Thank You Mr. President

Hi Edgy,

I attempted to objectively dissect our original posters thesis. Irrespective of what she thinks of Mr. Obama's legislation I find it doubtful that his body of work is to blame for her husband's business decision to layoff 50 people. In other words, I called bull ****. Is that harsh? Well I guess rational thought and truth sometimes isn't cordial or pretty.

If you believe I'm wrong then apply your wisdom and show me where. Calling me a little man might be funny and make you feel good but it doesn't disprove my points.

I agree, it didn't happen that quickly. It's most certainly the catalyst, however. People reach a threshold and take action then.

Have a blessed day!!

god bless the hourly slaves

If the original poster's family business was booming would it have been decided that 50 people would be laid off? And would Obama legislation which hasn't gone into effect yet be cited as the reason business was booming?

Yep God forbid if Obama was making things worse. Denial is saying he can't affect us.

Sounds like an excuse for the continued downward spiral.

That's just bs. The key players in this discussion who disagree with the original poster are fine admitting Obama's shortcomings (along with those of any other dem or republican). There are numerous examples of our expressed criticism/dissatisfaction of Obama in this forum. And there are numerous examples of us challenging each other's logic and reasoning.

If I am wrong on anything I've typed show me where and why. But don't hide behind a vague accusation that I am wrong because I wouldn't admit it if Obama really was at fault.

Original poster said herself that the lawyers and accountants advised to do the layoffs. Belaboring the point- I presume this advice was strictly based on the bottom line rather than because of Obama legislation that hasn't kicked in yet.

We blame Bush for things he did and we provide support for the rational. Blame Obama for what you wish but you will be much more credible if you stick around and articulate your reasons.

Hi Edgy,

You are interpreting connotations from the terms I used "one little man" and "simple minded" that weren't originally intended. And your applying new ones of your own.

My central point is that the economy is very complex and there are factors beyond the legislative actions or ideas of any one sitting president that affect its health. The economy is bigger than one individual so we shouldn't assign
too much blame or
too much credit to any one individual for what the economy looks like. There's a reason we have so many economists with so many different (often opposing) views on how
to steer our economy. Because it is so not simple.

I attempted to objectively dissect our original posters thesis. Irrespective of what she thinks of Mr. Obama's legislation I find it doubtful that his body of work is to blame for her husband's business decision to layoff 50 people. In other words, I called bull ****. Is that harsh? Well I guess rational thought and truth sometimes isn't cordial or pretty.

If you believe I'm wrong then apply your wisdom and show me where. Calling me a little man might be funny and make you feel good but it doesn't disprove my points.

If I read your post wrong then I am at fault. BUT, I believe one of the key points of Obama's campaign was that HE was going to fix it, he had a plan, he was going to bring great minds together to solve this "Bush Made" crisis. He used comments made by McCain on the economy against him, Obama had a plan, he was going to turn it around. He gets elected. Dems control both houses. It is a full deck..no red cards in power they are out numbered. His plan that he promised had smooth sailing...and then what happens once in office with his plan, things take a turn for the worse, stimulus $$ padded with Congress extras....don't work, helping folks buy cars doesn't work, helping out banks doesn't work...they still aren't making many loans, ...so instead of staying focused on the Economy...Obama starts foscusing on Health Care... that has nothing to do with jobs and stablizing our finances. Here we are now almost two years later...Economy still sucks, folks still not working, our debts are mounting...and what is the solution, where is that wonderful plan ...as a retiree who put away $$ in funds to live on, I watched my savings take a dive with everyone else, I watched the value of my home drop, I watched my real estate taxes go up. My monthly income went down and down. No dividends were coming in. There are many that are not happy. Personally I don't think Obama had a plan, has a plan, even wants to have a plan to save our economy...he is so busy trying to get his "overhaul changes" done before he loses his Congress yes men. I wasn't calling you a little man...will have to go re read my original message...I was using your words Geo in your post. I did think you were harsh in answering the original poster, will not back down from that...and that is very unusual for you...as you always are very tackful and calm in responding to us non Obama believers.

I must be simple minded...cause I DO THINK, and KNOW that this one little man (your words not mind) has an agenda, he came into office with it, has surrounded himself with the same type little men and right now has control over both houses filled with the same type little men and women and their goal is to change America and make it into their image...and the hell with anyone that thinks differently. After reading your many posts the other day, which were really harsh for you, as usually you are pretty rational Geo, I am going to place you in that same little group of "little men."

Geo was almost right...I didn't call him a little man.. but I did put him in a group of little men, as I was disappointed in the way he was on the defensive and rather harsh which is not the way he usually responds to other posters. It must have been one of those days where he got up on the wrong side of the bed. Geo is not a little man!

Obama's domestic policy priority is the redistribution of wealth. The stimulus has failed and the American people understand the very obvious point that it cannot cover 30 million additional people while improving the care of the insured and save taxpayers money, all at the same time. A person in business has to readjust to all of Obama's dictates to remain in business.

Edgy Grammy's post was very clear in describing the ripple effect on the economy that the Obama regime has pushed down our throats.

That's just bs. The key players in this discussion who disagree with the original poster are fine admitting Obama's shortcomings (along with those of any other dem or republican). There are numerous examples of our expressed criticism/dissatisfaction of Obama in this forum. And there are numerous examples of us challenging each other's logic and reasoning.

If I am wrong on anything I've typed show me where and why. But don't hide behind a vague accusation that I am wrong because I wouldn't admit it if Obama really was at fault.

Original poster said herself that the lawyers and accountants advised to do the layoffs. Belaboring the point- I presume this advice was strictly based on the bottom line rather than because of Obama legislation that hasn't kicked in yet.

We blame Bush for things he did and we provide support for the rational. Blame Obama for what you wish but you will be much more credible if you stick around and articulate your reasons.

Key players? As if some posters opinions carry greater weight than others. This mentality is exactly why the original poster has decided to walk away from this discussion.

Credible? This isn't about me. I'm not looking to join the "key player" club. It's about the direction our Country is headed and how millions of Americans are losing jobs.

No, EG, Geo is not a "little man" by any stretch of the imagination. But on this thread he and others are wrong as they fail utterly in the intrepetation of what WA is trying to convey.
It really has nothing to do with the economy and everything to do with their and our preception of what is going to happen to us as individuals and as a nation in the future if we continue our present path toward the wrecking of capitalism and the acceptance of socialism in our business endevours.
The present trend in our country, whether you wish to accept it or not, is toward a society operated collectively and not individually. I think Wasting Away is trying to tell us that in order to continue the life her and her husband have strived for, they have no choice but to do some things they certainly don't like to do but have no other alternative because of past events, current events and future events of our government. I realize I have not addressed any reasons for the termination of employees directly nor will I. They are plentiful and available for all to see and evaluate. Do your own research and unless your head is buried in the sand, you will see the obvious blocks ahead of us in the economy, foreign relations and our business and governmental relations.
Yes, its generalization, Geo, if, after looking around, which you have already started to do, (witness your thread "I think I'm becoming a disgruntled Obama supporter) then coming to a conclusion that all is right with this administration and the Congress and things will work out in the end, is your perogative. My education, experience and upbring tell me otherwise.

AndrewG, for the love of god-

Key players meaning- the people doing most of the arguing/the folks who are engaging each other in dialogue. Nobody is weighing anything/anyone. There is no club. I get the impression u r intentionally trying to miunderstand my words and assume the worst intentions behind them. Sheesh.

EG, consider me like cheap coffee. Some days I might come on a little
stronger than others. Some days I'm watered down and some days I might even
be sweet. But I have reread my posts on this thread and I have yet to see anyone refute any of my points. I hear people say I'm wrong. I hear people project ill intentions onto me.

Look- in a perfect world I would shut my mouth and let things go. But sometimes I am unable to let it go. This thread is one of them. Post 1 reads on the surface like Obama caused a bunch of people to lose their jobs. But when u look closer it just doesn't seem to be true.

I'll hold this president acountable for the crap things he's done. Same with Bush, Clinton and the others. But I'll also defend all of them and call BS when I see it. At least- when I'm not able to let it go.

Andy, you said-

"I think Wasting Away is trying to tell us that in order to continue the life her and her husband have strived for, they have no choice but to do some things they certainly don't like to do but have no other alternative because of past events, current events and future events of our government. "

That is pretty much what I believe to be our original poster's situation. I'm not calling BS on that. I'm calling BS on the central premise of the thread which was "thank you Mr. President"/this is all Obama's fault.

If original poster said what u did instead of writing me off with a blessing then I would have already moved on.

Geo, you're being quite correct in calling the BS on the original poster and these other posters as well. This incredible blame game when, in fact, almost none of Obama's policies have even gone into effect, is the epitome of the Republican't mindset. They are devoid of good ideas and there fore all they can do is demonized the present administration, which was elected by a majority of the popular vote, and a majority in the electoral college. If they want to bring a qualified bunch of candidates up at the next election, I hope they do. Until then, they should try pulling together, and strenghthening their own party, not destroying the other. John McCain? Mitt Romney? Sarah Palin? Is this all you got?

Geo, you're being quite correct in calling the BS on the original poster and these other posters as well. This incredible blame game when, in fact, almost none of Obama's policies have even gone into effect, is the epitome of the Republican't mindset. They are devoid of good ideas and there fore all they can do is demonized the present administration, which was elected by a majority of the popular vote, and a majority in the electoral college. If they want to bring a qualified bunch of candidates up at the next election, I hope they do. Until then, they should try pulling together, and strenghthening their own party, not destroying the other. John McCain? Mitt Romney? Sarah Palin? Is this all you got?

Wow, aren't you mouthy this Sunday afternoon. So all other posters on Sowal, other than you and Geo are full of BS, and are" BS ers". It is nice to finally know who is at the top of the Political forums...those that are wiser, smarter and whose opinions are more worthy than others. Of course not sure who appointed you, or crown you, or made you king (or) queen, One question, and since you are all knowing, I know you have the answer to pass on to me.
Why if he was elected by so many, both popular vote and electoral vote...has he dropped so in public opinion. It hasn't even been a full 2 years. Could it be that some of your fellow Demmies are deserting the Obama Ship? Could it be that he just can't deliver? Could it be that even his private "YES" club in Washington (Congress) is beginning to see the light and are jumping ship too? You say that we" BS ers" are trying to destroy your party, your leader is doing a good job all by himself, so all we BS ers need to do is sit back and watch. It will make our job in 2012 so much easier, not to mention 2010!

Andy, you said-"

That is pretty much what I believe to be our original poster's situation. I'm not calling BS on that. I'm calling BS on the central premise of the thread which was "thank you Mr. President"/this is all Obama's fault.

If original poster said what u did instead of writing me off with a blessing then I would have already moved on.

Laid out here below are the reasons Wastin Away and all small business owners and average Americans find themselves in. From Investors.Com (IBD) I doubt you will read it as you seem immune to facts and reality.

Too many overreaching laws give the president too much discretion to make too many open-ended rules controlling too many aspects of our lives. There's no end to the harm an out-of-control president can do.

Barack Obama, however, has pulled off the ultimate switcheroo: He's diminishing America from within ? so far, successfully.

He may soon bankrupt us and replace our big merit-based capitalist economy with a small government-directed one of his own design.

He is undermining our constitutional traditions: The rule of law and our Anglo-Saxon concepts of private property hang in the balance. Obama may be the most "consequential" president ever.

The Wall Street Journal's steadfast Dorothy Rabinowitz wrote that Barack Obama is "an alien in the White House."

His bullying and offenses against the economy and job creation are so outrageous that CEOs in the Business Roundtable finally mustered the courage to call him "anti-business." Veteran Democrat Sen. Max Baucus blurted out that Obama is engineering the biggest government-forced "redistribution of income" in history.

Fear and uncertainty stalk the land. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke says America's financial future is "unusually uncertain."

A Wall Street "fear gauge" based on predicted market volatility is flashing long-term panic. New data on the federal budget confirm that record-setting deficits in the $1.4 trillion range are now endemic.

Obama is building an imperium of public debt and crushing taxes, contrary to George Washington's wise farewell admonition: "cherish public credit ... use it as sparingly as possible ... avoiding likewise the accumulation of debt ... bear in mind, that towards the payment of debts there must be Revenue, that to have Revenue there must be taxes; that no taxes can be devised, which are not ... inconvenient and unpleasant ... ."

Opinion polls suggest that in the November mid-term elections, voters will replace the present Democratic majority in Congress with opposition Republicans ? but that will not necessarily stop Obama.

A President Obama intent on achieving his transformative goals despite the disagreement of the American people has powerful weapons within reach. In one hand, he will have a veto pen to stop a new Republican Congress from repealing ObamaCare and the Dodd-Frank takeover of banks.

In the other, he will have a fistful of executive orders, regulations and Obama-made fiats that have the force of law.

Under ObamaCare, he can issue new rules and regulations so insidiously powerful in their effect that higher-priced, lower-quality and rationed health care will quickly become ingrained, leaving a permanent stain.

Under Dodd-Frank, he and his agents will control all credit and financial transactions, rewarding friends and punishing opponents, discriminating on the basis of race, gender and political affiliation. Credit and liquidity may be choked by bureaucracy and politics ? and the economy will suffer.

He and the EPA may try to impose by "regulatory" fiats many parts of the cap-and-trade and other climate legislation that failed in the Congress.
And by executive orders and the in terrorem effect of an industrywide "boot on the neck" policy, he can continue to diminish energy production in the United States.

By the trick of letting current-law tax rates "expire," he can impose a $3.5 trillion 10-year tax increase that damages job-creating capital investment in an economy struggling to recover. And by failing to enforce the law and leaving America's borders open, he can continue to repopulate America with unfortunate illegals whose skill and education levels are low and whose political attitudes are often not congenial to American-style democracy.

A wounded rampaging president can do much damage ? and, like Caesar, the evil he does will live long after he leaves office, whenever that may be.

Wow! I go away for just two days, & come back & find you kids fighting! Hey! Don't make me come in there!

As Rodney King said, ?Can't we all just get along??

I've read the posts I missed, & in spite of all the arguments & venom on both sides, I see very little movement from original positions. A possible exception is Lynnie who seems to take a healthy ?one-the-one-hand-on-the-other-hand? approach, & surprisingly, to some extent, the original poster herself, who seems to be admitting on some level that it wasn't really Obama's policies that had caused the layoffs (perhaps thanks to Geo's cogent/pithy explanations).

Reading back over the posts, I want to retract my original response (post #13) in which I sarcastically asked Wastin Away if she'd written a similar thank-you letter to the previous president for various ?questionable? policies/actions. I think I was too insensitive to her situation. My replacement post is as follows:

Dear Wastin Away,

I am sincerely sorry that your small business had to lay off 50 employees. I'm sure it hurt you, your family, the employees & their families a great deal. I know you are hurt, mad, and sad and want to lash out and blame someone. I hope you'll forgive me if I say that in blaming President Obama your anger is misplaced. All the policies/actions you cite?even if they're ultimately harmful?have not had time yet to adversely affect your business. Nonetheless, I'm sure it's still painful. Please accept my sympathy.

Your fellow SoWaler and your fellow American capitalist,
ugabuga

Wow! I go away for just two days, & come back & find you kids fighting! Hey! Don't make me come in there!

As Rodney King said, ?Can't we all just get along??

I've read the posts I missed, & in spite of all the arguments & venom on both sides, I see very little movement from original positions. A possible exception is Lynnie who seems to take a healthy ?one-the-one-hand-on-the-other-hand? approach, & surprisingly, to some extent, the original poster herself, who seems to be admitting on some level that it wasn't really Obama's policies that had caused the layoffs (perhaps thanks to Geo's cogent/pithy explanations).

Reading back over the posts, I want to retract my original response (post #13) in which I sarcastically asked Wastin Away if she'd written a similar thank-you letter to the previous president for various ?questionable? policies/actions. I think I was too insensitive to her situation. My replacement post is as follows:

Dear Wastin Away,

I am sincerely sorry that your small business had to lay off 50 employees. I'm sure it hurt you, your family, the employees & their families a great deal. I know you are hurt, mad, and sad and want to lash out and blame someone. I hope you'll forgive me if I say that in blaming President Obama your anger is misplaced. All the policies/actions you cite?even if they're ultimately harmful?have not had time yet to adversely affect your business. Nonetheless, I'm sure it's still painful. Please accept my sympathy.

Your fellow SoWaler and your fellow American capitalist,
ugabuga

shouldn't have left us...we don't play well ...must be the hot muggy weather

Wow, aren't you mouthy this Sunday afternoon. So all other posters on Sowal, other than you and Geo are full of BS, and are" BS ers". It is nice to finally know who is at the top of the Political forums...those that are wiser, smarter and whose opinions are more worthy than others. Of course not sure who appointed you, or crown you, or made you king (or) queen, One question, and since you are all knowing, I know you have the answer to pass on to me.
Why if he was elected by so many, both popular vote and electoral vote...has he dropped so in public opinion. It hasn't even been a full 2 years. Could it be that some of your fellow Demmies are deserting the Obama Ship? Could it be that he just can't deliver? Could it be that even his private "YES" club in Washington (Congress) is beginning to see the light and are jumping ship too? You say that we" BS ers" are trying to destroy your party, your leader is doing a good job all by himself, so all we BS ers need to do is sit back and watch. It will make our job in 2012 so much easier, not to mention 2010!

The way you may win a few positions in 2010 and 2012 is by coming up with viable solutions and viable candidates. Something you didn't do in 2008. The rest of this above post is a bunch of crap. Get over yourself.

Edge Grammy, "it's impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument."

The way you may win a few positions in 2010 and 2012 is by coming up with viable solutions and viable candidates. Something you didn't do in 2008. The rest of this above post is a bunch of crap. Get over yourself.

You too!

Like i said before, this November will set the record straight. The people will vote their feelings in the mirror.

Massive job losses, record deficits & spending, wasted stimulus, false recoverys, increased racial polarization, broken promises on transparency, federal abortion funding, getting out of Iraq, closing Gitmo, repealing the Patriot Act (voted to extend it), failure to enforce our borders, leaked memos of White House fast track amnesty and incompetent crisis handling doesn't bode well for any sitting President.

Democrats are paniced to keep their jobs and purposely keeping their distance from the President. Guess who won't be coming to lunch with Obama? | Political Insider

Like i said before, this November will set the record straight. The people will vote their feelings in the mirror.

Massive job losses, record deficits & spending, wasted stimulus, false recoverys, increased racial polarization, broken promises on transparency, federal abortion funding, getting out of Iraq, closing Gitmo, repealing the Patriot Act (voted to extend it), failure to enforce our borders, leaked memos of White House fast track amnesty and incompetent crisis handling doesn't bode well for any sitting President.

Democrats are paniced to keep their jobs and purposely keeping their distance from the President. Guess who won't be coming to lunch with Obama? | Political Insider

Agreed that citizens will have the chance to speak with their votes in November. I just wish there was a better option than Democrats and Republicans. One does a crap job. So we overwhelmingly vote them out and replace them with the other- which also does a crap job. So now we are left with the option of staying with the one who did a crap job or going with the other who did a crap job. Ugh. It's like sitting at a table with two hammers and alternating which one you hit yourself in the head with.

Thank yourself

I wrote a thread a long time ago about how all of this was EVERYONE'S fault - regardless of political party, who was President/government, or what your economic class was, decisions were made AT EVERY LEVEL AND BY THE MAJORITY OF THE US that got us all to this point.

Yes, some individuals and their decisions have more clout, but all of this has come about because of a wide variety of people who participated in or enabled bad decisions and choices - including you.

The way you may win a few positions in 2010 and 2012 is by coming up with viable solutions and viable candidates. Something you didn't do in 2008. The rest of this above post is a bunch of crap. Get over yourself.

That hasn't been true in the past. All one has to do is make empty promises, buy a lot of signs, hire some good campaign strategist, look good (intelligent and caring) behind a podium, and convince voters that the other candidates are crooks, liars, and cheats.

That alone has won most elections. It has nothing to do with viable solutions.