Have the terrorists achieved their aims?

The terrorists absolutely succeeded in their quest to bring down this Country and other major world powers. They used our our own greed, our culture of capitalism and basic human nature and succeeded in affecting the stock, bond and travel markets. In many ways we allowed it and thus complicit in creating the economic and cultural environment we are experiencing now.

I do not think KOA was "denigrating" education but was alluding to the fact that many professors and institutions of higher education are extremely statist/socialist.

and you guys know this how?

I am here to tell you that students of today (and yesterday too, in my experience) are not sitting in class rooms letting some professor force-feed them his/her political ideas.

The students are much smarter (and more street savvy) than that--and certainly in today's world of instant information and access to the Internet, many of the students are more tuned in to the current events than many of the professors are!

And, many are more open minded, less prejudiced, and more accepting of differences. And, many of them are veterans of Gulf Storm, Iraq, and Afghanistan...and have much more information and knowledge about SW Asia and the Middle East than most of us do.

They are also more optimistic about our country and our world than I might have thought at first. They see much of the "fear of others" that, remarkably, still lingers in this country, diminishing as we work toward a more global community...we can learn more from students of today IMO than they are learning from us. Most of the professors I know, know that, and conduct their classes accordingly.

I'm not trying to be condescending. I ask ugabuga the question because ugabuga seems to have a found a way to divide the board with all of the political assertions, hence my question. It is as though ugabuga watches some stretched "news story" then regurgitates it here to stir the pudding. FYI - when you stir the pudding, it has a bad odor.

Maybe like Koa, who was condescending, in spite of "not trying to be," perhaps I have "found a way to divide the board..." without even trying. I can assure the board that was not my intention, and I apologize to any/all I have offended.

Koa, my original post in this thread was not a regurgitation of a stretched news story--it came directly out of my head. I haven't seen/heard/read/watched any news story that put these elements together the way I did. (Although perhaps one exists). I truly believe what I posted. I welcome (& got) opposing points of view. I'm not posting to win an argument or to antagonize you or others. I'm posting my take on political issues to see what others think & to engage in informed discussion. I will try to be respectful of others' points of view even when I disagree with them.

The terrorists absolutely succeeded in their quest to bring down this Country and other major world powers. They used our our own greed, our culture of capitalism and basic human nature and succeeded in affecting the stock, bond and travel markets. In many ways we allowed it and thus complicit in creating the economic and cultural environment we are experiencing now.

And, Mango, I think it is entirely possible that they could use the situation with the Community Center/Mosque to further what you state above. I do believe that our behavior directly affects the way our military are able to conduct events in Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, I am not so sure that some of it is not instigated by terrorists or those who would aid them, just for this purpose. The world is a very small place as far as communication goes; and everything is connected in one way or another.

The terrorists absolutely succeeded in their quest to bring down this Country and other major world powers. They used our our own greed, our culture of capitalism and basic human nature and succeeded in affecting the stock, bond and travel markets. In many ways we allowed it and thus complicit in creating the economic and cultural environment we are experiencing now.

And, Mango, I think it is entirely possible that they could use the situation with the Community Center/Mosque to further what you state above. I do believe that our behavior directly affects the way our military are able to conduct events in Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, I am not so sure that some of it is not instigated by terrorists or those who would aid them, just for this purpose. The world is a very small place as far as communication goes; and everything is connected in one way or another.

Ladies, I couldn't agree more. We absolutely allowed what has happened here since the attacks. We overreacted in many, many ways and I hope we can begin to undo some of our mistakes. With the continued divisiveness, we need someone in office who will work at bridging this and I'll bet the ship will turn rather quickly then. I do not believe President Obama possesses this quality.

... I'm not posting to win an argument or to antagonize you or others. I'm posting my take on political issues to see what others think & to engage in informed discussion. I will try to be respectful of others' points of view even when I disagree with them.

If what you say is true and you are trying to engage discussion, why do most every thread you start have a one-sided slant which is usually accusatory? You are usually quoting some news blog, or closely relating "your thoughts" to stories which happen to be in the news and are one-sided.

Today's news journalists do more setting up the news than they do on reporting what is actually happening without them instigating something.

If what you say is true and you are trying to engage discussion, why do most every thread you start have a one-sided slant which is usually accusatory? You are usually quoting some news blog, or closely relating "your thoughts" to stories which happen to be in the news and are one-sided.

Today's news journalists do more setting up the news than they do on reporting what is actually happening without them instigating something.

Absolutely! I am so glad you pointed this out, KOA. It doesn't seem his threads are designed for discussion, but rather arguing. :idontno:

Sorry ugabuga, but the threads you start are definitely chosen to get reactions and are pretty extreme takes.

Sometimes good discussions result, but they are definitely pro one side and rather inflammatory.

Sorry ugabuga, but the threads you start are definitely chosen to get reactions and are pretty extreme takes.

Sometimes good discussions result, but they are definitely pro one side and rather inflammatory.

Agreed, Scooterbug44! And, we have rules about inflammatory threads / posts, but not once has ugabuga been called out by a moderator here. Actually, I don't know if he's been called out so I really can't make that claim. But, I don't think he has. As Mango once stated, "....this board pretty much moderates itself...." and I guess it is doing that now as well. ;-)

Speaking of moderating the board, I am really wondering where Sarawind, Becky Bee, Yazarctoo, and Edgy Grammy among others are? Just wondering? If you're out there gals and guys, speak up. Us Conservatives left need some support.

Speaking of moderating the board, I am really wondering where Sarawind, Becky Bee, Yazarctoo, and Edgy Grammy among others are? Just wondering? If you're out there gals and guys, speak up. Us Conservatives left need some support.

They represent the silent majority.:clap:

I don't think his post was inflammatory at all. I thought the topics were quite tame :yawn:and perhaps a bit dated, so I chose not to get into it. Been there done that. And another thing, is an argument not a discussion? We post opinions here. How could that not trigger an argument?

They represent the silent majority.:clap:

I thought they were the alter ego of Alpha Crab 😀

They represent the silent majority.:clap:

.
There may just have been a name change here or there...;-)



.

And, Mango, I think it is entirely possible that they could use the situation with the Community Center/Mosque to further what you state above. I do believe that our behavior directly affects the way our military are able to conduct events in Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, I am not so sure that some of it is not instigated by terrorists or those who would aid them, just for this purpose. The world is a very small place as far as communication goes; and everything is connected in one way or another.

Absolutely, GW. I couldn't agree more about the we are all connected philosophy. I just didn't agree with the NYT writer on the other thread that Petraeus' COIN strategy was a failure due to some opposing a mosque near Ground Zero. Military presence in Afghanistan has it's own unique set of problems which trump the media's portrayal of the West; not to mention they blamed FOX news for this in it's entirety. While FOX news is not my preferred media outlet and may be guilty of many other things, what is aired in most foreign Countries is much more censored politically, IMHO. Regardless of any Islamophobia here, a media outlet there can make anything look or seem they want to, especially if we have a presence there that is not welcomed.

Agreed, Scooterbug44! And, we have rules about inflammatory threads / posts, but not once has ugabuga been called out by a moderator here. Actually, I don't know if he's been called out so I really can't make that claim. But, I don't think he has. As Mango once stated, "....this board pretty much moderates itself...." and I guess it is doing that now as well. ;-)

Using ones own language and information is not against the rules, unlike some cut and post drive-by posters that do get called out. This poster has posted questions and not been disrespectful in their questions or answers of others. The same can't be said for everyone in this thread. Like sharks to blood.....

Some do believe that freedoms have been lost for the sake of safety and asking if others feel that way is not decisive, it's a question the poster was able to form on their own, they gave their reasoning as to why they felt that way and asked others opinions. As far as spoiling for a fight, pot meet kettle;-)

I wasn't saying I thought ugabuga needed to be banned or anything, just calling BS that his/her posts weren't chosen and titled to rile people up.

I wasn't saying I thought ugabuga needed to be banned or anything, just calling BS that his/her posts weren't chosen and titled to rile people up.

You didn't say in a round about way the mods weren't doing their job either, for whatever reason that was being implied. Most post have provocative titles to get people to look at them. We all do that no matter what "side" we are supposed to be on now.


If that's now the rule, everything needs to be boring and uninteresting the political section threads, not just if it agrees with one's view point. I see lots of posters post things I find unpalatable, much less being absolutely void of an orginal thought and being only a sound-bite meant to get everyone riled up. I don't do a thing to them either. I try to ignore most everyone when they have their moments, cause we all do. I feel one coming on now.

I think we should just institute a political forum dress code - no entry unless you have on your big girl panties and can have a discussion w/o whining! :roll:

For ACTUAL issues I find the "flag" button or a direct comment works quite well.

Banned where, why and by whom?

This might floor some folks along different points of the political continuum but I watched this interview and despite the fact that I don't agree with our invasion of Iraq (or how things were managed after we got there),,,

I thought GW actually did a good job during most of this interview. Do you believe otherwise, Bob (or anyone else)?

i thought the interviewer was hostile/rude, but bush did his typically poor job of communicating. his defense of preemptive war was the reason for the video. iraq is about a trillion of the 5 trillion we added to the debt after clinton. strangely, no white social security recipients were angry enough to get their lipton bags out of the pantry during this time.

I think prior to 9/11 there was always a pent up Xenophobia in this country among certain people. The attacks caused some people to rationalize and verbalize their fears which are born of ignorance.

I guess that explains a lot of Cynthia McKinney's comments about 9/11 and the government either knowingly allowing it to happen or actually being involved.

I guess that explains a lot of Cynthia McKinney's comments about 9/11 and the government either knowingly allowing it to happen or actually being involved.

I fail to see how that falls in the category of xenophobia. Hysteria maybe. Do you have a point and is your comment relevant?

Using ones own language and information is not against the rules, unlike some cut and post drive-by posters that do get called out. This poster has posted questions and not been disrespectful in their questions or answers of others. The same can't be said for everyone in this thread. Like sharks to blood.....

Some do believe that freedoms have been lost for the sake of safety and asking if others feel that way is not decisive, it's a question the poster was able to form on their own, they gave their reasoning as to why they felt that way and asked others opinions. As far as spoiling for a fight, pot meet kettle;-)

I agree. I read back over some of Ugabuga's posts to see if I could find one that justified the comments and I could not.
Frankly, I think many people in this country and even on this board agree that those four statements in the latest post are important to think about seriously.
IMO Ugabuga has added a thoughtful element to the political board -- and it's obvious that he/she has had much experience in political matters, so the comments take on greater meaning
Maybe I am missing something, but as you said, posting your ideas and asking for others' opinions seems appropriate to me. Just because some people don't agree, so what? I don't agree with about 75% of what gets posted here, but I do learn from it and for the most part I find it interesting.
I just wish people would give everyone the courtesy of at least answering the posts--and then, go off on another tangent if one must.

I agree. I read back over some of Ugabuga's posts to see if I could find one that justified the comments and I could not.
Frankly, I think many people in this country and even on this board agree that those four statements in the latest post are important to think about seriously.
IMO Ugabuga has added a thoughtful element to the political board -- and it's obvious that he/she has had much experience in political matters, so the comments take on greater meaning
Maybe I am missing something, but as you said, posting your ideas and asking for others' opinions seems appropriate to me. Just because some people don't agree, so what? I don't agree with about 75% of what gets posted here, but I do learn from it and for the most part I find it interesting.
I just wish people would give everyone the courtesy of at least answering the posts--and then, go off on another tangent if one must.

I for one participate on this board because there is a divergence of opinion and brisk discussion of the issues. If you do not expose yourself to other ideas your own beliefs do not grow. Posts that I do not agree with often cause me to research and expound on my own views while I just acknowledge those I agree with.
The posters I become most exasperated with are those who do not think it is appropriate to question or who blindly accept what politicians and the government tell them. As Ronald Reagan said, " Trust but verify."

Using ones own language and information is not against the rules, unlike some cut and post drive-by posters that do get called out. This poster has posted questions and not been disrespectful in their questions or answers of others. The same can't be said for everyone in this thread. Like sharks to blood.....

Some do believe that freedoms have been lost for the sake of safety and asking if others feel that way is not decisive, it's a question the poster was able to form on their own, they gave their reasoning as to why they felt that way and asked others opinions. As far as spoiling for a fight, pot meet kettle;-)

Yep, which is why I usually ignore some threads and have only recently said anything. It's his style and it's evidently acceptable; thanks for letting us know this generality of 'pushing the envelope.' Hopefully, he'll temper the verbiage and gain better discussions.....although, fights do generally break out regarding some sensitive topics......some people like pushing those buttons. ;-)