Neighborhood Electric Vehicles

The Nissan Leaf is $42,000? Quite expensive when you factor in having to replace the batteries every 5-7 years.

Your price quote is way off as has been pointed out. At the moment I have to question your statement about battery replacement. In addition, without knowing how much batteries cost to replace, I can't get much meaning out of that. Finally, there are other maintenence costs that won't be a part of ev ownership. things like oil changes, air filter changes, spark plugs, wires, injectors, fuel filters. You'll never have to replace your radiator or water pump. The list goes on. No belts, no pulleys, no timing chain, no starter, no alternator, no transmission.

Your price quote is way off as has been pointed out. At the moment I have to question your statement about battery replacement. In addition, without knowing how much batteries cost to replace, I can't get much meaning out of that. Finally, there are other maintenence costs that won't be a part of ev ownership. things like oil changes, air filter changes, spark plugs, wires, injectors, fuel filters. You'll never have to replace your radiator or water pump. The list goes on. No belts, no pulleys, no timing chain, no starter, no alternator, no transmission.

No doubt, you and Scooter are going to use facts and figures. Good move.

Your price quote is way off as has been pointed out. At the moment I have to question your statement about battery replacement. In addition, without knowing how much batteries cost to replace, I can't get much meaning out of that. Finally, there are other maintenence costs that won't be a part of ev ownership. things like oil changes, air filter changes, spark plugs, wires, injectors, fuel filters. You'll never have to replace your radiator or water pump. The list goes on. No belts, no pulleys, no timing chain, no starter, no alternator, no transmission.

This is something I've wondered about. The truth is we won't know what the real maintenance costs of these types of cars are until they exist in the market for a number of years.

As far as the battery goes it will have to be replaced, just like your cell or cordless phone battery needs to be replaced occasionally. Both the Leaf and the the Volt include an eight year, 100,000 mile battery warranty. After that it's an out of pocket cost for you. A replacement today will run about $12,000 to $15,000. The other interesting thing about these cars is that over time, as the battery goes bad, you'll lose range. So brand new off the lot you'll expect 100 mile range, but toward the end of the battery's life that number will decrease.

All of which makes concerns about the life expectancy of the battery and other maintenance costs a worthy concern for any new buyer.

Nissan LEAF Battery Warranty for Electric Car | Clean Fleet Report

These vehicles have evolve beyond the golf course. Folks use them as grocery getters more than golf carts these days. There is a whole class of these (LSVs vs golf carts) designed for short distance travel.

Low-speed vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IMHO, forcing people to purchase a fourty thousand dollar car if they want to be green is not the right answer.

Totally agree. Careful arguing against the popular/prolific sowal posters on this topic, unless you want to be bashed unreasonably. 30A thinks its green, cool, etc... and yet its like the only damn area in Florida, that really crimps the usability of Neighborhood Electric Vehicles, because according to most "locals" it is absolutely vital that 30A maintain the couple tiny strips (like the one in front of Deer Lake) at 45, rather than making the whole damn thing uniform at 35, thus greatly expanding the usability, desirability of neighborhood electric vehicles.

This is some information from an article I came across in my research of Low Speed Vehicles.
I found it pertinent to our conversation here.

March 2008, "World Wide Situation of Low Speed Vehicles"
Prepared for the Ministry of Transportation of Quebec
by The Quebec Advanced Transportation Institute

"The objective of this document is to provide the most recent information on the evolution of LSV in the regions studied and to identify the trends toward the integration of these vehicles in the ordinary traffic flow. The United States, certain European Union countries, Japan and Australia were targeted because of their experiences with this type of vehicle. Technical standards, traffic rules, the market, road accident data will be studied in detail and the opinions of specialists will be reported."

"During our research and interviews with the government authorities in the concerned countries, no exceptional accidents or worrisome statistics regarding the LSV were brought to our attention. In most cases, it does not raise major concerns in the countries and states that authorized its use on public roads."

"The only road accident statistics available are French and are provided by the Observatoire national interminist?riel de la S?curit? Routi?re (OSNIR). They show that the rate of LSV involved in traffic accidents is low. The number of victims is also low. The vast majority of accidents have been recorded on the 90 km/h networks, mainly on roads that connect rural areas, where 82% of deaths were recorded in 2005 as opposed to 17% in urban areas. LSV have four times less victims than mopeds."

"Many experiments in a real use environment demonstrated the interest and reliability of LSV. The conclusions of these experiments on various continents and in various use environments were positive (improvement of air quality, speed reduction) and all state that the LSV provides a mobility alternative that is ecological and complements the global offer."

According to the last table and figures, we note that:
? LSVs have a low ratio of people killed: an average of 25 dead per year over the last six years for a total of 140,000 vehicles in operation, that is, an average ratio of 0.017. The ratio increases to 0.037 people killed per million kilometers travelled if we take into consideration their annual average mileage.
? LSVs cause four times less victims than the mopeds (who travel at the same speed on the same type of roads).

There were no road accident data for LSVs in the United States processed, however, during our research and meetings with the US authorities (NHTSA, IIHS), no major accident was mentioned.

Ideally, the LSV could become the urban vehicle par excellence and inspire municipal environments to modify their streets in order to prevent speeds higher than the speed limit in cities, so that all users may travel safely and better share public roads while reducing accidents caused by excessive speeds.

It really is an interesting article for those of you who are passionate about this subject (as you seem to be, on the this and other forum pages). If you would like to read it all here is the link: http://www.itaq.qc.ca/pdf/LSV_ITAQ.pdf


Also, Lake View Too,
In this article there are SEVERAL communities and cities where LSVs have become THE mode of transportation. Several cities in California & Florida are mentioned. I have also found links where new charging stations are being implemented along rural highways across the nation, suggesting increased LSV traffic in those areas. NC was the most recent.

Enjoy! 🙂

They just won't open their eyes to this. 30A to these SoWal opponents is some sort of industrialized High Speed area. Damn the mounting stats and facts that LSV's are multiple times safer ... and Damn the fact that every environmental concern out there, including the Sierra Club, is actively promoting NEV/LSVs..

What's more dangerous, the distracted Atlanta housewife on vacation, who has had 3 martinis and a valium, driving her gazillion tonne Tahoe/Yukon/ Armada/to her Seagrove or Watercolor or Seacrest house, after a juant to Seaside, or Red Bar, or the same lady driving a 750 pound NEV at 25mph top speed, after three martinis and a valium.
??

I wasn't suggesting we lower the speed limit on 30A, I was suggesting we add additional support along the roadway for other types of vehicles. There's plenty of room, and it's just a little bit of grading and asphalt.

Have you ever driven on 30a? I know it's a long way from San Destin, but a little more research may prevent you from making embarrassing posts like this one, and the complimentary one about putting LSV's on the BIKE path.

The issue isn't are LSV's safe or dangerous, are they green or not, etc. etc.

The issue is that people want to change the law so they can drive LSV's where they weren't intended to be driven- because they want to. That's about it. If they are safe and green and fun- super. Enjoy. But...

There is absolutely no need to change the speed limit to accomodate a few golf cart enthusiasts. Same goes for horse and buggies and antique vehicles.

PCH in California- A long coastal scenic highway. In populated areas where communities exist the speed limit is low and people drive golf carts. In rural areas in between the speed limit is high. No golf carts. And no need to lower the speed limit in those areas to accomodate golf carts- because they were NOT designed to be driven in those areas.

Same with 30A- A long coastal scenic highway. In populated areas where communities exist the speed limit is low and people drive golf carts. In rural areas in between the speed limit is high. No golf carts. And no need to lower the speed limit in those areas to accomodate golf carts- because they were NOT designed to be driven in those areas.

What is so hard to understand?

What's more dangerous, the distracted Atlanta housewife on vacation, who has had 3 martinis and a valium, driving her gazillion tonne Tahoe/Yukon/ Armada/to her Seagrove or Watercolor or Seacrest house, after a juant to Seaside, or Red Bar, or the same lady driving a 750 pound NEV at 25mph top speed, after three martinis and a valium.
??

I would stick with this argument for your presentation to the powers that be who will decide whether or not to lower the posted speed limit on 30A. This is your best work by far.

:lol:

What's more dangerous, the distracted Atlanta housewife on vacation, who has had 3 martinis and a valium, driving her gazillion tonne Tahoe/Yukon/ Armada/to her Seagrove or Watercolor or Seacrest house, after a juant to Seaside, or Red Bar, or the same lady driving a 750 pound NEV at 25mph top speed, after three martinis and a valium.
??

Ask the mother who's 3 year old she takes out. Where are you pulling this stuff from? Oh wait...

I was asking a question. Glad to see good will is in full force here. So much hate from the left.

An article I read earlier today listed the price at $45,400 or $37,600 after the gov't subsidy. Turns out that is the cost in England not the US.

I don't think it's hateful to critically evaluate your poorly researched argument.

What's more dangerous, the distracted Atlanta housewife on vacation, who has had 3 martinis and a valium, driving her gazillion tonne Tahoe/Yukon/ Armada/to her Seagrove or Watercolor or Seacrest house, after a juant to Seaside, or Red Bar, or the same lady driving a 750 pound NEV at 25mph top speed, after three martinis and a valium.
??

Ask the cop who stops you for driving drunk on your golf cart. I'm sure you'll talk your way out of an arrest with that line.

The issue isn't are LSV's safe or dangerous, are they green or not, etc. etc.

The issue is that people want to change the law so they can drive LSV's where they weren't intended to be driven- because they want to. That's about it. If they are safe and green and fun- super. Enjoy. But...

There is absolutely no need to change the speed limit to accomodate a few golf cart enthusiasts. Same goes for horse and buggies and antique vehicles.

There would be a lot more than a few if it was legal. Everybody would be using them. I've seen this happen here in SD and along my stretch of 98. As gas prices rose, and after they put the Publix in, the use of LSVs exploded.

Same with 30A- A long coastal scenic highway. In populated areas where communities exist the speed limit is low and people drive golf carts. In rural areas in between the speed limit is high. No golf carts. And no need to lower the speed limit in those areas to accomodate golf carts- because they were NOT designed to be driven in those areas.

What is so hard to understand?

30A will ultimately be completely developed, and the speed limit will drop regardless. I would rather we put some effort into planning now rather than down the road while the hassles of changing the road way / paths / whatever are fewer.

There would be a lot more than a few if it was legal. Everybody would be using them. I've seen this happen here in SD and along my stretch of 98. As gas prices rose, and after they put the Publix in, the use of LSVs exploded.

30A will ultimately be completely developed, and the speed limit will drop regardless. I would rather we put some effort into planning now rather than down the road while the hassles of changing the road way / paths / whatever are fewer.

You saying that you've seen it happen in SanDestin doesn't really help your argument, it just brings us back to one that those of us against LSV's made a few pages ago: SD is ONE resort community. 30A consists of MULTIPLE resort communities located along a strip of... say it with me kids... BUSY RURAL HIGHWAY.

Also, I sincerely hope that ALL of 30A will not end up being completely developed... Particularly because most of the stretches of highway to which you are referring are largely made up of coastal dune lake frontage. To say that it's all going to be developed in such a cavalier manner makes me awfully sad, and frustrated at your attitude.

I know that we're not gonna make you see reason, and you're not going to make us take leave of our senses and jump on the golf cart bandwagon, but for goodness sake, at least present some new arguments that actually work in your favor...

Skyrocketing gas prices and high inflation will force people into small and slower modes of transportation. I doubt we'll return to cheap energy costs anytime in the next decade.

Skyrocketing gas prices and high inflation will force people into small and slower modes of transportation. I doubt we'll return to cheap energy costs anytime in the next decade.

Absolutely. And skyrocketing gas prices and high inflation tend to make people more conscientious about the way they spend their money.

I expect we'll see lots more small, gas sipping, safety conscious, enclosed cars that can be primary vehicles, driven in rain or shine, regardless of distance needed to travel.

I don't think we'll be seeing more open, fair weather vehicles with no trunk space that are meant for short-term driving in resort locales.

Time will tell. Until then, I'd suggest we hold off on that whole, lower all the speed limits or build special new "cart paths" idea... :wave:

There would be a lot more than a few if it was legal.

There would be a lot more ATV's on 30A if they were legal. There would be a lot more pot smoking if it was legal. There would be a lot more drinking and driving if it was legal. I'm starting to think you're yanking my chain and don't believe your own points.

Everybody would be using them. I've seen this happen here in SD and along my stretch of 98. As gas prices rose, and after they put the Publix in, the use of LSVs exploded.

True about Sandestin but Sandestin is a poor example. You're talking apples and oranges. Sandestin is like a theme park all contained in a little bubble. The planners of that community designed it such that 45MPH would be entirely inappropriate. What's the speed limit there? I think 17MPH. As such- LSV's are legal there and make all the sense in the world.

30A will ultimately be completely developed, and the speed limit will drop regardless. I would rather we put some effort into planning now rather than down the road while the hassles of changing the road way / paths / whatever are fewer.

The reason I believe you are wrong is because the most rural parts of 30A (which have the posted 45MPH speed limit) have state/protected land on one or both sides of the roadway. Correct me if that isn't true. For fun- let's say all that land is privately owned and will be developed. At that time my argument would certainly change and I would see the need to lower the speed limit. And at that time- LSV's would be legal. Until then- :wave:.

Skyrocketing gas prices and high inflation will force people into small and slower modes of transportation. I doubt we'll return to cheap energy costs anytime in the next decade.

Smaller and slower? I think you mean- more fuel efficient.

Everyone making the argument that the masses will turn to LSV's because gas is too expensive either hasn't thought things out or is being disingenuous.


Rather than seeing more LSV's down here as a result of high gas prices you are more likely to see the following:

• Some families will no longer make the road trip to the area and will instead go to vacation spots closer to home
• Families that do visit will go to Publix for groceries and grill out instead of dining out to make up the difference
• Sales of cars like the Honda Accord and Chevy Malibu (34MPG) will increase as folks will migrate to these as their primary vehicles

The amount of money you save in gas driving your LSV on 30A one week out of the year doesn't justify the purchase of the LSV as your second vehicle. Face it- folks who drive LSV's down here do so because it is fun. Folks who want to lower the speed limit so they can drive their LSV's the whole stretch of 30A want to do so because they believe it would be fun. The safety, green, fuel efficiency arguments just sound better.

One thing that keeps getting ignored by the pro - LSV and pro-golf cart crowd is that even if we were to lower the speed limit, they still cannot physically go that speed.

15-20 mph is the realistic maximum speed for most LSVs.