Born in U.S.A. Is What Makes Someone an American: Eric Foner - Bloomberg Born in U.S.A. Is What Makes Someone an American: Eric Foner
By Eric Foner - Aug 17, 2010 9:00 PM ET
Bloomberg Opinion
For almost 150 years Americans have believed that anyone born here, whatever his or her origins, can be a good citizen. There is no reason to believe the children of illegal immigrants are any different.
Congress should think long and hard before tampering with this essential American principle embodied in the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Approved by Congress in 1866 at the outset of Reconstruction and ratified two years later, the amendment establishes the principle of birthright citizenship. With minor exceptions, all persons born in this country are American citizens, whatever the status of their parents.
Republican Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, several of his Senate colleagues and a number of conservative political commentators are now demanding that the amendment be reinterpreted or rewritten so as to exclude the children of illegal immigrants.
Bitter conflicts about who should be an American citizen are hardly new, nor are efforts to exclude those deemed for one reason or another undesirable. The very first naturalization law, enacted in 1790, barred non-white immigrants from ever becoming citizens. This prohibition was lifted for Africans in 1870 but lasted into the mid-20th century for Asians. In 1857, in the Dred Scott decision, Chief Justice Roger B. Taney declared that no black person, free or slave, could be a citizen of the U.S.
Replies
50
Skunky
The question as to whether or not the kids hold potential as 'good' citizens isn't the point. The point is whether or not it is reasonable to expect the 'good' citizens of this country to finance the prenatal care, delivery, pediatric care, diapers, formula and education of a (innocent) child simply because she had Apgars assigned to her on our soil. Given our country's financial state of affairs, it is a fair question.
Beach Fanatic
The question as to whether or not the kids hold potential as 'good' citizens isn't the point. The point is whether or not it is reasonable to expect the 'good' citizens of this country to finance the prenatal care, delivery, pediatric care, diapers, formula and education of a (innocent) child simply because she had Apgars assigned to her on our soil. Given our country's financial state of affairs, it is a fair question.
Back when this amendment was passed, there really was no concept of being here illegally. Our country's first Naturailzation Act was passed several years after the 14th was ratified. Until then, there were really no laws governing immigration.
I would not object to changing the amendment to require that the parent(s) be in the country legally for a newborn to have citizenship. Legally would include tourist visa's, H1s, TNs, Green Cards, etc...
SoWal InsiderAuthor
sure, sure...you betcha....god bless white america
Beach Fanatic
The question as to whether or not the kids hold potential as 'good' citizens isn't the point. The point is whether or not it is reasonable to expect the 'good' citizens of this country to finance the prenatal care, delivery, pediatric care, diapers, formula and education of a (innocent) child simply because she had Apgars assigned to her on our soil. Given our country's financial state of affairs, it is a fair question.
From a practical standpoint, what should we do? Don't say it's wrong, or financially impossible, what can be done? Give them their two days in the hospital and load 'em on an ICE bus?
Skunky
sure, sure...you betcha....god bless white america
Yeah Bob, it is all about racism.
Beach Fanatic
Yeah Bob, it is all about racism.
Is this being considered because folks have an issue with all the Caucasian Canadians who come here illegally? I'm under the impression the issue folks have is with Latinos. I've never personally heard anyone beotch about illegals who were Asian or Dutch.
Skunky
From a practical standpoint, what should we do? Don't say it's wrong, or financially impossible, what can be done? Give them their two days in the hospital and load 'em on an ICE bus?
I wish I knew the answer. There is not a simple one, obviously. Maybe we could send a bill to the country of mom's origin?
It just does not sit right with me that 40 weeks in utero has the same end result as a potential citizen spending years going through the proper channels. Perhaps newborns in this situation could be placed into a provisional type category, enjoying all the benefits our benevolent country offers to any child until they graduate high school, at which point they could choose between mandatory military service or an all expenses paid one way trip to mom's country of origin. Full citizenship extended upon completion of military service. I know this is probably unconstitutional, racist or whatever but it makes way more sense than what is currently going on.
Skunky
Is this being considered because folks have an issue with all the Caucasian Canadians who come here illegally? I'm under the impression the issue folks have is with Latinos. I've never personally heard anyone beotch about illegals who were Asian or Dutch.
I heard something last week about (and I might be wrong baout the statistic) one in five newborns here being delivered to an illegal immigrant. I don't care where they are from, it just violates common sense that being born here equates to citizenship. Forty weeks and a Social Security number...it isn't right.
Bob has simply determined some time ago that anyone who is concerned about illegal immigrants fears hispanics taking over. It is lazy thinking on Bob el loco's part.
Edited
SoWal Expert
I think we should leave the amendment alone and step up immigration enforcement for all pregnant & fat (just to be sure) women. 
The statistic is that 8% of babies born in the US have AT LEAST one parent who is an illegal immigrant.
And while 85% of those children are Hispanic, 80% of the mothers had been in the country a year or more and 50% had been here 5 years or more.
So the picture being painted of late term pregnant women staggering across the Mexican border to drop a "citizen" is not exactly accurate. The babies being born here are also being conceived here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/12/us/12babies.html
The statistic is that 8% of babies born in the US have AT LEAST one parent who is an illegal immigrant.
And while 85% of those children are Hispanic, 80% of the mothers had been in the country a year or more and 50% had been here 5 years or more.
So the picture being painted of late term pregnant women staggering across the Mexican border to drop a "citizen" is not exactly accurate. The babies being born here are also being conceived here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/12/us/12babies.html
SoWal Expert
Is this being considered because folks have an issue with all the Caucasian Canadians who come here illegally? I'm under the impression the issue folks have is with Latinos. I've never personally heard anyone beotch about illegals who were Asian or Dutch.
Ha ha Maarten and Haatje are going to be deported!
SoWal InsiderAuthor
Yeah Bob, it is all about racism.i agree amigo, pass the salsa please!
SoWal Expert
Anyone watching Jon Stewart right now? Did you see the clips of Louie Gohmert? OMG!!!!
Beach Fanatic
Skunky et al:
Riddle me this-
why now?
We have citizens and elected officials wanting to amend an amendment to the constitution that's been in place for well over a century. Why the call to action today when violence in AZ is on a three year + downward trend, when deportations are on an upward trend, when the national guard has been committed to the borders, etc etc. Why not 4 years ago? Or 8 years ago? Why not 12 years ago or 16 years ago? Why now?
P.S. Same question for mass tea party protests against spending and taxes. Why now instead of during other recent times when spending was out of control and taxes were where they are now or worse?
Riddle me this-
why now?
We have citizens and elected officials wanting to amend an amendment to the constitution that's been in place for well over a century. Why the call to action today when violence in AZ is on a three year + downward trend, when deportations are on an upward trend, when the national guard has been committed to the borders, etc etc. Why not 4 years ago? Or 8 years ago? Why not 12 years ago or 16 years ago? Why now?
P.S. Same question for mass tea party protests against spending and taxes. Why now instead of during other recent times when spending was out of control and taxes were where they are now or worse?
Beach Fanatic
Here's one more for y'all:
I keep hearing that it is wrong or lacking in common sense to give a social security card to someone just for spending 40 weeks in utero.
I presume that that's all each and every person commenting on this thread had to do to achieve his/her US citizenship. We were lucky enough to be born here. Is it right or does it make more common sense that we tell someone else who's just being born that their time served in utero doesn't apply because their parents are Latino or Canadian?
I keep hearing that it is wrong or lacking in common sense to give a social security card to someone just for spending 40 weeks in utero.
I presume that that's all each and every person commenting on this thread had to do to achieve his/her US citizenship. We were lucky enough to be born here. Is it right or does it make more common sense that we tell someone else who's just being born that their time served in utero doesn't apply because their parents are Latino or Canadian?
Beach Fanatic
Since the Iphone doesn't allow you to add to a post here comes the third in my series-
I am from the Midwest along with the mother of my kids and my oldest child. My youngest however was born in FL.
Drinking beers and watching SEC football I have been reminded many times by southerners that I am a Yankee and that the only member of my family who is a Southerner is my daughter.
I have been here longer than she's been alive. I have immersed myself in the culture, learned to cook the food and speak the language. I've assimilated in many ways. But I will always be a Yankee and my daughter- because she was born here gets street cred.
This sentiment makes sense to so many of the same folks who suddenly see no wisdom whatsoever in the 14th amendment.
Again- why now?
I am from the Midwest along with the mother of my kids and my oldest child. My youngest however was born in FL.
Drinking beers and watching SEC football I have been reminded many times by southerners that I am a Yankee and that the only member of my family who is a Southerner is my daughter.
I have been here longer than she's been alive. I have immersed myself in the culture, learned to cook the food and speak the language. I've assimilated in many ways. But I will always be a Yankee and my daughter- because she was born here gets street cred.
This sentiment makes sense to so many of the same folks who suddenly see no wisdom whatsoever in the 14th amendment.
Again- why now?
Beach Fanatic
Since the Iphone doesn't allow you to add to a post here comes the third in my series-
I am from the Midwest along with the mother of my kids and my oldest child. My youngest however was born in FL.
Drinking beers and watching SEC football I have been reminded many times by southerners that I am a Yankee and that the only member of my family who is a Southerner is my daughter.
I have been here longer than she's been alive. I have immersed myself in the culture, learned to cook the food and speak the language. I've assimilated in many ways. But I will always be a Yankee and my daughter- because she was born here gets street cred.
This sentiment makes sense to so many of the same folks who suddenly see no wisdom whatsoever in the 14th amendment.
Again- why now?
I think that most people tend to not pay attention to the details when everything is going good. A lot of folks are using coupons now that wouldn't have bothered with them a couple of years ago.
Couple the deficit with the long, long period of unemployment we are facing along with states and municipalities teetering on the brink of bankruptcy or dissolution and similar things start to happen. People are worrying that the financial future of the nation cannot continue to support things the way that they are.
Why are so many more people worried about oil drilling now than were a couple of years ago. After all, we've been drilling oil in the Gulf for over 50 years. Why worry or change that now?
Beach Fanatic
Thx for answering. So when times are tough we should focus on people who have it tougher (illegals)?
And I don't get the oil comparison. When u ask the same question (why now) the answers include:
the end of a quarter century federal moratorium
state legislators attempting to quietly open waters traditionally off limits to anonymous oil interests
an unprecedented oil spill which led to an economic and environmental disaster
And I don't get the oil comparison. When u ask the same question (why now) the answers include:
the end of a quarter century federal moratorium
state legislators attempting to quietly open waters traditionally off limits to anonymous oil interests
an unprecedented oil spill which led to an economic and environmental disaster
SoWal Insider
Skunky et al:
Riddle me this-
why now?
We have citizens and elected officials wanting to amend an amendment to the constitution that's been in place for well over a century. Why the call to action today when violence in AZ is on a three year + downward trend, when deportations are on an upward trend, when the national guard has been committed to the borders, etc etc. Why not 4 years ago? Or 8 years ago? Why not 12 years ago or 16 years ago? Why now?
P.S. Same question for mass tea party protests against spending and taxes. Why now instead of during other recent times when spending was out of control and taxes were where they are now or worse?
Because we have a very serious immigration problem, and one of the factors that plays into it is citizenship as a birth right.
I honestly don't know what the hub bub is about. We gain little and lose little over this provision. If it can be shown that this provision heavily influences illegal entry into the country, it makes sense to undo it. (Or we could just secure the border?)
As far as amendments go though, this is small potatoes. Lets get term limits, abortion rights, or a line item veto passed first.
Beach Fanatic
Thx for answering. So when times are tough we should focus on people who have it tougher (illegals)?
And I don't get the oil comparison.
Sorry, I didn't mean to make it so subtle.
Your point earlier was we've had this for a long time. Why consider changing it now?
If that's your philosophy, why ever change anything? Why re-examine any practices because, clearly, nothing ever changes.
I guess its lucky that the folks passing the 14th Amendment didn't have that attitude. After all, we'd gotten thru the first 70 or 80 years of the Republic without it. Why change it then?
Beach Fanatic
I hear people say we have a serious immigration problem. What makes it more serious right now than before? I understand it is all of a sudden a priority. But how did this issue jump to the top of the list? Data?
The evidence I have seen does not support the conclusion that people come here to make legal babies nor does it show that those legal babies make their illegal parents citizens and faster.
Do we need amendments to create term limits, a line item veto or to enforce existing abortion laws? (genuine question)
The evidence I have seen does not support the conclusion that people come here to make legal babies nor does it show that those legal babies make their illegal parents citizens and faster.
Do we need amendments to create term limits, a line item veto or to enforce existing abortion laws? (genuine question)
SoWal Insider
The one thing I never hear in this argument is where the 14th amendment came from and it had nothing to do with immigration from my understanding and had everything to do with allowing prior slave's children to be granted citizenship. If this is true, then one can say that the amendment has been abused and at least one parent should have to be a citizen for their child to be granted citizenship. We are the last country to deal with this as illegal immigration has almost bankrupted so many other countries, they have had to do the same and enact a one parent rule.
The Rise and Fall of Jim Crow . Jim Crow Stories . 14th Amendment Ratified | PBS
The Fourteenth Amendment was one of three amendments to the Constitution adopted after the Civil War to guarantee black rights. The Thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery, the Fourteenth granted citizenship to people once enslaved, and the Fifteenth guaranteed black men the right to vote.
The Rise and Fall of Jim Crow . Jim Crow Stories . 14th Amendment Ratified | PBS
The Fourteenth Amendment was one of three amendments to the Constitution adopted after the Civil War to guarantee black rights. The Thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery, the Fourteenth granted citizenship to people once enslaved, and the Fifteenth guaranteed black men the right to vote.
Beach Fanatic
I hear people say we have a serious immigration problem. What makes it more serious right now than before? I understand it is all of a sudden a priority. But how did this issue jump to the top of the list? Data?
The evidence I have seen does not support the conclusion that people come here to make legal babies nor does it show that those legal babies make their illegal parents citizens and faster.
Do we need amendments to create term limits, a line item veto or to enforce existing abortion laws? (genuine question)
I think that if our government had ever tried to secure our borders and enforce our immigration laws then this would be less of an issue.
In general, I'd prefer to minimize the amount of monkeying we do with the Constitution. A lot of the later amendments are train wrecks (case in point 17th and 18th amendments both were disasters.)
That being said, I would support an amendment to limit terms, but not a line item veto. I don't think abortion is significant enough of an issue to deserve the press it gets, much less an amendment.
Beach Fanatic
Hi FutureBeachBum:
My attitude and my premise isn't that we should leave things in place because they were already there. I am for change (hope and change)! Lol
Just not for changing the constitution because the populace is drunk on media perpetuated outrage dressed in red, white and blue.
My attitude and my premise isn't that we should leave things in place because they were already there. I am for change (hope and change)! Lol
Just not for changing the constitution because the populace is drunk on media perpetuated outrage dressed in red, white and blue.
Beach Fanatic
ALeonard,
You are correct about the 14th amendment being intended to address issues born out of slavery (no pun intended). But the historical docs reveal significant attention- discussion and debate surrounding Asian immigrants particularly on the West coast.
So while we didn't have an illegal immigrant issue or perceived problems with Latinos back then, we did consider the children of noncitizen immigrants.
You are correct about the 14th amendment being intended to address issues born out of slavery (no pun intended). But the historical docs reveal significant attention- discussion and debate surrounding Asian immigrants particularly on the West coast.
So while we didn't have an illegal immigrant issue or perceived problems with Latinos back then, we did consider the children of noncitizen immigrants.
SoWal Insider
ALeonard,
You are correct about the 14th amendment being intended to address issues born out of slavery (no pun intended). But the historical docs reveal significant attention- discussion and debate surrounding Asian immigrants particularly on the West coast.
So while we didn't have an illegal immigrant issue or perceived problems with Latinos back then, we did consider the children of noncitizen immigrants.
We also didn't have social services that were paying for said non-citizens. And the framers of that amendment did argue that it did not apply to immigrants from my understanding in letters later written over the issue you bring up.
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