Should we be like Saudis re Religious Freedom?

No, I do not think we are superior and I respect others' cultures. I have often said that one country to keep an eye on in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia due to their borders being 100% closed. The US and Saudi arabia are completely different fundamentally and I see not one as superior to another.

Resounding Yes, I prefer our standards all encompassing from Freedom of Religion and Separation of Church and State to their Royal Dictator style. But, that's just me.

Maybe we're just having a semantic disconnect--or maybe we fundamentally disagree.

You say you "respect" the Saudi culture of religious intolerance--although you'd "prefer" religious tolerance.

If by "respect" you mean "admire" or "venerate" or some such, we fundamentally disagree--because my word would be more the opposite, e.g., "scorn," or "disrespect" (if that were really a verb.)

I hope you don't mean you admire/venerate the Saudi's religious intolerance.

"Saudi Arabia" and "religious tolerance" do not belong in the same sentence - unless the other words are "has zero".

Maybe we're just having a semantic disconnect--or maybe we fundamentally disagree.

You say you "respect" the Saudi culture of religious intolerance--although you'd "prefer" religious tolerance.

If by "respect" you mean "admire" or "venerate" or some such, we fundamentally disagree--because my word would be more the opposite, e.g., "scorn," or "disrespect" (if that were really a verb.)

I hope you don't mean you admire/venerate the Saudi's religious intolerance.

Yes, maybe just differing styles of communicating. I prefer my Freedom, ugabuga, and the United States Constitution. That said, yes, I am very respectful of other cultures inclusive of their religion. As a Nation, Saudi Arabia is Muslim. I do not agree with the repression and the fact that their borders are 100% closed. Their borders are not just closed to non Muslims, but closed to the Holy Bible, Old Testament and New Testament....this is repression (intolerance). This is the only one of the 17 Muslim Countries (Middle Eastern) who practice such stringent border control. However, this is their culture. Period. Even Israel has a greater Muslim population than Christian.

As far as your hope that I don't mean I admire/venerate their certain intolerances, if I did mean those words you choose, are you being judgmental of my choice? I won't go any further with this discussion than the fact that I do respect their very deep rooted religious culture.

As much as I have traveled, don't think for a minute that it is very concerning when a country tells me I cannot enter unescorted. My escort must be a male......and, what I can and cannot wear. I still want to go there.....I have an innate desire to travel and learn others' cultures. I studied this country a great deal after 9/11, particularly the fact that this royal government renounced Osama bin Laden's citizenship. They are fundamentally Muslim and from a business perspective try with tremendous effort to maintain global relations. One word: OIL. If they didn't have oil, would their culture have morphed and become more open over the last several decades? I don't know~~~~~~

The Masjid al-Haram "Grand Mosque" in Mecca, Saudia Arabia is Islams most holly site.
The current structure covers an area of 990.40 acres including the outdoor and indoor praying spaces and can accommodate up to four million Muslim worshippers.

If the Saudis will let a Catholic church be built within a half mile of the center then I say break ground in NYC. If not then built it somewhere else.

did you come up with that yourself?

I'll be more than happy to say i think overall our society is morally superior to that of Saudi Arabia.

we aspire to be morally superior....

NO YMCAs NEAR GROUND ZERO!

NO YMCAs NEAR GROUND ZERO!

8/13 cartoon: Mike Luckovich on ground zero | Mike Luckovich

NO YMCAs NEAR GROUND ZERO!

8/13 cartoon: Mike Luckovich on ground zero | Mike Luckovich

HA HA HA HA!!! That looks like the outfield of a lot of women's softball teams I've seen!

This is just racism and hatred, no matter how you try to justify or explain it.

The fact that a Florida church wants to burn copies of the Koran on September 11th is downright disgraceful and unchristian.

People died on 9-11 because of ignorance and hatred. Muslims were among the innocent people who died on the planes, in the buildings, and while trying to save others. Muslims are among the thousands of American troops who have fought, been wounded, or killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Apparently some feel the need to disrespect the memory of the dead and further fragment our country by creating more ignorance, divisiveness, and hatred in a world that has more than enough of all three.

The fact that a Florida church wants to burn copies of the Koran on September 11th is downright disgraceful and unchristian.

..and they will probably be burning Harry Potter..or perhaps some of the 'Twilight' books in October. They tend to be about equal opportunity hate. If they, like the fundie/extreme of any sect/religion/ (insert group name here) need to have something to hate, and fight against, in order to have validation. Not Christian at all..conversely in the Koran I bet its considered to bad form to fly planes into tall buildings.

Funny if folks actually walked the religion they ascribed to we would have world peace. All major religions have the tenant of 'do not kill' ..even if they call God by a different name than you do. ..or looked at you funny..etc etc

Since so many conservatives are suddenly in favor of changing the Constitution let's end this argumant and have an admendment to abolish all religions and finally live in peace.

I find this interesting, on a foxnews.com poll only 11.8% out of 109,974 voters believe we have a duty to protect freedom of religion.

Update, now at 11% out of 132,049 voters.

--------- now at 9% out of 206,654 voters

Poppy, you confuse freedom of religion with an agenda against victims and a country. Explain to me, if you can, why the building immediately next to the one to be torn down and basically exactly the same, has been declared a "historical building" by the zoning board and the one necessary to be demolished for the mosque has not? Though I can't prove it, my thought is that there is a whole bunch of money involved somewhere. There is no change to the Constitution in mind nor any denial of one's freedom of religion.

Poppy, you confuse freedom of religion with an agenda against victims and a country. Explain to me, if you can, why the building immediately next to the one to be torn down and basically exactly the same, has been declared a "historical building" by the zoning board and the one necessary to be demolished for the mosque has not? Though I can't prove it, my thought is that there is a whole bunch of money involved somewhere. There is no change to the Constitution in mind nor any denial of one's freedom of religion.

I see you're keeping your tin foil hat well polished.

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Today from PCB:
President Barack Obama told CNN Saturday that in defending the right of Muslims to build a community center and mosque near ground zero in a speech Friday night, he was "not commenting on the wisdom" of the project but trying to uphold the broader principle that the government should treat "everyone equal, regardless" of religion.
"In this country, we treat everybody equally and in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion,"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/14/obama.islamic.center/?hpt=T1


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Google "Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf" and start reading. Admittedly, there are a few nut job sites that you will run across.

Here's a quote to get you going. This is from his 60 Minutes appearance...
"Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam... I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."

Here is a web site that has some interesting reading on the changes taking place ...bars that have been on the street for years, are now being forced to close, because of the building of the Mosque. Questions of where the 100 million came from and who is really funding it are being asked, Questionable actions and contacts that Omam Feisal Abdul Rauf of Masjid Al-Fara, their leader has had over the years. I didn't do any fact checks on the information on this site but am sure defenders of this project will do that for us.

Bill Warner Private Detective Sarasota 941-926-1926, Shut Down Violent Jihad Websites: Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of Masjid Al-Farah NYC Laughs About Building Mosque Near World Trade Center on Hizbut Tahir (HT) Website: The U.S. Constitution Under Sharia

Palin, Gingrich, Boehner & other prominent Republicans are fond of telling us how much they love the Constitution & how judges should be strict constructionists.

But...in the case of the proposed mosque near Ground Zero, they say the 1st Amendment guarantee of freedom of religion doesn't apply, because the 9/11 hijackers were Muslim & it would be outrageous to let members of that religion have a place of worship near where some Muslims did a terrible thing.

I guess Palin/Gingrich/Boehner et. al. love the Constitution & want it strictly enforced--unless they disagree with it.

IF committing acts of violence by adherents of a particular religion resulted in barring that religion from building places of worship in the area, Christians would be barred from building churches in many parts of the world. (Remember the Crusades?) (Remember the Inquisition?)

Palin, Gingrich, Boehner & other prominent Republicans are fond of telling us how much they love the Constitution & how judges should be strict constructionists.

But...in the case of the proposed mosque near Ground Zero, they say the 1st Amendment guarantee of freedom of religion doesn't apply, because the 9/11 hijackers were Muslim & it would be outrageous to let members of that religion have a place of worship near where some Muslims did a terrible thing.

I guess Palin/Gingrich/Boehner et. al. love the Constitution & want it strictly enforced--unless they disagree with it.

I'm not sure which is worse: That people like P, G, & B (from above) really harbor a bigotry against Muslims (and perhaps any religions and races they don't agree with) or that they will, without concience, use this issue, and incite this bigotry, just to further their political agenda. These guys, and Limbaugh and Beck, have no qualms about using fear and bigotry to make sure that the rich get richer.

These guys, and Limbaugh and Beck, have no qualms about using fear and bigotry to make sure that the rich get richer.

News networks need to make money. Sad to see, that today, fear is what sells the soap.

We see it so much we get numb and even more xenophobic.


You think its bad here? Imagine what they see in places with less political and financial freedom than we do. Some of the questions I have been asked, while overseas, by Muslims, about 'us' boggled my mind. Many were very nice and polite, they honestly just wanted to know. Their media rides the fear wagon just as much as ours does.

This video is very funny and makes some great points. "Why not the upper west side in Woody Allen's building?" :funn:

Municipal Land-Use Hearing Update - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 08/10/2010 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

I see you're keeping your tin foil hat well polished.

And I see, as usual, your keeping your head buried in the white sand.

GOP Senator Suggests Mosque Will Be Election Issue

GOP Senator Suggests Mosque Will Be Election Issue

There's plenty of opportunity for demagoguery on this issue:

Our natural human instincts of fear of "the other" & desire for revenge will be pitted against ecumenism, & the 1st Amendment's guarantee of freedom of religion.

The smart money's on natural human instincts.


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/08/15/us/politics/AP-US-Ground-Zero-Mosque-Obama.html?hp

Poppy, you confuse freedom of religion with an agenda against victims and a country. Explain to me, if you can, why the building immediately next to the one to be torn down and basically exactly the same, has been declared a "historical building" by the zoning board and the one necessary to be demolished for the mosque has not? Though I can't prove it, my thought is that there is a whole bunch of money involved somewhere. There is no change to the Constitution in mind nor any denial of one's freedom of religion.

How about we declare that building to be historical, and then demolish it. Wouldn't that make everyone happy? It's the Burlington coat factory I believe. Maybe they can preserve the bargain basement.

And I see, as usual, your keeping your head buried in the white sand.

Since you constantly need fear in your life and religion seems your latest focus don't forget the one based on human sacrifice, blood drinking and flesh eating.

Since you constantly need fear in your life and religion seems your latest focus don't forget the one based on human sacrifice, blood drinking and flesh eating.

I'll consider the source of this spurious utterance and let it go at that.

GOP Senator Suggests Mosque Will Be Election Issue

There's plenty of opportunity for demagoguery on this issue:

Our natural human instincts of fear of "the other" & desire for revenge will be pitted against ecumenism, & the 1st Amendment's guarantee of freedom of religion.

The smart money's on natural human instincts.


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/08/15/us/politics/AP-US-Ground-Zero-Mosque-Obama.html?hp

This makes sense. Its much easier for our politicians (and the electorate) to deal with emotions and demagoguery than to actually analyze things on a factual basis. Our election process isn't much different than TV 'reality' shows. (Disclaimer: Never having watched any of those 'reality' shows, I am making some assumptions based on the commercials I've seen. They may not really be as ugly as our elections are.)