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Cali Constitutional gay marriage ban struck down

30ashopper avatar
SoWal Insider
2,856 views
SAN FRANCISCO ? A federal judge overturned California's gay-marriage ban Wednesday in a landmark case that could eventually force the U.S. Supreme Court to confront the question of whether same-sex couples have a constitutional right to wed.

The A.P. "wed" statement is a little misleading, at issue is whether or not states have the right to restrict marriage licenses based on the sex of the couple. The Judge felt California's Prop 8 was a civil rights violation, and struck the amendment down. The judge had this to say:

"Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite-sex couples are superior to same-sex couples," the judge wrote in his 136-page ruling.

He also said proponents offered little evidence that they were motivated by anything other than animus toward gays ? beginning with their campaign to pass the ban, which included claims of wanting to protect children from learning about same-sex marriage in school.

"Proposition 8 played on the a fear that exposure to homosexuality would turn children into homosexuals and that parents should dread having children who are not heterosexual," Walker wrote.

Sound familiar? The ruling will be appealed to a federal court, (S.F. 9th circuit) after which it'll head to the Supreme Court. If the ruling holds, this will also likely strike down Florida's same sex marriage constitutional amendment. Something I would welcome.

Judge overturns Calif. gay marriage ban - Yahoo! News

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Replies

80
Beach Fanatic
#2
What would be wrong with just getting the word "marriage" out of the government completely. Anyone, regardless of sexual orientation, can have their ceremonies and call it marriage amongst themselves. But all the legal things that come along with marriage can just be called "legal partnerships". This way, everyone has equal rights and the government does not have to recognize same sex marriages.

I think this case makes a large statement even out side the controversy of same-sex marriage.

This case is about whether a group of citizens in a state can make a law and vote on it amongst themselves (proposition 8). I think that we need to stick to our republican values (that's republican with a little "r") and not get into majority rules on every subject.

In a democracy, if 51% of the people vote to enslave the other 49%, then that's what happens. That is kind of how I feel about the California proposition system. I think the system of government we have set up does a good job of rewarding the majority, but also protecting the minority.
30ashopper avatar
SoWal InsiderAuthor
#3
What would be wrong with just getting the word "marriage" out of the government completely. Anyone, regardless of sexual orientation, can have their ceremonies and call it marriage amongst themselves. But all the legal things that come along with marriage can just be called "legal partnerships". This way, everyone has equal rights and the government does not have to recognize same sex marriages.

I think this case makes a large statement even out side the controversy of same-sex marriage.

This case is about whether a group of citizens in a state can make a law and vote on it amongst themselves (proposition 8). I think that we need to stick to our republican values (that's republican with a little "r") and not get into majority rules on every subject.

In a democracy, if 51% of the people vote to enslave the other 49%, then that's what happens. That is kind of how I feel about the California proposition system. I think the system of government we have set up does a good job of rewarding the majority, but also protecting the minority.

The federal government, by offering benefits to civil service union employee dependents, and tax breaks to married couples, dug this hole a long time ago. This is something our elected officials simply don't have backbone to undo.

Edited

Alicia Leonard avatar
SoWal Insider
#4
I very much agree with the idea of civil unions for everyone. Even if you get married in a church, you still have to get a license from the government and then if you get divorced you have to go back through the gov. to do this as well, unless you're Catholic and then you have to deal with both.

I also think that it will open up a whole lot more revenue for wedding planners, caterers and divorce attorneys.
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#5
I would love to see all Proposition hates struck down! :clap:

Just another ism IMO. These people are going to spend their lives together and have sex whether you approve or not - all of this energy could be focused on REAL issues that actually hurt us.
sarawind avatar
Beach Fanatic
#6
This is a prime example of the democrats using gay rights to cover their real aim which is to to tear down the constitution. Dems don't care about gay rights one little bit. It's a vehicle for their destruction of this country. 7,000,000 million voters California voted against gay marriage and one gay judge (not that there's anything wrong with that) slapped their vote down. States rights are being undermined by the Feds and we are losing freedoms and liberties every day thanks to Obama and the democrats.
Will B avatar
Moderator
#7
I would love to see all Proposition hates struck down! :clap:

Just another ism IMO. These people are going to spend their lives together and have sex whether you approve or not - all of this energy could be focused on REAL issues that actually hurt us.

I agree...

I think everybody should ask the question "How does marriage between two men or two women hurt me?"

Does it really hurt anybody? No?

If you can give a valid answer to how you are being harmed, I'd like to know.
Gidget avatar
Beach Fanatic
#8
We should rejoice that in this CrAzY world, two people were able to find each other and want to commit to each other. Will B you are correct - HOW could it possibly hurt what my dh and I have? It can only make it stronger, for when we see two people happy it makes us happy :D
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#9
I agree...

I think everybody should ask the question "How does marriage between two men or two women hurt me?"

Does it really hurt anybody? No?

If you can give a valid answer to how you are being harmed, I'd like to know.

Because marriage is a very real structure like a house or a building. All who are married share that house. A gay marriage weakens the foundation of the house and it starts to crumble injuring spiritually all those who share the structure. Evreybody looses you see, because once you are married, your sharing the institute of marriage with all other married people. A gay marriage corrupts the institute which you belong to, and hurts you in the eyes of God. So when your married, its not just you're marriage, its everybodys'.
Here4Good avatar
Beach Fanatic
#11
Because marriage is a very real structure like a house or a building. All who are married share that house. A gay marriage weakens the foundation of the house and it starts to crumble injuring spiritually all those who share the structure. Evreybody looses you see, because once you are married, your sharing the institute of marriage with all other married people. A gay marriage corrupts the institute which you belong to, and hurts you in the eyes of God. So when your married, its not just you're marriage, its everybodys'.


:eek: Yikes. There are too many people's marriages I don't want anywhere near mine, much less sharing it...
Will B avatar
Moderator
#12
Because marriage is a very real structure like a house or a building. All who are married share that house. A gay marriage weakens the foundation of the house and it starts to crumble injuring spiritually all those who share the structure.

I won't lead this down a religious debate path because religion is very personal to me, but contrary to your claims, my gay friends with stable relationships out number my straight friends. Sounds like a pretty weak structure to me...:sarc:
Alicia Leonard avatar
SoWal Insider
#13
Yeah, a 50 percent divorce rate does nothing to that structure. Marriage is a contract, not a building. And institutions are for those that need help.:sarc:
Rita avatar
margarita brocolia
#14
Because marriage is a very real structure like a house or a building. All who are married share that house. A gay marriage weakens the foundation of the house and it starts to crumble injuring spiritually all those who share the structure. Evreybody looses you see, because once you are married, your sharing the institute of marriage with all other married people. A gay marriage corrupts the institute which you belong to, and hurts you in the eyes of God. So when your married, its not just you're marriage, its everybodys'.
.
:rolling: ..:wave:
.
You really had to work at that didn't you? thanks!


.
miznotebook avatar
Beach Fanatic
#15
.
:rolling: ..:wave:
.
You really had to work at that didn't you? thanks!


.

Yes, it was way too long to write on her hand!
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#16
The most stable and long term marriages I know (20+ years) are: an arranged marriage (Canoehead's parents), 2 hippies who got "married" because they planned to have kids and thought it should be done w/in wedlock (Mama & Papa Scooterbug), 2 hetero couples, and a gay couple.

All the rest involve divorce, infidelity, separation, etc.
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#17
The most stable and long term marriages I know (20+ years) are: an arranged marriage (Canoehead's parents), 2 hippies who got "married" because they planned to have kids and thought it should be done w/in wedlock (Mama & Papa Scooterbug), 2 hetero couples, and a gay couple.

All the rest involve divorce, infidelity, separation, etc.

Well just think how much worse it would be for straight couples if we let gays marry and weaken the foundation even more. They might even be part of the problem right now. Everything under the marriage roof is all connected.

Aren't you concerned that the desirable marriages are failing and the marriages we want to fail are working out??:idontno: Do you think it's just coinicidence that the increase in failed heterosexual marriages has followed right along with increased civil unions and gay marriages. If you don't believe that, just ask people like Micehlele Bachman, and Sharron Angle. Don't shoot the messenger. The only time I do that is when I run out of polar bears!:clap::floor:;-)
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#18
I think having children out of wedlock (like your family) weakens families and the institution of marriage more than gays. ;-)
Beach Fanatic
#19
I agree...

I think everybody should ask the question "How does marriage between two men or two women hurt me?"

Does it really hurt anybody? No?


Massachusetts has legal same sex marriage. And based on your assessment nobody else is harmed by that.

I can accept that.

But, Massachusetts also imprisons people for 20 years if they have consensual sex between two people who are closely related (closer than first-cousin).

Does incest hurt anyone else? I can't see how.

Yet nobody complains about those rights being infringed upon.

Why?

What about polygamy?
Beach Fanatic
#20
As Kinky Friedman says, "I don't see any reason in the world that gays shouldn't be allowed to be just as miserable as the rest of us."
Beach Fanatic
#21
Thrice-Married Newt says judge disrespected Constitution

Via his Twitter feed, Newt informs us that the judge's decision is an outrageous disrespect for the Constitution, prompting one responder to Tweet "Newt, which one of your three marriages was the most sacred to you?"

Scocca : Newt Gingrich on Gay Marriage: Shameless and/or Fearless
30ashopper avatar
SoWal InsiderAuthor
#22
Massachusetts has legal same sex marriage. And based on your assessment nobody else is harmed by that.

I can accept that.

But, Massachusetts also imprisons people for 20 years if they have consensual sex between two people who are closely related (closer than first-cousin).

Does incest hurt anyone else? I can't see how.

Yet nobody complains about those rights being infringed upon.

Why?

What about polygamy?

Good question, why is polygamy illegal??

This all seems to come back to perceptions of what is morally right and wrong, and this then some how gets baked into our laws. If it's consenting, and it doesn't effect anyone but those involved, government shouldn't be allowed to pass judgment.
Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#23
Because marriage is a very real structure like a house or a building. All who are married share that house. A gay marriage weakens the foundation of the house and it starts to crumble injuring spiritually all those who share the structure. Evreybody looses you see, because once you are married, your sharing the institute of marriage with all other married people. A gay marriage corrupts the institute which you belong to, and hurts you in the eyes of God. So when your married, its not just you're marriage, its everybodys'.
the power of christ compels you
sarawind avatar
Beach Fanatic
#24
the power of christ compels you

Christ should be capitalized. Shame on you if it was on purpose. Pardon me if it was a typo.
Alicia Leonard avatar
SoWal Insider
#25
Good question, why is polygamy illegal??

This all seems to come back to perceptions of what is morally right and wrong, and this then some how gets baked into our laws. If it's consenting, and it doesn't effect anyone but those involved, government shouldn't be allowed to pass judgment.


I've often wondered this myself. Why can't a woman have more than one husband. I'd take three, one to cook, one to clean and one to take me out when the other two are not cooking and cleaning and rubbing my feet.:idontno:
AlphaCrab avatar
Beach Fanatic
#26
I've often wondered this myself. Why can't a woman have more than one husband. I'd take three, one to cook, one to clean and one to take me out when the other two are not cooking and cleaning and rubbing my feet.:idontno:

Ask Mittens Romney. Based on his religious beliefs, he prefers the sanctity of run of the mill polygamy, but cannot seem to wrap his little narrow mind around gay matrimony.

Folks... this will become a Chinese menu litmus test for the definition of marriage for 2012.:lolabove:

Edited

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