Obama: Police "Acted Stupidly" in Prof Arrest

Got pulled over by police in New Orleans who ran at me with hands on guns and told me to put my hands on the hood of my car. Kept my mouth shut and did what I was told until police realized I was not the guy robbing neighborhood Walgreens for Vicodin. At the time, I was seriously concerned that I was going to be shot dead in the street by the police in broad daylight one block from my house. Here's a tip for the good Harvard professor - when the police think you might have committed a crime, don't cause an escalation by being belligerent.

Complying to coercion as you did is never wrong, but kudos to the good professor for showing who's really in charge.

One last thought- I agree with you that you can everywhere/do whatever you want/not be perceived as dangerous because you are a young white female with a smile. But omit your race and the parts left (young female with a smile) still qualify you for "not dangerous" status in most people's eyes. It's as much (if not more) about age, attitude, gender than it is about race.

Gates's attitude is what got him hauled off. Not his age, gender or race. Cops don't like the "you don't know who you are messing with" mantra. It is like saying- "I triple dog dare you to put cuffs on me".

:idontno:

The last paragraph says it all.....no cop (or anyone else for that matter) likes to be put between a rock and a hard place, questioning his/her "authority".

Exactly. In fact, the last 2 paragraphs.

The last paragraph says it all.....no cop (or anyone else for that matter) likes to be put between a rock and a hard place, questioning his/her "authority".

:violin:

There is no legal requirement in this country to even possess ID let alone produce it.

Complying to coercion as you did is never wrong, but kudos to the good professor for showing who's really in charge.

Exactly! And the fact that people are overlooking is - yes, Gates initially said "no" when asked for ID, but then thought better of it, and produced his ID. At that point, seeing that Gates was a Harvard professor, the officer called campus security for back-up. Why did he need back up??? Then the officer asked him to come outside. Why did Gates need to go outside??? He had just proved, though with a bad attitude, that he was, in fact, the resident of that house, and that he was not breaking into it, and was not breaking any law. Why did the officer continue to escalate the situation???

I'll say it again, at that point the officer should have apologized for the misunderstanding, explained that that the neighbor had seen Mr. Gates struggling with the door and thought he was an intruder, and left. Mr. Gates is older, frail, uses a cane, did not present a physical threat, and is guilty of nothing more than being cantankerous. That is not a crime, and people seem to be forgetting that police officers are public servants who work for us, the law-abiding citizens. They swear to serve, protect, and defend, and when they fail to do those things, and deliberately do the opposite, they are in the wrong. I don't believe the officer should be reprimanded or disciplined, it is not serious enough for that. But he should be man enough to apologize for over-reacting to a crabby old man. IMO, race has nothing to do with it, except to Mr. Gates.

Yes, this whole thing seems silly when compared to the truly important issues of the day... it sure has touched a nerve though; seems like the whole country is debating this issue. It is refreshing to be debating something more important than the next American Idol winner, or where Brangelina should adopt next, even if it does nothing for health care or the economy.

Exactly! And the fact that people are overlooking is - yes, Gates initially said "no" when asked for ID, but then thought better of it, and produced his ID. At that point, seeing that Gates was a Harvard professor, the officer called campus security for back-up. Why did he need back up??? Then the officer asked him to come outside. Why did Gates need to go outside??? He had just proved, though with a bad attitude, that he was, in fact, the resident of that house, and that he was not breaking into it, and was not breaking any law. Why did the officer continue to escalate the situation???

I'll say it again, at that point the officer should have apologized for the misunderstanding, explained that that the neighbor had seen Mr. Gates struggling with the door and thought he was an intruder, and left. Mr. Gates is older, frail, uses a cane, did not present a physical threat, and is guilty of nothing more than being cantankerous. That is not a crime, and people seem to be forgetting that police officers are public servants who work for us, the law-abiding citizens. They swear to serve, protect, and defend, and when they fail to do those things, and deliberately do the opposite, they are in the wrong. I don't believe the officer should be reprimanded or disciplined, it is not serious enough for that. But he should be man enough to apologize for over-reacting to a crabby old man. IMO, race has nothing to do with it, except to Mr. Gates.

Yes, this whole thing seems silly when compared to the truly important issues of the day... it sure has touched a nerve though; seems like the whole country is debating this issue. It is refreshing to be debating something more important than the next American Idol winner, or where Brangelina should adopt next, even if it does nothing for health care or the economy.

It's the authoritarian attitude. Some people when they find out they are wrong they can't get over it. I was once up on my roof after heavy rain trying to figure out where my leaks were coming from. A policeman driving by was suspicious thinking I might be trying to break in (through the roof in broad daylight). He demanded that I show proof of residence by unlocking the door to the house. I complied. He walked away dumbfounded shaking his head muttering that he'd never seen anybody up on their roof before. Some of these officers need to learn more about how the world works.

I hope if someone reports me breaking into my house and the police show up and confront me, that the police ask me for an id and proof that it was my home. I will gladly and happily comply. Isn't that what a reasonable response would be or is the complete issue being Black in America. If so, ssb has the right question, imo.

I wonder if all the horrified peeps up in arms over this are the same ones that give attitude when a shop owner asks to see their id during a cc purchase. To me, it's all safeguards.

In the case of the shop owner there is a mutual exchange of value, so it makes sense for the customer to comply. When the customer is dealing with a police officer, complying with his request for ID yields nothing of value, unless you consider the value of not being rudely jerked around and pucked with.

My husband takes off duty officers, mostly Sargeants, with him 3X a week for the past 25 years for security purposes for his business when they collect money. Most of them want to do their 20 years peacefully and stay under the radar regarding the inter-police politics. But then there are some that do go into it to become cowboys, have inferiority complexes and want a job with power. He's riding with one now temporarily until his steady officer comes back. :roll:

He was responsible for having a moving violation rule changed regarding commercial vehicles because 1) it produces a large revenue stream for the dept in fines, 2) so it makes it easier for them to pull over commercial vehicles to check for illegals riding in them. He was able to push his racial profiling agenda in a legal manner. So, yes, it exists, but on the flip side, at least here, in a situation such as this, many officers have told my husband when ID is required, you request it from everybody to avoid any air of racial profiling, even a 4 yr. old boy, they told him jokingly.

I'm not sure how long the Professor has lived in his neighborhood, but he could have simply provided the ID, asked who called so he could thank them personally for being "neighborly", and called it a day. The neighbors probably do not know who he is because he may not be a sociable kind of guy, they may be racists themselves, (hence maybe where his original frustration may have stemmed from) or he is a snoot. :idontno:

If you don't think AA do not racially segregate themselves, take a trip to Martha's Vineyard in the summer, particularly Oak Bluffs where middle-upper class AA professionals stay; and MV is about as liberal as one can get. Matter of fact, several Harvard Professors summer there. A friend just returned (whose AA) and told me that they were dismissive of other AA who they didn't feel had the same credentials. She was not invited a to party that another family she was visiting was invited to and thought she would be also.

In the case of the shop owner there is a mutual exchange of value, so it makes sense for the customer to comply. When the customer is dealing with a police officer, complying with his request for ID yields nothing of value, unless you consider the value of not being rudely jerked around and pucked with.

There can be much value in respecting authority, imo. That is part of the problem across the board in this country. My point with the cc and showing ID to the shop owner is that some people do not responded appropriately when confronted with someone trying to safeguard their welll being.

Of course, as has been stated over and over on this thread and even by Mr. Obama...we weren't there and do not have all the facts. I still hope for the day, for all American citizens, that race (any race) is not used as a crutch for being outraged. Since there is racism within most races, the problem is much deeper than most know.

Let me add that everyone should read and reread Mango's post.

There was a reported burglary while he was away on vacation. This is not the first time the've been to his house. If the police are called back again to his residence for a reported crime, I wonder how fast they will respond to the call?:confused:

Nobody ever ever ever meets in the middle in the political forums so I don't really put stock into anything I read here. The folk on the left site only left slanted rags and the right only right slanted rags. The left discounts the right's sites and vice versa. All I'll say is there are pages and pages and pages of articles from all kinds of news agencies, both left and right, that say he does exactly that. I just started at the beginning and started copying.

All I have to the contrary is you saying that he doesn't with nothing to back it up so I guess all the sites that say he does must be wrong. Sorry...I will carry on. I will assimilate...

I don't agree that no one meets in the middle. You guys know I post more often on the left side of issues - not 100% - but certainly more in Obama camp.

But I am trying to see this from the officer's side and the professor's side.

I read this this morning:

Gates was returning from an overseas trip and could not get his locked front door open. When Crowley arrived and questioned whether Gates lived in the home, the 58-year-old academic became upset, eventually demanding the officer's name and badge number so he could file a complaint. Crowley said Gates referred to Crowley's mother as a way of showing his displeasure.

When the officer repeatedly asked Gates to speak with him outside, the professor responded, "Ya, I'll speak with your mama outside," Crowley wrote in a police report.

"I'm still just amazed that somebody of his level of intelligence could stoop to such a level, and berate me, accuse me of being a racist or racial profiling," Crowley said Thursday. "And then speaking about my mother, it's just -- it's beyond words."

Crowley, 42, said that when he first saw Gates, in "my mind, I'm thinking, 'He does not look like someone who would break into the house.' " At the same time, however, "from the time that he opened the door, it seemed that he was very upset, very unhappy that I was there."

********
I am wondering if those who are assuming the officer acted the way he did because Gates was black might be racially profiling the officer? HOW do we know he would have acted any differently if Gates had been white? We don't. And wouldn't it get under you skin a bit if you went into a man's home to DEFEND it against possible theft and you get "your mama" in your face?

And how would the professor have acted had the officer been black? Would he have been less confrontational?

This works from BOTH angles.

This was an unfortunate incident for all. I understand where both men were coming from - we can't totally get into their mindset though and I think it wise to not bring politics into this situation.

That's my 2 cents - again.

G

Gidget sounds very grounded. Let's all group hug. :wub:

Gidget sounds very grounded. Let's all group hug. :wub:

And watch a movie and pop some popcorn.

There can be much value in respecting authority, imo. That is part of the problem across the board in this country. My point with the cc and showing ID to the shop owner is that some people do not responded appropriately when confronted with someone trying to safeguard their welll being.

Of course, as has been stated over and over on this thread and even by Mr. Obama...we weren't there and do not have all the facts. I still hope for the day, for all American citizens, that race (any race) is not used as a crutch for being outraged. Since there is racism within most races, the problem is much deeper than most know.

Let me add that everyone should read and reread Mango's post.

There is a limit to the price I will pay to have my well-being safeguarded. To me that's quite rational.

I smell a defamation lawsuit by the peace officer. By the way don't let this little issue detract from all the other Obama messes.;-)

I smell a defamation lawsuit by the peace officer. By the way don't let this little issue detract from all the other Obama messes.;-)

Yup...there is talk of that this morning. Facts are lining up behind the officer more than the professor. One of the real time radio calls had him saying that he was with a man who appeared to be the resident, but he was being uncooperative. Sounds to me that this whole thing would be a non-issue if the officer had not been met with a dose of bad attitude.

Like I said before...The Professor was asked for ID which he did not produce, and then, it got weird.

So, when are the marches taking place? :idontno:

i love the smell of racism in the morning....it smells like victory

And watch a movie and pop some popcorn.

Can we watch Grumpy Old Men? Or Secondhand Lions? 😀

I'm all about the group hug, y'all are great... we've got this whole thread of people expressing a wide variety of opinions on the matter, debating what is right, all for the most part without insults and ugliness... WTG SoWal!

Can we watch Grumpy Old Men? Or Secondhand Lions? 😀

I'm all about the group hug, y'all are great... we've got this whole thread of people expressing a wide variety of opinions on the matter, debating what is right, all for the most part without insults and ugliness... WTG SoWal!

:clap: and then a Star Wars or Raiders marathon:clap: