bioidentical hormones

ok, so now I'm thinking - - is there sudden unexplained joint and muscle pain with menopause??

My favorite doctor is Elizabeth Lee Vliet. She has lots of books but my two favorites are:

"Screaming To Be Heard - Hormone Connections Women Suspect and Doctors Still Ignore"

I mistakenly attributed "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Pre-Menopause" to Elizabeth Vliet in an earlier post. I do recommend her book, as well. The book I mentioned is by Dr. John Lee.

http://www.johnleemd.com

Sorry for the boo-boo.

ok, so now I'm thinking - - is there sudden unexplained joint and muscle pain with menopause??

yes. based on my mother's experience. I always encouraged her to exercise more to help offset these joint pain symptoms (mainly hip) but when you are hurting you just can't get motivated to stick with any exercise plan. I can definitely relate.

I foresee an entire day spent at B&N very soon in the women's health section checking out these books you all have recommended. thank you all.

You are doing the right thing researching all of this. I encourage everybody to do your own research and thing decide what is right for you. Finding the right doctor who is really up on the bioidenticals is key. My doctor has made it the primary focus of her practice because she feels so passionately about them.

you are so right. I learned with my ankle problem that only you can do the research and the work to figure out what is necessary for your best health. a good doctor who will help guide and support you is also important, of course.

ok, so now I'm thinking - - is there sudden unexplained joint and muscle pain with menopause??

Yes, this is one of the symptoms which can possibly be helped by replacing the hormones. They are also finding a link with hormone loss and fibromyalgia.

One other benefit of the natural hormones, in case anybody is considering them, is that they can significantly reduce your risk for osteoporosis. When I first started having menopausal symptoms my doctor sent me for a bone density scan. It came back that I already had mild osteopenia which meant that I was already losing bone mass due to the diminishing hormones. One year after having been on hormones I went for another bone density scan and it was completely normal.

Yes, this is one of the symptoms which can possibly be helped by replacing the hormones. They are also finding a link with hormone loss and fibromyalgia.

well, well, well... I wonder why NO DOCTOR HAS EVER CONSIDERED THIS FOR ME?? :roll: I'll be making an appointment very soon.

Thanks for the info. (tried to rep you but couldn't. will later...)
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well, well, well... I wonder why NO DOCTOR HAS EVER CONSIDERED THIS FOR ME?? :roll: I'll be making an appointment very soon.

Thanks for the info. (tried to rep you but couldn't. will later...)
.

Great - just make sure that you get one that is very knowledgable about the bioidenticals. I have found that most doctors that poo poo them have not really done the research. When I decided that this was the route for me I called a compounding pharmacy in my area (not all pharmacys are compounding pharmacys) and ask them to tell me which doctors were prescribing the bioidenticals. Let us all know how you do

Great - just make sure that you get one that is very knowledgable about the bioidenticals. I have found that most doctors that poo poo them have not really done the research. When I decided that this was the route for me I called a compounding pharmacy in my area (not all pharmacys are compounding pharmacys) and ask them to tell me which doctors were prescribing the bioidenticals. Let us all know how you do

There's one compounding pharmacy near us.

I will DO just that! Thanks!
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well, well, well... I wonder why NO DOCTOR HAS EVER CONSIDERED THIS FOR ME?? :roll: I'll be making an appointment very soon.

Thanks for the info. (tried to rep you but couldn't. will later...)
.

I said that very thing last summer when my female gyn got me to try cymbalta which is an anti-depressant which also targets pain. chronic pain had ruled my life for a while so I needed help with depression and pain at this point. I walked out of there saying "why has no doctor ever mentioned this to me before?????" apparently the same drug is used for a number of conditions, including fybrom. (can't sp). it worked absolute wonders. and I only needed it for 6 months.

JR - you must let us hear about what you find out, etc. please do your own research considering your own condition, symptoms, etc. I do hope you find relief. do some reading on some of the above books. you will find that BHRT just is not mainstream stuff. it is natural, not synthetic so not pushed by drug companies, and maybe there are not enough studies to support its use in the medical community. it isn't NEW by any means. I'm not sure what the deal is on it. the mayo clinic website states that there is not evidence to support the effectiveness of Bioidenticals (and that is all it says - no further review or discussion - I figured they would be a little more progressive on this subject). but then you can read so much else being done by MDs in the field of aging that seems to say otherwise, backed up by many many many testimonials from men and women.

I used over the counter Estroven and it was fine but it's different for everyone. All I know is I used to always be cold in our 1912 uninsulated house in Michigan and now winters aren't that bad in the house for me so I'm very happy! Probably saved several thousand dollars because I now don't have to insulate the house (though the kids may still be cold...).

Like Minnie, I also thought the book "The Wisdom of Menopause" was great by Northrop. I started working out and eating better a few years ago, so that reversed the weight gain (which started before menopause...) and made me feel much better. But it's always an effort for me to exercise and I don't think I'd do it yet without a trainer, though maybe someday I might. It actually helps me to know that exercise isn't easy for most people (I thought it was just me) so I just do it as part of my regular routine without thinking about it (though I haven't done it for about 2 weeks other than walking to work today and I'll go back to the trainer tomorrow).

I think a few glasses of wine helps, too.

you will find that BHRT just is not mainstream stuff. it is natural, not synthetic so not pushed by drug companies, and maybe there are not enough studies to support its use in the medical community.

it isn't NEW by any means.


the mayo clinic website states that there is not evidence to support the effectiveness of Bioidenticals (and that is all it says - no further review or discussion - I figured they would be a little more progressive on this subject). but then you can read so much else being done by MDs in the field of aging that seems to say otherwise, backed up by many many many testimonials from men and women.

I totally understand the ways of natural vs. allopathic medicine. I considered my dad one of the original "birkenstock" guys. We consumed no sugar, no white bread or processed foods; only ice packs for headaches, dr. visits in true emergencies, etc. We only got to drink 1 Coke on our birthdays! :shock: So I know how to decipher the natural, homeopathic terminology. I'm just going to have to dive back into it once again after all these years.



I would have to believe that funding for the Mayo clinic comes from some of the major drug companies so they have to be very careful what they advocate.


When I saw the title of this thread originally, I thought it was about mainstream hormone replacement therapy.
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Hormones, Health and Longevity - seminar

The seminar is on April 29 at 6pm at the Courtyard Marriott Grand Blvd.
Dr. Rodney Soto will be giving the lecture on Hormones, Health and
Longevity. This event is free to the public.

Thank you
Becky Soto
Business Manager
The Younger You Institute
850-424-6058
www.yyinstitute.com

This was in Dr. Teitelbaum's email newsletter. Interesting info about black cohosh and breast cancer. http://www.endfatigue-dev.com/health_articles_c/Cancer-black_cohosh_and_breast_cancer.html

For joint pain, try 25 mg/day of quality DHEA supplement. My DO recommended it for my horrible neck and shoulder pain, and my relief was immediate and dramatic. Helps with "fuzzy thinking" too.

This was in Dr. Teitelbaum's email newsletter. Interesting info about black cohosh and breast cancer. http://www.endfatigue-dev.com/health_articles_c/Cancer-black_cohosh_and_breast_cancer.html

For joint pain, try 25 mg/day of quality DHEA supplement. My DO recommended it for my horrible neck and shoulder pain, and my relief was immediate and dramatic. Helps with "fuzzy thinking" too.

miss crit: I am going to post that article here about black cohosh - interesting stuff (link above by miss critter).

Black Cohosh May Decrease Breast Cancer Risk by Half While Preventing Cancer Recurrence

A 2007 study suggests that women taking supplements of black cohosh may cut their risk of breast cancer by more than 50 percent. The researchers evaluated 949 women with breast cancer and 1,524 without cancer.
Rebbeck and co-workers found that the use of black cohosh was associated with a 61 percent reduction in the risk of breast cancer. This risk reduction was also observed for Remifemin, a herbal preparation derived from black cohosh, which was calculated to reduce the risk of breast cancer by 53 percent.1 In addition, in a study of 18,861 women with breast cancer, those on black cohosh were 41% less likely to develop a recurrence of their cancer over the average 3.6 years they were followed.2
I am not recommending it as a breast cancer preventive or treatment. Nonetheless, a lot of unbalanced information has been put out to scare women away from using herbals, and I believe this is one more example. Some doctors suggest that black cohosh increases estrogen production (not the case) and one mouse study of mice with breast cancer found it to be detrimental. On the other hand, every study I've seen testing it in human breast cancer cells has shown it to be at least neutral and usually helpful. Given the overall data, if I was a women taking tamoxifen, I would be on the Remifemin. I would also be on B vitamins and Coenzyme Q10.
References:
1. International Journal of Cancer 1 April 2007, Volume 120, Issue 7, Pages 1523-1528, doi: 10.1002/ijc.22485 "A retrospective case-control study of the use of hormone-related supplements and association with breast cancer" Authors: T.R. Rebbeck, A.B. Troxel, S. Norman, G.R. Bunin, A. DeMichele, M. Baumgarten, M. Berlin, R. Schinnar, B.L. Strom
2. Henneicke-von Zepelin HH, et al. Black Cohosh extract and recurrence free survival after breast cancer. Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2007; 45(3):143-145

who has 'em?

I'm ready to do some serious work looking into this hormone replacement alternative. would love to hear your experience, thoughts, knowledge, etc on the subject.

sorry to post and run, but will check back later.

Hi guys. I'm not going to give advice on specific drug treatments because as you guys have said, each person's case is very different and they should work with a physician (MD) in choosing a drug regimen. I also applaud all of you for taking an active role in your healthcare and doing your own research. Trained health care professionals are still human beings. There are good ones and not so good ones but nobody knows your body better than you so find one that you can communicate with and that listens to you. Then stick with them.

There are a few comments that cause me to just want to share my experiences. As some of you know, I am a registered pharmacist. I worked as a health fraud investigator for 13 years. During this time I was qualified as an expert in federal and state courts as an expert in dietary supplement law and general pharmacy. I have testified in criminal and civil cases, have written laws related to drugs, have done television interviews and have presented continuing education training to physicians, pharmacists and nurses as well as writing a guide on dietary supplements for poison control centers. I've seen a lot of which the general public is completely unaware. I just want to share a couple of things. Take it or leave it but in your studies please be aware of the things which Skunky has alluded to.

1) Natural vs Synthetic - Natural does not equal safe. Naturally occurring biologically active substances almost always are found in combination with many different alkaloid contaminants which also may have effects on the body. It is very often not feasible to economically extract the contaminants.

Synthetic biologically active substances are pure active substance (for the most part) combined with inert fillers to make a dosage form such as a pill.

The body breaks down the active ingredient EXACTLY the same whether it came from a plant or animal or a glass vial. It doesn't know the difference between natural and synthetic derivation.

2) Safety of Dietary Supplements - Drugs (both prescription and over-the-counter) must be proven to be both safe and effective.

Dietary supplements are regulated as foods and have no requirement to prove either safety or efficacy. As Skunky said, it is truly Buyer Beware.

There are reported cases of pregnant mothers taking Ginseng supplements who gave birth to babies with facial hair. Licorice elevates the blood pressure. Wintergreen thins the blood. and on and on. Just about everything that you put in your mouth could have adverse effects in certain people and certain amounts.

Because there are no tests required on dietary supplements to prove that what it says is in the product actually is and in the amount that they say, it isn't uncommon for dietary supplements to have "undisclosed" active ingredients. This is especially prominent in the Chinese herbal products. If there's a man flexing his muscles on the box, it could have testosterone in it. If you take it and feel immediately better, it could have prednisone in it. This is widespread, well documented and was the content of the guide that I put together for poison control centers.

One such case that I did had 4 prescription drugs in full dosage amounts in each tablet. People taking it felt great! They were mad at us when we confiscated it but the product had such high doses of prescription anti-inflammatory drugs that it would tear anybody's gut up in short order. No doctor would ever prescribe such a combination. The product also had diazepam (valium) in it. So everybody felt great.

Another case I did, had an ingredient that broke down to methamphetamine in it. It was being targeted to the elderly for memory and depression. Everybody felt great because they were speeding their butts off but the effects on their aging hearts could be fatal.

The biggest targets of fraudulent products are desperate illnessness (cancer, aids, alzheimers) and vanity (weight and hair loss and aging). An "institute" could be in a 4x6 ft closet. A "scientist" requires no expertise or license. Anybody can be nominated for a nobel peace price. There is no conspiracy to kill us by not approving drugs or keeping secrets. The only reason why supplies are going to run out fast is because they are going to get busted soon and Mexico can't even produce clean water, let alone better drugs than the US.

3) Compounding vs. FDA approved drugs. Manufacturers must prove that they can consistently make a specific formulation of a drug that:

It's much more complex than that but the process of movement of a substance in the body is known as "bioavailability" and "bioactivity". Tests are conducted by giving drugs to humans, taking blood and urine samples at various times and measuring the amount of drug in the urine and blood samples. These tests are required for EVERY distinct formulation of a drug before it's approved to prove that it gets to where it needs to get in the proper amounts.

Then each drug has "long term" studies where people are followed for side effects for years afterwards. That's where they went wrong with Thalidomide. Safety was not required to be proven at the time, only efficacy. So there were no long term safety studies that would have indicated the birth defects in the next generation.

The point of this being that compounding pharmacies DO NOT and NEVER WILL be able to conduct the studies required to show safety and efficacy on sample batches of the drugs that they make in their particular pharmacy. Most use "recipes" provided by the company that supplies them with the bulk pharmaceuticals. I have seen evidence of sustained release morphine tablets (intended to be released over 12 hours) dump the entire dose at once into the bloodstream. I have seen compounded eyedrops cause blindness because while a pharmacy can remove bacteria through a microwave or filter, they cannot remove the pyrogens which are the waste of the bacteria. This can only be done through large autoclaves which I have never seen in a pharmacy.

The laws that allow pharmacists to compound date back to the days when pharmacists were like wizards and there was no drug regulation. Today we most often have much better choices in approved drugs that have repeatedly been proven to be safe and effective. There are times when nothing is available and it is appropriate to compound but take it from someone who has done it, when a pharmacist mixes up a product, it's a crapshoot and that pharmacist has no idea if it will get into your system and to what degree. Compounding laws are not intended to allow pharmacists to circumvent the drug approval process but this loophole became big business with big profits. I am not saying that compounding pharmacists are necessarily bad people. Most believe what they are doing is safe. Very few pharmacists have an in depth understanding of the drug approval process, why it exists and how it protects the patient. I had no idea of the importance of FDA approval until I began working as an investigator. In fact, I was taught compounding in pharmacy school. I have worked cases with the very teachers that taught me compounding and they were appalled at what is being done under the auspices of compounding. My pharmaceutical chemistry teacher at the University of Florida became quite vocal about the misuse of compounding and had his life threatened.

My boss' job was threatened if he allowed us to testify before the Florida legeslature regarding compounding. The person that threatened him was a senator who owns compounding pharmacies. I know this sounds like a movie but it's quite real and a big part of why I and many others quit their jobs.

Regarding compounding - With many drugs, it's not as critical but with time-released tablets or capsules, eye drops and injections, I would never use a compounded product, even if I made it myself.

4) Buying drugs online - Anyone who distributes prescription drugs in the US must be licensed by their state and sometimes the Feds. This means that both their facility and their records are inspected. There are specific storage requirements that are monitored and where they get their drugs is closely monitored.

We found counterfeit drugs in just about every wholesaler in the state, licensed and unlicensed which went to hundreds of pharmacies and hospitals. The point - if you buy prescription drugs from anything but monitored, US liscensed sources, you are doing it at your own risk. If you go to your pharmacy and your pills don't look quite right, (maybe you don't know what it is exactly but something is different) - bring them back to the pharmacy and question them. Counterfeit drugs are a reality and will only become worse as our drugs becomes more sophisticated (and expensive).

I know that some of this is too technical for some to understand but for those that do understand, I encourage you to look closely at every tablet that you put into your mouth. The only supplement that I take is a multivitamin from a manufacturer that is licensed and inspected - Centrum. That's it.

I made it through menopause relatively effortlessly and pray that I never have some of the issues that some of you ladys have had. If I do, I will work closely with my doctor until we can find the best solution, whether it's diet, supplements or drugs. Toots made a very good comment - exercise is the best thing that we can do to keep these aging machines running well. I'm as guilty as everyone else there but I'm on a constant quest to try to get myself back into a regular exercise routine.

When we busted one of the distributors of the Chinese herbal supplements, we asked him why they put prescription drugs in the products. He said, "Americans want fix now, Asians know herbs take long time."

Sorry for being so long but maybe someone will get something from it. I don't talk about my past much but when I hear my peeps looking for alternative medicines, I want them to know what is out there.

hi cork and thanks for the pharmaceutical advice. all very helpful. especially online drugs. natural certainly does not equal safe!

do you have any specific experience with natural hormones that are all the rage among medical professionals, more progressive gynocologists, the anti-aging business, etc? this is my interest. and just from this thread I've heard from about 8 women on this board who have had incredible results using compounded natural hormone replacement. and a few who have also had success with the synthetic hormones. and the reading I've done by leading doctors in anti-aging along with their patients testimonials makes me wonder why bioidentical hormones aren't more widely accepted by the medical community at this point- except they say that it isn't a drug owned by the pharmaceutical companies, so its not profitable for anyone, and that western medicine is disease based, not proactive in terms of preserving health, especially women's health. I'm not saying I agree with this, but am reading and hearing it.

but I am getting names of local doctors (one at sacred heart) who does use natural replacement - I hope to learn something from these folks.

what about synthetic hormone replacement? I hear the estrogen used is a one size fits all and not necessarily the beneficial estrogens needed by your body.

much to learn. thanks for your input.

cork - I've got some resources for you to read. we should get together soon.

regarding your comment about getting through menopause. let me explain better my own endeavor. its not about symptoms. its about all that I'm hearing and learning about the hormone loss that takes place during and after menopause. the symptoms are not the problem. its the disease and aging that accelerates with the decline in hormones a woman experiences starting before mienopause. I'm even starting to see information about how american women have far more decline in hormone levels, far earlier than other women in the world because of our environment, lifestyle, diet, etc. replacement is becoming very popular among men and women to regain energy and maintain health for much longer, enjoying a healthier old age. at least that is the idea. I'm not the expert. yet.

hi cork and thanks for the pharmaceutical advice. all very helpful. especially online drugs. natural certainly does not equal safe!

do you have any specific experience with natural hormones that are all the rage among medical professionals, gynocologists, the anti-aging business, etc? this is my interest. and just from this thread I've heard from about 8 women on this board who have had incredible results using compounded natural hormone replacement. and a few who have also had success with the synthetic hormones. and the reading I've done by leading doctors in anti-aging along with their patients testimonials makes me wonder why bioidentical hormones aren't accepted by the medical community - except they say that it isn't a drug owned by the pharmaceutical companies, so its not profitable for anyone, and that western medicine is disease based, not proactive in terms of preserving health. I'm not saying I agree with this, but am reading and hearing it.

but I am getting names of local doctors (one at sacred heart) who does use natural replacement - I hope to learn something from these folks.

what about synthetic hormone replacement? I hear the estrogen used is a one size fits all and not necessarily the beneficial estrogens needed by your body.

much to learn. thanks for your input.

Hi Sweetie,

I did a quick look-see and it seems like the term "bioidentical" is a new buzz word being used by the industry which is quite common. That doesn't mean that they have no merit.

Basically, it's my understanding that BHRT is chemically synthesized hormones that are identical to those naturally occur in the human body (endogenous).

HRT is derived from either synthetic or animal sources and is the same or "similar" to that created by the human body. Kinda like insulin.

Gonna go get some breakfast and am happy to do some research for you. I don't want my sweetie growing a third boob or something . Is there a specific bioidentical substance that you are considering or are you interested in the category of substances as a whole because one may have more merit than an other.

You are correct that western medicine is disease based rather than preventative but I'm not sure that's applicable with these BHRT's. Will do a little more research and see what the FDA's problem is with them. Smooches to you baby!

cork - I've got some resources for you to read. we should get together soon.

regarding your comment about getting through menopause. let me explain better my own endeavor. its not about symptoms. its about all that I'm hearing and learning about the hormone loss that takes place during and after menopause. the symptoms are not the problem. its the disease and aging that accelerates with the decline in hormones a woman experiences starting before mienopause. I'm even starting to see information about how american women have far more decline in hormone levels, far earlier than other women in the world because of our environment, lifestyle, diet, etc. replacement is becoming very popular among men and women to regain energy and maintain health for much longer, enjoying a healthier old age. at least that is the idea. I'm not the expert. yet.

Would love to see your resources. My biggest concern with taking something that the body makes is that the way the body works is that there is a "feedback" system and this how your body manufactures it's chemicals - endorphins etc. When a substance that is made in the body and supplemented with "external" sources, the substance fits in the human receptors and the body sees the levels and says "whoa, we have enough - stop making it!". Then your body shuts down it's own production. This is why 'withdrawals" occur in drug addicts who quit. When they quit, their body has none of it's own pain killers (IE) being produced and they experience all of the effects of low endorphin levels - pain, diarrhea etc. It takes several days after the withdrawal for the body to begin production again. If there is sustained suppression of internal chemicals, the question then is, has the body said, "screw it, I never have to make anymore" and the production mechanism basically stops due to inactivity like a machine that hasn't been used.

That's is probably my biggest concern. Are these BHRT's fitting into the human receptors and shutting down your own production. Going to eat. Will do more work later. Kisses

the BHRT or NHRT's are the same. and many women are having this done as an alternative to HRT becaue with BHRT the doctor does a thorough analysis of your hormone levels and prescribes the amounts of estrogens and progesteran (and maybe testosterone) needed. your levels are continually checked and the hormones are tweaked until the correct levels are reached to have your body in balance, etc. it isn't a quick fix like HRT. certainly isn't a one size fits all, like HRT. the only hormones you have replaced are the ones your body has virtually stopped making (or marked decrease in production). and you only replace hormones to the levels needed. you surely would not supplement your body with hormones just for the hell of it. it is a REPLACEMENT therapy, ya know? there is much material on it now, and its not new. While it makes complete sense to me on the surface, and I am very interested based on comments from several sources and friends, I am interested in finding out about any studies on this subject. there are many sources out there for info, and much has been recommended by good folks on this thread!! thanks!!

Would love to see your resources. My biggest concern with taking something that the body makes is that the way the body works is that there is a "feedback" system and this how your body manufactures it's chemicals - endorphins etc. When a substance that is made in the body and supplemented with "external" sources, the substance fits in the human receptors and the body sees the levels and says "whoa, we have enough - stop making it!". Then your body shuts down it's own production. This is why 'withdrawals" occur in drug addicts who quit. When they quit, their body has none of it's own pain killers (IE) being produced and they experience all of the effects of low endorphin levels - pain, diarrhea etc. It takes several days after the withdrawal for the body to begin production again. If there is sustained suppression of internal chemicals, the question then is, has the body said, "screw it, I never have to make anymore" and the production mechanism basically stops due to inactivity like a machine that hasn't been used.

That's is probably my biggest concern. Are these BHRT's fitting into the human receptors and shutting down your own production. Going to eat. Will do more work later. Kisses

One other benefit of the natural hormones, in case anybody is considering them, is that they can significantly reduce your risk for osteoporosis. When I first started having menopausal symptoms my doctor sent me for a bone density scan. It came back that I already had mild osteopenia which meant that I was already losing bone mass due to the diminishing hormones. One year after having been on hormones I went for another bone density scan and it was completely normal.

I am re-reading this thread to make a list of books, doctors, and resources you all have recommended so far. if anyone has anything to add, please do so here or PM to me.

Margarita, I wanted to say that I've heard that bone health is a benefit of hormone replacement. do you take anything else to help maintain bone health? or do you attribute your improved density to hormones? I am so interested in these details. and also confused.

IF HRT helps with bone health (and other important things such as heart, brain, anti-cancer, etc). then why in the world would any woman not be placed immediately on HRT when needed in her mid to later life? this is a question for the professionals, but thought I would throw it out anyway.

IF HRT helps with bone health (and other important things such as heart, brain, anti-cancer, etc). then why in the world would any woman not be placed immediately on HRT when needed in her mid to later life? this is a question for the professionals, but thought I would throw it out anyway.

in 1987, The Women's Health Initiative conducted a study with over 16,000 post menopausal women. The study looked at HRT which and the risks of cardiovascular diseases, bone fractures and breast cancers.

The study was abruptly discontinued 3 years early because the researchers felt that the incidences of breast cancer were above a predetermined number and that the benefits of the study did not outweigh the risks.

http://www.cwhn.ca/resources/menopause/hrt-glance.html

HRT used to be the treatment of choice and many women were placed on it prophylactically at menopause. The WHI institute study changed that. At this point, the BHRT claims began to surace.

Regarding BHRT vs HRT therapy, I've pulled up some information that I hope any woman considering their use will look at.

As I said in my earlier post, the body treats a chemical the same regardless of the derivation. The National Institute of Health, the Endocrine Society, U of Alabama Dept of OBG, The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists and many other health care organizations and professionals have determined that the risks associated with the BHRT is the same as the risks associated with HRT (including increased risk of cancer and stroke) . Also it should be stated that 3 of the doctors that Suzanne Summers quotes in her book have come out against her book warning people that she is making unfounded claims that may be harmful.

Secondly, these so-called medical professionals purport to titrate the hormones based on levels found in your saliva. The fact is that saliva is a very poor measurement of hormones for a variety of reasons including one's diet and the time of day. Even blood levels are not indicative of tissue levels so the mere concept of titration of hormones is faulty. This throws up red flags for me.

I understand the desperation that many woman feel at menopause and beyond. None of us want to get old but I hope that women considering BHRT will read the information that medical experts with no vested interest have published as well as the information from those with a vested interest in selling the stuff.

NIH - National Institute of Health
The Endocrine Society
Pharmwatch - by Dr Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch.com, a non-profit organization that aims to "combat health-related frauds with a primary focus on providing "quackery-related information that is difficult or impossible to get elsewhere."
American college of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
Prescription Access Litigation- A Consumers Group
Medscape Pharmacists
Clinical News on Diabetes and Endocrine Disorders
FDA News Release
FDA Center for Drug Evaluation and Research

If you are certain that you want to try them, the University of Kansas is in Phase II Trials and are looking for patients right now.

In my opinion the risk of cancers and stroke are greater than the benefits of LONG term use of any type of HRT. This is not anecdotal or based on "testimony". It is based on the opinions of the best experts in the country, controlled studies and my own 20 years of education and experience.

For those that want to look further into staying young, there is a lot of scientific evidence that consistent exercise (I know, I hate it) has significant benefits to the body. For years, we have known that exercise decreases bone loss and there are ongoing studies that support that exercise also prevents estrogen loss. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/408896_2
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0522210936.htm

And one of my favorites from Harvard Medical School

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newswe...ather_Time.htm

My belief is that everything that we need to thrive is produced by the human body. It's just knowing how to stimulate it's production. I wish that I could say there was an easy fix but if something really works, there should be absolutely no problem with going through the process of proving that it works AND that it is safe on a long term basis. Historical nightmares such as thalidomide and sulfanilimide are how we have gotten to our present drug regulatory system . I was a person who believed in the rubrick about the FDA until I became educated about what it does, why and how it does it and how many people don't understand the dangers and sophistication of creating something intended for use as a drug before they try to make a profit on it.

There will always be people that swear by herbs, supplements, nutriceuticals, smart drugs and every other panacea du jour. I believe that there is a place for natural products. Unfortunately, the US has not conducted valid double blind studies on most of them. I have a rare book in Tampa that lists hundreds of chinese herbs and the clinical study results that have been conducted in China. They are much farther than the US in herbal medicine.

The National LIbrary of Health at NIH is a wonderful resource.
The NIH also has a branch called the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine. I urge anyone considering non-traditional therapy to look it up here. They have some excellent info on the Bioidenticals as well as the Black Cohosh that Toots talked about.

Hope this helps.

thanks cork. I must say that this thread is not about "desperate menopausal women" looking for a quick fix. quite the opposite. it is about thoughtful women sharing their personal experiences and knowledge. googling is great, but not exactly what is needed here.

I think we've established earlier in this thread that exercise and diet become even more critical at menopause than any other time in life. loss of hormone levels is a natural part of life for men and women. whether you and your doctor decide that you need to replace diminished hormone levels is purely a personal decision based on your own unique situation, body, health, etc.

the most important aspect of this discussion for women's health is choice. here is a quote from a leading expert in women's health, Dr. Christiane Northrup... she advocates that women need to take control of their own health, and she represents what many of us are trying to achieve by having this highly personal discussion...

Given a choice between bioidentical hormones or synthetic ones, Dr. Northrup quips that she would trust “the wisdom coming from Mother Nature’s millions of years of experimentation” over “the fifty years of biochemical wizardry from Father Pharmaceutical.” Whether or not a woman chooses to use hormone replacement therapy, bioidentical or synthetic, the important factor is choice—having the freedom to choose her own best health care alternative.

Christiane Northrup, M.D., obstetrician, is a visionary in women's health and wellness who is internationally known for her lectures and articles. As a practicing physician for over 20 years, Dr. Christiane Northrup is a leading proponent of medicine and healing that acknowledges the unity of the mind and the body as well as the powerful role of the human spirit in creating health.


several of you recommended dr. northrup's books. I've heard of her for years. looking forward to reading about her work. she is only one of many well known doctors who practice holistic medicine, and who have made a huge difference in medicine for women.

each woman must do her own work to find what best fits her life in this and many other categories of health. and that is the entire idea behind this thread. no scare tactics. there is not one way or one method to fit all. you are unique.

I know there are many other written works by leading doctors in the field. if you have one or more to share, please provide their name and book titles, or link to a well-known website. this will help us more than googled references to dozens of unknown authors and links. its hard to sort through these, and they become useless. thanks.