Outing Gives Potter Passages New Meaning
Oct. 22, 2007, 1:30 AM EST
The Associated Press
NEW YORK -- With author J.K. Rowling's revelation that master wizard Albus Dumbledore is gay, some passages about the Hogwarts headmaster and rival wizard Gellert Grindelwald have taken on a new and clearer meaning.
The British author stunned her fans at Carnegie Hall on Friday night when she answered one young reader's question about Dumbledore by saying that he was gay and had been in love with Grindelwald, whom he had defeated years ago in a bitter fight.
'"You cannot imagine how his ideas caught me, Harry, inflamed me,'" Dumbledore says in "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows," the seventh and final book in Rowling's record-breaking fantasy series.
The news brought gasps, then applause at Carnegie Hall, the last stop on Rowling's brief U.S. tour, and set off thousands of e-mails on Potter fan Web sites around the world. Some were dismayed, others indifferent, but most were supportive.
"Jo Rowling calling any Harry Potter character gay would make wonderful strides in tolerance toward homosexuality," Melissa Anelli, webmaster of the fan site http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org, told The Associated Press. "By dubbing someone so respected, so talented and so kind, as someone who just happens to be also homosexual, she's reinforcing the idea that a person's gayness is not something of which they should be ashamed."
"'DUMBLEDORE IS GAY' is quite a headline to stumble upon on a Friday evening, and it's certainly not what I expected," added Potter fan Patrick Ross, of Rutherford, N.J.
"(But) a gay character in the most popular series in the world is a big step for Jo Rowling and for gay rights."
Gellert Grindelwald was a dark wizard of great power, who terrorized people much in the same way Harry's nemesis, Lord Voldemort, was to do a generation later. Readers hear of him in the first book, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone," in a reference to how Dumbledore defeated him. In "Deathly Hallows," readers learn they once had been best friends.
"Neither Dumbledore nor Grindelwald ever seems to have referred to this brief boyhood friendship in later life,'" Rowling writes. "However, there can be no doubt that Dumbledore delayed, for some five years of turmoil, fatalities, and disappearances, his attack upon Gellert Grindelwald. Was it lingering affection for the man or fear of exposure as his once best friend that caused Dumbledore to hesitate?"
As a young man, Dumbledore, brilliant and powerful, had been forced to return home to look after his mentally ill younger sister and younger brother. It was a task he admits to Harry that he resented, because it derailed the bright future he had been looking forward to.
Then Grindelwald, described by Rowling as "golden-haired, merry-faced," arrived after having been expelled from his own school. Grindelwald's aunt, Bathilda Bagshot, says of their meeting: "The boys took to each other at once." In a letter to Grindelwald, Dumbledore discusses their plans for gaining wizard dominance: "'(I)f you had not been expelled we would never have met.'"
Potter readers had speculated about Dumbledore, noting that he has no close relationship with women and a mysterious, troubled past.
"Falling in love can blind us to an extent," Rowling said Friday of Dumbledore's feelings about Grindelwald, adding that Dumbledore was "horribly, terribly let down."
Dumbledore's love, she observed, was his "great tragedy."
Replies
49
hmmmm......can't remember
Some see FICTION...some see TRUTH...all different perceptions have We.
Some LOVE gals...some LOVE guys...does LOVE care what sex we Be?
Some say MIRACLE...some say MAGIC...it all sounds DIVINE to Me. :roll:
You sure are waxing poetic tonight!!!
Beach Fanatic
Nellie Oleson was really a witch
Beach Fanatic
You sure are waxing poetic tonight!!!
Even a blind pig digs up a truffle now and then!
Beach Fanatic
What I've never understood is why people get upset about Harry Potter but don't get upset about Disney "glorifying witchcraft." Snow White comes to mind. I love the Harry Potter books. As a teacher, it's great to see kids get excited about reading. The later books do get a bit more mature and darker, but as I understand, the first book is meant to be read around 2nd or 3rd grade, then progress so the kids can read them as they grow up...if that makes any sense at all. So while the first book may be a good read for a third grader, later books are upper level and made to keep the interest of kids in that age group.
hmmmm......can't remember
What I've never understood is why people get upset about Harry Potter but don't get upset about Disney "glorifying witchcraft." Snow White comes to mind. I love the Harry Potter books. As a teacher, it's great to see kids get excited about reading. The later books do get a bit more mature and darker, but as I understand, the first book is meant to be read around 2nd or 3rd grade, then progress so the kids can read them as they grow up...if that makes any sense at all. So while the first book may be a good read for a third grader, later books are upper level and made to keep the interest of kids in that age group.
Most of the same group who gets upset about Harry Potter have been upset with Disney for many years.
Beach Fanatic
I know it's fiction (and some of the best fiction IMO) - just like Tinkie-Winkie or whomever was a fictional character. Didn't stop people from flipping out.
The fact that Harry Potter is fiction didn't stop someone in Georgia from trying to get the books removed from their school library because they thought it glorified witchcraft!
I could not have said it better, Scooterbug--DITTO!!!
SoWal Expert
Most of the same group who gets upset about Harry Potter have been upset with Disney for many years.
And most of these people are the ones that claim to be so strong and secure in their faith. If that is true, then why are they the first to be threatened by other faiths and practices? Craziness.
beats on hood
IMO it stinks that Rowling has messed with the sexual orientation of countless kids by announcing this. I mean, why doesn't she announce Dumbledore's political affililations, whether he is "green," whether he is a vegan or not, etc. Is she just trying to get a different set of people to read the books (since this is supposedly the last in the series) to hunt for clues regarding Dumbledore's sexuality? I have no bias regarding someone's sexual preferences, but IMO the young audience to which the Harry Potter series of books is directed is not ready to make these judgements. IMO.
hmmmm......can't remember
IMO it stinks that Rowling has messed with the sexual orientation of countless kids by announcing this. I mean, why doesn't she announce Dumbledore's political affililations, whether he is "green," whether he is a vegan or not, etc. Is she just trying to get a different set of people to read the books (since this is supposedly the last in the series) to hunt for clues regarding Dumbledore's sexuality? I have no bias regarding someone's sexual preferences, but IMO the young audience to which the Harry Potter series of books is directed is not ready to make these judgements. IMO.
AMEN! You hit the nail on the head. Well put!
beats on hood
AMEN! You hit the nail on the head. Well put!Grazi!
SoWal ExpertAuthor
Rowling didn't exactly announce it out of the blue, she was asked about it during a Q&A session and answered the reader's question.
I can safely say that until this hit the news I NEVER thought about the sexual orientation/sex lives of ANY Harry Potter character unless it was explicitly stated in the book that they were romantically interested in someone or in a relationship with someone - i.e. Harry & Cho, Hagrid & Madame Maxine, Cho & Cedric, Ron & Hermoine - and I doubt any kid will unless someone else brings it up or they're looking for it.
This was a "lounge" topic in my mind because the media's top story of the day was the sexual orientation of a popular children's book character. I thought it was funny that it was big news and cool that Rowling had a character whose identity wasn't as a stereotypical gay person, but as a incredibly gifted and iconic character, who BTW just happened to be gay. She has made so much money off of these books/movies/merchandising that she is richer than the Queen and has sold so many copies that additional publicity or reaching another demographic is a moot point.
Thank you, as with many Sowal threads, it became quite educational and made my jaw drop a couple of times.
I can safely say that until this hit the news I NEVER thought about the sexual orientation/sex lives of ANY Harry Potter character unless it was explicitly stated in the book that they were romantically interested in someone or in a relationship with someone - i.e. Harry & Cho, Hagrid & Madame Maxine, Cho & Cedric, Ron & Hermoine - and I doubt any kid will unless someone else brings it up or they're looking for it.
This was a "lounge" topic in my mind because the media's top story of the day was the sexual orientation of a popular children's book character. I thought it was funny that it was big news and cool that Rowling had a character whose identity wasn't as a stereotypical gay person, but as a incredibly gifted and iconic character, who BTW just happened to be gay. She has made so much money off of these books/movies/merchandising that she is richer than the Queen and has sold so many copies that additional publicity or reaching another demographic is a moot point.
Thank you, as with many Sowal threads, it became quite educational and made my jaw drop a couple of times.
SWGB
IMO it stinks that Rowling has messed with the sexual orientation of countless kids by announcing this. I mean, why doesn't she announce Dumbledore's political affililations, whether he is "green," whether he is a vegan or not, etc. Is she just trying to get a different set of people to read the books (since this is supposedly the last in the series) to hunt for clues regarding Dumbledore's sexuality? I have no bias regarding someone's sexual preferences, but IMO the young audience to which the Harry Potter series of books is directed is not ready to make these judgements. IMO.
You're so right, I know it helped me growing up as a gay kid to have absolutely no role models whatsoever.
SoWal Insider
Why does someone have to be gay to be a role model to gay youth?
SWGB
Why does someone have to be gay to be a role model to gay youth?
They don't, just as a person does not have to be straight to be a model to straight youth. What's wrong with a role model being gay and why would that instantly alter a young persons sexual orientation?
hmmmm......can't remember
They don't, just as a person does not have to be straight to be a model to straight youth. What's wrong with a role model being gay and why would that instantly alter a young persons sexual orientation?
I didn't see anyone saying that there was anything wrong with a role model being gay. It just seems like a politrick to "out" this character after the series was done--why didn't she just say that he supported the war in Iraq, or that he was an Evangelical Christian, or a Vegetarian?
SoWal Insider
They don't, just as a person does not have to be straight to be a model to straight youth. What's wrong with a role model being gay and why would that instantly alter a young persons sexual orientation?
What would make Dumbledoore a bigger role model than let's say Gore Vidal/ Writer, Joan Baez/Singer, Andy Warhal/ Artist, Yves St. Laurent/ Designer, Bruce Hayes/Olympic Swimmer...... all admittedly gay........should I go on?
Just asking?
Edited
SWGB
IMO it stinks that Rowling has messed with the sexual orientation of countless kids by announcing this. I mean, why doesn't she announce Dumbledore's political affililations, whether he is "green," whether he is a vegan or not, etc. Is she just trying to get a different set of people to read the books (since this is supposedly the last in the series) to hunt for clues regarding Dumbledore's sexuality? I have no bias regarding someone's sexual preferences, but IMO the young audience to which the Harry Potter series of books is directed is not ready to make these judgements. IMO.
The bold part is what bothered me.
SoWal ExpertAuthor
None of the above mentioned people are very prominent in the elementary & middle school arenas.
Dumbledore is a major character in a worldwide publishing and marketing machine.
Dumbledore is a major character in a worldwide publishing and marketing machine.
hmmmm......can't remember
The bold part is what bothered me.
I see your point, but the way I read it was that Children's lit for kids in the Potter age group is typically neutral. It doesn't talk about who has sex with whom, and now parents will have some 'splaining to do to kids who are young for that sort of discussion.
SoWal ExpertAuthor
If they're too young to understand that gay people exist/have the idea that a man can love a man or a woman can love a woman explained to them, they're too young to understand most of these books.
We're talking about characters in books that are hundreds of pages long.
We're talking about characters in books that are hundreds of pages long.
Darlene is my middle name, not my nickname
The bold part is what bothered me.
I agree sowalgayboi. I don't think that outing Dumbledore will "mess up the sexual orientations of kids". IMHO, either you are or you aren't. I don't believe you can "change" a persons sexual orientation. You are born the way you are. IMHO.
SoWal Insider
Dumbledore is a major character in a worldwide publishing and marketing machine.Doesn't really make him a role model IMO with the exception of fighting evil with a wand. Not terribly realistic though.
I don't have issue with a gay charachter in a book or play, the issue is that parents now may be "forced" to address sexual orientation with their kids before the child may be ready for it, and who gives anyone that right to make that decision for a parent? There are kids yet who haven't heard, and eventually they will hear it from another kid at school.
I agree sowalgayboi. I don't think that outing Dumbledore will "mess up the sexual orientations of kids". IMHO, either you are or you aren't. I don't believe you can "change" a persons sexual orientation. You are born the way you are. IMHO.
Ditto to that Kathy IMO.
Edited
Beach Lover
If they're too young to understand that gay people exist/have the idea that a man can love a man or a woman can love a woman explained to them, they're too young to understand most of these books.
We're talking about characters in books that are hundreds of pages long.
I concur! This book deals with very adult subject matter and if parents are comfortable with the material they should be comfortable with some very challenging questions that may come with it.
Besides....yawn....this subject is, as old Dumbly would say, old hat.
I can't believe it's so controversial. It's just a book, people!
SoWal ExpertAuthor
Doesn't really make him a role model IMO with the exception of fighting evil with a wand. Not terribly realistic though.
I don't have issue with a gay charachter in a book or play, the issue is that parents now may be "forced" to address sexual orientation with their kids before the child may be ready for it, and who gives anyone that right to make that decision for a parent? There are kids yet who haven't heard, and eventually they will hear it from another kid at school.
My point was that most of the people you listed are dead, or so old and reclusive I thought they were dead, and pretty much unknown to the average middle school child. You don't have multiple blockbuster movies featuring Bruce Hayes (Warhol was in an Austin Powers though) and while Vidal is a prolific writer, his books & essays are not standard fare for kids like the 7 Potter books.
As far as a gay Dumbledore forcing a parent to discuss sexual orientation with their child, I guarantee that they already go to school with a child who has a gay parent, relative, or family friend, listen to music by a gay artist, and are constantly hearing much worse things than "Dumbledore is gay" from their classmates and the media.
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