:roll:
Boulder High students walk out during Pledge, recite own version
BOULDER, Colo.—About 50 Boulder High School students walked out of class Thursday to protest the daily reading of the Pledge of Allegiance and recited their own version, omitting "one nation, under God."
The students say the phrase violates the constitutional separation of church and state.
They also say the daily reading of the pledge over the school public address system at the start of the second class takes away from education time and is ignored or mocked by some students.
A state law passed in 2004 requires schools to offer the opportunity to recite the pledge each day but does not require students to participate.
The protesting students, members of the Student Worker Club, want administrators to hold the pledge reading in the auditorium during each of the school's two lunch periods for any students who want to participate.
Otherwise, they said, they plan to walk out each Thursday when the pledge is read and recite their version, which omits the reference to God and adds allegiance to constitutional rights, diversity and freedom, among other things.
"Boulder High has a highly diverse population, not all of whom believe in God, or one God," said Emma Martens, a senior and president of the club, which has about a dozen members.
"We didn't think it was fair for the whole school to have to listen to it. It's almost religious oppression," she said.
Principal Bud Jenkins told the Camera newspaper on its Web site Thursday the pledge will not be moved, but added he was proud of the students for standing up for their beliefs.
It was not immediately clear what discipline, if any, the protesting students would face. ———
Replies
41Beach Fanatic
This is one of many reasons why our public school system is going to uniforms; uniformity among adolescents;
OR
Is it a Patriotic statement of homage to the founding fathers of our Country?
Another reason for me to go private .....
- Help prevent gangs from forming on campus
- Encourage discipline
- Help students resist peer pressure to buy trendy clothes
- Help identify intruders in the school
- Diminish economic and social barriers between students
- Increase a sense of belonging and school pride
- Improve attendance
OR
Is it a Patriotic statement of homage to the founding fathers of our Country?
Another reason for me to go private ..... It's not as simple as just "substituting your God" into the "under God" part or not saying it. For example, Jehovah's Witnesses consider the flag salute to be idolatry. I'd be all for deleting the "under God" part so that you are truly building unity and solidarity by pledging allegiance to a non-religious United States.
I think people (especially school parents) are WAY too overly sensitive and meddlesome (school has their kids for 6-7 hours, they have them the rest of the day and on weekends - plenty of time to teach them opposing viewpoints etc.), but asking people to swear a daily oath of allegiance contrary to their religious beliefs is something truly offensive and worth discussing/fighting.
I think that when I was growing up, my schools did a pretty good job of striking a balance by using basic common sense. When a dad complained that my class celebrated X-mas, but not Hannukah, the school just said they'd celebrate Hannukah too if he provided someone to teach about it - so he sent in his Catholic wife, because he didn't have the time. We had "holiday" concerts, which also included some X-mas favorites. One of our Social Studies classes (although it was pre 9-11) taught us about Islam as part of a unit on understanding other cultures that also included the Kung! bushmen of the Kalahari. No parental complaints.
My non-Christian friend's take on it (after growing up in a predominantly Christian school/area w/ exposure to a variety of religions, she's a Buddhist, w/ Hindu parents):
"God seems like a generic enough term that I feel like only Atheists should find if offensive. I certainly don't. On the other hand, the pledge is part of that group of things that I find dumb because 99% of the time it's totally disingenuous - how often do you think a kid reciting the pledge thinks about what they're saying and what it means rather than just monotonously reciting a bunch of words?"
SoWal Expert
Simply take out those 2 words and it's a patriotic statement of solidarity that noone can object to on religious grounds...........it's not like it's the first time the pledge has been changed!
Not sure how school uniforms fits into this, but the arguments listed seem reasonable to me, although in my limited experience, students just then use their accessories for status - jewelry, shoes, etc.
Not sure how school uniforms fits into this, but the arguments listed seem reasonable to me, although in my limited experience, students just then use their accessories for status - jewelry, shoes, etc.
Skunky
Meanwhile back at the asylum, 50% of the kids can't spell the word 'pledge' and 30% can't identify Colorado on a map. :roll:
SoWal Insider
school uniforms don't stop gang activity.
SoWal Insider
It's not as simple as just "substituting your God" into the "under God" part or not saying it. For example, Jehovah's Witnesses consider the flag salute to be idolatry. I'd be all for deleting the "under God" part so that you are truly building unity and solidarity by pledging allegiance to a non-religious United States.
My non-Christian friend's take on it (after growing up in a predominantly Christian school/area w/ exposure to a variety of religions, she's a Buddhist, w/ Hindu parents):
"God seems like a generic enough term that I feel like only Atheists should find if offensive. I certainly don't. On the other hand, the pledge is part of that group of things that I find dumb because 99% of the time it's totally disingenuous - how often do you think a kid reciting the pledge thinks about what they're saying and what it means rather than just monotonously reciting a bunch of words?"
If that's the case then, with JWitnesses, I think I will be putting a flag now outside my door with a sign that says " Pledge of Allegiance required before knocking". If they deny it, then another sign will be at the end of my walk that says" Americans died under that flag who gave you the right to come and pass out religious paraphenalia at doors" ;-)
I don't find the Pledge of Allegiance "dumb" Scooter. What else do we have for civilians to pay homage to in a group environment? and I disagree with you about it being a monotonous recitation of words in the schools.
I know when I was a kid, and I had a discussion about this with some friends this weekend, that we felt a sense of pride pledging the flag in the morning.
There are certainly good arguments made by the minority who want it removed in this country to delete the under God portion of the pledge, but at what point do we stop cowtowing to minority voice. Even if you change the pledge, at some point someone else is going to biotch about the wording anyway, and want equality, or someone other addition or deletion.
I just think there are more important issues to worry.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
hmmmm......formation of gang activity on campus is proven to diminish somewhat with school uniforms; not to mention concealing [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSETZsBW1wI"]YouTube - Dress Codes and Guns[/ame]... is a much greater risk to the student(s)...
Depending on what gangs and geographical area you are speaking of...........
Bottom line is that unsupervised children that have no or little parental Guidance/ no role models or no control over day to day activities or all three will do what ever their piers/gangsters want of them; unfortunately,,,,
Depending on what gangs and geographical area you are speaking of...........
Bottom line is that unsupervised children that have no or little parental Guidance/ no role models or no control over day to day activities or all three will do what ever their piers/gangsters want of them; unfortunately,,,,
school uniforms don't stop gang activity.
SoWal Expert
If that's the case then, with JWitnesses, I think I will be putting a flag now outside my door with a sign that says " Pledge of Allegiance required before knocking". If they deny it, then another sign will be at the end of my walk that says" Americans died under that flag who gave you the right to come and pass out religious paraphenalia at doors" ;-)
I don't find the Pledge of Allegiance "dumb" Scooter. What else do we have for civilians to pay homage to in a group environment? and I disagree with you about it being a monotonous recitation of words in the schools.
I know when I was a kid, and I had a discussion about this with some friends this weekend, that we felt a sense of pride pledging the flag in the morning.
There are certainly good arguments made by the minority who want it removed in this country to delete the under God portion of the pledge, but at what point do we stop cowtowing to minority voice. Even if you change the pledge, at some point someone else is going to biotch about the wording anyway, and want equality, or someone other addition or deletion.
I just think there are more important issues to worry.
My point was that it IS actually quite offensive to some religious groups, not just a minor preference issue. I don't want to eliminate the pledge, just change it to remove the offensive part - something people have been trying to remove since its addition in the 40s. Snip those words and we can then require it in schools every day.
The "dumb" comment wasn't mine, but a friend's quoted opinion. Her criticism wasn't of the pledge itself, but included it on a list of things that have become meaningless because they are done as a matter of habit, rather than passion or devotion.
Beach Fanatic
On a lighter note;
I'll bet Samoset and Squanto would be ECSTATIC to recite the Pledge of Allegiance if they were around today!!!;-)
I'll bet Samoset and Squanto would be ECSTATIC to recite the Pledge of Allegiance if they were around today!!!;-)
SoWal Insider
hmmmm......formation of gang activity on campus is proven to diminish somewhat with school uniforms; not to mention concealing weapons... is a much greater risk to the student(s)...
Depending on what gangs and geographical area you are speaking of...........
Bottom line is that unsupervised children that have no or little parental Guidance/ no role models or no control over day to day activities or all three will do what ever their piers/gangsters want of them; unfortunately,,,,
I agree, anything is worth a try.But geographically, gangs in this area is the #1 dilemma in schools, even suburban. Innercity? Horrible. Most suburban hischools have metal detectors, visible on-duty police. But my son says he feels totally safe & loves high school, in spite of it all. However, there are certain colors that no one is allowed to wear or they're called into the office. Gang color combinations. Man o man - back in my day, it was chewing bubblegum!
And I can't tell you how many of the private school kids are busted regularly for drugs on campus. The general consensus is the richer kids/families = more drugs. That's not MY consensus but I hear it regularly. :roll: Hopefully they're wrong.
SoWal Insider
Biff,
I just watched the video you posted. WOW! Pretty scary.
I just watched the video you posted. WOW! Pretty scary.
Beach Lover
:roll: All right, who's the a$$hole that decided public school students should have and be able to exercise First Amendment rights anyway? 
Beach Fanatic
Yes Mam!!
But geographically, gangs in this area is the #1 dilemma in schools, even suburban. Innercity? Horrible. Most suburban hischools have metal detectors, visible on-duty police. But my son says he feels totally safe & loves high school, in spite of it all. However, there are certain colors that no one is allowed to wear or they're called into the office. Gang color combinations. Man o man - back in my day, it was chewing bubblegum!
And I can't tell you how many of the private school kids are busted regularly for drugs on campus. The general consensus is the richer kids/families = more drugs. That's not MY consensus but I hear it regularly. :roll: Hopefully they're wrong.
Private schools= less violence; BEST RECREATIONAL DRUGS [nomedia]http://youtube.com/watch?v=QqwF5dlZheY[/nomedia]from Police Chief Michael Dorn Bibb County Public School System Macon, Ga.
Yes, kids these days are quite creative; You don't think they learn this stuff on TV, GangsTA Rap, or the INTERNET do ya
??? Biff,
I just watched the video you posted. WOW! Pretty scary.
SoWal Guide
Simply take out those 2 words and it's a patriotic statement of solidarity that noone can object to on religious grounds...........it's not like it's the first time the pledge has been changed!
Not sure how school uniforms fits into this, but the arguments listed seem reasonable to me, although in my limited experience, students just then use their accessories for status - jewelry, shoes, etc.
I agree completely. some folks don't like change, but come on - its part of life. our nation and communities are constantly changing to overcome racism, to become more aware of our fellow citizens, to be more accepting and even embracing diversity. we've made great progress as a nation. why stop now?
on the other hand, what's the big deal? the pledge is tradition and why mess with it now? the words should not offend anyone who truly wants to live here. "God" has many faces and meanings. I understand this side as well, because there are much more important issues in our society. The pledge is "good enough" as is.
Beach Fanatic
I wonder what these kids would say if the Islamic kids in their class wanted time carved out 5 times a day to pray. Never mind, I know what they would say. Its truly pathetic what this country has come to in the name of political correctness.
SoWal Expert
I wonder what these kids would say if the Islamic kids in their class wanted time carved out 5 times a day to pray. Never mind, I know what they would say. Its truly pathetic what this country has come to in the name of political correctness.
Hey Santiago- hitting the political forum for fun tonight, eh? Looking forward to your posts while I'm drinking my morning coffee.
Beach Fanatic
Hey Santiago- hitting the political forum for fun tonight, eh? Looking forward to your posts while I'm drinking my morning coffee.
My bad. I didn't know that I was supposed to take any of this serious. Got to work now, see you tonight.
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