who has 'em?
I'm ready to do some serious work looking into this hormone replacement alternative. would love to hear your experience, thoughts, knowledge, etc on the subject.
sorry to post and run, but will check back later.
Replies
138
Beach Fanatic
I posted (or tried) to post a really long response last night & it didn't go through. In a bit, I will try to repost it, but I am not sure if I can get the whole gist of it together again. Just a second....
SoWal Insider
thanks cork. I must say that this thread is not about "desperate menopausal women" looking for a quick fix. quite the opposite. it is about thoughtful women sharing their personal experiences and knowledge. googling is great, but not exactly what is needed here.
I think we've established earlier in this thread that exercise and diet become even more critical at menopause than any other time in life. loss of hormone levels is a natural part of life for men and women. whether you and your doctor decide that you need to replace diminished hormone levels is purely a personal decision based on your own unique situation, body, health, etc.
the most important aspect of this discussion for women's health is choice. here is a quote from a leading expert in women's health, Dr. Christiane Northrup... she advocates that women need to take control of their own health, and she represents what many of us are trying to achieve by having this highly personal discussion...
Christiane Northrup, M.D., obstetrician, is a visionary in women's health and wellness who is internationally known for her lectures and articles. As a practicing physician for over 20 years, Dr. Christiane Northrup is a leading proponent of medicine and healing that acknowledges the unity of the mind and the body as well as the powerful role of the human spirit in creating health.
several of you recommended dr. northrup's books. I've heard of her for years. looking forward to reading about her work. she is only one of many well known doctors who practice holistic medicine, and who have made a huge difference in medicine for women.
each woman must do her own work to find what best fits her life in this and many other categories of health. and that is the entire idea behind this thread. no scare tactics. there is not one way or one method to fit all. you are unique.
I know there are many other written works by leading doctors in the field. if you have one or more to share, please provide their name and book titles, or link to a well-known website. this will help us more than googled references to dozens of unknown authors and links. its hard to sort through these, and they become useless. thanks.
I haven't finished reading up on these Bioidentical for HRT yet but I have a good feeling that your first sentence says it all. My time for some type of treatment is lurking around the corner & I want to be as prepared and informed as I possibly can and not end up a desperate menopausal woman before it's too late.
There is no magic bullet. It will probably at best be a combination of holistic treatments along with allopathic. Together in a complementary combination.
There is much to learn and read here. Thanks to everyone for sharing what they've learned.
.
Beach Fanatic
I might be posting this in a number of responses, as I have a lot to say & I don't really want one issue confused with another.
Number one: Christian Northrup is incredible. Any woman's "library" should include "Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom," at least. I've had it since 1994 and continuously refer to it, as I grow up
, which will never completely happen.
Number two: To lump everyone into a category that can be covered under one method of healing only is ludicrous. It is an incorrect to say that all people can be treated allopathically as it is to say that all people can be treated with hormones, herbs or another therapy.
For example, I do better on homeopathic remedies & more gentle therapies. I choose them over herbs, supplements & pharmaceuticals, but I usually work in that order if I need something other than a homeopathic. However, other people do better with another form of therapy. It should be their right to choose what therapy works best for them.
To say anything different is like telling women their only choice in childbirth is to have a Cesaerean, or (on the opposite end) that natural, homebirth is the only real way to have a child. That takes away the rights of the individual.
NOTE: I have went through childbirth with an epidural the first time, natural but hospital birth the second time and unassisted at home childbirth the last & final time. I was told that with the first child, there was a 50/50 chance I'd have to have a C-Section, so I learned to accept that as a viable option, if necessary. I am not better than anyone else, but I have also experienced childbirth in more than just one way and all of my children are healthy. It is a woman's right to have the type of birth that she desires and feels she can handle as a woman & a mother. The same goes for bottle feeding vs. breastfeeding, etc. Education is key, but what works for one woman/family does not work for another.
It really irritates me when a health care practitioner acts as if their way is the only way. As far as medical doctors & pharmacists are concerned (for the most part), they are taught that their way is the only way. It is supported by the pharmaceutical & insurance companies so that there is a lack of cross education about other forms of healing. I do not blame the MDs or the pharmacists for their stance, however, I do wish they would recognize in themselves the very one-sided nature of their education & views.
This happens on the natural health care side also. I just ran across one the other day, who was poo-pooing anything that he did not promote & was bad-mouthing an otherwise respectable MD. I did some checking, including his website & biography, made some calls and found out what his expertise was based on and what agenda was about. After that, I "ran like crazy" the other way.
What is not being promoted in this country is INTEGRATIVE medicine, where the best of all forms of healing could come together in balance. Where an MD would have the correct, unbiased information, instead of what was taught by a system that needs to keep the drug & insurance companies happy. Christian Northrup is one of those integrative MDs.
In choosing doctors for my family, we have alway sought out MDs that allow parents to educate themselves and are willing to think outside the box. That's why I don't go to a local pediatrician, but drive a really long way when we need to see one. For generic purposes, I do see a local integrative MD here for the kids when absolutely needed.
There are really safe supplement companies out there. Acting as if every supplement should be treated as if dangerous but that drugs are so well-tested is false. "Historical nightmares such as thalidomide and sulfanilimide" aren't so far in the past at all. Vioxx & other NSAIDs? Fen Phen? Anyone really look into the long term affects of overprescribed antibiotics? Why are their national ads warning people not to take antibiotics for every infection they have? (http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/anti_resist.html) Anyone can & should go to www.fda.gov/medwatch & research the drugs and even sign up for their alerts. It's enlightening. The simple fact is that the consumer needs to educate herself regarding drugs & supplements equally. BOTH can be used SAFELY and EFFECTIVELY when the consumer is well-educated on the subject but both are DANGEROUS when used without any form of self-education.
The statement about ginseng and pregnant women.... If you look on the back of random supplement bottles, if there is a remote chance of any kind of reaction in a pregnant woman or with the fetus, the bottle will say, "If you are pregnant or nursing, please consult your healthcare provider before taking this product." And if there is a known reaction, it will say, "Do not use this product if you are pregnant or nursing." Again, consumers need to research & educate themselves, not expect anything & everything that they are told is safe to truly be safe.
I was talking with an MD last night about a drug and its effects on his patient. We were talking about the fact that one person's biological make-up is different from another person's, so one person will react differently to the exact same drug, that it's not an exact science. The same goes for supplements, herbs, hormones & homeopathy.
To each individual, responsibility for your health & healing is ultimately yours. Don't let anyone tell you any different.
Number one: Christian Northrup is incredible. Any woman's "library" should include "Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom," at least. I've had it since 1994 and continuously refer to it, as I grow up
, which will never completely happen.Number two: To lump everyone into a category that can be covered under one method of healing only is ludicrous. It is an incorrect to say that all people can be treated allopathically as it is to say that all people can be treated with hormones, herbs or another therapy.
For example, I do better on homeopathic remedies & more gentle therapies. I choose them over herbs, supplements & pharmaceuticals, but I usually work in that order if I need something other than a homeopathic. However, other people do better with another form of therapy. It should be their right to choose what therapy works best for them.
To say anything different is like telling women their only choice in childbirth is to have a Cesaerean, or (on the opposite end) that natural, homebirth is the only real way to have a child. That takes away the rights of the individual.
NOTE: I have went through childbirth with an epidural the first time, natural but hospital birth the second time and unassisted at home childbirth the last & final time. I was told that with the first child, there was a 50/50 chance I'd have to have a C-Section, so I learned to accept that as a viable option, if necessary. I am not better than anyone else, but I have also experienced childbirth in more than just one way and all of my children are healthy. It is a woman's right to have the type of birth that she desires and feels she can handle as a woman & a mother. The same goes for bottle feeding vs. breastfeeding, etc. Education is key, but what works for one woman/family does not work for another.
It really irritates me when a health care practitioner acts as if their way is the only way. As far as medical doctors & pharmacists are concerned (for the most part), they are taught that their way is the only way. It is supported by the pharmaceutical & insurance companies so that there is a lack of cross education about other forms of healing. I do not blame the MDs or the pharmacists for their stance, however, I do wish they would recognize in themselves the very one-sided nature of their education & views.
This happens on the natural health care side also. I just ran across one the other day, who was poo-pooing anything that he did not promote & was bad-mouthing an otherwise respectable MD. I did some checking, including his website & biography, made some calls and found out what his expertise was based on and what agenda was about. After that, I "ran like crazy" the other way.
What is not being promoted in this country is INTEGRATIVE medicine, where the best of all forms of healing could come together in balance. Where an MD would have the correct, unbiased information, instead of what was taught by a system that needs to keep the drug & insurance companies happy. Christian Northrup is one of those integrative MDs.
In choosing doctors for my family, we have alway sought out MDs that allow parents to educate themselves and are willing to think outside the box. That's why I don't go to a local pediatrician, but drive a really long way when we need to see one. For generic purposes, I do see a local integrative MD here for the kids when absolutely needed.
There are really safe supplement companies out there. Acting as if every supplement should be treated as if dangerous but that drugs are so well-tested is false. "Historical nightmares such as thalidomide and sulfanilimide" aren't so far in the past at all. Vioxx & other NSAIDs? Fen Phen? Anyone really look into the long term affects of overprescribed antibiotics? Why are their national ads warning people not to take antibiotics for every infection they have? (http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/anti_resist.html) Anyone can & should go to www.fda.gov/medwatch & research the drugs and even sign up for their alerts. It's enlightening. The simple fact is that the consumer needs to educate herself regarding drugs & supplements equally. BOTH can be used SAFELY and EFFECTIVELY when the consumer is well-educated on the subject but both are DANGEROUS when used without any form of self-education.
The statement about ginseng and pregnant women.... If you look on the back of random supplement bottles, if there is a remote chance of any kind of reaction in a pregnant woman or with the fetus, the bottle will say, "If you are pregnant or nursing, please consult your healthcare provider before taking this product." And if there is a known reaction, it will say, "Do not use this product if you are pregnant or nursing." Again, consumers need to research & educate themselves, not expect anything & everything that they are told is safe to truly be safe.
I was talking with an MD last night about a drug and its effects on his patient. We were talking about the fact that one person's biological make-up is different from another person's, so one person will react differently to the exact same drug, that it's not an exact science. The same goes for supplements, herbs, hormones & homeopathy.
To each individual, responsibility for your health & healing is ultimately yours. Don't let anyone tell you any different.
Beach Fanatic
A really good resource for info on natural hormone therapy is www.torihudson.com and even searching through Bastyr's website at www.bastyr.edu. I just called the American Association of Naturapathic Medicine, after being on the phone with Emerita, one of the leading manufacturers of natural hormone replacement. They recommended the above websites.
Emerita used to have naturopaths that would assist consumers, including working with the MDs to find a viable, individual solution. I used them regarding one of our daughters and they didn't have an answer within their products, but directed me towards a prescription that I discussed with our pediatrician & he agreed it was the best answer at the time. Their support really aided me in unknown territory regarding hormones.
Personally, I am still nursing, so I don't take anything. I'm 35 & have PMS but that's about it.
There's a CNM in Pensacola that I am going to see very soon for well-woman check-ups. I have her name & number on a piece of paper in my files and can find it if anyone needs it. She was recommended by a direct-entry midwife when I inquired about check-ups.
My family has a history of "female" cancers, including breast, cervical & ovarian cancers. I don't consume soy anymore on any level past a condiment because I do not digest well and there are complications regarding breast cancer associated with it. It's too iffy for me.
I have to cut this short for the car-pool line, but this about covers it, anyway.
Emerita used to have naturopaths that would assist consumers, including working with the MDs to find a viable, individual solution. I used them regarding one of our daughters and they didn't have an answer within their products, but directed me towards a prescription that I discussed with our pediatrician & he agreed it was the best answer at the time. Their support really aided me in unknown territory regarding hormones.
Personally, I am still nursing, so I don't take anything. I'm 35 & have PMS but that's about it.
There's a CNM in Pensacola that I am going to see very soon for well-woman check-ups. I have her name & number on a piece of paper in my files and can find it if anyone needs it. She was recommended by a direct-entry midwife when I inquired about check-ups.
My family has a history of "female" cancers, including breast, cervical & ovarian cancers. I don't consume soy anymore on any level past a condiment because I do not digest well and there are complications regarding breast cancer associated with it. It's too iffy for me.
I have to cut this short for the car-pool line, but this about covers it, anyway.
SoWal GuideAuthor
thanks so much OM. I think you said it all very well, and I love this statement best:
She also mentioned the fact that some natural products are illegally prescribed and you may not know that you are purchasing illegal substances. I do know that the FDA (backed by a major pharmaceutical company) is in the process of cracking down on certain compounded estrogens which are being considered a drug in need of regulation (and in need of major marketing by a pharmaceutical I would imagine). I do not have much information on this legal process or what it entails. But, I do know that leading healthcare proponents are very concerned about the outcome, and how it will limit bhrt choices for women.
Let's be clear here we are talking about women's health issues and a range of established hormone replacement therapies under the supervision of your medical doctor, and in conjunction with reputable pharmacies. I felt this was clear from the beginning, but want to make it crystal clear for all. please feel free to give and take on this forum. every woman so far has had a different kind of therapy, and I'm so happy to see all the many choices we have in preserving health in mid-life.
Cork does bring up some questions though that we all need to check out. While we must work with our doctors to find the best solutions currently available for our own situation and health, the field of HRT, whether bioidentical, natural or synthesized, is still in need of much clinical study. While doctors and scientists have a lot to teach us about hormones and how they effect our health from teen years to old age, I am finding that long term studies in women's health is rather limited. we have a wealth of health resources available though, as we have discovered just on this thread, if you are up to the task.
What is not being promoted in this country is INTEGRATIVE medicine, where the best of all forms of healing could come together in balance. Where an MD would have the correct, unbiased information, instead of what was taught by a system that needs to keep the drug & insurance companies happy. Christian Northrup is one of those integrative MDs.I talked to cork yesterday at length, and her concerns are mainly dealing with the use of natural/supplemental products prescribed by doctors or healthcare professionals who are in product sales and not necessarily in it for your health. the anti-aging industry is huge and includes a number of quacks, no surprise, so beware.
She also mentioned the fact that some natural products are illegally prescribed and you may not know that you are purchasing illegal substances. I do know that the FDA (backed by a major pharmaceutical company) is in the process of cracking down on certain compounded estrogens which are being considered a drug in need of regulation (and in need of major marketing by a pharmaceutical I would imagine). I do not have much information on this legal process or what it entails. But, I do know that leading healthcare proponents are very concerned about the outcome, and how it will limit bhrt choices for women.
Let's be clear here we are talking about women's health issues and a range of established hormone replacement therapies under the supervision of your medical doctor, and in conjunction with reputable pharmacies. I felt this was clear from the beginning, but want to make it crystal clear for all. please feel free to give and take on this forum. every woman so far has had a different kind of therapy, and I'm so happy to see all the many choices we have in preserving health in mid-life.
Cork does bring up some questions though that we all need to check out. While we must work with our doctors to find the best solutions currently available for our own situation and health, the field of HRT, whether bioidentical, natural or synthesized, is still in need of much clinical study. While doctors and scientists have a lot to teach us about hormones and how they effect our health from teen years to old age, I am finding that long term studies in women's health is rather limited. we have a wealth of health resources available though, as we have discovered just on this thread, if you are up to the task.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Toots, I totally agree with you. There are so many options out there that women need to be super-educated. For so long, medical research was done for the benefit of men, particulary men of European descent. Research related to cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc. was relevant only to a small segment of society because it didn't take into account all the various factors that go into a person's personal, cultural & ethnic history.
It's a pretty well-known fact that MDs education about drugs, both primary & secondary, is via the very pharmaceutical companies promoting & selling the products. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E4DD1E38F93BA25752C1A9659C8B63 That is only one article in the NY Times. I wanted to show that this knowledge is mainstream, not just some hippified hooey, as some would like the masses to believe.
This isn't any less dangerous than slick, anti-aging gurus, which, of course, are very much out there. Making MDs sound like un-biased demi-gods that know everything and can make their decisions without the prejudice of their background, which is by its very nature based on drugs and surgery, is why I am offering both sides of the coin, instead of just a one-sided version of the reality of today's health care system.
I don't believe that the mass-marketing of anything as a magic bullet is remotely worth believing. There is a skin care company that promotes it's own progesterone creme as the end all and be all... the solution for every woman. Their stance is: Get every woman on the progesterone creme & you will have a customer for life. Having uneducated consumers who don't know more than what the company is telling them, selling a product that contain precursers for very strong hormones is absolutely nuts.
Pharmaceutical companies are also looking for lifetime consumers of their products. That's why they keep coming out with new, slick drugs. If I ever consider taking a drug for restless leg syndrome, shoot my butt instead. A bit of relaxation would cure more than another drug to take in that instance.
Personally, I don't choose an OB/Gyn. I have seen them but find that a midwife meets my needs far more than an MD. I wish that the health care system was balanced enough that the same types of midwives that I would choose for my prenatal care were allowed to give me well-woman check-ups, but they aren't. So, my views on my health as a female don't come from a relationship with my MD.
When I worked in the natural health industry, I would not advise women on hormone therapy. I would refer them back to their healthcare provider and also at the time, Emerita had the NDs on staff that acted as advisers. I would give them their website and toll-free number. Hormone therapy is too sensitive a subject for someone with no expertise on the subject to be playing with. However, MDs are not the only reliable resource out there.
It's a pretty well-known fact that MDs education about drugs, both primary & secondary, is via the very pharmaceutical companies promoting & selling the products. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E4DD1E38F93BA25752C1A9659C8B63 That is only one article in the NY Times. I wanted to show that this knowledge is mainstream, not just some hippified hooey, as some would like the masses to believe.
This isn't any less dangerous than slick, anti-aging gurus, which, of course, are very much out there. Making MDs sound like un-biased demi-gods that know everything and can make their decisions without the prejudice of their background, which is by its very nature based on drugs and surgery, is why I am offering both sides of the coin, instead of just a one-sided version of the reality of today's health care system.
I don't believe that the mass-marketing of anything as a magic bullet is remotely worth believing. There is a skin care company that promotes it's own progesterone creme as the end all and be all... the solution for every woman. Their stance is: Get every woman on the progesterone creme & you will have a customer for life. Having uneducated consumers who don't know more than what the company is telling them, selling a product that contain precursers for very strong hormones is absolutely nuts.
Pharmaceutical companies are also looking for lifetime consumers of their products. That's why they keep coming out with new, slick drugs. If I ever consider taking a drug for restless leg syndrome, shoot my butt instead. A bit of relaxation would cure more than another drug to take in that instance.
Personally, I don't choose an OB/Gyn. I have seen them but find that a midwife meets my needs far more than an MD. I wish that the health care system was balanced enough that the same types of midwives that I would choose for my prenatal care were allowed to give me well-woman check-ups, but they aren't. So, my views on my health as a female don't come from a relationship with my MD.
When I worked in the natural health industry, I would not advise women on hormone therapy. I would refer them back to their healthcare provider and also at the time, Emerita had the NDs on staff that acted as advisers. I would give them their website and toll-free number. Hormone therapy is too sensitive a subject for someone with no expertise on the subject to be playing with. However, MDs are not the only reliable resource out there.
Edited
SoWal Expert
My former OB/GYN n Louisville has written a book "The Venus Week" that many of you may find interesting.
I have known her for a long time, she delivered both of our kids, and I always was so impressed at how healthy and wonderful she looked and kept her life together through having her own children and a busy practice- always a source of inspiration.
I have heard this book has helpful info for those heading towards menopause, not just the gals still having the "Venus weeks"!
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Venus-Week-Discover-Powerful-Cycle-at/dp/0738211648/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210703258&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: The Venus Week: Discover the Powerful Secret of Your Cycle...at Any Age: M.D. Rebecca Booth: Books[/ame]
I have known her for a long time, she delivered both of our kids, and I always was so impressed at how healthy and wonderful she looked and kept her life together through having her own children and a busy practice- always a source of inspiration.
I have heard this book has helpful info for those heading towards menopause, not just the gals still having the "Venus weeks"!
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Venus-Week-Discover-Powerful-Cycle-at/dp/0738211648/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210703258&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: The Venus Week: Discover the Powerful Secret of Your Cycle...at Any Age: M.D. Rebecca Booth: Books[/ame]
SoWal GuideAuthor
My former OB/GYN n Louisville has written a book "The Venus Week" that many of you may find interesting.
I have known her for a long time, she delivered both of our kids, and I always was so impressed at how healthy and wonderful she looked and kept her life together through having her own children and a busy practice- always a source of inspiration.
I have heard this book has helpful info for those heading towards menopause, not just the gals still having the "Venus weeks"!
http://www.amazon.com/Venus-Week-Di...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210703258&sr=8-1
well, I may be past the venus week phase, but she includes information for every life stage -- the book appears to have a comprehensive look at women's health and hormones for every phase of life, and includes some nutrition and recipes as well.
looks like an excellent resource jdarg - thanks!!!
Beach Fanatic
Why the hail do we only have 1 Venus week and 2 Minerva weeks????????????
That's not fair, but so dang true!!!!
I will never look at my cycle the same....Thanks, JDarg, now we have something else to laugh about in our version of the carpool line.
Skunky
Toots, I totally agree with you. There are so many options out there that women need to be super-educated. For so long, medical research was done for the benefit of men, particulary men of European descent. Research related to cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc. was relevant only to a small segment of society because it didn't take into account all the various factors that go into a person's personal, cultural & ethnic history.
It's a pretty well-known fact that MDs education about drugs, both primary & secondary, is via the very pharmaceutical companies promoting & selling the products. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E4DD1E38F93BA25752C1A9659C8B63 That is only one article in the NY Times. I wanted to show that this knowledge is mainstream, not just some hippified hooey, as some would like the masses to believe.
This isn't any less dangerous than slick, anti-aging gurus, which, of course, are very much out there. Making MDs sound like un-biased demi-gods that know everything and can make their decisions without the prejudice of their background, which is by its very nature based on drugs and surgery, is why I am offering both sides of the coin, instead of just a one-sided version of the reality of today's health care system.
I don't believe that the mass-marketing of anything as a magic bullet is remotely worth believing. There is a skin care company that promotes it's own progesterone creme as the end all and be all... the solution for every woman. Their stance is: Get every woman on the progesterone creme & you will have a customer for life. Having uneducated consumers who don't know more than what the company is telling them, selling a product that contain precursers for very strong hormones is absolutely nuts.
Pharmaceutical companies are also looking for lifetime consumers of their products. That's why they keep coming out with new, slick drugs. If I ever consider taking a drug for restless leg syndrome, shoot my butt instead. A bit of relaxation would cure more than another drug to take in that instance.
Personally, I don't choose an OB/Gyn. I have seen them but find that a midwife meets my needs far more than an MD. I wish that the health care system was balanced enough that the same types of midwives that I would choose for my prenatal care were allowed to give me well-woman check-ups, but they aren't. So, my views on my health as a female don't come from a relationship with my MD.
When I worked in the natural health industry, I would not advise women on hormone therapy. I would refer them back to their healthcare provider and also at the time, Emerita had the NDs on staff that acted as advisers. I would give them their website and toll-free number. Hormone therapy is too sensitive a subject for someone with no expertise on the subject to be playing with. However, MDs are not the only reliable resource out there.
This isn't exactly true. Most of what allopaths and osteopaths learn about drugs occurs during a pharmacology course in med school. This is the foundation for countless hours spent in post graduate clinics and wards prescribing. Usually these settings serve the indigent so there isn't much time spent hobnobbing with drug reps discussing the latest and greatest anti-hypertensive over a filet mignon lunch. It is after all the training when the relentless drug rep solicitation begins. The article is right, they present lots of (usually biased) studies and slick marketing junk trying to justify the use of one pill for hypertension and heart failure that costs $125 per month when (and if one bothers to look) it has not been proven superior to any of three meds in the same class available for $4 a month at Wal-Mart. I subscribe to the Medical Letter, a non-profit newsletter that gives readers a heads up regarding the newest drugs hitting the market comparing them in efficacy and cost to those already available. Anyone can subscribe at themedicalletter.org.
By the way, you can kiss restless leg syndrome goodbye-the patent for Reliquip expired this week so the generics are on the way. No more marketing to make you aware of RLS:roll:
OK, back to your Venus and Minerva stuff:leaving:
Beach Fanatic
This isn't exactly true. Most of what allopaths and osteopaths learn about drugs occurs during a pharmacology course in med school. This is the foundation for countless hours spent in post graduate clinics and wards prescribing. Usually these settings serve the indigent so there isn't much time spent hobnobbing with drug reps discussing the latest and greatest anti-hypertensive over a filet mignon lunch. It is after all the training when the relentless drug rep solicitation begins. The article is right, they present lots of (usually biased) studies and slick marketing junk trying to justify the use of one pill for hypertension and heart failure that costs $125 per month when (and if one bothers to look) it has not been proven superior to any of three meds in the same class available for $4 a month at Wal-Mart. I subscribe to the Medical Letter, a non-profit newsletter that gives readers a heads up regarding the newest drugs hitting the market comparing them in efficacy and cost to those already available. Anyone can subscribe at themedicalletter.org.
By the way, you can kiss restless leg syndrome goodbye-the patent for Reliquip expired this week so the generics are on the way. No more marketing to make you aware of RLS:roll:
OK, back to your Venus and Minerva stuff:leaving:
Skunky, thanks for the info.
Glad I don't have to watch any more commercials that make me think my RLS is something I need to cure.
I'll happily wiggle my legs to sleep each night or eventually get off coffee, my drug of choice.Beach Crab
Natural Hormone Therapy
Hi everyone,
Just want to drop a note on the benefits of hormone replacement therapy for men and women for the prevention of diseases and rejuvenation.
Natural Estrogens and Progesterone are tremendously important for the optimal function of all organs and systems. There is a wealth of published medical literature regarding the benefits of hormone replacement and the relation to the prevention of age related disease inclulding breast cancer, osteoporosis, dementia and heart disease. We age because of the decline of hormone levels. I strongly recommend measuring your levels in the urine or saliva to determine accurately the need of replacement. Blood levels are not a good source for measurement. For further information please visit our website and I will be happy to send information on this topic.
Rodney D. Soto, M.D.
www.yyinstitute.com
Hi everyone,
Just want to drop a note on the benefits of hormone replacement therapy for men and women for the prevention of diseases and rejuvenation.
Natural Estrogens and Progesterone are tremendously important for the optimal function of all organs and systems. There is a wealth of published medical literature regarding the benefits of hormone replacement and the relation to the prevention of age related disease inclulding breast cancer, osteoporosis, dementia and heart disease. We age because of the decline of hormone levels. I strongly recommend measuring your levels in the urine or saliva to determine accurately the need of replacement. Blood levels are not a good source for measurement. For further information please visit our website and I will be happy to send information on this topic.
Rodney D. Soto, M.D.
www.yyinstitute.com
Beach Fanatic
Hi everyone,
Just want to drop a note on the benefits of hormone replacement therapy for men and women for the prevention of diseases and rejuvenation.
Natural Estrogens and Progesterone are tremendously important for the optimal function of all organs and systems. There is a wealth of published medical literature regarding the benefits of hormone replacement and the relation to the prevention of age related disease inclulding breast cancer, osteoporosis, dementia and heart disease. We age because of the decline of hormone levels. I strongly recommend measuring your levels in the urine or saliva to determine accurately the need of replacement. Blood levels are not a good source for measurement. For further information please visit our website and I will be happy to send information on this topic.
Rodney D. Soto, M.D.
www.yyinstitute.com
Mr. OM had the saliva tests for adrenals that showed his are extremely LOW & work pretty much opposite what they are supposed to (low in AM, drop to nil at around noon & jump up above normal at night). "Regular blood tests" showed none of this. Of course, health insurance did not pay for the test to be done because it's not part of their standard procedure. According to mainstream medicine, he's a healthy guy, covered with eczema from head to toe (all of 6'1" of him) & he's either gotta live in a bubble or take steroids for the rest of his life.....
Edited
Skunky
Hi everyone,
Just want to drop a note on the benefits of hormone replacement therapy for men and women for the prevention of diseases and rejuvenation.
Natural Estrogens and Progesterone are tremendously important for the optimal function of all organs and systems. There is a wealth of published medical literature regarding the benefits of hormone replacement and the relation to the prevention of age related disease inclulding breast cancer, osteoporosis, dementia and heart disease. We age because of the decline of hormone levels. I strongly recommend measuring your levels in the urine or saliva to determine accurately the need of replacement. Blood levels are not a good source for measurement. For further information please visit our website and I will be happy to send information on this topic.
Rodney D. Soto, M.D.
www.yyinstitute.com
Are you an endocrinologist?Beach Crab
Natural Hormone Therapy
Mr. OM has a classic example of adrenal fatigue. He also presents symptoms of inmune reactivity. All his problems can be corrected by balancing his hormonal function including adrenal (DHEA) and Testosterone. Gastrointestinal health is required for optimal inmune function. Bringing him back to a state of health would avoid the use of longterm steroids.
I am a board certified neurologist and anti-aging physician with extensive expertise in brain and endocrine function for optimal health. By maintaining balance of the brain, glands and gastrointestinal system optimal health can be achieved. It is unfortunate that conventional doctors specialize in a particular area or system rather than approaching the patient in a holistic and integrated way.
Rodney D. Soto, M.D.
Mr. OM has a classic example of adrenal fatigue. He also presents symptoms of inmune reactivity. All his problems can be corrected by balancing his hormonal function including adrenal (DHEA) and Testosterone. Gastrointestinal health is required for optimal inmune function. Bringing him back to a state of health would avoid the use of longterm steroids.
I am a board certified neurologist and anti-aging physician with extensive expertise in brain and endocrine function for optimal health. By maintaining balance of the brain, glands and gastrointestinal system optimal health can be achieved. It is unfortunate that conventional doctors specialize in a particular area or system rather than approaching the patient in a holistic and integrated way.
Rodney D. Soto, M.D.
Skunky
I thought this was relevant to this thread:
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) sent letters warning seven pharmacy operations that the claims they make about the safety and effectiveness of their so-called "bio-identical hormone replacement therapy," or "BHRT" products are unsupported by medical evidence, and are considered false and misleading by the agency. FDA is concerned that unfounded claims like these mislead women and health care professionals.
http://www.pharmwatch.org/reg/bioidentical.shtml
caveat emporum!
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) sent letters warning seven pharmacy operations that the claims they make about the safety and effectiveness of their so-called "bio-identical hormone replacement therapy," or "BHRT" products are unsupported by medical evidence, and are considered false and misleading by the agency. FDA is concerned that unfounded claims like these mislead women and health care professionals.
http://www.pharmwatch.org/reg/bioidentical.shtml
caveat emporum!
Beach Fanatic
I thought this was relevant to this thread:
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) sent letters warning seven pharmacy operations that the claims they make about the safety and effectiveness of their so-called "bio-identical hormone replacement therapy," or "BHRT" products are unsupported by medical evidence, and are considered false and misleading by the agency. FDA is concerned that unfounded claims like these mislead women and health care professionals.
http://www.pharmwatch.org/reg/bioidentical.shtml
caveat emporum!
I'm sorry, Skunky, but consider the source. He's obviously biased, as per usual. Both sides of the story on the safety and efficiacy of drugs versus natural therapies need to be shown, not just one side.
Let's look at some FDA regulated, considered "safe" forms of hormones:
http://www.orthoevra.com/orthoevra/faq.html
Serious as well as minor side effects have been reported with the use of the Patch. Serious risks, which can be life threatening, include blood clots, stroke and heart attacks and are increased if you smoke cigarettes. Cigarette smoking increases the risk of serious cardiovascular side effects, especially if you are over 35. Women who use the Patch are strongly advised not to smoke. Some women should not use the Patch, including women who have blood clots, certain cancers, a history of heart attack or stroke, as well as those who are or may be pregnant.
Hormones from patches applied to the skin get into the blood stream and are removed from the body differently than hormones from birth control pills taken by mouth. You will be exposed to about 60% more estrogen if you use ORTHO EVRA than if you use a typical birth control pill containing 35 micrograms (mcg) of estrogen. In general, increased estrogen exposure may increase the risk of side effects. The risk of venous thromboembolic disease (blood clots in the legs and/or the lungs) may be increased with ORTHO EVRA compared with that of a birth control pill containing norgestimate and 35 mcg of estrogen. One study found a doubling of this risk and another study found no increased risk.
http://www.birthcontrolpatchsideeffects.com/
And there's tons more about the legal issues going on regarding this drug that is considered safe & effective and used by women because their physician recommends it.
PLUS,
http://www.ombwatch.org/article/articleview/3728 (Don't get started on the OMBs PLEASE!!!
)http://www.naturalnews.com/019497.html
Beach Fanatic
I thought this was relevant to this thread:
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) sent letters warning seven pharmacy operations that the claims they make about the safety and effectiveness of their so-called "bio-identical hormone replacement therapy," or "BHRT" products are unsupported by medical evidence, and are considered false and misleading by the agency. FDA is concerned that unfounded claims like these mislead women and health care professionals.
http://www.pharmwatch.org/reg/bioidentical.shtml
caveat emporum!
I'm not inclined to believe the FDA - Please take the time to read the link to this article - http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/1/prweb624561.htm
Skunky
I'm sorry, Skunky, but consider the source. He's obviously biased, as per usual. Both sides of the story on the safety and efficiacy of drugs versus natural therapies need to be shown, not just one side.
Let's look at some FDA regulated, considered "safe" forms of hormones:
http://www.orthoevra.com/orthoevra/faq.html
Serious as well as minor side effects have been reported with the use of the Patch. Serious risks, which can be life threatening, include blood clots, stroke and heart attacks and are increased if you smoke cigarettes. Cigarette smoking increases the risk of serious cardiovascular side effects, especially if you are over 35. Women who use the Patch are strongly advised not to smoke. Some women should not use the Patch, including women who have blood clots, certain cancers, a history of heart attack or stroke, as well as those who are or may be pregnant.
Hormones from patches applied to the skin get into the blood stream and are removed from the body differently than hormones from birth control pills taken by mouth. You will be exposed to about 60% more estrogen if you use ORTHO EVRA than if you use a typical birth control pill containing 35 micrograms (mcg) of estrogen. In general, increased estrogen exposure may increase the risk of side effects. The risk of venous thromboembolic disease (blood clots in the legs and/or the lungs) may be increased with ORTHO EVRA compared with that of a birth control pill containing norgestimate and 35 mcg of estrogen. One study found a doubling of this risk and another study found no increased risk.
http://www.birthcontrolpatchsideeffects.com/
And there's tons more about the legal issues going on regarding this drug that is considered safe & effective and used by women because their physician recommends it.
PLUS,
http://www.ombwatch.org/article/articleview/3728 (Don't get started on the OMBs PLEASE!!!
http://www.naturalnews.com/019497.html
I'm not inclined to believe the FDA - Please take the time to read the link to this article - http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/1/prweb624561.htm
'He' is the FDA. If you believe they are biased, so be it, but I encourage you to consider the facts they present as you consider your options.
Do you imply that there is something unsafe about Ortho Evra because concurrent use of the natural herb tobacco
biggrin increases a woman's potential to go into a hypercoaguable state? I think the culprit is the HERB!All I am urging you guys to do is not take a sales pitch hook, line and sinker, especially when there isn't good data to back up what you are paying for or putting into your body. What is so radical about that?
Beach Fanatic
'He' is the FDA. If you believe they are biased, so be it, but I encourage you to consider the facts they present as you consider your options.
Do you imply that there is something unsafe about Ortho Evra because concurrent use of the natural herb tobacco
All I am urging you guys to do is not take a sales pitch hook, line and sinker, especially when there isn't good data to back up what you are paying for or putting into your body. What is so radical about that?
I agree that nobody should take a sales pitch hook, line and sinker. Speaking only for myself - I have done exhaustive research on the subject of bioidentical hormones, weighed the pros and cons, and made the decision that was best for me. I urge everyone else to do the same.
Skunky
I agree that nobody should take a sales pitch hook, line and sinker. Speaking only for myself - I have done exhaustive research on the subject of bioidentical hormones, weighed the pros and cons, and made the decision that was best for me. I urge everyone else to do the same.
That is how it should be, and I congratulate you. Sadly, I think you are atypical.
Beach Fanatic
'He' is the FDA. If you believe they are biased, so be it, but I encourage you to consider the facts they present as you consider your options.
Do you imply that there is something unsafe about Ortho Evra because concurrent use of the natural herb tobacco
All I am urging you guys to do is not take a sales pitch hook, line and sinker, especially when there isn't good data to back up what you are paying for or putting into your body. What is so radical about that?
I am saying that for both sides. Caution should be used, whichever choice is made for the patient/consumer, be it supplements or drugs. Just believing something as fact because the FDA said it's true is just as crazy. Skunky, I am a skeptic for it all, although I tend to use more natural things. However, I am very, very cautious and hope that others are too.
Geez, I can't even remember to take a 1/day multivitamin, that's why I'd rather eat higher quality food and know that I am still getting some nutrients from them.
Beach Fanatic
That is how it should be, and I congratulate you. Sadly, I think you are atypical.
You're probably right, but I also shake my head in frustration when patients believe hook, line and sinker everything their doctor says, as if it's from God. Checking everything out and being an informed consumer is the most important factor. Being an idiot that just goes along with whatever advertisement or advice comes along is absurd.
Beach Fanatic
Skunky, I have a very direct question that I hope you'll answer.
Why do you tow the hard-core, everything the FDA says is gold and anything from a holistic POV is crap?
It's just puzzling to me because you are very intelligent and well-read, but you pooh-pooh anything that you deem not mainstream. It's "The FDA says this..." and "The FDA says that..." then "caveat emporum!" on anything that you don't agree on, especially supplements.
In my time as a parent, our kids have had 3 pediatricians because of different geographical locations. All are in mainstream practices and see a wide range of patients, but allow the patient's parent to educate themselves without coming down on them harshly for making a decision outside what the FDA says or the American Academy of Pediatrics says. Honestly, the first one used to say, "Here is what the AAP wants me to tell all my patients... and here is what I tell my educated parents..." It was refreshing. The second one actually had books on natural healing there to reference as options to the parents, from supplements to herbs to homeopathy. They wrote prescriptions when need be, even gave them out to parents who wanted nothing but drugs and could care less about other forms of healing. But the point is they EXPLORED other options freely and allowed parents to do the same.
I don't agree with the current healthcare system in the United States. It's all about drugs or sugery. It's so short-sighted. To me, integrative medicine that balances allopathic with holistic forms of healing is ideal. Then a patient can go to one practitioner for their whole health, instead of having to see an MD and the go see an herbalist or nutritionist on the side. The only thing that is going to help change that is if it changes from within. I don't blame you or any other MD for the way that you practice medicine or even for the whole damn fiasco that's going on in healthcare today. It's bigger than you and me. I just wish you'd be more open & not so freaking black and white on things. You've got people that are honestly seeking info and look to you because you are an MD and you robotically respond negatively to anything not endorsed by the FDA.
There's good, bad and ugly on both sides, Skunky. Promoting that drugs are the only safe way to go is a giant crock of bat turds, to put it bluntly.
Why do you tow the hard-core, everything the FDA says is gold and anything from a holistic POV is crap?
It's just puzzling to me because you are very intelligent and well-read, but you pooh-pooh anything that you deem not mainstream. It's "The FDA says this..." and "The FDA says that..." then "caveat emporum!" on anything that you don't agree on, especially supplements.In my time as a parent, our kids have had 3 pediatricians because of different geographical locations. All are in mainstream practices and see a wide range of patients, but allow the patient's parent to educate themselves without coming down on them harshly for making a decision outside what the FDA says or the American Academy of Pediatrics says. Honestly, the first one used to say, "Here is what the AAP wants me to tell all my patients... and here is what I tell my educated parents..." It was refreshing. The second one actually had books on natural healing there to reference as options to the parents, from supplements to herbs to homeopathy. They wrote prescriptions when need be, even gave them out to parents who wanted nothing but drugs and could care less about other forms of healing. But the point is they EXPLORED other options freely and allowed parents to do the same.
I don't agree with the current healthcare system in the United States. It's all about drugs or sugery. It's so short-sighted. To me, integrative medicine that balances allopathic with holistic forms of healing is ideal. Then a patient can go to one practitioner for their whole health, instead of having to see an MD and the go see an herbalist or nutritionist on the side. The only thing that is going to help change that is if it changes from within. I don't blame you or any other MD for the way that you practice medicine or even for the whole damn fiasco that's going on in healthcare today. It's bigger than you and me. I just wish you'd be more open & not so freaking black and white on things. You've got people that are honestly seeking info and look to you because you are an MD and you robotically respond negatively to anything not endorsed by the FDA.
There's good, bad and ugly on both sides, Skunky. Promoting that drugs are the only safe way to go is a giant crock of bat turds, to put it bluntly.
Skunky
Skunky, I have a very direct question that I hope you'll answer.
You meant a looong question
Why do you tow the hard-core, everything the FDA says is gold and anything from a holistic POV is crap?
I don't tow any such line. How can you argue with the concept of caveat emporum? I guess my biggest concern with many of the alternative therapies is that I focus on outcomes, and the interventions I advocate have strong, non-biased outcome data backing them up. This data is so rare in the realm of alternative therapies, and indeed, when data that casts doubt upon the value of certain interventions or vitamins/herbs in doing anything valuable comes to light, the promoters of said alternative remedies dig in and insist there were flaws in testing, etc and still sell worthless products. That is my biggest obstacle with advocating more of the alternative stuff.
In my time as a parent, our kids have had 3 pediatricians because of different geographical locations. All are in mainstream practices and see a wide range of patients, but allow the patient's parent to educate themselves without coming down on them harshly for making a decision outside what the FDA says or the American Academy of Pediatrics says. Honestly, the first one used to say, "Here is what the AAP wants me to tell all my patients... and here is what I tell my educated parents..." It was refreshing. The second one actually had books on natural healing there to reference as options to the parents, from supplements to herbs to homeopathy. They wrote prescriptions when need be, even gave them out to parents who wanted nothing but drugs and could care less about other forms of healing. But the point is they EXPLORED other options freely and allowed parents to do the same.
Why do you assume I come down hard on parents who want to explore options not advocated by the AAP? To the contrary, I am way more liberal regarding pediatric interventions than most pediatricians. I am very blunt (politely) regarding the fact that every sniffle, cough or fever does not require Orapred and antibiotics. I dissuade parents from giving kids younger than 6 years cold remedies-they don't work! You know what I suggest for little ones (over two years) who have a nagging cough? A little honey at bedtime! It is just as effective as any OTC formulation, is way cheaper and poses no toxicity potential. You know what I suggest parents try to relieve colic? Fennel seed oil! By goodness, a Cuban mom told me that was what they used, and lo and behold, it works! You might also be surprised to know I have a comprehensive text of complementary and alternative medicine on my bookshelf, and I do use it with parents and adults as a tool to go over alternative remedies if they want to go that route. I have no problem with that, as long as I know they are not screwing around with a truly dangerous condition. Case in point, a Mexican national presented to Sacred Heart last month with a new diagnosis of AIDS and PCP pneumonia. With great effort, he was brought back to a state of health that was good enough to send him home. FREE antibiotics and anti-viral meds were arranged for him to pick up at the county health unit. Unfortunately, he didn't show up to his follow ups and represented to the ER about three weeks later with his PCP pneumonia worse than ever and bleeding from the GI tract. Now he is dead. His life was taken by some idiot in this community who convinced him they could provide him with an herbal concoction that was better then legitimate HIV meds and antibiotics-THAT is the kind of thing that I will not tolerate. Nor will I tolerate parents who do not allow their children to be vaccinated. That may sound cold, but that is my policy-I believe that shows a certain amount of ignorance and I have no tolerance for people who value their internet research over good public health policy. I simply tell them we obviously have incompatible philosophies on something I think is vital, thus it would be best if we severed our relationship and I give them a list of other providers.
I don't agree with the current healthcare system in the United States. It's all about drugs or sugery. It's so short-sighted. To me, integrative medicine that balances allopathic with holistic forms of healing is ideal. Then a patient can go to one practitioner for their whole health, instead of having to see an MD and the go see an herbalist or nutritionist on the side. The only thing that is going to help change that is if it changes from within. I don't blame you or any other MD for the way that you practice medicine or even for the whole damn fiasco that's going on in healthcare today. It's bigger than you and me. I just wish you'd be more open & not so freaking black and white on things. You've got people that are honestly seeking info and look to you because you are an MD and you robotically respond negatively to anything not endorsed by the FDA.
You will be relieved to know that I recognize 'polypharmacy' as an affliction and try to reduce medications as much as is possible. I don't do much in the way of surgery, and I don't know if we do too much of it or not (except c-sections, which for many different reasons we love in this country). I have no problem with people going to alternative providers, but I must tell you, many of the ones who do are on a staggering number of vitamins and supplements. Often times when I try to figure out why they are taking XYZ supplement they shrug unknowingly. I also encourage them to demand outcome data when they are paying big bucks for unorthodox therapy. For example, one of my kids has autism and his parents have spent an extraordinary amount of money on time spent in hyperbaric chambers and chelation treatments, neither of which have any documented efficacy in improving autism yet cost lots of $$$. I am incredibly open minded but I feel like it is my job to try to discourage quackery and (frankly) legalized stealing from desperate people.
There's good, bad and ugly on both sides, Skunky. Promoting that drugs are the only safe way to go is a giant crock of bat turds, to put it bluntly.
You will never see a single post in any of my 5000+ that says anything of the sort. I will buy you a wheat grass shot for every one you can document where I said anything of the sort
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