledge referring to God belong in school? the pledge was changed to insert God (by a religious group). if the pledge is so important to have in school, why can't it be changed back to its original or modified version?

But remember, it is our differences that make us special. ;-)

Actually, the key here is really not religion. It is about excluding another group of people, thinking that the group being excluded are "lesser" people, which makes the ones doing the excluding feel powerful and big. I don't think Jesus had any of this sheeit in mind when he was telling people to love their neighbor!

very well stated jdarg. and I agree that student diversity that often comes with public schools (even in sowal) is a wonderful thing. I think children find that they are much more alike than not, though their situations may differ greatly. education in a diverse setting is part of learning about community, people, society, life, etc. I do look forward to this part. It's a certain type of parent and/or educator I don't look forward to knowing, the ones who expect faith-based values and beliefs to be reflected in curriculum, those who use the bible to argue against curriculum content (science, sex ed) or a school sponsored event, etc. I would rather not have to deal with controversial religious-based school issues. It's all part of the experience of diversity I suppose.

very well stated jdarg. and I agree that student diversity that often comes with public schools (even in sowal) is a wonderful thing. I think children find that they are much more alike than not, though their situations may differ greatly. education in a diverse setting is part of learning about community, people, society, life, etc. I do look forward to this part. It's a certain type of parent and/or educator I don't look forward to knowing, the ones who expect faith-based values and beliefs to be reflected in curriculum, those who use the bible to argue against curriculum content (science, sex ed) or a school sponsored event, etc. I would rather not have to deal with controversial religious-based school issues. It's all part of the experience of diversity I suppose.

Sadly, we are dealing with this now at the high school. The play chosen for the drama class has been pulled for "review", since somebody somewhere had a problem with the seance scene and ghosts.:roll: Now the play will go through a faculty review, then to the superintendent. I am fairly that the play will be approved, but not in time for the kids to rehearse and prepare.

I definitely do not enjoy this part of public school. I don't think it is just a public school phenomenon though- you will always have parents that will only see the small picture (what they want for their child only) and not see the big picture.

Sometimes I think that a Christian school would go over big time around here.

Sadly, we are dealing with this now at the high school. The play chosen for the drama class has been pulled for "review", since somebody somewhere had a problem with the seance scene and ghosts.:roll: Now the play will go through a faculty review, then to the superintendent. I am fairly that the play will be approved, but not in time for the kids to rehearse and prepare.

I definitely do not enjoy this part of public school. I don't think it is just a public school phenomenon though- you will always have parents that will only see the small picture (what they want for their child only) and not see the big picture.

Sometimes I think that a Christian school would go over big time around here.

I swear, it just never ends, does it.

Speaking for myself, I have to watch everything I say or it's offensive to someone somewhere. I volunteer for a very large and inclusive Methodist church. We are so careful of pizzing somebody off in our PR material, but it still happens no matter what. I get sick of it. If everything is dissected, then yes, there's always something offensive.

Sadly, we are dealing with this now at the high school. The play chosen for the drama class has been pulled for "review", since somebody somewhere had a problem with the seance scene and ghosts.:roll: Now the play will go through a faculty review, then to the superintendent. I am fairly that the play will be approved, but not in time for the kids to rehearse and prepare.

I definitely do not enjoy this part of public school. I don't think it is just a public school phenomenon though- you will always have parents that will only see the small picture (what they want for their child only) and not see the big picture.

Sometimes I think that a Christian school would go over big time around here.

no its not just public school, but private schools can tell the parent to take it or leave it, and the parents have the option to leave the school to find a more "appropriate" setting for their child. I've seen this in our little school. only once though - when one family had a problem with several issues (all bible-based complaints/arguments). As it turned out, that family really did not belong in the montessori education program - when they realized this they moved on - but they did learn a few things, including that halloween wasn't evil and so now their family participates in halloween within the community every year. typically, parents do their homework before paying for private school, and they know if the environment/curriculum/etc is appropriate for their child and family.

I do wish St Rita had a school from elementary thru highschool. I would sign up today. I can deal with religion in the school when its meant to be there.

no its not just public school, but private schools can tell the parent to take it or leave it, and the parents have the option to leave the school to find a more "appropriate" setting for their child. I've seen this in our little school. only once though. typically, parents do their homework before paying for private school, and they know if the environment/curriculum/etc is appropriate for their child and family.

In Louisville, the non-parochial and non-religous private schools would only tell parents to take a hike if they weren't major $$ contributors. The families that contributed big dollars had lots of influence. You have to remember too that in larger communities, people send their kids to private school for reasons other than a good education- more of as protection against the masses and the false sense of security of having their kids with the other "right" kids, also the status symbol factor. Then, once they are enrolled, they worry about things like curriculum and environment. Thankfully, SoWal isn't large enough for the status symbol private school enrollments to be an issue.

In Louisville, the non-parochial and non-religous private schools would only tell parents to take a hike if they weren't major $$ contributors. The families that contributed big dollars had lots of influence. You have to remember too that in larger communities, people send their kids to private school for reasons other than a good education- more of as protection against the masses and the false sense of security of having their kids with the other "right" kids, also the status symbol factor. Then, once they are enrolled, they worry about things like curriculum and environment. Thankfully, SoWal isn't large enough for the status symbol private school enrollments to be an issue.

I've never lived in a huge city, but I've heard in some places you have no real choice other than private education for your children, due to poor public school systems. which is really ashame. How do people afford private education, K-12, especially when they have more than one child? We are very fortunate in sowal - all good schools from my experience, and from what I know and hear about.

I've never lived in a huge city, but I've heard in some places you have no real choice other than private education for your children, due to poor public school systems. which is really ashame. How do people afford private education, K-12, especially when they have more than one child? We are very fortunate in sowal - all good schools from my experience, and from what I know and hear about.

As I used to say...private school tuition is a form of birth control.

I've never lived in a huge city, but I've heard in some places you have no real choice other than private education for your children, due to poor public school systems. which is really ashame. How do people afford private education, K-12, especially when they have more than one child? We are very fortunate in sowal - all good schools from my experience, and from what I know and hear about.

As I used to say...private school tuition is a form of birth control.

Wow, too bad. Really sort of shocking to me.:shock:
I don't know what we would've done if our only option had been private schools. Our public schools (suburban, not Chicago) are some of the best & most competitive in the nation. One reason we chose to move here. Most of the private schools are slowly being closed down.

Thank you MANGY!!!! Well PUT

No where in the Pledge does it say "Christian God". A majority of religions believe in some kind of "God", and almost 90% of our country have some form of religious affiliation, so what's the big deal here.

"Boulder High has a highly diverse population, not all of whom believe in God, or one God," said Emma Martens, a senior and president of the club, which has about a dozen members."

If you're an atheist, then you can believe that this is one nation under you're own power (since in essence they believe they are the "god" of themselves) and if you're a polytheist, pick a God when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.

I think the Pledge of Allegiance should be recited. Not necessarily everyday, but it should be in schools as a reminder of what the basic underlying principles of what this country was founded on and a respect for the flag and the people who died protecting our liberties.

If you don't want to recite the portion "One nation, under God", the beauty of living in this country is you don't have to utter that portion.

Walking out of the classroom during the Pledge is childish, and the Pledge the Boulder kids want to recite seems rather ridiculous, not to mention that perhaps instead of spending so much time on this issue, go back and take basic grammer lessons..........

"I pledge allegiance to the flag and my constitutional rights with which it comes. And to the diversity, in which our nation stands, one nation, part of one planet, with liberty, freedom, choice and justice for all."

Part of one planet?

Maybe they should send these kids to some countries where political and religious rights are repressed, do an exchange with youth their age trying desperately to come to this country to experience the liberties they have. AMEN SISTA

I am betting the exchange students would take great pride in reciting the pledge exactly the way it is now.

Sadly, we are dealing with this now at the high school. The play chosen for the drama class has been pulled for "review", since somebody somewhere had a problem with the seance scene and ghosts.:roll: Now the play will go through a faculty review, then to the superintendent. I am fairly that the play will be approved, but not in time for the kids to rehearse and prepare.

I definitely do not enjoy this part of public school. I don't think it is just a public school phenomenon though- you will always have parents that will only see the small picture (what they want for their child only) and not see the big picture.

Sometimes I think that a Christian school would go over big time around here.

;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)


It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...


And yes;

The words "under God" were added in 1954 by then President Eisenhower, who stated at the time, "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

It's not as simple as just "substituting your God" into the "under God" part or not saying it. For example, Jehovah's Witnesses consider the flag salute to be idolatry. I'd be all for deleting the "under God" part so that you are truly building unity and solidarity by pledging allegiance to a non-religious United States.

I think people (especially school parents) are WAY too overly sensitive and meddlesome (school has their kids for 6-7 hours, they have them the rest of the day and on weekends - plenty of time to teach them opposing viewpoints etc.), but asking people to swear a daily oath of allegiance contrary to their religious beliefs is something truly offensive and worth discussing/fighting.

I think that when I was growing up, my schools did a pretty good job of striking a balance by using basic common sense. When a dad complained that my class celebrated X-mas, but not Hannukah, the school just said they'd celebrate Hannukah too if he provided someone to teach about it - so he sent in his Catholic wife, because he didn't have the time. We had "holiday" concerts, which also included some X-mas favorites. One of our Social Studies classes (although it was pre 9-11) taught us about Islam as part of a unit on understanding other cultures that also included the Kung! bushmen of the Kalahari. No parental complaints.

My non-Christian friend's take on it (after growing up in a predominantly Christian school/area w/ exposure to a variety of religions, she's a Buddhist, w/ Hindu parents):
"God seems like a generic enough term that I feel like only Atheists should find if offensive. I certainly don't. On the other hand, the pledge is part of that group of things that I find dumb because 99% of the time it's totally disingenuous - how often do you think a kid reciting the pledge thinks about what they're saying and what it means rather than just monotonously reciting a bunch of words?"