Mr. President I want to thank you for the health care reform bill that is going to cost us more in premiums with the possibility of bankrupting numerous businesses because they can't aftord the cost to insure every employee or the fine. Thank you Mr. President for all of your new debt that we now owe that my children and grandchildren are going to have to pay. Thank you Mr. President for taking our tax dollers and spending it on a stimulus bill that has lost 3 million jobs and has our umemployment rate above 9.5%. Thank you Mr. President for the way you and the government handled the oil spill weeks into the spill. Thank you Mr. President for the legislative reform bill that no one knows anything about accept that our fees are likely to go up at our banks and thank you Mr. President for not wanting to extend the Bush Tax Cuts that acutually helped businesses and everyday people and no matter what you say everyone will see their taxes go up and their paycheck go down and thank you Mr. President for my husband having to go into work today and lay-off half of his employee staff (has never had to layoff in 78 years of business) because of the decisions you have made. Again, thank you Mr. President for all that you have done. It is so greatly appreciated by me, my children, my future grandchildren, my husband and the 50 employees that don't have a job after today.
Replies
109
SoWal Insider
Three trillion dollar war?
Oops, the Iraq war only cost one trillion dollars. I don't know where the rest of the three trillion dollar deficit Bush managed to run up came from. Tax cuts for the rich? Bail-out for Wall Street? You decide. Here's a graph to help you out. Notice the sharp incline as the Republican-led economic collapse took effect in the later part of 2008.
SoWal Insider
Wastin Away, I understand how you feel as a small business owner. I closed my company just under two years ago. And, I am doing everything I can to turn my situation around, have fun and appreciate the experience because it was quite an experience. Geo is right in that we personally seek solutions for our own bumps in the road despite more bumps being thrown in our paths. The present state of the economy and the President, Congress, etc that we have in office are here for a while and we have to learn to deal with all of that even if you don't believe in the philosophies. It stinks that you have to (as it appears by your post) layoff 50 employees. You aren't the first company to do so and you won't be the last, unfortunately. You're exactly right that small businesses make up the majority of jobs in this country. Everything ebbs and flows and I hope your business can shift gears through this because I do think it is going to deteriorate.
Right after 9.11.01, I was for the Patriot Act, but others here are correct; that Act is a step toward stripping us of our rights. I guess there's a fine line between protecting us and not becoming more socialized.....by definition.
Lake View Too, while we felt the banking collapse in 2007, it had been brewing for about a decade prior to that. These kinds of collapses don't happen overnight. I do believe 9.11.01 helped facilitate this collapse because of our fiscal reaction to the effects that day had on our economy. Record bankruptcies (individual and corporate) were filed by the end of 2001 and through 2002, the Discount was taken down to 1% and creditors were throwing money at us, even if we couldn't afford it......and, people took the bait. This, after barely recovering from the 1999-2000 recession, which brought about more regulation in the financial industry. Y'all can bat around the blame for which Administration if you want, but not one sole President is 100% responsible. I do find it interesting to look back at our biggest economic downturns and they were mostly banking/financial/securities related.
We invaded Iraq in 2003, all hopeful that it would be swift. The war was essentially over with the capture of Hussein and unfortunately we remained there to be a stabilizing force for them. I wish for us to be out of there, also and I hope Obama is successful in beginning the exit next month.
Comparing deficits is tired. It is tired in the news. It is tired on a message board. Of course, just my humble opinion.
Right after 9.11.01, I was for the Patriot Act, but others here are correct; that Act is a step toward stripping us of our rights. I guess there's a fine line between protecting us and not becoming more socialized.....by definition.
Lake View Too, while we felt the banking collapse in 2007, it had been brewing for about a decade prior to that. These kinds of collapses don't happen overnight. I do believe 9.11.01 helped facilitate this collapse because of our fiscal reaction to the effects that day had on our economy. Record bankruptcies (individual and corporate) were filed by the end of 2001 and through 2002, the Discount was taken down to 1% and creditors were throwing money at us, even if we couldn't afford it......and, people took the bait. This, after barely recovering from the 1999-2000 recession, which brought about more regulation in the financial industry. Y'all can bat around the blame for which Administration if you want, but not one sole President is 100% responsible. I do find it interesting to look back at our biggest economic downturns and they were mostly banking/financial/securities related.
We invaded Iraq in 2003, all hopeful that it would be swift. The war was essentially over with the capture of Hussein and unfortunately we remained there to be a stabilizing force for them. I wish for us to be out of there, also and I hope Obama is successful in beginning the exit next month.
Comparing deficits is tired. It is tired in the news. It is tired on a message board. Of course, just my humble opinion.
Beach Fanatic
For those of you who are writing thank you notes to our current President because your business isn't doing well right now-
just curious- did you write thank you notes to Bill Clinton when the economy was booming and your business was doing well? Or were you obsessed with cigars and blue dresses?
Let me leave you with a thought-
Reagans, Bushes, Clintons and Obamas: we give them all too much blame/credit for what happens to us during their tenure. Each of us has more control over our outcomes. There are many businesses that aren't doing poorly right now. There are many people who aren't struggling at all. Is Obama responsible for that too? If you think one little man can immediately cause the economy and job market to soar, you are being very simple minded. If you believe that one little man can immediately cause the economy and job market to tank, you are being very simple minded.
Rambling.
just curious- did you write thank you notes to Bill Clinton when the economy was booming and your business was doing well? Or were you obsessed with cigars and blue dresses?
Let me leave you with a thought-
Reagans, Bushes, Clintons and Obamas: we give them all too much blame/credit for what happens to us during their tenure. Each of us has more control over our outcomes. There are many businesses that aren't doing poorly right now. There are many people who aren't struggling at all. Is Obama responsible for that too? If you think one little man can immediately cause the economy and job market to soar, you are being very simple minded. If you believe that one little man can immediately cause the economy and job market to tank, you are being very simple minded.
Rambling.
Beach LoverAuthor
For those of you who are writing thank you notes to our current President because your business isn't doing well right now-
just curious- did you write thank you notes to Bill Clinton when the economy was booming and your business was doing well? Or were you obsessed with cigars and blue dresses?
Let me leave you with a thought-
Reagans, Bushes, Clintons and Obamas: we give them all too much blame/credit for what happens to us during their tenure. Each of us has more control over our outcomes. There are many businesses that aren't doing poorly right now. There are many people who aren't struggling at all. Is Obama responsible for that too? If you think one little man can immediately cause the economy and job market to soar, you are being very simple minded. If you believe that one little man can immediately cause the economy and job market to tank, you are being very simple minded.
Rambling.
I never said my husband's business was doing bad or that we were. We live comfortably and always will because my husband is a simple minded businesses person and we are simple minded family and live a simple life. I was just thanking Mr. President because of the decisons that HE and HIS Congress have made that has led to my huband having to let some of his employees go which he hated to do but had no choice if he wanted to keep the others with jobs. Something that this President and most of this Congress (both Dem and Rep) has never had to do. Maybe we should make that a requirement in order to hold one of these positions. Our country would probably be far better off. You know we will be fine, it's the other 3 million and 50 that are paying the price. Like I said in my first post a very sad day in our home.
Beach Fanatic
Grammy says,Of all the threads I've ever read in the political forum, this one is "the ultimate spin of spins" ever written, as far as I'm concerned.
"I did write him and thank him for keeping me, my family and all Americans safe from another terrorist attack in our country after 9-11."
But, Grammy, 9/11 was on his watch & happened after he either (1) failed to read or (2) read but ignored a memo entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike within U.S."
Grammy says,
"I thanked him for the Patriot Act because I believe that kept us safe."
But Grammy, Benjamin Franklin said "those who would sacrifice essential liberties for security, deserve neither liberty nor security." The former USSR was very "secure" because their "Patriot Acts" took away even more civil liberties than our Patriot Act did.
Grammy says,
"And as far as that deficit thing goes, Obama is going for the Deficit Record in the Guinness World Book of Records."
But, Grammy, Obama didn't start w/ $0 deficit. GWB turned a $236B surplus into a $1.3Trillion deficit; admittedly Obama built on top of that, but he had two of his predecessor's wars, a recession, and a financial meltdown to deal with. Please, give "credit" where it's due.
Beach Fanatic
For those of you who are writing thank you notes to our current President because your business isn't doing well right now-Just call me simple minded. Watch the stock market on the the days a Fed Chairman makes a strong statement, let alone the effect on many issues when the president speaks.
just curious- did you write thank you notes to Bill Clinton when the economy was booming and your business was doing well? Or were you obsessed with cigars and blue dresses?
Let me leave you with a thought-
Reagans, Bushes, Clintons and Obamas: we give them all too much blame/credit for what happens to us during their tenure. Each of us has more control over our outcomes. There are many businesses that aren't doing poorly right now. There are many people who aren't struggling at all. Is Obama responsible for that too? If you think one little man can immediately cause the economy and job market to soar, you are being very simple minded. If you believe that one little man can immediately cause the economy and job market to tank, you are being very simple minded.
Rambling.
Beach Fanatic
Watch the stock market on the the days a Fed Chairman makes a strong statement, let alone the effect on many issues when the president speaks.
The day to day volatility of Mr. Market is just background noise.
Ben Graham noted "In the short run the stock market behaves like a voting machine, but in the long term it acts like a weighing machine.?
Regardless of holding periods stocks are volatile.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
The day to day volatility of Mr. Market is just background noise.The question was not whether stocks ar volatile or not. Anybody who has dealt with them at all knows that. The question was can one man's statement have an effect on the economy. It is my contention that it can.
Ben Graham noted "In the short run the stock market behaves like a voting machine, but in the long term it acts like a weighing machine.?
Regardless of holding periods stocks are volatile.
Beach Fanatic
There are a host of things that affect the economy.
You wrote "watch the stock market on the days..." , my contention a single day's movement is no big deal.
I would hope both of us agree with that.
You wrote "watch the stock market on the days..." , my contention a single day's movement is no big deal.
I would hope both of us agree with that.
Beach Fanatic
Just call me simple minded. Watch the stock market on the the days a Fed Chairman makes a strong statement, let alone the effect on many issues when the president speaks.
Andy,
When I said-
"If you think one little man can immediately cause the economy and job market to soar, you are being very simple minded. If you believe that one little man can immediately cause the economy and job market to tank, you are being very simple minded."
I (following the lead of the thread subject) was referring to the President and (see bold) the economy and job market. I was in no way referring to the Fed Chairman, a half point in the interest rate or the nonsensical completely volatile roller coaster we call the stock market.
Beach Fanatic
Beach Fanatic
I never said my husband's business was doing bad or that we were. We live comfortably and always will because my husband is a simple minded businesses person and we are simple minded family and live a simple life. I was just thanking Mr. President because of the decisions that HE and HIS Congress have made that has led to my huband having to let some of his employees go which he hated to do but had no choice if he wanted to keep the others with jobs. Something that this President and most of this Congress (both Dem and Rep) has never had to do. Maybe we should make that a requirement in order to hold one of these positions. Our country would probably be far better off. You know we will be fine, it's the other 3 million and 50 that are paying the price. Like I said in my first post a very sad day in our home.
You dodged every question/point I made in your direct response to me. All you've clarified is that you're not hurting but rather that the people you've decided to lay off are.
I love when successful business owners do that thing where when a democrat comes into office and there is the possibility that their sweetheart tax breaks and loopholes are going away- they say things like-
"Well I'll be left with no choice but to let people go."
Um, actually- you're left with many choices besides laying people off. You could cut other costs, focus on driving revenue for higher margin products, increase add on sales/drive repeat business, sell assets at their peak value, etc. etc. etc. AND
my favorite one-
You could choose to pay yourself less.
I am a passionate entrepreneur myself. And I have no issue with someone deciding that they aren't going to pay themselves less if sales are down or if taxes are up or if there are health care premiums to provide.
You said you're comfortable. Super. But it is your decision to lay your people off so that you can remain comfortable. And there is nothing wrong with that.
It is just business.
SoWal Insider
I sometimes get my trillions mixed-up...
SoWal Insider
Just as this thread has morphed into whether one man or one administration can influence the economy, I want you people to reflect on what influence one party can have on the economy. If you study the above graph you will see that one party (that starts with an R) was responsible for a 60% increase in the size of the national debt compared to the GNP. Do you really want this party to regain control of our government?
And before you bring up the issue that it is all the fault of congress, let me remind you that the president signs these spending bill into law. Mr. Bush did not veto one bill in his eight years in office.
And before you bring up the issue that it is all the fault of congress, let me remind you that the president signs these spending bill into law. Mr. Bush did not veto one bill in his eight years in office.
Beach LoverAuthor
You dodged every question/point I made in your direct response to me. All you've clarified is that you're not hurting but rather that the people you've decided to lay off are.
I love when successful business owners do that thing where when a democrat comes into office and there is the possibility that their sweetheart tax breaks and loopholes are going away- they say things like-
"Well I'll be left with no choice but to let people go."
Um, actually- you're left with many choices besides laying people off. You could cut other costs, focus on driving revenue for higher margin products, increase add on sales/drive repeat business, sell assets at their peak value, etc. etc. etc. AND
I am not going to debate with you about the reasons why my husband had to make his decisions. He did on the advisement of his account and attorney and so be it. He could have just closed the doors and everyone would have lost their jobs. We don't make our income from this businsess so if it closed it would not effect us. He does it because he loves what the business is about and loves the community that depends on his business. Go enjoy what you do.
my favorite one-
You could choose to pay yourself less.
I am a passionate entrepreneur myself. And I have no issue with someone deciding that they aren't going to pay themselves less if sales are down or if taxes are up or if there are health care premiums to provide.
You said you're comfortable. Super. But it is your decision to lay your people off so that you can remain comfortable. And there is nothing wrong with that.
It is just business.
I am not going to debate with you anymore. We don't depend on this business to meet our financial needs so he could just shut the doors and everyone would be without a job. He loves what he does, he loves his employees and he loves the community that has supported his business for 78 years. He did was what necessary to make sure the doors could stay open another 78 years. Hopefully you enjoy what you do and would do what it took to keep your doors open. Maybe someday he will be able to re-hire, we just hope it is sooner than later. Have a wonderful day. I am.
SoWal Insider
Are you a small business owner UGABUGA? Have you ever had to make sure you had enough money in the bank to make sure 115 employees could cash their payroll checks, have you ever had to make sure your bank account had enough money each week to meet your companies business expenses, have you ever had to make sure you had enough money to make sure you could pay for the employees heath care costs and all of other taxes associated with being a small business owner. If you are then God bless you because you are helping support 70% of the jobs in this country. These problems were not an issue 8 years ago. They are NOW!!!!, so until you are in our shoes dont tell me about thanking the last President. The issues have resulted from decisions this President and this Congress have made in the past 18 months.perhaps change will be good for your plantation view of the world
Beach LoverAuthor
perhaps change will be good for your plantation view of the world
Have a blessed day!!
Beach Fanatic
Wastin Away, your evolution from being a victim of Obama in post 1 to your attitude of-
the employees are lucky we don't just close the doors and they'll all be out of jobs
in your last response to me
was really really fun to watch.
So same to you (have a wonderful day as well)!
G
the employees are lucky we don't just close the doors and they'll all be out of jobs
in your last response to me
was really really fun to watch.
So same to you (have a wonderful day as well)!
G
Beach Fanatic
I am not going to debate with you anymore. We don't depend on this business to meet our financial needs so he could just shut the doors and everyone would be without a job. He loves what he does, he loves his employees and he loves the community that has supported his business for 78 years. He did was what necessary to make sure the doors could stay open another 78 years. Hopefully you enjoy what you do and would do what it took to keep your doors open. Maybe someday he will be able to re-hire, we just hope it is sooner than later. Have a wonderful day. I am.
Looks as if all the folks harping at you Wastin Away must be unemployed or employees. I don't know for sure about that but any small business owner in this country understands your position. You are a big bad small business owner. The people Obama is doing his best to ruin because you aren't on the government teat and cannot be controlled and counted on for your vote. So you (we) are being taxed and regulated out of business. Where will all the naysayers work then?
Beach LoverAuthor
Wastin Away, your evolution from being a victim of Obama in post 1 to your attitude of-
the employees are lucky we don't just close the doors and they'll all be out of jobs
in your last response to me
was really really fun to watch.
So same to you (have a wonderful day as well)!
G
Have a blessed day Geo and good luck in the future.
Beach Fanatic
I know I'm beating a dead horse here but I'm still enjoying your thread.
So getting back to Post 1-you (sarcastically) thanked Obama for:
- Health care premiums
- New debt
- The stimulus
- The high unemployment rate
-The mishandling of the oil spill
-A reform bill that might raise bank fees
-Allowing an expiration date that Bush specified in Tax Cuts to stand
So which of these things are you citing as reasons to layoff 50 people *today*???
I ask because most of these haven't gone into effect yet and won't for a while. So either you're just being proactive and planning ahead with your unfortunate layoffs or you're giving the President too much credit for them.
So getting back to Post 1-you (sarcastically) thanked Obama for:
- Health care premiums
- New debt
- The stimulus
- The high unemployment rate
-The mishandling of the oil spill
-A reform bill that might raise bank fees
-Allowing an expiration date that Bush specified in Tax Cuts to stand
So which of these things are you citing as reasons to layoff 50 people *today*???
I ask because most of these haven't gone into effect yet and won't for a while. So either you're just being proactive and planning ahead with your unfortunate layoffs or you're giving the President too much credit for them.
Beach Fanatic
It's the 'ripple effect' . Not hard to understand. Throw a rock in the pond labeled stimulus and Obamacare and it starts.
Beach Lover
I must be simple minded...cause I DO THINK, and KNOW that this one little man (your words not mind) has an agenda, he came into office with it, has surrounded himself with the same type little men and right now has control over both houses filled with the same type little men and women and their goal is to change America and make it into their image...and the hell with anyone that thinks differently. After reading your many posts the other day, which were really harsh for you, as usually you are pretty rational Geo, I am going to place you in that same little group of "little men."
Beach Fanatic
Hi Edgy,
You are interpreting connotations from the terms I used "one little man" and "simple minded" that weren't originally intended. And your applying new ones of your own.
My central point is that the economy is very complex and there are factors beyond the legislative actions or ideas of any one sitting president that affect its health. The economy is bigger than one individual so we shouldn't assign
too much blame or
too much credit to any one individual for what the economy looks like. There's a reason we have so many economists with so many different (often opposing) views on how
to steer our economy. Because it is so not simple.
I attempted to objectively dissect our original posters thesis. Irrespective of what she thinks of Mr. Obama's legislation I find it doubtful that his body of work is to blame for her husband's business decision to layoff 50 people. In other words, I called bull ****. Is that harsh? Well I guess rational thought and truth sometimes isn't cordial or pretty.
If you believe I'm wrong then apply your wisdom and show me where. Calling me a little man might be funny and make you feel good but it doesn't disprove my points.
You are interpreting connotations from the terms I used "one little man" and "simple minded" that weren't originally intended. And your applying new ones of your own.
My central point is that the economy is very complex and there are factors beyond the legislative actions or ideas of any one sitting president that affect its health. The economy is bigger than one individual so we shouldn't assign
too much blame or
too much credit to any one individual for what the economy looks like. There's a reason we have so many economists with so many different (often opposing) views on how
to steer our economy. Because it is so not simple.
I attempted to objectively dissect our original posters thesis. Irrespective of what she thinks of Mr. Obama's legislation I find it doubtful that his body of work is to blame for her husband's business decision to layoff 50 people. In other words, I called bull ****. Is that harsh? Well I guess rational thought and truth sometimes isn't cordial or pretty.
If you believe I'm wrong then apply your wisdom and show me where. Calling me a little man might be funny and make you feel good but it doesn't disprove my points.
SoWal Insider
I must be simple minded...cause I DO THINK, and KNOW that this one little man (your words not mind) has an agenda, he came into office with it, has surrounded himself with the same type little men and right now has control over both houses filled with the same type little men and women and their goal is to change America and make it into their image...and the hell with anyone that thinks differently. After reading your many posts the other day, which were really harsh for you, as usually you are pretty rational Geo, I am going to place you in that same little group of "little men."
From my count it takes over 60 senators and about 260 something representatives to pass a spending bill. That's a whole lot of little men (and women) to make the mess we have. And stop calling people little, it makes you look small.
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