Should we be like Saudis re Religious Freedom?

Here's your alleged "historical" building. Firefighter Timothy Brown is suing the Landmarks Preservation Commission?s decision not to grant landmark status to the building. Brown describes it as a a building that ?recalls not only mid-19th century New York City, but also 16th-century Rome and Florence.?:roll: I guess landing gear from one of the planes destroyed part of the roof too. I don't know about you, but to me that sounds likejust another reason to tear it down.


In Battle Over Mosque, a Defender of Architecture - City Room Blog - NYTimes.com

Since you constantly need fear in your life and religion seems your latest focus don't forget the one based on human sacrifice, blood drinking and flesh eating.

Sounds like a cross between werewolves and vampires. With an agenda that is.

Does anyone know why the application submitted in 1987 wasn't aproved (I could have the year wrong)? Or, why the file was never closed?

Does anyone know why the application submitted in 1987 wasn't aproved (I could have the year wrong)? Or, why the file was never closed?

My tinfoil hat tells me that back in 1987 there was a plot to take down the Burlington coat factory and replace it with a mosque by 2012. The terrorists weren't even going after the WTC. That was a fluke. They were going after the coat factory says my hat. And everyone knows that Muslims absolutely hate architecture reminiscent of 16th century Rome and Florence. It all makes sense.

Lucifer, I think you have something there. Something seems shifty to me on both sides of this. That said, our President got beat up by his own supporters over his follow up comment, (paraphrased) "I won't comment on the wisdom......"

Actually, I like that he said that. It says more than needed. He supported the landowner rights here in the United States, but with that statement seems to understand the rub of this group insisting upon this particular location.

I kind of feel relieved in that I finally like something the man said......his countenance wasn't angry looking either when he said this. If others see this the same way as I, perhaps that's a huge step toward their personal healing.

Here's my non tinfoil quasi-edumacated guess: back in the mid-80s someone or some group tried to get the building reviewed to see if it had merit as a historic building - but due to more pressing issues and more impressive competition nothing happened.

Insert several decades, add damage from parts of a 9-11 plane falling through the roof (that CAN'T have improved it), changing tenants, economic downturn, and finally a client with money to knock down the existing (and my guess rather run down building) and build a new project with both the Mayor's and neighborhood's approval.

The building does have some semi-interesting history and architecture associated with it, but it's mainly the same general history as the rest of the neighborhood and that is not exactly a compelling architectural or economic reason to keep it. The petition submitted makes some very general and broad claims, but lacks the kind of factual historical data and elements typical of approved projects.

Yes, there is a historical neighborhood nearby, the building is of an age and nice enough design that makes me wish they could remodel it, had some interesting tenants, and it was affected by 9-11, but that is true of many buildings.

Now, if there was a benefactor for the building who wanted to buy it, restore it, and enter it on the Historic Register, that would be different - but there hasn't been such a person/group for decades.

I don't think this building has been treated any differently than the vast majority of structures put before the Landmarks Commission and the fact that it is CURRENTLY in use as a Muslim Prayer center speaks volumes about reality vs. media sensationalism and political punditry.

Here's my non tinfoil quasi-edumacated guess: back in the mid-80s someone or some group tried to get the building reviewed to see if it had merit as a historic building - but due to more pressing issues and more impressive competition nothing happened.

Insert several decades, add damage from parts of a 9-11 plane falling through the roof (that CAN'T have improved it), changing tenants, economic downturn, and finally a client with money to knock down the existing (and my guess rather run down building) and build a new project with both the Mayor's and neighborhood's approval.

The building does have some semi-interesting history and architecture associated with it, but it's mainly the same general history as the rest of the neighborhood and that is not exactly a compelling architectural or economic reason to keep it. The petition submitted makes some very general and broad claims, but lacks the kind of factual historical data and elements typical of approved projects.

Yes, there is a historical neighborhood nearby, the building is of an age and nice enough design that makes me wish they could remodel it, had some interesting tenants, and it was affected by 9-11, but that is true of many buildings.

Now, if there was a benefactor for the building who wanted to buy it, restore it, and enter it on the Historic Register, that would be different - but there hasn't been such a person/group for decades.

I don't think this building has been treated any differently than the vast majority of structures put before the Landmarks Commission and the fact that it is CURRENTLY in use as a Muslim Prayer center speaks volumes about reality vs. media sensationalism and political punditry.

Oh no! Facts and common sense rears its ugly head again. How in the world are the "hate and fear police" (also known as the Fox News/Republican Party) gonna spin this into a political wedge issue. Stay tuned.

I just heard Bill Bennet outright lie on CNN and say that Obama endorsed this project, when all Obama said was that Muslims have the right to worship in this country.

Oh no! Facts and common sense rears its ugly head again. How in the world are the "hate and fear police" (also known as the Fox News/Republican Party) gonna spin this into a political wedge issue. Stay tuned.

I just heard Bill Bennet outright lie on CNN and say that Obama endorsed this project, when all Obama said was that Muslims have the right to worship in this country.

This is getting ridiculous. When did people lose the ability to understand plain English? I say just let them go. I guarantee you this politicizing and demagoguery will backfire on the Republicans. I'm actually starting to have respect for Republican Joe Scarboro over on MSNBC on this issue.

This is getting ridiculous. When did people lose the ability to understand plain English? I say just let them go. I guarantee you this politicizing and demagoguery will backfire on the Republicans. I'm actually starting to have respect for Republican Joe Scarboro over on MSNBC on this issue.

Respect for Joe? That's scary... Maybe this will be a splinter issue, and a sane version of the Republican party might emerge...nah. (Is anybody keeping count as to how many Amendments they want to dismantle?)

Respect for Joe? That's scary... Maybe this will be a splinter issue, and a sane version of the Republican party might emerge...nah. (Is anybody keeping count as to how many Amendments they want to dismantle?)

Oh! I almost forgot. This morning he was talking about how basically insane the Republican party has gotten and how they're starting to look down on him the more moderate. Joe actually said "screw 'em".

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0816/scarborough-gop-membership-revoked-mosque-screw-em/

"It's stunning and it is so contrary to our country's principle and the Republican party," McKinnon agreed, then added, "I'm glad to see we're together on this and unfortunately I think we may get our membership revoked at the Pachyderm Club."

"Screw 'em," interrupted Scarborough.

"I agree," said McKinnon.

Mornin' Joe

Oh! I almost forgot. This morning he was talking about how basically insane the Republican party has gotten and how they're starting to look down on him the more moderate. Joe actually said "screw 'em".

Scarborough: ‘Screw’ GOP if I’m booted for defending mosque | Raw Story

I'm not a regular viewer of Mornin' Joe, but whenever I have tuned in, Mika sits there like a lump on a log.

I suppose she's supposed to be the liberal counterbalance to Joe, but is she ever? What does she contribute?

Colmbs was a better counterbalance to Hannity!

All this talk about my hats. If I didn't have a bad cold, I'd go make me a new one and put it on my cat and then see what he has to say about it.

This whole mosque controversy is just another Freedom Fries moment for our country. Remember back when about 70% of the country thought the term was really cool? Now they look back in embarrassment. Of course unlike today, the jingoistic administration egged them on. Sadly, the average american has the emotional maturity of a 6th grader. I'm glad at least we have an adult in the White House.

Well put LucySam! All those "patriotic" folks quickly went right back to their Michelin tires for their Jags, along with others involved in that short lived, silly "freedom" fries rally cry.

Sacred ground for 9/11 IS Ground Zero in Manhattan--the Mosque in question is 2 blocks away--Jeeez people!

And once again - the location is currently being used as a Muslim prayer space - they are just expanding to include a community center, restaurant, etc. :roll:

An Opinion Dynamics poll conducted for Fox News Channel -- the most recent national survey conducted that asked about the mosque -- showed that 64 percent of people think it is wrong to build the mosque so close to Ground Zero -- including 56 percent of Democrats and 53 percent of independents.

(Worth noting: That same poll showed that while two-thirds of Americans think it is wrong to build the mosque, a nearly equal 61 percent said the group has the right to build it. And, a look at all of Obama's comments on the matter would seem to suggest that is, in part, where he ultimately came down on the issue; that people have the right to build the mosque while not offering a specific judgment on whether they should or should not.)


The Fix - Why the mosque matters (and why it might not)

Where is GWB when America needs him?

Where is GWB when America needs him?

Two former Bush aides have spoken out bravely in defense of the rights of Muslims, but their old boss remains silent.

As president, GWB warned us against Islamophobia. He spoke out for religious tolerance and freedom on many occasions, especially in the aftermath of Sept. 11.

Wouldn't it be good for America if GWB would make a public statement now about the mosque controversy?

Come on, George--Country First!

Where is George W. Bush when America needs him? - George W. Bush - Salon.com

An Opinion Dynamics poll conducted for Fox News Channel -- the most recent national survey conducted that asked about the mosque -- showed that 64 percent of people think it is wrong to build the mosque so close to Ground Zero -- including 56 percent of Democrats and 53 percent of independents.

(Worth noting: That same poll showed that while two-thirds of Americans think it is wrong to build the mosque, a nearly equal 61 percent said the group has the right to build it. And, a look at all of Obama's comments on the matter would seem to suggest that is, in part, where he ultimately came down on the issue; that people have the right to build the mosque while not offering a specific judgment on whether they should or should not.)


The Fix - Why the mosque matters (and why it might not)

1) It's not a mosque

2) The evil Muslims are already there praying

3) And have been for decades.

$50 says less than 90% of those polled know even one of those 3 items.

This is getting ridiculous. When did people lose the ability to understand plain English? I say just let them go. I guarantee you this politicizing and demagoguery will backfire on the Republicans. I'm actually starting to have respect for Republican Joe Scarboro over on MSNBC on this issue.

I am totally hooked on Morning Joe. I wake up to it every morning. TANGENT- There is a woman regularly part of the show's early roundtable with Pat Buchanan and she has a bird-like laugh. Can't remember her name but she has become my alarm clock.

Joe to me represents the Republican party that I can respect and get behind. I wish the GOP would stop the nonsense with Sarah Palin and creating "outrage" and dividing us using nonissues like the Mosque and stack their candidate pool with Republicans like Joe. I could so vote for him.

Fox & Friends' Rachel Carlson teased segment on Obama "bringing the mosque to Ground Zero"

Gee, it's almost as if Fox & Friends are deliberately distorting the president's position, just to stir up their viewers' emotions! Golly!

Carlson teased segment on Obama "bringing the mosque to Ground Zero" | Media Matters for America

I am totally hooked on Morning Joe. I wake up to it every morning. TANGENT- There is a woman regularly part of the show's early roundtable with Pat Buchanan and she has a bird-like laugh. Can't remember her name but she has become my alarm clock.

Joe to me represents the Republican party that I can respect and get behind. I wish the GOP would stop the nonsense with Sarah Palin and creating "outrage" and dividing us using nonissues like the Mosque and stack their candidate pool with Republicans like Joe. I could so vote for him.

I started to kind of watch the show every morning. That is I"m in and out of sleep. I don't really know the show's format very well just yet. Scarborough is often very reasonable. Something about his personality rubs me the wrong way at times, but he's intelligent and usually entertaining.

I am totally hooked on Morning Joe. I wake up to it every morning. TANGENT- There is a woman regularly part of the show's early roundtable with Pat Buchanan and she has a bird-like laugh. Can't remember her name but she has become my alarm clock.

Geo, if you can, pls tell me what Mika brings to Morning Joe.
I've never heard her contribute a meaningful point of view.
If she's your alarm clock, I guess she's doing some good.
See my post #112.

Geo, if you can, pls tell me what Mika brings to Morning Joe.
I've never heard her contribute a meaningful point of view.
If she's your alarm clock, I guess she's doing some good.
See my post #112.

I never thought of the show as a viewpoint show with liberal vs. conservative, so none of that really matters. It's Joe's show. The rest of the crew are window dressing. But then like I said earlier, at that hour, the show doesn't get my full attention. I find a lot of Joe's views to be fairly moderate.

Buchanan Calls Newt an Opportunist

Pat Buchanan Calls Newt Gingrich 'a Political Opportunist' for his remarks about Ground Zero mosque.


Video: Pat Buchanan Calls Newt Gingrich 'a Political Opportunist'

Geo, if you can, pls tell me what Mika brings to Morning Joe.
I've never heard her contribute a meaningful point of view.
If she's your alarm clock, I guess she's doing some good.
See my post #112.

I did a little digging. The woman with the laugh that wakes me each morning is Norah O'Donnell. I really like it that no shallow person from the network decided that her unique laugh is a liability.

Mika doesn't rub me wrong, ugabuga. I definitely don't see her in the role that I saw Combs. IMHO, Combs wasn't there to provide an alternative view to Hannity's. I believe he was there to make liberals look like total buffoons.

This might seem silly but I view Mika and Joe like an interesting married couple. Together they are kind of the icons of the show. I like when she calls BS on politicos with her tone or an annoyed look. And I like when she reels Joe in when he goes too far with a point.

I like the loose discussion format of the show. They rotate people in and out nicely to keep things fresh. I love the music they use to fade out to each commercial and the images of Joe and Mika add to the cool factor of the show.